Anyone else surprised by a lack of interest in William & Mary?

[Anonymous]

Perfect for my DD. Not too small, not too big. She can party when she wants to and she can be enthusiastic about her classes and learning.
(At my son’s big state school there is pressure to act like you don’t care about your classes or learning, which is unfortunate.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:W&M has several issues that makes it unattractive but the worst one, and also the one that it can't change, is its location.

1. It's an oversized LAC with no CS or engineering in the age of technology.
2. The lack of federally funded research dollars limits the rigor of classes provided at higher levels vs. universities where top undergrads often take graduate level courses. It also means lack of research opportunities and worse facilities.
3. The school is stressful, but students seem to incorrectly think they are at MIT, U. Chicago or Cornell. It's no where as bad.
4. It has parties and sports but they aren't as large as other publics, which is fine given there are plenty of options in-state and out for those that want that.
5. There are plenty of different types of students. If you're the kind worried about being surrounded by "quirky" or "weird" kids, you're probably aren't one of the cool kids anyways.
6. On the other end, the students aren't so kind or collaborative either. It's as competitive as any other school in it's tier, especially in pre-med and business.

The location, though, is unforgivably terrible.

1. It's suburban, so students don't get the fast-pace and opportunities of an urban environment nor the rustic charm of a rural location.
2. Despite being suburban, it's far from any major metros.
3. It's a tourist trap, so despite being a suburban location far from major metros, it's expensive. There aren't any charming and cheap local shops and cafes because they're replaced by national brands catering to tourists.
4. It's a retirement destination for seniors which adds to the high living expense. Despite being suburban, there aren't many young families around.
6. It's quite literally built on top of a swamp. So it's extremely humid and muggy.
7. It's in the South.

You really sound like you have an axe to grind. My kid looked at W&M seriously. It wasn't for them but there were a lot of positives. Some negatives too but nowhere near to the extent of your post. Two of their friends were thrilled to get in ED. Alums who I am friends with are insanely loyal to the place.

+1 That poster sounds like the anti-W&M troll that can't be taken seriously.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:W&M has several issues that makes it unattractive but the worst one, and also the one that it can't change, is its location.

1. It's an oversized LAC with no CS or engineering in the age of technology.
2. The lack of federally funded research dollars limits the rigor of classes provided at higher levels vs. universities where top undergrads often take graduate level courses. It also means lack of research opportunities and worse facilities.
3. The school is stressful, but students seem to incorrectly think they are at MIT, U. Chicago or Cornell. It's no where as bad.
4. It has parties and sports but they aren't as large as other publics, which is fine given there are plenty of options in-state and out for those that want that.
5. There are plenty of different types of students. If you're the kind worried about being surrounded by "quirky" or "weird" kids, you're probably aren't one of the cool kids anyways.
6. On the other end, the students aren't so kind or collaborative either. It's as competitive as any other school in it's tier, especially in pre-med and business.

The location, though, is unforgivably terrible.

1. It's suburban, so students don't get the fast-pace and opportunities of an urban environment nor the rustic charm of a rural location.
2. Despite being suburban, it's far from any major metros.
3. It's a tourist trap, so despite being a suburban location far from major metros, it's expensive. There aren't any charming and cheap local shops and cafes because they're replaced by national brands catering to tourists.
4. It's a retirement destination for seniors which adds to the high living expense. Despite being suburban, there aren't many young families around.
6. It's quite literally built on top of a swamp. So it's extremely humid and muggy.
7. It's in the South.

You really sound like you have an axe to grind. My kid looked at W&M seriously. It wasn't for them but there were a lot of positives. Some negatives too but nowhere near to the extent of your post. Two of their friends were thrilled to get in ED. Alums who I am friends with are insanely loyal to the place.

+1 That poster sounds like the anti-W&M troll that can't be taken seriously.

It could be the guy that has lingering issues with an ex that attended W&M.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:They just reported an increase (again) in ED applications.

They’ve also been reported on for antisemitism on campus:


https://www.wavy.com/news/local-news/williamsburg/jewish-wm-students-say-other-students-verbally-assaulted-them-due-to-war-in-israel/amp/

https://www.13newsnow.com/amp/article/news/local/virginia/williamsburg/brick-thrown-william-mary-presidents-home-university-spokesperson-confirms/291-0542584c-c566-4999-9bd4-4e10f7931c2e

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:W&M is a great school. We wanted our son to love it as it would be a solid target. It is close to home and it would a perfect back up.

DS hated it and said he would be so disappointed going there.

Williamsburg I guess doesn’t seem like an exciting place to go away to college. I mean we barely go there every few years.

So many places aren’t exciting though. For my DS that just got in, he didn’t focus on the colonial thing. It’s a pretty area that’s kind of suburban. It’s not a city but it’s not the middle of nowhere. A number of schools he was looking at are truly in rural locations (see Gambler OH) or are in depressed, older cities (eg Rochester) so Williamsburg seems relatively pleasant. If you have a kid that wants NYC or something its obviously not a fit and it’s not a big college town like you get at a huge state school but it seems better to me than a lot of alternatives.

My kid does want nyc or Boston or Philly. He wants a big city.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:W&M has several issues that makes it unattractive but the worst one, and also the one that it can't change, is its location.

1. It's an oversized LAC with no CS or engineering in the age of technology.
2. The lack of federally funded research dollars limits the rigor of classes provided at higher levels vs. universities where top undergrads often take graduate level courses. It also means lack of research opportunities and worse facilities.
3. The school is stressful, but students seem to incorrectly think they are at MIT, U. Chicago or Cornell. It's no where as bad.
4. It has parties and sports but they aren't as large as other publics, which is fine given there are plenty of options in-state and out for those that want that.
5. There are plenty of different types of students. If you're the kind worried about being surrounded by "quirky" or "weird" kids, you're probably aren't one of the cool kids anyways.
6. On the other end, the students aren't so kind or collaborative either. It's as competitive as any other school in it's tier, especially in pre-med and business.

The location, though, is unforgivably terrible.

1. It's suburban, so students don't get the fast-pace and opportunities of an urban environment nor the rustic charm of a rural location.
2. Despite being suburban, it's far from any major metros.
3. It's a tourist trap, so despite being a suburban location far from major metros, it's expensive. There aren't any charming and cheap local shops and cafes because they're replaced by national brands catering to tourists.
4. It's a retirement destination for seniors which adds to the high living expense. Despite being suburban, there aren't many young families around.
6. It's quite literally built on top of a swamp. So it's extremely humid and muggy.
7. It's in the South.

You really sound like you have an axe to grind. My kid looked at W&M seriously. It wasn't for them but there were a lot of positives. Some negatives too but nowhere near to the extent of your post. Two of their friends were thrilled to get in ED. Alums who I am friends with are insanely loyal to the place.

I've given a very balanced assessment of the school - that 's not as stressful as perceived, it's a LAC, it may not be as party-y or sport-y as other schools but that's fine, the students are normal as in any other school, and you think I have an axe to grind?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:W&M has several issues that makes it unattractive but the worst one, and also the one that it can't change, is its location.

1. It's an oversized LAC with no CS or engineering in the age of technology.
2. The lack of federally funded research dollars limits the rigor of classes provided at higher levels vs. universities where top undergrads often take graduate level courses. It also means lack of research opportunities and worse facilities.
3. The school is stressful, but students seem to incorrectly think they are at MIT, U. Chicago or Cornell. It's no where as bad.
4. It has parties and sports but they aren't as large as other publics, which is fine given there are plenty of options in-state and out for those that want that.
5. There are plenty of different types of students. If you're the kind worried about being surrounded by "quirky" or "weird" kids, you're probably aren't one of the cool kids anyways.
6. On the other end, the students aren't so kind or collaborative either. It's as competitive as any other school in it's tier, especially in pre-med and business.

The location, though, is unforgivably terrible.

1. It's suburban, so students don't get the fast-pace and opportunities of an urban environment nor the rustic charm of a rural location.
2. Despite being suburban, it's far from any major metros.
3. It's a tourist trap, so despite being a suburban location far from major metros, it's expensive. There aren't any charming and cheap local shops and cafes because they're replaced by national brands catering to tourists.
4. It's a retirement destination for seniors which adds to the high living expense. Despite being suburban, there aren't many young families around.
6. It's quite literally built on top of a swamp. So it's extremely humid and muggy.
7. It's in the South.

You really sound like you have an axe to grind. My kid looked at W&M seriously. It wasn't for them but there were a lot of positives. Some negatives too but nowhere near to the extent of your post. Two of their friends were thrilled to get in ED. Alums who I am friends with are insanely loyal to the place.

I've given a very balanced assessment of the school - that 's not as stressful as perceived, it's a LAC, it may not be as party-y or sport-y as other schools but that's fine, the students are normal as in any other school, and you think I have an axe to grind?

It's not really a LAC though, half of all majors are STEM

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:W&M has several issues that makes it unattractive but the worst one, and also the one that it can't change, is its location.

1. It's an oversized LAC with no CS

Huh?? It has a huge CS program. 5th biggest major

+1. And WM just founded a school of data science and CS. And has had 4-5 new professors hired in this area recently. So what the flip, OP?

This is just one of the many places you are wrong. You’re jumbling a bunch of stereotypes, adding a healthy dose of resentment and making pronouncements that clearly show that you haven’t had a connection to the school or first hand experience with the school— or talked to kids who attended.

You’re right that is doesn’t have big sports. And the party science isn’t Roll Tide level. But there is Greek life and students who want to party on weekends can easily do so. And LDOC each semester is a bunch of kids carrying gallon milk jars of grain alcohol and Kool Aid with them too classes to finish in a day. So, it’s not that strait laced. Plus, many kids are there because they don’t want big sports, heavy party culture.

You’re right that that this year (and next) students are fighting with retirees for affordable housing. This was not an issue until this year, when WM started letting WL kids come in as spring admits, effectively raising the size of the class. At the same time, dorms are coming offline for renovation. WM has always required 2 residential years, and been ble to find housing for upperclassmen who want it (which is a lot— CW is not car friendly). This year, there was an upperclass lottery, and some kids were not offered campus spots. They are in the process of tearing down and building dorms, and expect supply will equal demand in fall 2025. So, if the timeline holds, no kid going in now will be unable to get housing because they are guaranteed the first 2 years and by year 3, new dorms will be up.

It’s rigorous. But my DD has ADHD and sometimes became overwhelmed with the intensity and competitiveness of her top FCPS HS. She finds WM to be “rigorous, but not overwhelming,” and to be “a lot of work, but I’m also having a lot of fun”. She says it is collaborative on the humanities side (she’s an IR/ critical language double major)— although kids applying to the competitive entry business school are a bit more stressed. She works with a study group in Econ (a subject that is not her strong suit, and she needs 5 semesters for her double major). And, of course, WM is very collaborative in foreign language. Modern language housing, conversation partners, fils in her target language, the fellow doe s cooking classes, works with then prepare meals for holidays in her target area, and hosts intermediate and advanced “conversation teas”. There is also a related music ensemble. And all majors and minors in the language are strongly encouraged to spend a summer overseas in an immersion setting, with a university sponsored program.

My kid just finished her 5th semester, and is not aware of any suicides on campus during her time there. There was an alcohol poisoning death, a pre-existing medical condition (epilepsy, I think ) death, and a student hit by a car with a distracted driver, while she was legally crossing. She’s removing at home.

It is basically a large LAC, and DD loves that. I love that it’s half the cost of a private LAC. In 5 semesters, she’s had 3 classes of more than 50– intro micro nd macro, and world history. The rest are 30 or less. She likes the small classes and undergrad focus. And she balked at some of the SLACs we looked at as being too small. She said she didn’t want to attend a college smaller than her (2700 person) high school. WM hits the sweet spot.

I thought she would living in CW. But, she really likes it. Walkable and bikeable and a gorgeous campus. Good farmers market and arts fairs, etc. Very good and convenient and free for students bus line. And, she says that the kids are generally nice, kind and accepting— and was especially impressed with how friendly upperclassmen were when she was a freshman. Older girls walking her back to her dorm at night, waving her over to sit with them in the cafeteria, inviting her to join study groups and clubs.

WM rank very highly in happiest students and in being the most LGBTQ friendly.

So, back to the question. Why the lack of interest in WM? I can’t speak for almost 5 years ago, when this thread started. But right now, there is plenty of interest. ED applications (binding) are up 45% in the last 2 years (looks like the “easier to get in ED” secret is out. And it has the second most applications per freshman class seat seat in the state of VA. UVA has about one extra applicant per seat each year. It also have almost identical stats to UVA for incoming freshman. Something like a .02 difference in GPA.

“Who comes here belongs here”. That may not be your kid (although I suspect given yoir bitterness and flat out lies about things like CD, your kid was rejected). And, if they were not, your kid doesn’t want WM, that’s fine. WM makes a concerted effort, through ED and demonstrated interests to accept kids who really want to be there. If that isn’t your kid, move on to a huge state U.

But, don’t lie and make sh*t up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:W&M has several issues that makes it unattractive but the worst one, and also the one that it can't change, is its location.

1. It's an oversized LAC with no CS or engineering in the age of technology.

??? CS has been a huge major for a while. And they just founded an undergrad school of Cs and data science. They are also doing a lot of hiring in CS

2. The lack of federally funded research dollars limits the rigor of classes provided at higher levels vs. universities where top undergrads often take graduate level courses. It also means lack of research opportunities and worse facilities.

The lack of rigor is BS. And rich coming from a thread that complains WM is so rigorous that kids are grade deflated. You also clearly don’t understand grant funding and the restrictions on using grants. You NIH grant isn’t going to be used to add graduate level classes. It will be used it, you know, research.

WM plenty of STEM and humanities research option, because kids aren’t fighting with grad students. And the ISLs are new, modern and gorgeous.

3. The school is stressful, but students seem to incorrectly think they are at MIT, U. Chicago or Cornell. It's no where as bad.

The school is rigorous, not necessarily overbearing or overly stressful. but I have a kid prone to anxiety, so I keep an eye if this and she is not finding it stressful. And WM is proud of the “happiest students” label. No one thinks they are MIT, Chicago or Cornell and that is not the atmosphere at the school. And this complaint is weird coming after “too poor to offer hard classes complaint. ”

4. It has parties and sports but they aren't as large as other publics, which is fine given there are plenty of options in-state and out for those that want that.

True, but there is a Greek/ party scene for those who want it. There are just other options for those that don’t.

5. There are plenty of different types of students. If you're the kind worried about being surrounded by "quirky" or "weird" kids, you're probably aren't one of the cool kids anyways.

True. It’s a school where my DD has gotten a lot of confidence because she is doing very well and has made plenty of friends by being herself

6. On the other end, the students aren't so kind or collaborative either. It's as competitive as any other school in its tier, especially in pre-med and business.

Business is stressful, because it’s competitive entry with limited seats. So, it’s a zero sum game. DD’s roommate is pre-med and doesn’t feel that it’s competitive among pre-med students. Now difficult? yes. But the students aren’t competing against each other. All in all, one of the unique things about WM is just how collaborative it is? You can be challenged academically and interpersonally, which is also part of college), without being worked to death or having a tense, stressful atmosphere. [b]

The location, though, is unforgivably terrible.

The location is on a bus line (free for students) and one block from Amtrak, where $20 gets you to DC, or further up the Eastern seaboard.

1. It's suburban, so students don't get the fast-pace and opportunities of an urban environment nor the rustic charm of a rural location.

[b]Yes it’s suburban. And because it’s touristy, there is a lot to do. My other kid goes to Hamilton. The “rustic charm” of a “rural location” lasts about a week and a half. WM has plenty to do. Even touristy things like Williamsburg decked out for Christmas, including its ice skating rink, and Grand Illuminations and Yule Log and Convocation, etc, etc are beloved by many students

2. Despite being suburban, it's far from any major metros.

Norfolk, Richmond and a 2-3 hour Amtrak to Union station in DC. In fact, WM has a DC campus where students can take classes and or intern, plus housing for students in DC for the summer, semester, winter term ,etc. so, they are accessible for weekends or breaks.

3. It's a tourist trap, so despite being a suburban location far from major metros, it's expensive. There aren't any charming and cheap local shops and cafes because they're replaced by national brands catering to tourists.

This is a lie. And places like the Cheese Shoppe say hi. In fact, Williamsburg near campus seems to have more independent stores that most places. That said, WaWa is a particular favorite among students.

4. It's a retirement destination for seniors which adds to the high living expense. Despite being suburban, there aren't many young families around.

Senior citizens are an issue right now because there isn’t enough affordable housing in Williamsburg. That issue should be settled in the next 18 months when new dorms are ready.

6. It's quite literally built on top of a swamp. So it's extremely humid and muggy.

built on a swamp? Let’s talk about NOVA/DC where 1/3 or more of the kids live. This is nothing new. Also, by 3 weeks into fall semester, we have… fall. I did have a kid there for one summer and they reported “it’s as bad a DC”[/b]

7. It's in the South.

Define “the South”?? How is WM “Southern”? Because it’s located in VA? VA is a purple state that will be blue once Youngkin goes away. Culturally, WM has more in common with Mid-Atlanic schools than southern ones. [b]

It’s a left of center but not far left school. It’s less culturally less Southern than UVA, Washington & Lee. It’ss definitely less Southern than the SEC. As you or Ted out, weak Greek life, less partying, no big time sports. It’s less Southern culturally than Vanderbilt, Duke, Wake, Emory. Nobody is pining for the old south or walking around with tiki torches.

[/b]TL;DR: your resentment will look less ridiculous if you stick yo the truth next time and don’t reach quite so desperately for negative things— especially ones you pull out of your a**. [b]

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:They just reported an increase (again) in ED applications.

45% increase over the last 2 years. And WM likes to take a lot of kids ED. RD for WM is going to be ugly this year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They just reported an increase (again) in ED applications.

They’ve also been reported on for antisemitism on campus:


https://www.wavy.com/news/local-news/williamsburg/jewish-wm-students-say-other-students-verbally-assaulted-them-due-to-war-in-israel/amp/

https://www.13newsnow.com/amp/article/news/local/virginia/williamsburg/brick-thrown-william-mary-presidents-home-university-spokesperson-confirms/291-0542584c-c566-4999-9bd4-4e10f7931c2e

I’m not really political. HTo be fair, it was a 2 way street— Jewish students and pro-Palestinian students both behaved badly and campus police got involved. If there was any-semitism, then acknowledge there was also some nasty anti-Muslim rhetoric by Jewish students. No one came out looking good. This is right before fall break. DC says the break gave everyone the chance to get their footing and it’s gotten a lot better.

[Anonymous]

Also for people who claim there's no sports culture that's definitely not true. It's not big like Tech, but last year and even moreso this year there were a lot of students at games, and at homecoming there was a line of students waiting to get into the game that wrapped around the stadium and a full student section. Freshman seem very into the sports culture.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:W&M has several issues that makes it unattractive but the worst one, and also the one that it can't change, is its location.

1. It's an oversized LAC with no CS or engineering in the age of technology.
2. The lack of federally funded research dollars limits the rigor of classes provided at higher levels vs. universities where top undergrads often take graduate level courses. It also means lack of research opportunities and worse facilities.
3. The school is stressful, but students seem to incorrectly think they are at MIT, U. Chicago or Cornell. It's no where as bad.
4. It has parties and sports but they aren't as large as other publics, which is fine given there are plenty of options in-state and out for those that want that.
5. There are plenty of different types of students. If you're the kind worried about being surrounded by "quirky" or "weird" kids, you're probably aren't one of the cool kids anyways.
6. On the other end, the students aren't so kind or collaborative either. It's as competitive as any other school in it's tier, especially in pre-med and business.

The location, though, is unforgivably terrible.

1. It's suburban, so students don't get the fast-pace and opportunities of an urban environment nor the rustic charm of a rural location.
2. Despite being suburban, it's far from any major metros.
3. It's a tourist trap, so despite being a suburban location far from major metros, it's expensive. There aren't any charming and cheap local shops and cafes because they're replaced by national brands catering to tourists.
4. It's a retirement destination for seniors which adds to the high living expense. Despite being suburban, there aren't many young families around.
6. It's quite literally built on top of a swamp. So it's extremely humid and muggy.
7. It's in the South.

You really sound like you have an axe to grind. My kid looked at W&M seriously. It wasn't for them but there were a lot of positives. Some negatives too but nowhere near to the extent of your post. Two of their friends were thrilled to get in ED. Alums who I am friends with are insanely loyal to the place.

I've given a very balanced assessment of the school - that 's not as stressful as perceived, it's a LAC, it may not be as party-y or sport-y as other schools but that's fine, the students are normal as in any other school, and you think I have an axe to grind?

It's not really a LAC though, half of all majors are STEM

It is a LAC, natural sciences and math are included in LAC. What distinguishes it from a university is that it primarily exists to educate undergrads, rather than for research.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They just reported an increase (again) in ED applications.

They’ve also been reported on for antisemitism on campus:


https://www.wavy.com/news/local-news/williamsburg/jewish-wm-students-say-other-students-verbally-assaulted-them-due-to-war-in-israel/amp/

https://www.13newsnow.com/amp/article/news/local/virginia/williamsburg/brick-thrown-william-mary-presidents-home-university-spokesperson-confirms/291-0542584c-c566-4999-9bd4-4e10f7931c2e

I’m not really political. HTo be fair, it was a 2 way street— Jewish students and pro-Palestinian students both behaved badly and campus police got involved. If there was any-semitism, then acknowledge there was also some nasty anti-Muslim rhetoric by Jewish students. No one came out looking good. This is right before fall break. DC says the break gave everyone the chance to get their footing and it’s gotten a lot better.

What was the nasty anti-Muslim rhetoric by Jewish students and where's your source for that?

If we've seen one commonality among all the protest incidents regarding the Gaza war, it's pro-Palestinians/Muslims attacking and harassing Jewish students who tend to be in the far minority. And Jewish students aren't generally the kind to get into physical fights with others, while the other side chants "By any means necessary", "Intifada, revolution", etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Also for people who claim there's no sports culture that's definitely not true. It's not big like Tech, but last year and even moreso this year there were a lot of students at games, and at homecoming there was a line of students waiting to get into the game that wrapped around the stadium and a full student section. Freshman seem very into the sports culture.

You can't really compare sports culture at a D3 to a D1 school. And lack of sports culture if anything is a good thing, there's plenty of actual sports being played in intramurals. As opposed to getting drunk and going to the stadium.