Do conservatives want to ban transgenderism for the same reasons they want to ban abortion?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Have any of you who seem to seriously hate trans people and want to see them eradicated or banned entirely ever spent any time with transgender people? I'm asking in good faith. Because I think we all know *any* of us can read stuff on the internet and we should be taking that with a grain of salt. At least I hope we know that.

"Studies" only get you so far. They don't get you into the families' decision-making process, the work they do with the counselors and doctors and the whole team of people. It's a massively long process.

But either way, I know (closely) three trans people. They are happy, well-adjusted adults who just want to live their lives free of fear and hate. I don't know why people feel the need to spread such hate. Saying "except she's a he" is just hate.

I fully, 100% appreciate the concerns around how far children should be able to transition, or what the level of care is, but when you ban all "gender affirming care" you ban counseling, discussions with medical professionals, etc. They're throwing the baby out with the bathwater. What do you people expect children with gender dysphoria to do exactly? Wallow in their misery and grief? What is the plan for them? What do you propose that's actually within your level of acceptance? I'm not a trans activist by any stretch, and I see the issues that are occurring but they're occurring because we're shutting down all conversation and turning this into a zero sum game. What is the pathway forward for a child who has gender dysphoria?

The vanishingly rare cases of gender dysphoria among children need intensive therapy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Actually one of my female friends had to have breast reduction surgery at age 17 because she was having so many back problems because of disproportionately large breasts. Allowed her to go to college and live a normal life.

It's not just trans minors folks.

That's a true medical issue. Removing the breasts of a healthy 17 YO female is not.

And now neither of them will be able to get it done in many places. Hope you are happy.

There used to be a time when republicans were for individual liberty

I will not be truly happy until the truth of this horrible industry is exposed and the money grifters at the top go to prison.

Same here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Have any of you who seem to seriously hate trans people and want to see them eradicated or banned entirely ever spent any time with transgender people? I'm asking in good faith. Because I think we all know *any* of us can read stuff on the internet and we should be taking that with a grain of salt. At least I hope we know that.

"Studies" only get you so far. They don't get you into the families' decision-making process, the work they do with the counselors and doctors and the whole team of people. It's a massively long process.

But either way, I know (closely) three trans people. They are happy, well-adjusted adults who just want to live their lives free of fear and hate. I don't know why people feel the need to spread such hate. Saying "except she's a he" is just hate.

I fully, 100% appreciate the concerns around how far children should be able to transition, or what the level of care is, but when you ban all "gender affirming care" you ban counseling, discussions with medical professionals, etc. They're throwing the baby out with the bathwater. What do you people expect children with gender dysphoria to do exactly? Wallow in their misery and grief? What is the plan for them? What do you propose that's actually within your level of acceptance? I'm not a trans activist by any stretch, and I see the issues that are occurring but they're occurring because we're shutting down all conversation and turning this into a zero sum game. What is the pathway forward for a child who has gender dysphoria?

PP with trans son here. I appreciate you. The person you’re talking to isn’t going to change though. And they’re right, they’re probably pleasant as long as they get their way. At some point they may have to choose to stand firm in their intolerance or be willing to bend and explore other options if someone they love comes out as trans (or whatever other issues they’re this inflexible about, because it’s probably not just the one issue). The hope seems to be the trans kids either shove their feelings back down inside them like they did in the good old days or they kill themselves off like they did in the good old days. Either way, it stops being a problem.

A lot of people aren’t really transphobic though. They just don’t know anyone who’s trans (or they don’t know they know anyone) and haven’t considered all the things parents have to consider. If they’re reasonably open minded and will listen, a lot of people will be open to considering other points of view.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Have any of you who seem to seriously hate trans people and want to see them eradicated or banned entirely ever spent any time with transgender people? I'm asking in good faith. Because I think we all know *any* of us can read stuff on the internet and we should be taking that with a grain of salt. At least I hope we know that.

"Studies" only get you so far. They don't get you into the families' decision-making process, the work they do with the counselors and doctors and the whole team of people. It's a massively long process.

But either way, I know (closely) three trans people. They are happy, well-adjusted adults who just want to live their lives free of fear and hate. I don't know why people feel the need to spread such hate. Saying "except she's a he" is just hate.

I fully, 100% appreciate the concerns around how far children should be able to transition, or what the level of care is, but when you ban all "gender affirming care" you ban counseling, discussions with medical professionals, etc. They're throwing the baby out with the bathwater. What do you people expect children with gender dysphoria to do exactly? Wallow in their misery and grief? What is the plan for them? What do you propose that's actually within your level of acceptance? I'm not a trans activist by any stretch, and I see the issues that are occurring but they're occurring because we're shutting down all conversation and turning this into a zero sum game. What is the pathway forward for a child who has gender dysphoria?

I am the person who wrote about my experience with doing work with prison and immigrant advocacy. I don’t hate trans people and it is absolutely ridiculous that people like you and the nonsense hysterical PP who claimed I wanted to “snuff out” trans people (still waiting on the exact quote where I said that from that PP) phrase any raised issue of women’s rights and safety as “hating” trans people. You don’t want any dialogue, you just want 100% lockstep agreement with the most radical of trans activists (which you clearly are).

But to answer your question, which I do not think is asked in good faith because I simply don’t believe trans activists act in good faith any more, I know and am friends with multiple trans people. They are generally pretty horrified by trans activists as well, at least as far as I can tell.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Have any of you who seem to seriously hate trans people and want to see them eradicated or banned entirely ever spent any time with transgender people? I'm asking in good faith. Because I think we all know *any* of us can read stuff on the internet and we should be taking that with a grain of salt. At least I hope we know that.

"Studies" only get you so far. They don't get you into the families' decision-making process, the work they do with the counselors and doctors and the whole team of people. It's a massively long process.

But either way, I know (closely) three trans people. They are happy, well-adjusted adults who just want to live their lives free of fear and hate. I don't know why people feel the need to spread such hate. Saying "except she's a he" is just hate.

I fully, 100% appreciate the concerns around how far children should be able to transition, or what the level of care is, but when you ban all "gender affirming care" you ban counseling, discussions with medical professionals, etc. They're throwing the baby out with the bathwater. What do you people expect children with gender dysphoria to do exactly? Wallow in their misery and grief? What is the plan for them? What do you propose that's actually within your level of acceptance? I'm not a trans activist by any stretch, and I see the issues that are occurring but they're occurring because we're shutting down all conversation and turning this into a zero sum game. What is the pathway forward for a child who has gender dysphoria?

I am the person who wrote about my experience with doing work with prison and immigrant advocacy. I don’t hate trans people and it is absolutely ridiculous that people like you and the nonsense hysterical PP who claimed I wanted to “snuff out” trans people (still waiting on the exact quote where I said that from that PP) phrase any raised issue of women’s rights and safety as “hating” trans people. You don’t want any dialogue, you just want 100% lockstep agreement with the most radical of trans activists (which you clearly are).

But to answer your question, which I do not think is asked in good faith because I simply don’t believe trans activists act in good faith any more, I know and am friends with multiple trans people. They are generally pretty horrified by trans activists as well, at least as far as I can tell.

If you saw yourself in that question, I think that says more about you than it did that post. I said any of you "who seem to hate trans people." If that's not you, there was no need to respond. It wasn't directed at you. I directed that question to people who are spewing hate. If you didn't spew hate, this wasn't directed at you. But you seem to think it was. I wonder why.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Have any of you who seem to seriously hate trans people and want to see them eradicated or banned entirely ever spent any time with transgender people? I'm asking in good faith. Because I think we all know *any* of us can read stuff on the internet and we should be taking that with a grain of salt. At least I hope we know that.

"Studies" only get you so far. They don't get you into the families' decision-making process, the work they do with the counselors and doctors and the whole team of people. It's a massively long process.

But either way, I know (closely) three trans people. They are happy, well-adjusted adults who just want to live their lives free of fear and hate. I don't know why people feel the need to spread such hate. Saying "except she's a he" is just hate.

I fully, 100% appreciate the concerns around how far children should be able to transition, or what the level of care is, but when you ban all "gender affirming care" you ban counseling, discussions with medical professionals, etc. They're throwing the baby out with the bathwater. What do you people expect children with gender dysphoria to do exactly? Wallow in their misery and grief? What is the plan for them? What do you propose that's actually within your level of acceptance? I'm not a trans activist by any stretch, and I see the issues that are occurring but they're occurring because we're shutting down all conversation and turning this into a zero sum game. What is the pathway forward for a child who has gender dysphoria?

The vanishingly rare cases of gender dysphoria among children need intensive therapy.

But isn't that therapy addressing gender, which is the "baby being thrown out with the bath water." The bans are also banning that. Unless you're referring to some sort of trans conversion therapy? Because otherwise, intensive therapy is part of gender-affirming care which is now prohibited in a lot of places.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a trans brother who I love, and for whom it absolutely made sense for him to transition at the age of 19. There has never been a more obvious case in the world.

HOWEVER, what it happening today is scary. It's not unreasonable to question the parameters of gender treatment in children. Its a fact that many kids going in for treatment are tween girls on the autism spectrum. I know one, there has never been a single inkling of ANY gender dysphoria, but puberty freaked her out, and now she's on blockers.
The doctors IN CHARGE of transgender care, who are trans themselves, have begun to raise flags on the explosion of treatment. I urge you to read it. https://www.thefp.com/p/top-trans-doctors-blow-the-whistle

Why is this happening? Where did we cross a line into rubber stamping a decision with serious consequences?

In my children's DCPS kindergarten hallway, there is a literal poster with Malcolm Shanks on it in a hair wrap and five o'clock shadow that says, "Everybody has the right to choose their own gender by listening to their own heart and mind. Everyone gets to choose if they are a boy or a girl or neither or something else, and no one gets to choose for them."

I support the trans adults in my life. I acknowledge that being trans is real -- and rare. Introducing a five-year-old to a concept that likens gender to choosing an ice cream scoop is absolute madness.

I think if you've transitioned and there is some question on how you want to be identified, or specifically want people to know your pronouns, put them in a bio. Otherwise, can't we just be safe to assume? This is why people are freaked out. There is zero middle ground.

I don’t think it’s unreasonable to question, but it is unreasonable to ban. Especially when so much of the “questioning” is not being done in good faith, the data is far from clear, and it is all being done in the media to serve a political purpose now that the GOP dog has caught the abortion car and is getting run over by it.

I, for one, and am sick of debating matters of people’s health and livelihood at gunpoint.

When the “data is far from clear,” procedures that render children sterile or cause lifelong medicalization should be considered to be last-resort treatments. But yet not here.

Medicine hasn’t policed itself and in fact has a terrible history of policing itself (opioid crisis, etc) which is why politics has come into the void. If medicine properly self-policed, none of this would be an issue.

+1. This is the eugenics movement of the early 20th century, the Tuskeegee experiments of the 1940s, all back with a big bow.

Don’t forget that at one point in time, lobotomies were considered life saving medical care.

And they were all non-consensual treatments given without an an analysis of the risks and benefits, just like so-called “conversion therapies” which were the religious treatments of choice for gay/trans people.

You may not be smart enough to understand this, but all drugs and all treatments have side effects. The chemo that stops your slow moving breast cancer today may be planting the seeds for the leukemia that will kill you later. Your lifestyle drug may be contributing to eventual kidney failure.

The data shows that most patients are showing increased well being after being treated. Some people regret their choice. If anything it argues for better screening. But it doesn’t give you the right to substitute your judgment for theirs or their parents’ or doctor’s because someone might regret it. That argument stinks for abortion, and it stinks here too. Just because you have hang ups doesn’t mean they do.

Of all the ahistoric rampant falsehoods spouted by trans activists, the bolded has to be one of the worst. One of the absolute horrors of lobotomies, some of the eugenics movement, as well as more recent horrors like the opioid crisis was the falsified and medically-pressured “consent” that was part and parcel of “treatment” with these butcheries. This is something that is widely discussed in medical ethics, it’s not a hidden history. But in the interests of trans activism, this history of pressured consent is being wiped away, replaced with a pretend story about how all lobotomy, eugenics, opioid, etc. patients were simply never given an opportunity to have a reasoned discussion of risks and balances. That is absolutely not true and it is infuriating to see this rewriting of medical history in the interests of activism.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Have any of you who seem to seriously hate trans people and want to see them eradicated or banned entirely ever spent any time with transgender people? I'm asking in good faith. Because I think we all know *any* of us can read stuff on the internet and we should be taking that with a grain of salt. At least I hope we know that.

"Studies" only get you so far. They don't get you into the families' decision-making process, the work they do with the counselors and doctors and the whole team of people. It's a massively long process.

But either way, I know (closely) three trans people. They are happy, well-adjusted adults who just want to live their lives free of fear and hate. I don't know why people feel the need to spread such hate. Saying "except she's a he" is just hate.

I fully, 100% appreciate the concerns around how far children should be able to transition, or what the level of care is, but when you ban all "gender affirming care" you ban counseling, discussions with medical professionals, etc. They're throwing the baby out with the bathwater. What do you people expect children with gender dysphoria to do exactly? Wallow in their misery and grief? What is the plan for them? What do you propose that's actually within your level of acceptance? I'm not a trans activist by any stretch, and I see the issues that are occurring but they're occurring because we're shutting down all conversation and turning this into a zero sum game. What is the pathway forward for a child who has gender dysphoria?

I am the person who wrote about my experience with doing work with prison and immigrant advocacy. I don’t hate trans people and it is absolutely ridiculous that people like you and the nonsense hysterical PP who claimed I wanted to “snuff out” trans people (still waiting on the exact quote where I said that from that PP) phrase any raised issue of women’s rights and safety as “hating” trans people. You don’t want any dialogue, you just want 100% lockstep agreement with the most radical of trans activists (which you clearly are).

But to answer your question, which I do not think is asked in good faith because I simply don’t believe trans activists act in good faith any more, I know and am friends with multiple trans people. They are generally pretty horrified by trans activists as well, at least as far as I can tell.

If you saw yourself in that question, I think that says more about you than it did that post. I said any of you "who seem to hate trans people." If that's not you, there was no need to respond. It wasn't directed at you. I directed that question to people who are spewing hate. If you didn't spew hate, this wasn't directed at you. But you seem to think it was. I wonder why.

Well, as you or one of your compatriots already told me I was in favor of “snuffing out” trans people because I raised issues of prison and immigrant safety based on my own experience, is it any wonder why? Do you even have to ask that question when I gave the obvious answer in the post above? Of course you know the answer to that, you are just lying now.

Your dishonesty and disassembling does your argument no favors.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a trans brother who I love, and for whom it absolutely made sense for him to transition at the age of 19. There has never been a more obvious case in the world.

HOWEVER, what it happening today is scary. It's not unreasonable to question the parameters of gender treatment in children. Its a fact that many kids going in for treatment are tween girls on the autism spectrum. I know one, there has never been a single inkling of ANY gender dysphoria, but puberty freaked her out, and now she's on blockers.
The doctors IN CHARGE of transgender care, who are trans themselves, have begun to raise flags on the explosion of treatment. I urge you to read it. https://www.thefp.com/p/top-trans-doctors-blow-the-whistle

Why is this happening? Where did we cross a line into rubber stamping a decision with serious consequences?

In my children's DCPS kindergarten hallway, there is a literal poster with Malcolm Shanks on it in a hair wrap and five o'clock shadow that says, "Everybody has the right to choose their own gender by listening to their own heart and mind. Everyone gets to choose if they are a boy or a girl or neither or something else, and no one gets to choose for them."

I support the trans adults in my life. I acknowledge that being trans is real -- and rare. Introducing a five-year-old to a concept that likens gender to choosing an ice cream scoop is absolute madness.

I think if you've transitioned and there is some question on how you want to be identified, or specifically want people to know your pronouns, put them in a bio. Otherwise, can't we just be safe to assume? This is why people are freaked out. There is zero middle ground.

I don’t think it’s unreasonable to question, but it is unreasonable to ban. Especially when so much of the “questioning” is not being done in good faith, the data is far from clear, and it is all being done in the media to serve a political purpose now that the GOP dog has caught the abortion car and is getting run over by it.

I, for one, and am sick of debating matters of people’s health and livelihood at gunpoint.

When the “data is far from clear,” procedures that render children sterile or cause lifelong medicalization should be considered to be last-resort treatments. But yet not here.

Medicine hasn’t policed itself and in fact has a terrible history of policing itself (opioid crisis, etc) which is why politics has come into the void. If medicine properly self-policed, none of this would be an issue.

+1. This is the eugenics movement of the early 20th century, the Tuskeegee experiments of the 1940s, all back with a big bow.

Don’t forget that at one point in time, lobotomies were considered life saving medical care.

And they were all non-consensual treatments given without an an analysis of the risks and benefits, just like so-called “conversion therapies” which were the religious treatments of choice for gay/trans people.

You may not be smart enough to understand this, but all drugs and all treatments have side effects. The chemo that stops your slow moving breast cancer today may be planting the seeds for the leukemia that will kill you later. Your lifestyle drug may be contributing to eventual kidney failure.

The data shows that most patients are showing increased well being after being treated. Some people regret their choice. If anything it argues for better screening. But it doesn’t give you the right to substitute your judgment for theirs or their parents’ or doctor’s because someone might regret it. That argument stinks for abortion, and it stinks here too. Just because you have hang ups doesn’t mean they do.

Of all the ahistoric rampant falsehoods spouted by trans activists, the bolded has to be one of the worst. One of the absolute horrors of lobotomies, some of the eugenics movement, as well as more recent horrors like the opioid crisis was the falsified and medically-pressured “consent” that was part and parcel of “treatment” with these butcheries. This is something that is widely discussed in medical ethics, it’s not a hidden history. But in the interests of trans activism, this history of pressured consent is being wiped away, replaced with a pretend story about how all lobotomy, eugenics, opioid, etc. patients were simply never given an opportunity to have a reasoned discussion of risks and balances. That is absolutely not true and it is infuriating to see this rewriting of medical history in the interests of activism.

I don't understand why anyone is comparing medical treatment for trans patients to lobotomies or pressured consent. Just because some people on the internet are claiming that doesn't mean it's true. I'm not sure why their stories are more worthy than people who have transitioned successfully and are happy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Have any of you who seem to seriously hate trans people and want to see them eradicated or banned entirely ever spent any time with transgender people? I'm asking in good faith. Because I think we all know *any* of us can read stuff on the internet and we should be taking that with a grain of salt. At least I hope we know that.

"Studies" only get you so far. They don't get you into the families' decision-making process, the work they do with the counselors and doctors and the whole team of people. It's a massively long process.

But either way, I know (closely) three trans people. They are happy, well-adjusted adults who just want to live their lives free of fear and hate. I don't know why people feel the need to spread such hate. Saying "except she's a he" is just hate.

I fully, 100% appreciate the concerns around how far children should be able to transition, or what the level of care is, but when you ban all "gender affirming care" you ban counseling, discussions with medical professionals, etc. They're throwing the baby out with the bathwater. What do you people expect children with gender dysphoria to do exactly? Wallow in their misery and grief? What is the plan for them? What do you propose that's actually within your level of acceptance? I'm not a trans activist by any stretch, and I see the issues that are occurring but they're occurring because we're shutting down all conversation and turning this into a zero sum game. What is the pathway forward for a child who has gender dysphoria?

I am the person who wrote about my experience with doing work with prison and immigrant advocacy. I don’t hate trans people and it is absolutely ridiculous that people like you and the nonsense hysterical PP who claimed I wanted to “snuff out” trans people (still waiting on the exact quote where I said that from that PP) phrase any raised issue of women’s rights and safety as “hating” trans people. You don’t want any dialogue, you just want 100% lockstep agreement with the most radical of trans activists (which you clearly are).

But to answer your question, which I do not think is asked in good faith because I simply don’t believe trans activists act in good faith any more, I know and am friends with multiple trans people. They are generally pretty horrified by trans activists as well, at least as far as I can tell.

If you saw yourself in that question, I think that says more about you than it did that post. I said any of you "who seem to hate trans people." If that's not you, there was no need to respond. It wasn't directed at you. I directed that question to people who are spewing hate. If you didn't spew hate, this wasn't directed at you. But you seem to think it was. I wonder why.

Well, as you or one of your compatriots already told me I was in favor of “snuffing out” trans people because I raised issues of prison and immigrant safety based on my own experience, is it any wonder why? Do you even have to ask that question when I gave the obvious answer in the post above? Of course you know the answer to that, you are just lying now.

Your dishonesty and disassembling does your argument no favors.

What argument was I making exactly? (I never said anything about snuffing anyone out, nor do I condone that rhetoric.)
How did you answer the question? The question is - what do you expect children to actually do? Even adults really? What is a path forward? Because I see a lot of "ban it all", and "Of course I'd object to adults doing it too," and "he is a she" etc.
I guess my argument, if I had one, was that we need reasoned conversation, we need to be careful about "internet studies" or anything we read on the internet, and that maybe we can work with parents with trans children? But even that was met with your vitriol. I don't think these are unreasonable suggestions at all. Certainly not worth being blitzed online for, when I also have my own experiences that I'm referring to as well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Have any of you who seem to seriously hate trans people and want to see them eradicated or banned entirely ever spent any time with transgender people? I'm asking in good faith. Because I think we all know *any* of us can read stuff on the internet and we should be taking that with a grain of salt. At least I hope we know that.

"Studies" only get you so far. They don't get you into the families' decision-making process, the work they do with the counselors and doctors and the whole team of people. It's a massively long process.

But either way, I know (closely) three trans people. They are happy, well-adjusted adults who just want to live their lives free of fear and hate. I don't know why people feel the need to spread such hate. Saying "except she's a he" is just hate.

I fully, 100% appreciate the concerns around how far children should be able to transition, or what the level of care is, but when you ban all "gender affirming care" you ban counseling, discussions with medical professionals, etc. They're throwing the baby out with the bathwater. What do you people expect children with gender dysphoria to do exactly? Wallow in their misery and grief? What is the plan for them? What do you propose that's actually within your level of acceptance? I'm not a trans activist by any stretch, and I see the issues that are occurring but they're occurring because we're shutting down all conversation and turning this into a zero sum game. What is the pathway forward for a child who has gender dysphoria?

No offense, but trans people asked for this - they created this backlash. Transexuals were living their lives quietly until the young and bored trans activists suddenly wanted unfettered access to women's spaces. Then they wanted kids to have unfettered access to medical transition. The movement got baited by the GOP and you and others didn't see it coming. You asked for the baby and the bath water and it seems you might lose both.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Have any of you who seem to seriously hate trans people and want to see them eradicated or banned entirely ever spent any time with transgender people? I'm asking in good faith. Because I think we all know *any* of us can read stuff on the internet and we should be taking that with a grain of salt. At least I hope we know that.

"Studies" only get you so far. They don't get you into the families' decision-making process, the work they do with the counselors and doctors and the whole team of people. It's a massively long process.

But either way, I know (closely) three trans people. They are happy, well-adjusted adults who just want to live their lives free of fear and hate. I don't know why people feel the need to spread such hate. Saying "except she's a he" is just hate.

I fully, 100% appreciate the concerns around how far children should be able to transition, or what the level of care is, but when you ban all "gender affirming care" you ban counseling, discussions with medical professionals, etc. They're throwing the baby out with the bathwater. What do you people expect children with gender dysphoria to do exactly? Wallow in their misery and grief? What is the plan for them? What do you propose that's actually within your level of acceptance? I'm not a trans activist by any stretch, and I see the issues that are occurring but they're occurring because we're shutting down all conversation and turning this into a zero sum game. What is the pathway forward for a child who has gender dysphoria?

The vanishingly rare cases of gender dysphoria among children need intensive therapy.

+1000

Loved through it, and helped to come to terms with reality. I will never be a 6'9" black male, no matter how much I would love to be one. My options are to accept that and work with what I have, or wallow in misery for the rest of my life. I know which I'm choosing. But then, I had a strong family and parents who actually guided me in life and taught me that no, I can't be "anything" that I want to be.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Have any of you who seem to seriously hate trans people and want to see them eradicated or banned entirely ever spent any time with transgender people? I'm asking in good faith. Because I think we all know *any* of us can read stuff on the internet and we should be taking that with a grain of salt. At least I hope we know that.

"Studies" only get you so far. They don't get you into the families' decision-making process, the work they do with the counselors and doctors and the whole team of people. It's a massively long process.

But either way, I know (closely) three trans people. They are happy, well-adjusted adults who just want to live their lives free of fear and hate. I don't know why people feel the need to spread such hate. Saying "except she's a he" is just hate.

I fully, 100% appreciate the concerns around how far children should be able to transition, or what the level of care is, but when you ban all "gender affirming care" you ban counseling, discussions with medical professionals, etc. They're throwing the baby out with the bathwater. What do you people expect children with gender dysphoria to do exactly? Wallow in their misery and grief? What is the plan for them? What do you propose that's actually within your level of acceptance? I'm not a trans activist by any stretch, and I see the issues that are occurring but they're occurring because we're shutting down all conversation and turning this into a zero sum game. What is the pathway forward for a child who has gender dysphoria?

I am the person who wrote about my experience with doing work with prison and immigrant advocacy. I don’t hate trans people and it is absolutely ridiculous that people like you and the nonsense hysterical PP who claimed I wanted to “snuff out” trans people (still waiting on the exact quote where I said that from that PP) phrase any raised issue of women’s rights and safety as “hating” trans people. You don’t want any dialogue, you just want 100% lockstep agreement with the most radical of trans activists (which you clearly are).

But to answer your question, which I do not think is asked in good faith because I simply don’t believe trans activists act in good faith any more, I know and am friends with multiple trans people. They are generally pretty horrified by trans activists as well, at least as far as I can tell.

What's your "solution" for trans people? Please come out and say it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Have any of you who seem to seriously hate trans people and want to see them eradicated or banned entirely ever spent any time with transgender people? I'm asking in good faith. Because I think we all know *any* of us can read stuff on the internet and we should be taking that with a grain of salt. At least I hope we know that.

"Studies" only get you so far. They don't get you into the families' decision-making process, the work they do with the counselors and doctors and the whole team of people. It's a massively long process.

But either way, I know (closely) three trans people. They are happy, well-adjusted adults who just want to live their lives free of fear and hate. I don't know why people feel the need to spread such hate. Saying "except she's a he" is just hate.

I fully, 100% appreciate the concerns around how far children should be able to transition, or what the level of care is, but when you ban all "gender affirming care" you ban counseling, discussions with medical professionals, etc. They're throwing the baby out with the bathwater. What do you people expect children with gender dysphoria to do exactly? Wallow in their misery and grief? What is the plan for them? What do you propose that's actually within your level of acceptance? I'm not a trans activist by any stretch, and I see the issues that are occurring but they're occurring because we're shutting down all conversation and turning this into a zero sum game. What is the pathway forward for a child who has gender dysphoria?

I am the person who wrote about my experience with doing work with prison and immigrant advocacy. I don’t hate trans people and it is absolutely ridiculous that people like you and the nonsense hysterical PP who claimed I wanted to “snuff out” trans people (still waiting on the exact quote where I said that from that PP) phrase any raised issue of women’s rights and safety as “hating” trans people. You don’t want any dialogue, you just want 100% lockstep agreement with the most radical of trans activists (which you clearly are).

But to answer your question, which I do not think is asked in good faith because I simply don’t believe trans activists act in good faith any more, I know and am friends with multiple trans people. They are generally pretty horrified by trans activists as well, at least as far as I can tell.

If you saw yourself in that question, I think that says more about you than it did that post. I said any of you "who seem to hate trans people." If that's not you, there was no need to respond. It wasn't directed at you. I directed that question to people who are spewing hate. If you didn't spew hate, this wasn't directed at you. But you seem to think it was. I wonder why.

Well, as you or one of your compatriots already told me I was in favor of “snuffing out” trans people because I raised issues of prison and immigrant safety based on my own experience, is it any wonder why? Do you even have to ask that question when I gave the obvious answer in the post above? Of course you know the answer to that, you are just lying now.

Your dishonesty and disassembling does your argument no favors.

What argument was I making exactly? (I never said anything about snuffing anyone out, nor do I condone that rhetoric.)
How did you answer the question? The question is - what do you expect children to actually do? Even adults really? What is a path forward? Because I see a lot of "ban it all", and "Of course I'd object to adults doing it too," and "he is a she" etc.
I guess my argument, if I had one, was that we need reasoned conversation, we need to be careful about "internet studies" or anything we read on the internet, and that maybe we can work with parents with trans children? But even that was met with your vitriol. I don't think these are unreasonable suggestions at all. Certainly not worth being blitzed online for, when I also have my own experiences that I'm referring to as well.

The question you asked is whether I know any trans people. You ignored my answer in your rush to victimhood.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Have any of you who seem to seriously hate trans people and want to see them eradicated or banned entirely ever spent any time with transgender people? I'm asking in good faith. Because I think we all know *any* of us can read stuff on the internet and we should be taking that with a grain of salt. At least I hope we know that.

"Studies" only get you so far. They don't get you into the families' decision-making process, the work they do with the counselors and doctors and the whole team of people. It's a massively long process.

But either way, I know (closely) three trans people. They are happy, well-adjusted adults who just want to live their lives free of fear and hate. I don't know why people feel the need to spread such hate. Saying "except she's a he" is just hate.

I fully, 100% appreciate the concerns around how far children should be able to transition, or what the level of care is, but when you ban all "gender affirming care" you ban counseling, discussions with medical professionals, etc. They're throwing the baby out with the bathwater. What do you people expect children with gender dysphoria to do exactly? Wallow in their misery and grief? What is the plan for them? What do you propose that's actually within your level of acceptance? I'm not a trans activist by any stretch, and I see the issues that are occurring but they're occurring because we're shutting down all conversation and turning this into a zero sum game. What is the pathway forward for a child who has gender dysphoria?

The vanishingly rare cases of gender dysphoria among children need intensive therapy.

+1000

Loved through it, and helped to come to terms with reality. I will never be a 6'9" black male, no matter how much I would love to be one. My options are to accept that and work with what I have, or wallow in misery for the rest of my life. I know which I'm choosing. But then, I had a strong family and parents who actually guided me in life and taught me that no, I can't be "anything" that I want to be.

Be glad you’re not one. It’s a difficult life.