Superintendent's Recommendation for Richard Montgomery ES #5 Boundaries

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Also, to be clear, MPDUs are not designed for very low income individuals, per se - they are for moderate income individuals/families who likely wouldn't qualify for FARMS. However, low-income housing vouchers are accepted for payment of MPDU rentals, which would make them more accessible to lower income families.

Right -- the current income eligibility limits for the City of Rockville (which includes Fallsgrove) for MPDUs are:

Income is based on gross household income per year. The current MPDU maximum income limits are:
1 person family - $46,300
2 person family - $52,900
3 person family - $59,600
4 person family - $66,200
5 person family - $71,500

http://www.rockvillemd.gov/index.aspx?NID=194

And, as the PP says, they're distributed among the market-rate units. So I don't understand why people so often seem to assume that "affordable housing" = Cabrini-Green.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Are you serious? Good lord. It the county could afford that they should have been buying up homes in the Potomac and Bethesda school zones to increase their FARMS past 0-3%. The least expensive home in the areas you mentioned above would be 700K. Why would the county buy even one home and who would pay for all the utilities.

Some people never cease to amaze me what they think the government should do to even the playing field. Kids (even illegal kids) are already give free education, free transportation, free meals, free English lessons if needed. Welfare, HUD, food stamps, etc... Now we should give away half a million to million dollar homes to the poor?? We just keep enabling.

You're right, that would be poor housing policy. A better option would be to change the zoning to allow developers to buy the properties and and redevelop them as multi-family housing, with a certain percentage of units set aside as workforce and affordable housing.

I admit I don't much about real estate laws and such, but what is preventing developers from buying those home now and building townhomes there? For example, there is no assocation in HH to stop someone from building multi-family units. I suppose the city/county could prevent it, but would they really? Also, how many multi-family units can be built on one lot? It's extremely rare for multiple houses next to each other to be on the market at the same time such that a develope can buy all of them to build multi-family units.

I didn't believe you at first, so I pulled up the plat and found evidence of it and verified that you are correct. They are technically coded as townhomes, both end units. There is a shared driveway with a mailbox on each side, and the garage is split so that both can access it. The front door goes to one house, and a side door goes to the other house. This design isn't posable with every model. retrofitting a 1970s home that way would be nearly difficult. for the models in HH


Zoning prevents it. HH is zoned R-90 for its entirety. If a developer purchased a home there and tried to demolish it and build a couple townhomes, the city would prevent it by enforcing zoning regulations.

1. That's where housing policy advocacy comes in - advocating for zoning changes to reduce socio-economic segregation in older neighborhoods. This is already a priority for the City of Rockville which is why all.the new neighborhoods have a certain percentage of MPDU units and section 8 housing voucher units required in each new neighborhood that is built in Rockville.

2. Single family homes would not need to be demolished in existing neighborhoods, just renovated on the inside to turn them into duplexes for 2-3 families. As an example, in Fallsgrove, several of the MPDU units look exactly like the single family homes next to them, but they are duplexes with separate entrances. You'd never notice that unless you knew where they were and we're really looking. From the outside, they look exactly the same.

This particular proposal may or may not be realistic, but if the concern about socioeconomic segregation is genuine, then getting more people involved in housing advocacy for low and moderate income families in our city and county is a great place to direct their efforts.





.

I am only aware of this with attached single-Family homes, not detached, in Falls Grove

the MPDUs built on single family lots in Fallsgrove look like 1 single family home on the lot, but they are duplexes with 1-2 bedrooms in each.
There may be some in the attached-single family sections of the neighborhood , but I know that there are some completely detached models as I have seen them myself.

There are also MPDU units in the condo buildings and apartment buildings in Fallsgrove. Those are exactly the same models as all the other units in the apartment and condo buildings.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Are you serious? Good lord. It the county could afford that they should have been buying up homes in the Potomac and Bethesda school zones to increase their FARMS past 0-3%. The least expensive home in the areas you mentioned above would be 700K. Why would the county buy even one home and who would pay for all the utilities.

Some people never cease to amaze me what they think the government should do to even the playing field. Kids (even illegal kids) are already give free education, free transportation, free meals, free English lessons if needed. Welfare, HUD, food stamps, etc... Now we should give away half a million to million dollar homes to the poor?? We just keep enabling.

You're right, that would be poor housing policy. A better option would be to change the zoning to allow developers to buy the properties and and redevelop them as multi-family housing, with a certain percentage of units set aside as workforce and affordable housing.

I admit I don't much about real estate laws and such, but what is preventing developers from buying those home now and building townhomes there? For example, there is no assocation in HH to stop someone from building multi-family units. I suppose the city/county could prevent it, but would they really? Also, how many multi-family units can be built on one lot? It's extremely rare for multiple houses next to each other to be on the market at the same time such that a develope can buy all of them to build multi-family units.

Zoning prevents it. HH is zoned R-90 for its entirety. If a developer purchased a home there and tried to demolish it and build a couple townhomes, the city would prevent it by enforcing zoning regulations.

1. That's where housing policy advocacy comes in - advocating for zoning changes to reduce socio-economic segregation in older neighborhoods. This is already a priority for the City of Rockville which is why all.the new neighborhoods have a certain percentage of MPDU units and section 8 housing voucher units required in each new neighborhood that is built in Rockville.

2. Single family homes would not need to be demolished in existing neighborhoods, just renovated on the inside to turn them into duplexes for 2-3 families. As an example, in Fallsgrove, several of the MPDU units look exactly like the single family homes next to them, but they are duplexes with separate entrances. You'd never notice that unless you knew where they were and we're really looking. From the outside, they look exactly the same.

This particular proposal may or may not be realistic, but if the concern about socioeconomic segregation is genuine, then getting more people involved in housing advocacy for low and moderate income families in our city and county is a great place to direct their efforts.





.

I am only aware of this with attached single-Family homes, not detached, in Falls Grove

the MPDUs built on single family lots in Fallsgrove look like 1 single family home on the lot, but they are duplexes with 1-2 bedrooms in each.
There may be some in the attached-single family sections of the neighborhood , but I know that there are some completely detached models as I have seen them myself.

There are also MPDU units in the condo buildings and apartment buildings in Fallsgrove. Those are exactly the same models as all the other units in the apartment and condo buildings.

I didn't believe you at first, so I pulled up the plat and found evidence of it and verified that you are correct. They are technically coded as townhomes, both end units. There is a shared driveway with a mailbox on each side, and the garage is split so that both can access it. The front door goes to one house, and a side door goes to the other house. This design isn't posable with every model. retrofitting a 1970s home that way would be nearly difficult. for the models in HH

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Are you serious? Good lord. It the county could afford that they should have been buying up homes in the Potomac and Bethesda school zones to increase their FARMS past 0-3%. The least expensive home in the areas you mentioned above would be 700K. Why would the county buy even one home and who would pay for all the utilities.

Some people never cease to amaze me what they think the government should do to even the playing field. Kids (even illegal kids) are already give free education, free transportation, free meals, free English lessons if needed. Welfare, HUD, food stamps, etc... Now we should give away half a million to million dollar homes to the poor?? We just keep enabling.

You're right, that would be poor housing policy. A better option would be to change the zoning to allow developers to buy the properties and and redevelop them as multi-family housing, with a certain percentage of units set aside as workforce and affordable housing.

I admit I don't much about real estate laws and such, but what is preventing developers from buying those home now and building townhomes there? For example, there is no assocation in HH to stop someone from building multi-family units. I suppose the city/county could prevent it, but would they really? Also, how many multi-family units can be built on one lot? It's extremely rare for multiple houses next to each other to be on the market at the same time such that a develope can buy all of them to build multi-family units.

Zoning prevents it. HH is zoned R-90 for its entirety. If a developer purchased a home there and tried to demolish it and build a couple townhomes, the city would prevent it by enforcing zoning regulations.

1. That's where housing policy advocacy comes in - advocating for zoning changes to reduce socio-economic segregation in older neighborhoods. This is already a priority for the City of Rockville which is why all.the new neighborhoods have a certain percentage of MPDU units and section 8 housing voucher units required in each new neighborhood that is built in Rockville.

2. Single family homes would not need to be demolished in existing neighborhoods, just renovated on the inside to turn them into duplexes for 2-3 families. As an example, in Fallsgrove, several of the MPDU units look exactly like the single family homes next to them, but they are duplexes with separate entrances. You'd never notice that unless you knew where they were and we're really looking. From the outside, they look exactly the same.

This particular proposal may or may not be realistic, but if the concern about socioeconomic segregation is genuine, then getting more people involved in housing advocacy for low and moderate income families in our city and county is a great place to direct their efforts.





.

I am only aware of this with attached single-Family homes, not detached, in Falls Grove

the MPDUs built on single family lots in Fallsgrove look like 1 single family home on the lot, but they are duplexes with 1-2 bedrooms in each.
There may be some in the attached-single family sections of the neighborhood , but I know that there are some completely detached models as I have seen them myself.

There are also MPDU units in the condo buildings and apartment buildings in Fallsgrove. Those are exactly the same models as all the other units in the apartment and condo buildings.

I didn't believe you at first, so I pulled up the plat and found evidence of it and verified that you are correct. They are technically coded as townhomes, both end units. There is a shared driveway with a mailbox on each side, and the garage is split so that both can access it. The front door goes to one house, and a side door goes to the other house. This design isn't posable with every model. retrofitting a 1970s home that way would be nearly difficult. for the models in HH

Also, there appear to only be about 10 such homes in Falls Grove

[Anonymous]

In any case, it looks like the BOE wants a different set of options entirely.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:In any case, it looks like the BOE wants a different set of options entirely.

What led you to this conclusion?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In any case, it looks like the BOE wants a different set of options entirely.

What led you to this conclusion?

http://www.boarddocs.com/mabe/mcpsmd/Board.nsf/vpublic?open#

the discussion in the last meeting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In any case, it looks like the BOE wants a different set of options entirely.

What led you to this conclusion?

http://www.boarddocs.com/mabe/mcpsmd/Board.nsf/vpublic?open#

the discussion in the last meeting.

PP, could you help a person out and provide a summary, or at least a guide to which parts of the video are the ones to focus on? I don't wanna have to watch the whole thing... And the minutes aren't up yet.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In any case, it looks like the BOE wants a different set of options entirely.

What led you to this conclusion?

http://www.boarddocs.com/mabe/mcpsmd/Board.nsf/vpublic?open#

the discussion in the last meeting.

PP, could you help a person out and provide a summary, or at least a guide to which parts of the video are the ones to focus on? I don't wanna have to watch the whole thing... And the minutes aren't up yet.

Not the PP, but this was sent out on the RP listserve this morning:

MCPS has decided to introduce new boundary options for RM ES #5.  The maps and enrollment tables associated with these options will use the most recent enrollment data available for the current school year, as well as account for the increased capacity recommended for RMES #5. 
 
MCPS will reconvene the Boundary Advisory Group to review the updated information and the proposed alternatives, and provide additional feedback and comment on these options.  This meeting will be held from 6:00 pm to 8:00 pm on Thursday, November 9, in the auditorium of the Carver Educational Services Center (CESC), 850 Hungerford Drive in Rockville.  This meeting is open to the public to listen to the discussion and ask questions following the committee's meeting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Also, to be clear, MPDUs are not designed for very low income individuals, per se - they are for moderate income individuals/families who likely wouldn't qualify for FARMS. However, low-income housing vouchers are accepted for payment of MPDU rentals, which would make them more accessible to lower income families.

Right -- the current income eligibility limits for the City of Rockville (which includes Fallsgrove) for MPDUs are:

Income is based on gross household income per year. The current MPDU maximum income limits are:
1 person family - $46,300
2 person family - $52,900
3 person family - $59,600
4 person family - $66,200
5 person family - $71,500

http://www.rockvillemd.gov/index.aspx?NID=194

And, as the PP says, they're distributed among the market-rate units. So I don't understand why people so often seem to assume that "affordable housing" = Cabrini-Green.

These income guidelines are for purchase. In King Farm, HOC bought a number of units and yes, there are VERY low income people living in these on subsidy. It is such a waste. Many more people could be housed in upgraded housing stock if we didn't insist on integrating incomes by placing people on the public dole in expensive neighborhoods. You have HOC waiting lists several years long, but isn't it great that the family who gets chosen ends up with granite countertops?!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Also, to be clear, MPDUs are not designed for very low income individuals, per se - they are for moderate income individuals/families who likely wouldn't qualify for FARMS. However, low-income housing vouchers are accepted for payment of MPDU rentals, which would make them more accessible to lower income families.

Right -- the current income eligibility limits for the City of Rockville (which includes Fallsgrove) for MPDUs are:

Income is based on gross household income per year. The current MPDU maximum income limits are:
1 person family - $46,300
2 person family - $52,900
3 person family - $59,600
4 person family - $66,200
5 person family - $71,500

http://www.rockvillemd.gov/index.aspx?NID=194

And, as the PP says, they're distributed among the market-rate units. So I don't understand why people so often seem to assume that "affordable housing" = Cabrini-Green.

These income guidelines are for purchase. In King Farm, HOC bought a number of units and yes, there are VERY low income people living in these on subsidy. It is such a waste. Many more people could be housed in upgraded housing stock if we didn't insist on integrating incomes by placing people on the public dole in expensive neighborhoods. You have HOC waiting lists several years long, but isn't it great that the family who gets chosen ends up with granite countertops?!

Well. If we just give them bare minimums and ship them out to cheaper cities, we can save a bunch!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are there really two pages on this thread of how middle class single family neighborhoods in Rockville/Potomac, zoned for RM, should get homes on 0.25 acre lots knocked down in the middle of a neighborhood and a cluster of like 2-4 HUD townhouses built there? All for the sake of adding more FARMS to one freaking school?

You people have lost your minds.

No, all for the sake of reducing income segregation and increasing more-affordable housing options in Montgomery County.

Also, what is a "HUD townhouse"? We are talking about changing zoning laws to allow private development. Probably the developers in Bethesda who are knocking down smaller houses and putting up 10,000 square foot detached houses on spec would love to be able to put up duplexes of two 5,000 square foot attached houses -- if the zoning laws allowed them to do so. But the zoning laws don't.

Income segregation?? Please stop.

Montgomery County already offers too many affordable housing options which is why we have a sky rocket of illegal aliens attending our schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Also, to be clear, MPDUs are not designed for very low income individuals, per se - they are for moderate income individuals/families who likely wouldn't qualify for FARMS. However, low-income housing vouchers are accepted for payment of MPDU rentals, which would make them more accessible to lower income families.

Right -- the current income eligibility limits for the City of Rockville (which includes Fallsgrove) for MPDUs are:

Income is based on gross household income per year. The current MPDU maximum income limits are:
1 person family - $46,300
2 person family - $52,900
3 person family - $59,600
4 person family - $66,200
5 person family - $71,500

http://www.rockvillemd.gov/index.aspx?NID=194

And, as the PP says, they're distributed among the market-rate units. So I don't understand why people so often seem to assume that "affordable housing" = Cabrini-Green.

These income guidelines are for purchase. In King Farm, HOC bought a number of units and yes, there are VERY low income people living in these on subsidy. It is such a waste. Many more people could be housed in upgraded housing stock if we didn't insist on integrating incomes by placing people on the public dole in expensive neighborhoods. You have HOC waiting lists several years long, but isn't it great that the family who gets chosen ends up with granite countertops?!

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Also, to be clear, MPDUs are not designed for very low income individuals, per se - they are for moderate income individuals/families who likely wouldn't qualify for FARMS. However, low-income housing vouchers are accepted for payment of MPDU rentals, which would make them more accessible to lower income families.

Right -- the current income eligibility limits for the City of Rockville (which includes Fallsgrove) for MPDUs are:

Income is based on gross household income per year. The current MPDU maximum income limits are:
1 person family - $46,300
2 person family - $52,900
3 person family - $59,600
4 person family - $66,200
5 person family - $71,500

http://www.rockvillemd.gov/index.aspx?NID=194

And, as the PP says, they're distributed among the market-rate units. So I don't understand why people so often seem to assume that "affordable housing" = Cabrini-Green.

These income guidelines are for purchase. In King Farm, HOC bought a number of units and yes, there are VERY low income people living in these on subsidy. It is such a waste. Many more people could be housed in upgraded housing stock if we didn't insist on integrating incomes by placing people on the public dole in expensive neighborhoods. You have HOC waiting lists several years long, but isn't it great that the family who gets chosen ends up with granite countertops?!

That is a different program. The MPDU guidelines listed above are for purchase AND rentals - Fallsgrove and King Farm have both types of MPDUs. Fallsgrove and King Farm also have low-income housing units (as you mentioned) through Rockville Housing Enterprises - there are 56 low-income tax credit units in Fallsgrove and King Farm and 4 other affordable housing units in those neighborhoods (separate from the MPDU program): http://www.rockvillehe.org/

I'm sorry you think it's a waste.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

These income guidelines are for purchase. In King Farm, HOC bought a number of units and yes, there are VERY low income people living in these on subsidy. It is such a waste. Many more people could be housed in upgraded housing stock if we didn't insist on integrating incomes by placing people on the public dole in expensive neighborhoods. You have HOC waiting lists several years long, but isn't it great that the family who gets chosen ends up with granite countertops?!

HOC =/= MPDU.

How do you know which units are HOC units in King Farm, who lives there, and how they pay their housing costs? Also, wat do you know about "HOC waiting lists" in Montgomery County?