Travel Soccer teams around NOVA let's discuss

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think it's all so random. Maybe not totally random, as some parents might really, really do their homework but it seems to me...that every club has good and bad trainer/coaches. All of the clubs discussed above have produced some great teams. However, why don't they ALWAYS produce great teams? It's the kids that come into the program at that time. It's the quality of that particular trainer/coach. It's the commitment of the parents of those kids. Not every season do you get a group of talented kids who work hard outside of practice, who get a great trainer/coach, and with committed parents. At any given year, that can can happen at any of these clubs regardless of the league. It could even happen at the smallest of clubs. And I think that's what this message board is all about...trying to find THAT team each year or the closest thing to it. My kid is younger and plays in the NCSL and the teams that he's been on have beaten the crap out of just about all of the teams mentioned above. Does that mean they are bad clubs? No, it just means that they don't have the group of kids, etc that we do at this time. So I think all this league and club talk is BS. The quest is to find a great trainer with a great bunch of teammates.

This may be the best post in the entire thread.

In soccer at the developmental ages the only thing that matters is whether the learning environment is optimal for your kid, and there is simply no reliable way to know that other than watching practices - and at least 1 game - of the specific team you are considering, so you can evaluate the training and coaching for yourself. Trying to find that environment with a club-centric approach is a fool's errand in this environment.

Clubs are like schools - kind of. You could send your kid to the "best" school in the world, but if the teacher sucks, and/or the other kids in his/her class are either too far behind or too far ahead academically, your kid's not going to learn too much. On the other hand, your kid could go to a "crap" school and end up with a teacher like the guy from "Lean on Me."

I thought the suggestion of finding out where the current top U15-U18 players were when they were U9-U12 was at least on the right track, because just looking at which clubs end up with those players at the older age groups (and hence has successful teams, wins state cups, etc... ) tells you nothing if those players we developed elsewhere. The problem is you are looking back in time. Just because a club did a good job developing players 5-10 years ago doesn't mean they are still doing it today. In fact, there's a pretty good chance that whatever coach was involved in that development back then is probably somewhere else by now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it's all so random. Maybe not totally random, as some parents might really, really do their homework but it seems to me...that every club has good and bad trainer/coaches. All of the clubs discussed above have produced some great teams. However, why don't they ALWAYS produce great teams? It's the kids that come into the program at that time. It's the quality of that particular trainer/coach. It's the commitment of the parents of those kids. Not every season do you get a group of talented kids who work hard outside of practice, who get a great trainer/coach, and with committed parents. At any given year, that can can happen at any of these clubs regardless of the league. It could even happen at the smallest of clubs. And I think that's what this message board is all about...trying to find THAT team each year or the closest thing to it. My kid is younger and plays in the NCSL and the teams that he's been on have beaten the crap out of just about all of the teams mentioned above. Does that mean they are bad clubs? No, it just means that they don't have the group of kids, etc that we do at this time. So I think all this league and club talk is BS. The quest is to find a great trainer with a great bunch of teammates.

This may be the best post in the entire thread.

In soccer at the developmental ages the only thing that matters is whether the learning environment is optimal for your kid, and there is simply no reliable way to know that other than watching practices - and at least 1 game - of the specific team you are considering, so you can evaluate the training and coaching for yourself. Trying to find that environment with a club-centric approach is a fool's errand in this environment.

Clubs are like schools - kind of. You could send your kid to the "best" school in the world, but if the teacher sucks, and/or the other kids in his/her class are either too far behind or too far ahead academically, your kid's not going to learn too much. On the other hand, your kid could go to a "crap" school and end up with a teacher like the guy from "Lean on Me."

I thought the suggestion of finding out where the current top U15-U18 players were when they were U9-U12 was at least on the right track, because just looking at which clubs end up with those players at the older age groups (and hence has successful teams, wins state cups, etc... ) tells you nothing if those players we developed elsewhere. The problem is you are looking back in time. Just because a club did a good job developing players 5-10 years ago doesn't mean they are still doing it today. In fact, there's a pretty good chance that whatever coach was involved in that development back then is probably somewhere else by now.

Right. There are simply too many variables.

The "club-centric" model has a lot of advantages. In theory, the good coaches could drown out the bad. But no matter what you do, no club is going to be the best in the region -- or even the best in its county -- in every single age group.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I just find it curious that CCL fans are now congratulating CCL for addressing a problem (too much travel) that they insist we should never have discussed.

I really don't care. I just find it fascinating human behavior.

And I *am* curious to see how they'll implement it and the knock-on effects it'll have in Northern Virginia. Will NCSL barely field any teams through U12? Will ODSL be reduced to Cougars vs. Dynamite? Will EDP's efforts to limit travel by recruiting more DMV clubs be doomed?

There's a lot to discuss here. If you don't like it, well, there are millions of other message board threads ...

Yeah I wonder if the very large clubs will move all their teams into this new league ? That would many others move as well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just find it curious that CCL fans are now congratulating CCL for addressing a problem (too much travel) that they insist we should never have discussed.

I really don't care. I just find it fascinating human behavior.

And I *am* curious to see how they'll implement it and the knock-on effects it'll have in Northern Virginia. Will NCSL barely field any teams through U12? Will ODSL be reduced to Cougars vs. Dynamite? Will EDP's efforts to limit travel by recruiting more DMV clubs be doomed?

There's a lot to discuss here. If you don't like it, well, there are millions of other message board threads ...

Yeah I wonder if the very large clubs will move all their teams into this new league ? That would many others move as well.

How would that work? CCL 3, CCL 4, CCL 5, etc.? (I don't mean to sound like I'm mocking you -- I think you may be right, but I'm not sure how it would work.)

And if they bring in -- let's say Herndon and Reston -- they'll have to somehow account for the fact that some Herndon A teams may be CCL 1 level, some may be CCL 2, some may be CCL 3, etc.

Loudoun, Arlington and BRYC have the coaching depth (and the recruiting acumen) to have competitive CCL 1-level teams at each age group. Who else can say that?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I thought the suggestion of finding out where the current top U15-U18 players were when they were U9-U12 was at least on the right track, because just looking at which clubs end up with those players at the older age groups (and hence has successful teams, wins state cups, etc... ) tells you nothing if those players we developed elsewhere. The problem is you are looking back in time. Just because a club did a good job developing players 5-10 years ago doesn't mean they are still doing it today. In fact, there's a pretty good chance that whatever coach was involved in that development back then is probably somewhere else by now.

Those aren't the biggest problems with this approach. My daughter moved to one of the most accomplished teams in the area after her U12 season. So by your theory, her old club should get credit for her development. But while it may deserve some credit, a lot, if not most, of the credit goes to the outside training she did with private companies. Not to mention, she has learned a lot more in the few years at her new club than she did in the years at her old club. It's simplistic to suggest that you can just look at where a kid played their first years of travel and know where they developed their skills.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just find it curious that CCL fans are now congratulating CCL for addressing a problem (too much travel) that they insist we should never have discussed.

I really don't care. I just find it fascinating human behavior.

And I *am* curious to see how they'll implement it and the knock-on effects it'll have in Northern Virginia. Will NCSL barely field any teams through U12? Will ODSL be reduced to Cougars vs. Dynamite? Will EDP's efforts to limit travel by recruiting more DMV clubs be doomed?

There's a lot to discuss here. If you don't like it, well, there are millions of other message board threads ...

Yeah I wonder if the very large clubs will move all their teams into this new league ? That would many others move as well.

How would that work? CCL 3, CCL 4, CCL 5, etc.? (I don't mean to sound like I'm mocking you -- I think you may be right, but I'm not sure how it would work.)

And if they bring in -- let's say Herndon and Reston -- they'll have to somehow account for the fact that some Herndon A teams may be CCL 1 level, some may be CCL 2, some may be CCL 3, etc.

Loudoun, Arlington and BRYC have the coaching depth (and the recruiting acumen) to have competitive CCL 1-level teams at each age group. Who else can say that?

I'm assuming this replaces CCL-1 or CCL-2, U12 and below ? If your going to structure a new "local" travel league from scratch, wouldn't you do it in a way that a club with a lot of teams could include all their teams ?

[Anonymous]

or just their top 2 teams (as is currently the case -- 3rd and below are in NCSL)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:or just their top 2 teams (as is currently the case -- 3rd and below are in NCSL)

but for non-ccl clubs their top 2 teams would be leaving ccl to now join ccl next gen

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it's all so random. Maybe not totally random, as some parents might really, really do their homework but it seems to me...that every club has good and bad trainer/coaches. All of the clubs discussed above have produced some great teams. However, why don't they ALWAYS produce great teams? It's the kids that come into the program at that time. It's the quality of that particular trainer/coach. It's the commitment of the parents of those kids. Not every season do you get a group of talented kids who work hard outside of practice, who get a great trainer/coach, and with committed parents. At any given year, that can can happen at any of these clubs regardless of the league. It could even happen at the smallest of clubs. And I think that's what this message board is all about...trying to find THAT team each year or the closest thing to it. My kid is younger and plays in the NCSL and the teams that he's been on have beaten the crap out of just about all of the teams mentioned above. Does that mean they are bad clubs? No, it just means that they don't have the group of kids, etc that we do at this time. So I think all this league and club talk is BS. The quest is to find a great trainer with a great bunch of teammates.

This may be the best post in the entire thread.

In soccer at the developmental ages the only thing that matters is whether the learning environment is optimal for your kid, and there is simply no reliable way to know that other than watching practices - and at least 1 game - of the specific team you are considering, so you can evaluate the training and coaching for yourself. Trying to find that environment with a club-centric approach is a fool's errand in this environment.

Clubs are like schools - kind of. You could send your kid to the "best" school in the world, but if the teacher sucks, and/or the other kids in his/her class are either too far behind or too far ahead academically, your kid's not going to learn too much. On the other hand, your kid could go to a "crap" school and end up with a teacher like the guy from "Lean on Me."

I thought the suggestion of finding out where the current top U15-U18 players were when they were U9-U12 was at least on the right track, because just looking at which clubs end up with those players at the older age groups (and hence has successful teams, wins state cups, etc... ) tells you nothing if those players we developed elsewhere. The problem is you are looking back in time. Just because a club did a good job developing players 5-10 years ago doesn't mean they are still doing it today. In fact, there's a pretty good chance that whatever coach was involved in that development back then is probably somewhere else by now.

We found a Club that does it like none other. They really take the time to interview and find the coaches. Every single coach we have encountered is highly professional and incredibly dedicated and talented. They don't scream during matches. They give very thorough feedback/constant evaluation and are good role models. They keep track of team possession time and pass strings each game and it is given more weight than final game score. The Club has a philosophy in training and development that is carried out through each group. Any new Coach is trained during practice to the method. They are supported. The Technical Directors and Staff at the top are invested in the 7-year olds. The teams that are now rolling out of this program that started 3-4 years ago play light years above many in the same age group. They move and pass like much, MUCH older kids. There is no way that all 40 of these kids just happened on the Club at that time. The club started working with them at 6 and this is why these kids have the knowledge and skill that they do. There is complete transparency from the way the money is spent to the way the programs are implemented. There is Club unity and very little emphasis is placed on ranking children at any point in time. They will move up and down and up, etc., much like anyone does in natural development but it is destigmatized. The best part is they manage to keep it fun. My kids have come home and said 'practices are so much more fun here'.

We have been at the 'best' club in the area, but the coaches varied greatly in demeanor, ability and knowledge. Training was not consistent and spotty at best. No unified philosophy or program. Very segregated early on. Kids got dumped from one year to the next with next group of coaches knowing absolutely nothing about them. Teams were picked solely at chaotic scrimmages and most weight was given to who could knock everyone down and ball hog the most. If you passed or moved to space--bye, bye. Evaluations were really useless and crappy on metrics not age appropriate.

It's night and day where we are now. I do agree that--most clubs are the same--hit and miss. We are lucky to have found one doing it differently. I am glad I got it right for one of my kids. But, it was only after getting it so wrong for the first one that I was able to know what I WASN'T looking for.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We found a Club that does it like none other. They really take the time to interview and find the coaches. Every single coach we have encountered is highly professional and incredibly dedicated and talented. They don't scream during matches. They give very thorough feedback/constant evaluation and are good role models. They keep track of team possession time and pass strings each game and it is given more weight than final game score. The Club has a philosophy in training and development that is carried out through each group. Any new Coach is trained during practice to the method. They are supported. The Technical Directors and Staff at the top are invested in the 7-year olds. The teams that are now rolling out of this program that started 3-4 years ago play light years above many in the same age group. They move and pass like much, MUCH older kids. There is no way that all 40 of these kids just happened on the Club at that time. The club started working with them at 6 and this is why these kids have the knowledge and skill that they do. There is complete transparency from the way the money is spent to the way the programs are implemented. There is Club unity and very little emphasis is placed on ranking children at any point in time. They will move up and down and up, etc., much like anyone does in natural development but it is destigmatized. The best part is they manage to keep it fun. My kids have come home and said 'practices are so much more fun here'.

Alexandria?

We have been at the 'best' club in the area, but the coaches varied greatly in demeanor, ability and knowledge. Training was not consistent and spotty at best. No unified philosophy or program. Very segregated early on. Kids got dumped from one year to the next with next group of coaches knowing absolutely nothing about them. Teams were picked solely at chaotic scrimmages and most weight was given to who could knock everyone down and ball hog the most. If you passed or moved to space--bye, bye. Evaluations were really useless and crappy on metrics not age appropriate.

Arlington?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I thought the suggestion of finding out where the current top U15-U18 players were when they were U9-U12 was at least on the right track, because just looking at which clubs end up with those players at the older age groups (and hence has successful teams, wins state cups, etc... ) tells you nothing if those players we developed elsewhere. The problem is you are looking back in time. Just because a club did a good job developing players 5-10 years ago doesn't mean they are still doing it today. In fact, there's a pretty good chance that whatever coach was involved in that development back then is probably somewhere else by now.

Those aren't the biggest problems with this approach. My daughter moved to one of the most accomplished teams in the area after her U12 season. So by your theory, her old club should get credit for her development. But while it may deserve some credit, a lot, if not most, of the credit goes to the outside training she did with private companies. Not to mention, she has learned a lot more in the few years at her new club than she did in the years at her old club. It's simplistic to suggest that you can just look at where a kid played their first years of travel and know where they developed their skills.

NP here, and I agree you can't make too many assumptions about a kid's training just knowing what club they started out with. Your parents' soccer knowledge and interest is by far the biggest single predictor of success in my experience. Still, it's an interesting exercise. I was just looking over the U16 and U18 rosters for the DA clubs I'm most familiar with--DC, Bethesda, and Baltimore Armour--and I was surprised by how many of the boys I knew or knew of from my son's younger years of playing. The kids I recognized played for a variety of clubs, among them Arlington, Bethesda, Baltimore Bays/Celtic, McLean, Olney, Freestate/Md United, and PWSI.

The rivalries between teams back when the boys were U10-U13 were intense then, whether you were trying to win NCSL Division 1 or the top divisions of Jeff Cup, or the Potomac or Bethesda tournaments. Is it that way today if you are in CCL or other leagues without promotion and relegation? Teams definitely played to win, but I'm not sure anyone's development was harmed by that. There were maybe one or two long-ball coaches/teams you'd face each season, but the other teams all were doing their best to play proper soccer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I thought the suggestion of finding out where the current top U15-U18 players were when they were U9-U12 was at least on the right track, because just looking at which clubs end up with those players at the older age groups (and hence has successful teams, wins state cups, etc... ) tells you nothing if those players we developed elsewhere. The problem is you are looking back in time. Just because a club did a good job developing players 5-10 years ago doesn't mean they are still doing it today. In fact, there's a pretty good chance that whatever coach was involved in that development back then is probably somewhere else by now.

Those aren't the biggest problems with this approach. My daughter moved to one of the most accomplished teams in the area after her U12 season. So by your theory, her old club should get credit for her development. But while it may deserve some credit, a lot, if not most, of the credit goes to the outside training she did with private companies. Not to mention, she has learned a lot more in the few years at her new club than she did in the years at her old club. It's simplistic to suggest that you can just look at where a kid played their first years of travel and know where they developed their skills.

NP here, and I agree you can't make too many assumptions about a kid's training just knowing what club they started out with. Your parents' soccer knowledge and interest is by far the biggest single predictor of success in my experience. Still, it's an interesting exercise. I was just looking over the U16 and U18 rosters for the DA clubs I'm most familiar with--DC, Bethesda, and Baltimore Armour--and I was surprised by how many of the boys I knew or knew of from my son's younger years of playing. The kids I recognized played for a variety of clubs, among them Arlington, Bethesda, Baltimore Bays/Celtic, McLean, Olney, Freestate/Md United, and PWSI.

The rivalries between teams back when the boys were U10-U13 were intense then, whether you were trying to win NCSL Division 1 or the top divisions of Jeff Cup, or the Potomac or Bethesda tournaments. Is it that way today if you are in CCL or other leagues without promotion and relegation? Teams definitely played to win, but I'm not sure anyone's development was harmed by that. There were maybe one or two long-ball coaches/teams you'd face each season, but the other teams all were doing their best to play proper soccer.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just find it curious that CCL fans are now congratulating CCL for addressing a problem (too much travel) that they insist we should never have discussed.

I really don't care. I just find it fascinating human behavior.

And I *am* curious to see how they'll implement it and the knock-on effects it'll have in Northern Virginia. Will NCSL barely field any teams through U12? Will ODSL be reduced to Cougars vs. Dynamite? Will EDP's efforts to limit travel by recruiting more DMV clubs be doomed?

There's a lot to discuss here. If you don't like it, well, there are millions of other message board threads ...

Yeah I wonder if the very large clubs will move all their teams into this new league ? That would many others move as well.

But then they can't strut around bragging about the exclusive and eliteness anymore.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just find it curious that CCL fans are now congratulating CCL for addressing a problem (too much travel) that they insist we should never have discussed.

I really don't care. I just find it fascinating human behavior.

And I *am* curious to see how they'll implement it and the knock-on effects it'll have in Northern Virginia. Will NCSL barely field any teams through U12? Will ODSL be reduced to Cougars vs. Dynamite? Will EDP's efforts to limit travel by recruiting more DMV clubs be doomed?

There's a lot to discuss here. If you don't like it, well, there are millions of other message board threads ...

Yeah I wonder if the very large clubs will move all their teams into this new league ? That would many others move as well.

But then they can't strut around bragging about the exclusive and eliteness anymore.

I chuckled to myself over that too. I also find it ironic that now they most likely will have to let in the 'basket of deplorables' they used to mock as not 'elite' enough.

[Anonymous]

To get back on individual development.

In later years, it's really the kids that spend time on their own every day that move away from the pack.

U-13 and below is just a crapshoot. The most skilled often aren't physically there yet. With time, those factors start evening out. The kids that don't spend or devote most of their time to working with the ball at their feet will start dropping off.