Freeloading swim team parents suck

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:It’s always the people who don’t volunteer who decide the system is inefficient and they could do it with fewer people!!

Except several people here have commented that they do volunteer and see how it could be more efficient.

In my experience it’s the martyrs who get upset both when other people don’t volunteer and when people who do volunteer try to make suggestions.

I read all the pages and didn’t see a suggestion from someone that actually sounded like they had experience. So what, particularly did I miss?
I heard just have one timer instead of three, no concussions. Neither of those is realistic.

Please explain for us non-swimmers what they do with the three times per swimmer. Do they average the times? How do they choose which time to go with?

Average time as usually people are slightly off with timing so the middle time usually wins.

That’s not what average time means! Average would be to add them all up and divide by three.

They don’t take a statistical average just the middle time (throw out high and low). It would take too long to average the numbers during a meet

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why can’t parents buy out? For every time they have to time or work concessions, they need pay wages to cover someone else doing it. That would be the hourly rate and the prorated cost of hiring the staffing firm which of course would need to be licensed and insured.

The cost of the buy out would be above the cost of joining swim team.

Then you’d need a volunteer to manage the people you hire

Hiring people to work a meet just isn’t realistic. Sure you could pay your sitter to do it but they can’t have new people coming through every weekend.

It’s a short season. Just volunteer

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

But, qualifying for championships is not just times. We are also factoring participation. By kids at practices and by parents volunteering. Feels good.

Love this! Great idea.

I can't imagine how that would go over at a competitive pool. A kid taking a spot in divisional and costing the team points and either a shot at a championship or a relegation would be under so much pressure to drop out at our pool. The older kids all know scores, standings, their times, opponent times... They would absolutely notice a kid 6th on the ladder swimming over a kid ranked 1st or 2nd

Your pool sounds horrible.
My post got cropped, but we are in a small, friendly league. We don't reward "superstar" kids with fast times who just show up and contribute nothing but a fast time. That kid can get his times clocked and get a scholarship to college? I don't know. He doesn't need to take a spot at OUR pool where the swimmers are trying to improve and the families who volunteer are valued.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Hmm. No one ever told me I was supposed to volunteer at meets. I read all the emails and stay with my daughter through meets and talk to the coaches at the meets and attend some practices. What am I missing?

I am sorry to say, you are missing a lot, PP. There wasn't a new swimmer meeting back in May? You haven't seen a sign up genius for volunteers? Or people setting up tents or concessions or timers? At the next meet, you can always just start helping with set-up or clean-up - many hands make light work after all.

Also, could you clarify what you mean by staying with your daughter during the meet? Why isn't she sitting in the team area with the rest of the team? Are you sitting in the team area with your swimmer? If so, please know that spectators don't sit with the swimmers, as that area is for the team -- even if they are an 8 and under.

If you have any questions, please ask your team rep, or the fellow parent selling you that hamburger at the concession stand!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

But, qualifying for championships is not just times. We are also factoring participation. By kids at practices and by parents volunteering. Feels good.

Love this! Great idea.

I can't imagine how that would go over at a competitive pool. A kid taking a spot in divisional and costing the team points and either a shot at a championship or a relegation would be under so much pressure to drop out at our pool. The older kids all know scores, standings, their times, opponent times... They would absolutely notice a kid 6th on the ladder swimming over a kid ranked 1st or 2nd

Your pool sounds horrible.
My post got cropped, but we are in a small, friendly league. We don't reward "superstar" kids with fast times who just show up and contribute nothing but a fast time. That kid can get his times clocked and get a scholarship to college? I don't know. He doesn't need to take a spot at OUR pool where the swimmers are trying to improve and the families who volunteer are valued.

I'm guessing the "competitive pool" poster is from a NVSL Division 1 pool, where they recruit swimmers and it is INTENSE.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why can’t parents buy out? For every time they have to time or work concessions, they need pay wages to cover someone else doing it. That would be the hourly rate and the prorated cost of hiring the staffing firm which of course would need to be licensed and insured.

The cost of the buy out would be above the cost of joining swim team.

Then you’d need a volunteer to manage the people you hire

Hiring people to work a meet just isn’t realistic. Sure you could pay your sitter to do it but they can’t have new people coming through every weekend.

It’s a short season. Just volunteer

+1
Hiring people just isn’t realistic. At our pool, you personally could pay someone to come time for you. But you’ll need to find and arrange that yourself.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

But, qualifying for championships is not just times. We are also factoring participation. By kids at practices and by parents volunteering. Feels good.

Love this! Great idea.

I can't imagine how that would go over at a competitive pool. A kid taking a spot in divisional and costing the team points and either a shot at a championship or a relegation would be under so much pressure to drop out at our pool. The older kids all know scores, standings, their times, opponent times... They would absolutely notice a kid 6th on the ladder swimming over a kid ranked 1st or 2nd

Your pool sounds horrible.
My post got cropped, but we are in a small, friendly league. We don't reward "superstar" kids with fast times who just show up and contribute nothing but a fast time. That kid can get his times clocked and get a scholarship to college? I don't know. He doesn't need to take a spot at OUR pool where the swimmers are trying to improve and the families who volunteer are valued.

I'm guessing the "competitive pool" poster is from a NVSL Division 1 pool, where they recruit swimmers and it is INTENSE.

Only Tuckahoe and Chesterbrook.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Don't have time to read through 19 pages of this nonsense but I judge the volunteer nazis like OP who deliberately try to make people feel bad. Same person who gets into a tizzy when the volunteers' shirt isn't 100% white cotton or if someone makes a mistake when filling out those unnecessary ribbons. SMD, OP.

Riddle me this, how is a single parent with one kid swimming and two others who aren't because they aren't old enough or don't want to but aren't old enough to be at home by themselves supposed to volunteer for 5 effing swim meets, plus all of the other stupid events such as needing volunteers for tie-dying shirts, or for pancake breakfasts or for the rootbeer floats. It's so much bullshine.

Perhaps at registration allow folks to opt out from volunteering for an additionl $50-$100. Then you could hire the additional help needed to do the meets.

For B meets, why not just one or two timers? It's not important at all and if little Johnny is going to swim in 8 meets he doesn't need 24 different time samples for each stroke to figure out if he's good enough for all stars or whatever else.

Summer swim team is not for the person is this situation then.
The social culture -root beer floats and pancake breakfasts and the other stuff you deem billshine - is what makes it fun for the kids. Versus year round swimming which is a grind.

As someone who does my best to volunteer whenever I can, while working around a full-time job, this attitude makes me sad. As a timer, does it really make my job harder if there's an extra kid in Lane 6 vs that lane being empty, or maybe having one extra heat of freestylers? No? Then why should the kid be barred from joining the team if his parents have a hard time with the volunteer schedule, or don't want to bring him to the extras?

I'm glad our team isn't that clique-y. We welcome all swimmers, regardless of the family situation. Of course we request and encourage volunteering; we have the same needs as every other team. But we would never push a family out or shun a kid if the parents are in a tough spot schedule-wise. I mean, some of the 'freeloader' parents on swim team are really active in PTA or Scouts or other time-consuming activities throughout the year, in which my kids benefit from their volunteer time. Or not ... but the kid should still have an opportunity to participate regardless. I volunteer because I want to make the activity better for all kids, not just the ones from families I deem worthy of it.

The issue becomes it heavily falls on other parents, especially with smaller teams. We only have one ref, so every home meet, my spouse has to ref. He cannot get sick or miss it for any reason and has to rearrange his work schedule around it as no one else will step up. When he's not ref, he's stroke and turn. He doesn't get one meet off, which isn't really fair. And, I'm doing a lot of behind the scenes stuff.

That’s a little much. He’s allowed to get sick. Your husband could set some boundaries and give his availability and stick to it. People are never going to volunteer because they know Frank always does it or that your family will step in. Just say no. Let the cards fall where they may.

He has very good boundaries but the swim meet will not happen without a ref. Its a small team. We will do our part but it sucks when others don't. Its only two months. No one else IS stepping in. You must not get swim as you have to get certified for specific positions.

So if a new family wants to join swim but isn't sure they can ref, the answer is for them to not join at all?

Or encourage them to join and do what they can, even if it's little to nothing the first year, in hopes that next year they'll know what is coming and can start gradually increasing their contribution?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

But, qualifying for championships is not just times. We are also factoring participation. By kids at practices and by parents volunteering. Feels good.

Love this! Great idea.

I can't imagine how that would go over at a competitive pool. A kid taking a spot in divisional and costing the team points and either a shot at a championship or a relegation would be under so much pressure to drop out at our pool. The older kids all know scores, standings, their times, opponent times... They would absolutely notice a kid 6th on the ladder swimming over a kid ranked 1st or 2nd

Your pool sounds horrible.
My post got cropped, but we are in a small, friendly league. We don't reward "superstar" kids with fast times who just show up and contribute nothing but a fast time. That kid can get his times clocked and get a scholarship to college? I don't know. He doesn't need to take a spot at OUR pool where the swimmers are trying to improve and the families who volunteer are valued.

I'm guessing the "competitive pool" poster is from a NVSL Division 1 pool, where they recruit swimmers and it is INTENSE.

Only Tuckahoe and Chesterbrook.

Yes, I know we are unique being small. Thanks for the insight! I think the message here is the same, though. Big or small, intense or friendly, volunteers are necessary for meets to happen, and freeloaders suck!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If volunteer obligations are not being met - the expectations are too great. Period.

The fact that they aren't too much for some does not mean they are reasonable. If it isn't working, the answer is - it's not working.

Highly disagree. There are always moochers. If everyone contributed a reasonable share it wouldn’t be bad, but they don’t. I think that’s the OPs point.

I'm generally not going to volunteer for a task that isn't necessary (above-referenced pancake breakfasts, ribbons at every meet / heat, etc.). Swim parents sound crazy.

My kid does travel and school softball and there's little of this bullshit. Current travel team has people volunteer to bring coffee to early start games for the coaches and parents, but that's it. If you don't end up in the championship of the tournament, there's no ribbon or anything. Typically 144 (12 girls on a team x 12) girls in each age group walk away from a tournament without anything -- and that's okay. (assuming a "gold" and "silver" bracket at the end with 16 teams in the tournament). If we are going to be at a field all day, we may put together a potluck lunch, or not. Just depends. Concesssions are not always available, and we plan accordingly.

Are you always this snobby? SMDH!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If volunteer obligations are not being met - the expectations are too great. Period.

The fact that they aren't too much for some does not mean they are reasonable. If it isn't working, the answer is - it's not working.

Highly disagree. There are always moochers. If everyone contributed a reasonable share it wouldn’t be bad, but they don’t. I think that’s the OPs point.

I'm generally not going to volunteer for a task that isn't necessary (above-referenced pancake breakfasts, ribbons at every meet / heat, etc.). Swim parents sound crazy.

My kid does travel and school softball and there's little of this bullshit. Current travel team has people volunteer to bring coffee to early start games for the coaches and parents, but that's it. If you don't end up in the championship of the tournament, there's no ribbon or anything. Typically 144 (12 girls on a team x 12) girls in each age group walk away from a tournament without anything -- and that's okay. (assuming a "gold" and "silver" bracket at the end with 16 teams in the tournament). If we are going to be at a field all day, we may put together a potluck lunch, or not. Just depends. Concesssions are not always available, and we plan accordingly.

Are you always this snobby? SMDH!

Snobby isn’t the word that comes to mind for a non “swim parent” who joins a swim parent thread to call people crazy and then spew minutia about some other sport league.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

But, qualifying for championships is not just times. We are also factoring participation. By kids at practices and by parents volunteering. Feels good.

Love this! Great idea.

I can't imagine how that would go over at a competitive pool. A kid taking a spot in divisional and costing the team points and either a shot at a championship or a relegation would be under so much pressure to drop out at our pool. The older kids all know scores, standings, their times, opponent times... They would absolutely notice a kid 6th on the ladder swimming over a kid ranked 1st or 2nd

Your pool sounds horrible.
My post got cropped, but we are in a small, friendly league. We don't reward "superstar" kids with fast times who just show up and contribute nothing but a fast time. That kid can get his times clocked and get a scholarship to college? I don't know. He doesn't need to take a spot at OUR pool where the swimmers are trying to improve and the families who volunteer are valued.

NP
Our pool has A meets for the faster more competitive swimmers and B meets for everyone else. Believe me, ALL swimmers are trying to improve and ALL parents who volunteer are valued. Many of the A meet super competitive swimmers are at all the pep rallies, help out with the younger kids, and even come to B meets just to cheer the other swimmers on, even though they’re not swimming in that particular meet themselves. We are Division B in an MCSL pool, and we’re pretty competitive. I don’t know one single competitive kid who only shows up to the meets and contributes nothing else.

[Anonymous]

If "the value" of a swimmer could be judged on anything other than their timed performance, coaches would be accused of favoritism, favoring certain parents, certain families - that's horrible.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Don't have time to read through 19 pages of this nonsense but I judge the volunteer nazis like OP who deliberately try to make people feel bad. Same person who gets into a tizzy when the volunteers' shirt isn't 100% white cotton or if someone makes a mistake when filling out those unnecessary ribbons. SMD, OP.

Riddle me this, how is a single parent with one kid swimming and two others who aren't because they aren't old enough or don't want to but aren't old enough to be at home by themselves supposed to volunteer for 5 effing swim meets, plus all of the other stupid events such as needing volunteers for tie-dying shirts, or for pancake breakfasts or for the rootbeer floats. It's so much bullshine.

Perhaps at registration allow folks to opt out from volunteering for an additionl $50-$100. Then you could hire the additional help needed to do the meets.

For B meets, why not just one or two timers? It's not important at all and if little Johnny is going to swim in 8 meets he doesn't need 24 different time samples for each stroke to figure out if he's good enough for all stars or whatever else.

Summer swim team is not for the person is this situation then.
The social culture -root beer floats and pancake breakfasts and the other stuff you deem billshine - is what makes it fun for the kids. Versus year round swimming which is a grind.

As someone who does my best to volunteer whenever I can, while working around a full-time job, this attitude makes me sad. As a timer, does it really make my job harder if there's an extra kid in Lane 6 vs that lane being empty, or maybe having one extra heat of freestylers? No? Then why should the kid be barred from joining the team if his parents have a hard time with the volunteer schedule, or don't want to bring him to the extras?

I'm glad our team isn't that clique-y. We welcome all swimmers, regardless of the family situation. Of course we request and encourage volunteering; we have the same needs as every other team. But we would never push a family out or shun a kid if the parents are in a tough spot schedule-wise. I mean, some of the 'freeloader' parents on swim team are really active in PTA or Scouts or other time-consuming activities throughout the year, in which my kids benefit from their volunteer time. Or not ... but the kid should still have an opportunity to participate regardless. I volunteer because I want to make the activity better for all kids, not just the ones from families I deem worthy of it.

The issue becomes it heavily falls on other parents, especially with smaller teams. We only have one ref, so every home meet, my spouse has to ref. He cannot get sick or miss it for any reason and has to rearrange his work schedule around it as no one else will step up. When he's not ref, he's stroke and turn. He doesn't get one meet off, which isn't really fair. And, I'm doing a lot of behind the scenes stuff.

Martyr of the year. Get a life. Or a new job.

[Anonymous]

the people joining this thread to hate on summer swim confuse me. I mean summer swim is a short intense season. I love it. Its a whole family thing- boys and girls, ages 5-18 swimming. Parents volunteering. Pep rallies friday night. Snack bar to both provide meals on Monday night meets and also candy etc. It's 5 weeks of the summer. I would much rather have my whole family involved in something for 5 weeks than be shlepping kids all over VA all year to play in travel soccer tournaments. To each his own.
The criticisms are over the top- I mean if you are timing you can't watch your kid? Timing is like the easiest way to watch your kids- 6 lanes across- you need to start your watch and stop it- you don't need to watch the swimmer in your lane the whole time. You are only maybe going to miss your kids finish if they are coming in right together and are not next to each other-- but that is pretty rare. I'll give you that stroke and turn sometimes misses watching their own kid, but as a S&T I still get a pretty good look at my kids. Honestly, I am much more likely to miss my child when I am not working and chatting. Concessions, table, etc- all these you can step away to watch your kid.
Sure you could do a swim team without a concession stand- with a casual approach to timing (if you go there- why time at all- just watch the place order), with no DQ's, no pep rallies etc.
Kids can also just gather in the park and play soccer with no refs/ no coaches etc.