Told by christian friend that my lifelong depression is because I don’t “know Jesus”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

On the chance there is any doubt what "the question" is:

Imagine we are walking and in a store window we see a giant jar full of gumballs. I tell you that there is an even number of gumballs in the jar, and say, "you agree, right?".

What do you reply?[b]

I already told you that is not a proper analogy. "The teapot analogy fails with regard to religion because, with the teapot, the believer and non-believer are [b]simply disagreeing about one item in the universe and may hold in common all other beliefs about the universe, which is not true of an atheist and a theist."

What is so hard for you to understand? This is not about us arguing about some random gumballs that have no bearing at all on the rest of our lives. You are making up a meaningless argument over a meaningless subject that is self contained. I know that is how YOU view religion and that's why it is a "hobby" for you, detached from the rest of life. But that is not how reality is. What we are really arguing about is the basic premise of life and everything you and I do every single day assumes an answer to that question. If every action you took depended on your belief of whether the number of gumballs is an even of odd number, then WITHOUT even raising the issue, we have both assumed an answer and are acting accordingly on a daily basis. We both have equal burdens of proof, if not to each other, then to ourselves, for justifying the way we live our lives.

You didn't answer the question. Despite multiple requests. Wonder why?

Simply answer the question and I will reply to all your other points.

Imagine we are walking and in a store window we see a giant jar full of gumballs. I tell you that there is an even number of gumballs in the jar, and say, "you agree, right?".

What do you reply?

You have my permission to make up whatever response you want, because the question is irrelevant so regardless of how you imagine i would answer, you are living in your own fantasy.

Again you prove to be a dishonest interlocutor. I am only willing to engage with honest interlocutors. I can only presume it is because you cannot support your position since you won’t exchange. If you want to change my mind on that you know how.

NP. Looks like you’re the dishonest interlocutor. She answered quite cogently. You didn’t like her answer so you come back with insults.

Absolutely false. Question not answered.

Here’s an idea: instead of trolling the Religion forum, get a life.

That is the poster’s life. They think about religion 24/7/365. Sad.

So it’s cool when you post here and sad when someone who disagrees with you does?

Yeah that makes perfect sense. No irony there at all.

Why do you think about God everyday? And post about God, Christians, and Christian religious beliefs every day?

I would like to know the answer to this.

As promised previously, I will answer every question you have if you just answer the one I have asked again and again:

Imagine we are walking and in a store window we see a giant jar full of gumballs. I tell you that there is an even number of gumballs in the jar, and say, "you agree, right?".

What do you reply?

This would never happen as I don’t know you, and we would never be walking together. We would never see a store together, and the giant jar of gumballs exists only in your imagination. Where is this store, what is the name of the store? Who owns it? Where is it located? Why are we walking together? Are we friends? Why does a store owner have a giant jar of gumballs in their store window?

Do you have intrusive, obsessive thoughts about God, Christians, the beliefs of Christians? Is your purpose today asking me questions about imaginary jars of gumballs that exist in imaginary stores that we will see on imaginary walks?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

On the chance there is any doubt what "the question" is:

Imagine we are walking and in a store window we see a giant jar full of gumballs. I tell you that there is an even number of gumballs in the jar, and say, "you agree, right?".

What do you reply?[b]

I already told you that is not a proper analogy. "The teapot analogy fails with regard to religion because, with the teapot, the believer and non-believer are [b]simply disagreeing about one item in the universe and may hold in common all other beliefs about the universe, which is not true of an atheist and a theist."

What is so hard for you to understand? This is not about us arguing about some random gumballs that have no bearing at all on the rest of our lives. You are making up a meaningless argument over a meaningless subject that is self contained. I know that is how YOU view religion and that's why it is a "hobby" for you, detached from the rest of life. But that is not how reality is. What we are really arguing about is the basic premise of life and everything you and I do every single day assumes an answer to that question. If every action you took depended on your belief of whether the number of gumballs is an even of odd number, then WITHOUT even raising the issue, we have both assumed an answer and are acting accordingly on a daily basis. We both have equal burdens of proof, if not to each other, then to ourselves, for justifying the way we live our lives.

You didn't answer the question. Despite multiple requests. Wonder why?

Simply answer the question and I will reply to all your other points.

Imagine we are walking and in a store window we see a giant jar full of gumballs. I tell you that there is an even number of gumballs in the jar, and say, "you agree, right?".

What do you reply?

You have my permission to make up whatever response you want, because the question is irrelevant so regardless of how you imagine i would answer, you are living in your own fantasy.

Again you prove to be a dishonest interlocutor. I am only willing to engage with honest interlocutors. I can only presume it is because you cannot support your position since you won’t exchange. If you want to change my mind on that you know how.

NP. Looks like you’re the dishonest interlocutor. She answered quite cogently. You didn’t like her answer so you come back with insults.

Absolutely false. Question not answered.

Here’s an idea: instead of trolling the Religion forum, get a life.

That is the poster’s life. They think about religion 24/7/365. Sad.

So it’s cool when you post here and sad when someone who disagrees with you does?

Yeah that makes perfect sense. No irony there at all.

Why do you think about God everyday? And post about God, Christians, and Christian religious beliefs every day?

I would like to know the answer to this.

As promised previously, I will answer every question you have if you just answer the one I have asked again and again:

Imagine we are walking and in a store window we see a giant jar full of gumballs. I tell you that there is an even number of gumballs in the jar, and say, "you agree, right?".

What do you reply?

This would never happen as I don’t know you, and we would never be walking together. We would never see a store together, and the giant jar of gumballs exists only in your imagination. Where is this store, what is the name of the store? Who owns it? Where is it located? Why are we walking together? Are we friends? Why does a store owner have a giant jar of gumballs in their store window?

Do you have intrusive, obsessive thoughts about God, Christians, the beliefs of Christians? Is your purpose today asking me questions about imaginary jars of gumballs that exist in imaginary stores that we will see on imaginary walks?

This is such an obvious attempt to evade giving a simple answer. I can’t believe you even spent the time doing it. This is not an answer to the very simple question. What is your response?

[Anonymous]

Gumball person is one of those who thinks they are clever, but completely failed to understand the repose to the teapot analogy and that it was a valid answer to the gumball question. No sense continuing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Gumball person is one of those who thinks they are clever, but completely failed to understand the repose to the teapot analogy and that it was a valid answer to the gumball question. No sense continuing.

It's not a valid answer in any regard. It's not even part of the same point.

Gosh I wonder why you won't answer?

Could it be that it's because you see the point it makes which is counter to your argument? I won't put words in your mouth so I am not making that claim, but I can't help but wonder. Why would you type so many other words, rather than a simple response?

Of course, you could clear it all up with a simple, one sentence answer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The title pretty much says it all. In many ways, over the past few years, she has said that my depression I’ve suffered with off and on since childhood, is because I haven’t “accepted Jesus into my heart”.

She has said things like “it’s a sin to be depressed with everything god has done for me”
“I will know happiness when I’m saved”
“Psychological counseling is sinful because the Bible alone should be enough”

And other statements like that.

Over the past few months I’ve seen her less and less but we were just texting yesterday and she was saying these things again. I told her I didn’t want to talk about the subject with her anymore and ended the conversation but it has upset me again that other than this topic I am friends with her but i find this topic too hurtful and kind of unbelievable to be honest. In many ways, her pushing this issue has led me to even question my own faith .

This is all in spite of the fact that up until the past year, I’ve been a lifelong christian…just not of the “born again” type .

You know what, I call BS. Anyone that would say this is a mentally unstable narcissist or possibly on the spectrum and that could happen with any religion. I’m sick and tired of you painting Christians as people who would consistently do this. BS all around and you know what it may not even have happened. Hm.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Sorry OP - this is extremely unhelpful and offensive.

I am a mainstream Christian and would be horrified if someone gave me or a loved one this advice,

She is not willing to sit with you in your pain and be a loving presence. And she is woefully ignorant of medical realities related to depression.

Nonetheless, I would say a few things to her.

1. Actually you have it backwards; I am not able to cultivate my faith and spiritual life until my medical team and I have figured out how best to manage my depression with the right medicine, exercise and cognitive talk therapy.

2. Would you tel someone with cancer or a degenerative musculoskeletal disease that their symptoms are caused by lack of faith? You do realize that depression is a complex but legitimate medical condition right?

3. Yiur insensitive commentary actually puts people off Jesus and religion in general. When you talk like this and don’t validate my suffering and experiences, I am not feeling the love of Jesus but the misguided judgment of a misinformed Christian.



However she may not have ears to hear but it would be an act of love on your part to help her to understand what a dufus she is being and how her commentary is backfiring from its intention. I doubt she is aware of how overbearing and insensitive she is being.

Best wishes managing your depression - it really does take a multi-pronged approach. Exercise can be just as affective as medicine if you find an aerobic exercise you enjoy. Dialectical Behavior Therapy (cognitive behavior therapy mixed with Eastern type mindfulness and present moment anchoring) helps many people also. May you find your inner joie du vivre once more.

OP here. Thank you. Regarding your #2...she actually has type 1 diabetes and never considers not using medicine and doctors to control that and deal with it. For some reason this sect of her religion and maybe all Christians (I'm not sure) only see MENTAL or PSYCHOLOGICAL issues in this light. It is somehow a failing, a lack of faith, a hole in my heart that I need to fill with Jesus, and they very specifically do NOT believe in psychotherapy and only believe in praying an emotional or mental problem away. I find it disgusting and disturbing honestly.

Thank you for your suggestions about DBT and exercise. I'm going to have to do something because it's been over 50 years of suffering and I cannot survive this much longer. The emotional distress and toll it's taken on my life is just too much.

I am catholic and have a strong Christian network including my husband and hundreds of people we know. There is not ONE of them who would do this!!! Stop painting Christians with a broad brush of slander and nastiness. Your aspersions cast night on your own fear and terror that we are working on a deeply rewarding relationship ship with God and make you doubt your own situation. My relationship with God and Jesus within the trinity are between myself and them, I would never impose it on my friends from any faith or use it to peer through a sick lens to analyze their psychological co dictions. This is obscene.

[Anonymous]

Hopefully the above 2 posts are real and despite their topical and grammatical similarities not an attempt to gish gallop this thread past the simple question the PP won't answer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Gumball person is one of those who thinks they are clever, but completely failed to understand the repose to the teapot analogy and that it was a valid answer to the gumball question. No sense continuing.

Plus pp is feeling threatened, so uses evasive and insulting techniques in hopes of avoiding answering the question and ending the conversation

[Anonymous]

Gumball poster and gish gallop poster are possibly the same troll.

Jeff strongly suspects the grandma posting about baptizing her grandchild in secrecy is a troll, too.

Gumball poster will spend another day obsessing about God.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

On the chance there is any doubt what "the question" is:

Imagine we are walking and in a store window we see a giant jar full of gumballs. I tell you that there is an even number of gumballs in the jar, and say, "you agree, right?".

What do you reply?[b]

I already told you that is not a proper analogy. "The teapot analogy fails with regard to religion because, with the teapot, the believer and non-believer are [b]simply disagreeing about one item in the universe and may hold in common all other beliefs about the universe, which is not true of an atheist and a theist."

What is so hard for you to understand? This is not about us arguing about some random gumballs that have no bearing at all on the rest of our lives. You are making up a meaningless argument over a meaningless subject that is self contained. I know that is how YOU view religion and that's why it is a "hobby" for you, detached from the rest of life. But that is not how reality is. What we are really arguing about is the basic premise of life and everything you and I do every single day assumes an answer to that question. If every action you took depended on your belief of whether the number of gumballs is an even of odd number, then WITHOUT even raising the issue, we have both assumed an answer and are acting accordingly on a daily basis. We both have equal burdens of proof, if not to each other, then to ourselves, for justifying the way we live our lives.

You didn't answer the question. Despite multiple requests. Wonder why?

Simply answer the question and I will reply to all your other points.

Imagine we are walking and in a store window we see a giant jar full of gumballs. I tell you that there is an even number of gumballs in the jar, and say, "you agree, right?".

What do you reply?

You have my permission to make up whatever response you want, because the question is irrelevant so regardless of how you imagine i would answer, you are living in your own fantasy.

Again you prove to be a dishonest interlocutor. I am only willing to engage with honest interlocutors. I can only presume it is because you cannot support your position since you won’t exchange. If you want to change my mind on that you know how.

NP. Looks like you’re the dishonest interlocutor. She answered quite cogently. You didn’t like her answer so you come back with insults.

Absolutely false. Question not answered.

Here’s an idea: instead of trolling the Religion forum, get a life.

That is the poster’s life. They think about religion 24/7/365. Sad.

So it’s cool when you post here and sad when someone who disagrees with you does?

Yeah that makes perfect sense. No irony there at all.

Why do you think about God everyday? And post about God, Christians, and Christian religious beliefs every day?

Why will people who don’t believe in God post here daily? Should you not be out doing something with your life?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Sorry OP - this is extremely unhelpful and offensive.

I am a mainstream Christian and would be horrified if someone gave me or a loved one this advice,

She is not willing to sit with you in your pain and be a loving presence. And she is woefully ignorant of medical realities related to depression.

Nonetheless, I would say a few things to her.

1. Actually you have it backwards; I am not able to cultivate my faith and spiritual life until my medical team and I have figured out how best to manage my depression with the right medicine, exercise and cognitive talk therapy.

2. Would you tel someone with cancer or a degenerative musculoskeletal disease that their symptoms are caused by lack of faith? You do realize that depression is a complex but legitimate medical condition right?

3. Yiur insensitive commentary actually puts people off Jesus and religion in general. When you talk like this and don’t validate my suffering and experiences, I am not feeling the love of Jesus but the misguided judgment of a misinformed Christian.



However she may not have ears to hear but it would be an act of love on your part to help her to understand what a dufus she is being and how her commentary is backfiring from its intention. I doubt she is aware of how overbearing and insensitive she is being.

Best wishes managing your depression - it really does take a multi-pronged approach. Exercise can be just as affective as medicine if you find an aerobic exercise you enjoy. Dialectical Behavior Therapy (cognitive behavior therapy mixed with Eastern type mindfulness and present moment anchoring) helps many people also. May you find your inner joie du vivre once more.

OP here. Thank you. Regarding your #2...she actually has type 1 diabetes and never considers not using medicine and doctors to control that and deal with it. For some reason this sect of her religion and maybe all Christians (I'm not sure) only see MENTAL or PSYCHOLOGICAL issues in this light. It is somehow a failing, a lack of faith, a hole in my heart that I need to fill with Jesus, and they very specifically do NOT believe in psychotherapy and only believe in praying an emotional or mental problem away. I find it disgusting and disturbing honestly.

Thank you for your suggestions about DBT and exercise. I'm going to have to do something because it's been over 50 years of suffering and I cannot survive this much longer. The emotional distress and toll it's taken on my life is just too much.

I am catholic and have a strong Christian network including my husband and hundreds of people we know. There is not ONE of them who would do this!!! Stop painting Christians with a broad brush of slander and nastiness. Your aspersions cast night on your own fear and terror that we are working on a deeply rewarding relationship ship with God and make you doubt your own situation. My relationship with God and Jesus within the trinity are between myself and them, I would never impose it on my friends from any faith or use it to peer through a sick lens to analyze their psychological co dictions. This is obscene.

I’m a DP and I completely agree although I’m not Catholic. OP is probably a troll and there’s a sick (read: hate-filled) poster here gishgalloping about questions that were answered.

Of course the atheist will claim it isn’t so, but ask the moderator. He’ll probably stop to remove their hate-filled posts while he’s here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

On the chance there is any doubt what "the question" is:

Imagine we are walking and in a store window we see a giant jar full of gumballs. I tell you that there is an even number of gumballs in the jar, and say, "you agree, right?".

What do you reply?[b]

I already told you that is not a proper analogy. "The teapot analogy fails with regard to religion because, with the teapot, the believer and non-believer are [b]simply disagreeing about one item in the universe and may hold in common all other beliefs about the universe, which is not true of an atheist and a theist."

What is so hard for you to understand? This is not about us arguing about some random gumballs that have no bearing at all on the rest of our lives. You are making up a meaningless argument over a meaningless subject that is self contained. I know that is how YOU view religion and that's why it is a "hobby" for you, detached from the rest of life. But that is not how reality is. What we are really arguing about is the basic premise of life and everything you and I do every single day assumes an answer to that question. If every action you took depended on your belief of whether the number of gumballs is an even of odd number, then WITHOUT even raising the issue, we have both assumed an answer and are acting accordingly on a daily basis. We both have equal burdens of proof, if not to each other, then to ourselves, for justifying the way we live our lives.

You didn't answer the question. Despite multiple requests. Wonder why?

Simply answer the question and I will reply to all your other points.

Imagine we are walking and in a store window we see a giant jar full of gumballs. I tell you that there is an even number of gumballs in the jar, and say, "you agree, right?".

What do you reply?

You have my permission to make up whatever response you want, because the question is irrelevant so regardless of how you imagine i would answer, you are living in your own fantasy.

Again you prove to be a dishonest interlocutor. I am only willing to engage with honest interlocutors. I can only presume it is because you cannot support your position since you won’t exchange. If you want to change my mind on that you know how.

NP. Looks like you’re the dishonest interlocutor. She answered quite cogently. You didn’t like her answer so you come back with insults.

Absolutely false. Question not answered.

Here’s an idea: instead of trolling the Religion forum, get a life.

That is the poster’s life. They think about religion 24/7/365. Sad.

So it’s cool when you post here and sad when someone who disagrees with you does?

Yeah that makes perfect sense. No irony there at all.

Why do you think about God everyday? And post about God, Christians, and Christian religious beliefs every day?

Why will people who don’t believe in God post here daily? Should you not be out doing something with your life?

I assume you are doing something with your life besides posting here.

Also, pointing out that this is the religion forum, not the "for religious believers only" forum. It's for discussion about religion, and is not limited to people who believe a certain way.

[Anonymous]

No questions answered. Not even the simplest one. Yet tons of posts complaining.

It’s all pretty clear.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Sorry OP - this is extremely unhelpful and offensive.

I am a mainstream Christian and would be horrified if someone gave me or a loved one this advice,

She is not willing to sit with you in your pain and be a loving presence. And she is woefully ignorant of medical realities related to depression.

Nonetheless, I would say a few things to her.

1. Actually you have it backwards; I am not able to cultivate my faith and spiritual life until my medical team and I have figured out how best to manage my depression with the right medicine, exercise and cognitive talk therapy.

2. Would you tel someone with cancer or a degenerative musculoskeletal disease that their symptoms are caused by lack of faith? You do realize that depression is a complex but legitimate medical condition right?

3. Yiur insensitive commentary actually puts people off Jesus and religion in general. When you talk like this and don’t validate my suffering and experiences, I am not feeling the love of Jesus but the misguided judgment of a misinformed Christian.



However she may not have ears to hear but it would be an act of love on your part to help her to understand what a dufus she is being and how her commentary is backfiring from its intention. I doubt she is aware of how overbearing and insensitive she is being.

Best wishes managing your depression - it really does take a multi-pronged approach. Exercise can be just as affective as medicine if you find an aerobic exercise you enjoy. Dialectical Behavior Therapy (cognitive behavior therapy mixed with Eastern type mindfulness and present moment anchoring) helps many people also. May you find your inner joie du vivre once more.

OP here. Thank you. Regarding your #2...she actually has type 1 diabetes and never considers not using medicine and doctors to control that and deal with it. For some reason this sect of her religion and maybe all Christians (I'm not sure) only see MENTAL or PSYCHOLOGICAL issues in this light. It is somehow a failing, a lack of faith, a hole in my heart that I need to fill with Jesus, and they very specifically do NOT believe in psychotherapy and only believe in praying an emotional or mental problem away. I find it disgusting and disturbing honestly.

Thank you for your suggestions about DBT and exercise. I'm going to have to do something because it's been over 50 years of suffering and I cannot survive this much longer. The emotional distress and toll it's taken on my life is just too much.

I am catholic and have a strong Christian network including my husband and hundreds of people we know. There is not ONE of them who would do this!!! Stop painting Christians with a broad brush of slander and nastiness. Your aspersions cast night on your own fear and terror that we are working on a deeply rewarding relationship ship with God and make you doubt your own situation. My relationship with God and Jesus within the trinity are between myself and them, I would never impose it on my friends from any faith or use it to peer through a sick lens to analyze their psychological co dictions. This is obscene.

+1 agree. So many posts here are obvious trolls, and each troll post is customized to show how evil religious people are. But just Christians, not any other religious group.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Sorry OP - this is extremely unhelpful and offensive.

I am a mainstream Christian and would be horrified if someone gave me or a loved one this advice,

She is not willing to sit with you in your pain and be a loving presence. And she is woefully ignorant of medical realities related to depression.

Nonetheless, I would say a few things to her.

1. Actually you have it backwards; I am not able to cultivate my faith and spiritual life until my medical team and I have figured out how best to manage my depression with the right medicine, exercise and cognitive talk therapy.

2. Would you tel someone with cancer or a degenerative musculoskeletal disease that their symptoms are caused by lack of faith? You do realize that depression is a complex but legitimate medical condition right?

3. Yiur insensitive commentary actually puts people off Jesus and religion in general. When you talk like this and don’t validate my suffering and experiences, I am not feeling the love of Jesus but the misguided judgment of a misinformed Christian.



However she may not have ears to hear but it would be an act of love on your part to help her to understand what a dufus she is being and how her commentary is backfiring from its intention. I doubt she is aware of how overbearing and insensitive she is being.

Best wishes managing your depression - it really does take a multi-pronged approach. Exercise can be just as affective as medicine if you find an aerobic exercise you enjoy. Dialectical Behavior Therapy (cognitive behavior therapy mixed with Eastern type mindfulness and present moment anchoring) helps many people also. May you find your inner joie du vivre once more.

OP here. Thank you. Regarding your #2...she actually has type 1 diabetes and never considers not using medicine and doctors to control that and deal with it. For some reason this sect of her religion and maybe all Christians (I'm not sure) only see MENTAL or PSYCHOLOGICAL issues in this light. It is somehow a failing, a lack of faith, a hole in my heart that I need to fill with Jesus, and they very specifically do NOT believe in psychotherapy and only believe in praying an emotional or mental problem away. I find it disgusting and disturbing honestly.

Thank you for your suggestions about DBT and exercise. I'm going to have to do something because it's been over 50 years of suffering and I cannot survive this much longer. The emotional distress and toll it's taken on my life is just too much.

I am catholic and have a strong Christian network including my husband and hundreds of people we know. There is not ONE of them who would do this!!! Stop painting Christians with a broad brush of slander and nastiness. Your aspersions cast night on your own fear and terror that we are working on a deeply rewarding relationship ship with God and make you doubt your own situation. My relationship with God and Jesus within the trinity are between myself and them, I would never impose it on my friends from any faith or use it to peer through a sick lens to analyze their psychological co dictions. This is obscene.

+1 agree. So many posts here are obvious trolls, and each troll post is customized to show how evil religious people are. But just Christians, not any other religious group.

+2