Do conservatives want to ban transgenderism for the same reasons they want to ban abortion?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Have any of you who seem to seriously hate trans people and want to see them eradicated or banned entirely ever spent any time with transgender people? I'm asking in good faith. Because I think we all know *any* of us can read stuff on the internet and we should be taking that with a grain of salt. At least I hope we know that.

"Studies" only get you so far. They don't get you into the families' decision-making process, the work they do with the counselors and doctors and the whole team of people. It's a massively long process.

But either way, I know (closely) three trans people. They are happy, well-adjusted adults who just want to live their lives free of fear and hate. I don't know why people feel the need to spread such hate. Saying "except she's a he" is just hate.

I fully, 100% appreciate the concerns around how far children should be able to transition, or what the level of care is, but when you ban all "gender affirming care" you ban counseling, discussions with medical professionals, etc. They're throwing the baby out with the bathwater. What do you people expect children with gender dysphoria to do exactly? Wallow in their misery and grief? What is the plan for them? What do you propose that's actually within your level of acceptance? I'm not a trans activist by any stretch, and I see the issues that are occurring but they're occurring because we're shutting down all conversation and turning this into a zero sum game. What is the pathway forward for a child who has gender dysphoria?

No offense, but trans people asked for this - they created this backlash. Transexuals were living their lives quietly until the young and bored trans activists suddenly wanted unfettered access to women's spaces. Then they wanted kids to have unfettered access to medical transition. The movement got baited by the GOP and you and others didn't see it coming. You asked for the baby and the bath water and it seems you might lose both.

Fair enough. But I am not an activist, so there is no "you didn't see it coming." I am seeking to understand what I think is a really complicated issue that I certainly see in my kids' high school more each year. I said I fully, 100% appreciate concerns about children, and I'll add that I fully, 100% appreciate concerns around the unfettered access to women's spaces. But we could have pumped the brakes and had real conversation. Instead it's all or nothing, pretty quick bans going into effect. And then you're either a trans activist or a transphobe. I don't see any middle ground.

I've posted on this issue before, and I really am in the middle - I sometimes don't even know where I fall on some of the issue because I see the extremes on both sides. But no matter how reasoned I try to be, showing concern for all angles, there's hateful comments. Who gets to decide my questions weren't in good faith? They weren't baiting anyone, they were questions. But I dared to admit I know three trans people who are happy. Did that bother the PP so badly? But if the answer is "there is no path forward for someone to be safely trans in our society, so yeah, our goal is to ban it for everyone," stop dancing around it and admit it. If not, what are the solutions? I've posted that I think medical malpractice is the way to go - it's a system already in place. If we want to hold doctors accountable, hold the bad ones accountable, allow for civil suits, extend the statute of limitation. Perfect solution? No but it allows kids and adults a path forward outside of banning their existence. There has to be a better way than that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Have any of you who seem to seriously hate trans people and want to see them eradicated or banned entirely ever spent any time with transgender people? I'm asking in good faith. Because I think we all know *any* of us can read stuff on the internet and we should be taking that with a grain of salt. At least I hope we know that.

"Studies" only get you so far. They don't get you into the families' decision-making process, the work they do with the counselors and doctors and the whole team of people. It's a massively long process.

But either way, I know (closely) three trans people. They are happy, well-adjusted adults who just want to live their lives free of fear and hate. I don't know why people feel the need to spread such hate. Saying "except she's a he" is just hate.

I fully, 100% appreciate the concerns around how far children should be able to transition, or what the level of care is, but when you ban all "gender affirming care" you ban counseling, discussions with medical professionals, etc. They're throwing the baby out with the bathwater. What do you people expect children with gender dysphoria to do exactly? Wallow in their misery and grief? What is the plan for them? What do you propose that's actually within your level of acceptance? I'm not a trans activist by any stretch, and I see the issues that are occurring but they're occurring because we're shutting down all conversation and turning this into a zero sum game. What is the pathway forward for a child who has gender dysphoria?

I am the person who wrote about my experience with doing work with prison and immigrant advocacy. I don’t hate trans people and it is absolutely ridiculous that people like you and the nonsense hysterical PP who claimed I wanted to “snuff out” trans people (still waiting on the exact quote where I said that from that PP) phrase any raised issue of women’s rights and safety as “hating” trans people. You don’t want any dialogue, you just want 100% lockstep agreement with the most radical of trans activists (which you clearly are).

But to answer your question, which I do not think is asked in good faith because I simply don’t believe trans activists act in good faith any more, I know and am friends with multiple trans people. They are generally pretty horrified by trans activists as well, at least as far as I can tell.

What's your "solution" for trans people? Please come out and say it.

Please tell me exactly—word for word—where I said I was promoting “snuffing out” trans people (since those are your words) and then I will deal with your ridiculous question. But I want to see your answer first.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Have any of you who seem to seriously hate trans people and want to see them eradicated or banned entirely ever spent any time with transgender people? I'm asking in good faith. Because I think we all know *any* of us can read stuff on the internet and we should be taking that with a grain of salt. At least I hope we know that.

"Studies" only get you so far. They don't get you into the families' decision-making process, the work they do with the counselors and doctors and the whole team of people. It's a massively long process.

But either way, I know (closely) three trans people. They are happy, well-adjusted adults who just want to live their lives free of fear and hate. I don't know why people feel the need to spread such hate. Saying "except she's a he" is just hate.

I fully, 100% appreciate the concerns around how far children should be able to transition, or what the level of care is, but when you ban all "gender affirming care" you ban counseling, discussions with medical professionals, etc. They're throwing the baby out with the bathwater. What do you people expect children with gender dysphoria to do exactly? Wallow in their misery and grief? What is the plan for them? What do you propose that's actually within your level of acceptance? I'm not a trans activist by any stretch, and I see the issues that are occurring but they're occurring because we're shutting down all conversation and turning this into a zero sum game. What is the pathway forward for a child who has gender dysphoria?

I am the person who wrote about my experience with doing work with prison and immigrant advocacy. I don’t hate trans people and it is absolutely ridiculous that people like you and the nonsense hysterical PP who claimed I wanted to “snuff out” trans people (still waiting on the exact quote where I said that from that PP) phrase any raised issue of women’s rights and safety as “hating” trans people. You don’t want any dialogue, you just want 100% lockstep agreement with the most radical of trans activists (which you clearly are).

But to answer your question, which I do not think is asked in good faith because I simply don’t believe trans activists act in good faith any more, I know and am friends with multiple trans people. They are generally pretty horrified by trans activists as well, at least as far as I can tell.

If you saw yourself in that question, I think that says more about you than it did that post. I said any of you "who seem to hate trans people." If that's not you, there was no need to respond. It wasn't directed at you. I directed that question to people who are spewing hate. If you didn't spew hate, this wasn't directed at you. But you seem to think it was. I wonder why.

Well, as you or one of your compatriots already told me I was in favor of “snuffing out” trans people because I raised issues of prison and immigrant safety based on my own experience, is it any wonder why? Do you even have to ask that question when I gave the obvious answer in the post above? Of course you know the answer to that, you are just lying now.

Your dishonesty and disassembling does your argument no favors.

What argument was I making exactly? (I never said anything about snuffing anyone out, nor do I condone that rhetoric.)
How did you answer the question? The question is - what do you expect children to actually do? Even adults really? What is a path forward? Because I see a lot of "ban it all", and "Of course I'd object to adults doing it too," and "he is a she" etc.
I guess my argument, if I had one, was that we need reasoned conversation, we need to be careful about "internet studies" or anything we read on the internet, and that maybe we can work with parents with trans children? But even that was met with your vitriol. I don't think these are unreasonable suggestions at all. Certainly not worth being blitzed online for, when I also have my own experiences that I'm referring to as well.

The question you asked is whether I know any trans people. You ignored my answer in your rush to victimhood.

And you ignored the entire last paragraph of the post with all of the questions about a path forward. What is your problem lady? Damn, there was nothing unreasonable in that post. Nothing at all, but you just come out swinging. I'm seeking understanding. You're just an angry troll at this point.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Have any of you who seem to seriously hate trans people and want to see them eradicated or banned entirely ever spent any time with transgender people? I'm asking in good faith. Because I think we all know *any* of us can read stuff on the internet and we should be taking that with a grain of salt. At least I hope we know that.

"Studies" only get you so far. They don't get you into the families' decision-making process, the work they do with the counselors and doctors and the whole team of people. It's a massively long process.

But either way, I know (closely) three trans people. They are happy, well-adjusted adults who just want to live their lives free of fear and hate. I don't know why people feel the need to spread such hate. Saying "except she's a he" is just hate.

I fully, 100% appreciate the concerns around how far children should be able to transition, or what the level of care is, but when you ban all "gender affirming care" you ban counseling, discussions with medical professionals, etc. They're throwing the baby out with the bathwater. What do you people expect children with gender dysphoria to do exactly? Wallow in their misery and grief? What is the plan for them? What do you propose that's actually within your level of acceptance? I'm not a trans activist by any stretch, and I see the issues that are occurring but they're occurring because we're shutting down all conversation and turning this into a zero sum game. What is the pathway forward for a child who has gender dysphoria?

I am the person who wrote about my experience with doing work with prison and immigrant advocacy. I don’t hate trans people and it is absolutely ridiculous that people like you and the nonsense hysterical PP who claimed I wanted to “snuff out” trans people (still waiting on the exact quote where I said that from that PP) phrase any raised issue of women’s rights and safety as “hating” trans people. You don’t want any dialogue, you just want 100% lockstep agreement with the most radical of trans activists (which you clearly are).

But to answer your question, which I do not think is asked in good faith because I simply don’t believe trans activists act in good faith any more, I know and am friends with multiple trans people. They are generally pretty horrified by trans activists as well, at least as far as I can tell.

If you saw yourself in that question, I think that says more about you than it did that post. I said any of you "who seem to hate trans people." If that's not you, there was no need to respond. It wasn't directed at you. I directed that question to people who are spewing hate. If you didn't spew hate, this wasn't directed at you. But you seem to think it was. I wonder why.

Well, as you or one of your compatriots already told me I was in favor of “snuffing out” trans people because I raised issues of prison and immigrant safety based on my own experience, is it any wonder why? Do you even have to ask that question when I gave the obvious answer in the post above? Of course you know the answer to that, you are just lying now.

Your dishonesty and disassembling does your argument no favors.

What argument was I making exactly? (I never said anything about snuffing anyone out, nor do I condone that rhetoric.)
How did you answer the question? The question is - what do you expect children to actually do? Even adults really? What is a path forward? Because I see a lot of "ban it all", and "Of course I'd object to adults doing it too," and "he is a she" etc.
I guess my argument, if I had one, was that we need reasoned conversation, we need to be careful about "internet studies" or anything we read on the internet, and that maybe we can work with parents with trans children? But even that was met with your vitriol. I don't think these are unreasonable suggestions at all. Certainly not worth being blitzed online for, when I also have my own experiences that I'm referring to as well.

The question you asked is whether I know any trans people. You ignored my answer in your rush to victimhood.

And you ignored the entire last paragraph of the post with all of the questions about a path forward. What is your problem lady? Damn, there was nothing unreasonable in that post. Nothing at all, but you just come out swinging. I'm seeking understanding. You're just an angry troll at this point.

No. You don’t seek understanding. You seek validation, and you do it over and over in threads like this, preferencing your own need to feel “balanced” over very difficult issues of safety, consent, and safeguarding. You are the troll: you post all the time about how you need a middle ground, unwilling to take a stand, unwilling to stand up for rightness. Your ego is more important than whether others are harmed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Have any of you who seem to seriously hate trans people and want to see them eradicated or banned entirely ever spent any time with transgender people? I'm asking in good faith. Because I think we all know *any* of us can read stuff on the internet and we should be taking that with a grain of salt. At least I hope we know that.

"Studies" only get you so far. They don't get you into the families' decision-making process, the work they do with the counselors and doctors and the whole team of people. It's a massively long process.

But either way, I know (closely) three trans people. They are happy, well-adjusted adults who just want to live their lives free of fear and hate. I don't know why people feel the need to spread such hate. Saying "except she's a he" is just hate.

I fully, 100% appreciate the concerns around how far children should be able to transition, or what the level of care is, but when you ban all "gender affirming care" you ban counseling, discussions with medical professionals, etc. They're throwing the baby out with the bathwater. What do you people expect children with gender dysphoria to do exactly? Wallow in their misery and grief? What is the plan for them? What do you propose that's actually within your level of acceptance? I'm not a trans activist by any stretch, and I see the issues that are occurring but they're occurring because we're shutting down all conversation and turning this into a zero sum game. What is the pathway forward for a child who has gender dysphoria?

The vanishingly rare cases of gender dysphoria among children need intensive therapy.

But isn't that therapy addressing gender, which is the "baby being thrown out with the bath water." The bans are also banning that. Unless you're referring to some sort of trans conversion therapy? Because otherwise, intensive therapy is part of gender-affirming care which is now prohibited in a lot of places.

Link to the law banning therapy for children alleged to have gender dysphoria.

I already know the answer because, surprise, I’m a lawyer. I’ve personally read all the bills that have passed. Absolutely no law whatsoever passed to ban administering wrong-sex hormones and surgeries to children is also banning gender therapy. In fact, most of these laws expressly state that therapy must be the FIRST line of treatment for children. Your activist lies are a disgrace.

The people seeking to ban therapy are you gender liars who claim that any kind of therapy interrogating a child’s alleged belief that they are a different sex amounts to “conversion therapy.” Your transgender lobby has so badly reduced the role of therapists that they are now banned in many states and some countries from providing therapy to alleged gender dysphoric children. All they can do under YOUR side’s rules is affirm and summarily provide a letter sending the child to the local doctor (really, butcher) for puberty blockers, hormones, and surgeries.

When you need to lie in order to gin up undeserved sympathy for your position, then you know you’re on the wrong side.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Have any of you who seem to seriously hate trans people and want to see them eradicated or banned entirely ever spent any time with transgender people? I'm asking in good faith. Because I think we all know *any* of us can read stuff on the internet and we should be taking that with a grain of salt. At least I hope we know that.

"Studies" only get you so far. They don't get you into the families' decision-making process, the work they do with the counselors and doctors and the whole team of people. It's a massively long process.

But either way, I know (closely) three trans people. They are happy, well-adjusted adults who just want to live their lives free of fear and hate. I don't know why people feel the need to spread such hate. Saying "except she's a he" is just hate.

I fully, 100% appreciate the concerns around how far children should be able to transition, or what the level of care is, but when you ban all "gender affirming care" you ban counseling, discussions with medical professionals, etc. They're throwing the baby out with the bathwater. What do you people expect children with gender dysphoria to do exactly? Wallow in their misery and grief? What is the plan for them? What do you propose that's actually within your level of acceptance? I'm not a trans activist by any stretch, and I see the issues that are occurring but they're occurring because we're shutting down all conversation and turning this into a zero sum game. What is the pathway forward for a child who has gender dysphoria?

No offense, but trans people asked for this - they created this backlash. Transexuals were living their lives quietly until the young and bored trans activists suddenly wanted unfettered access to women's spaces. Then they wanted kids to have unfettered access to medical transition. The movement got baited by the GOP and you and others didn't see it coming. You asked for the baby and the bath water and it seems you might lose both.

+1000. The thread should end here. This is the take-home lesson. Activist greed and cultish adherence to senseless ideologies is what has led the trans movement to a worldwide backlash and they still haven’t learned. It will only get worse for them, as it should.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Have any of you who seem to seriously hate trans people and want to see them eradicated or banned entirely ever spent any time with transgender people? I'm asking in good faith. Because I think we all know *any* of us can read stuff on the internet and we should be taking that with a grain of salt. At least I hope we know that.

"Studies" only get you so far. They don't get you into the families' decision-making process, the work they do with the counselors and doctors and the whole team of people. It's a massively long process.

But either way, I know (closely) three trans people. They are happy, well-adjusted adults who just want to live their lives free of fear and hate. I don't know why people feel the need to spread such hate. Saying "except she's a he" is just hate.

I fully, 100% appreciate the concerns around how far children should be able to transition, or what the level of care is, but when you ban all "gender affirming care" you ban counseling, discussions with medical professionals, etc. They're throwing the baby out with the bathwater. What do you people expect children with gender dysphoria to do exactly? Wallow in their misery and grief? What is the plan for them? What do you propose that's actually within your level of acceptance? I'm not a trans activist by any stretch, and I see the issues that are occurring but they're occurring because we're shutting down all conversation and turning this into a zero sum game. What is the pathway forward for a child who has gender dysphoria?

The vanishingly rare cases of gender dysphoria among children need intensive therapy.

But isn't that therapy addressing gender, which is the "baby being thrown out with the bath water." The bans are also banning that. Unless you're referring to some sort of trans conversion therapy? Because otherwise, intensive therapy is part of gender-affirming care which is now prohibited in a lot of places.

Link to the law banning therapy for children alleged to have gender dysphoria.

I already know the answer because, surprise, I’m a lawyer. I’ve personally read all the bills that have passed. Absolutely no law whatsoever passed to ban administering wrong-sex hormones and surgeries to children is also banning gender therapy. In fact, most of these laws expressly state that therapy must be the FIRST line of treatment for children. Your activist lies are a disgrace.

The people seeking to ban therapy are you gender liars who claim that any kind of therapy interrogating a child’s alleged belief that they are a different sex amounts to “conversion therapy.” Your transgender lobby has so badly reduced the role of therapists that they are now banned in many states and some countries from providing therapy to alleged gender dysphoric children. All they can do under YOUR side’s rules is affirm and summarily provide a letter sending the child to the local doctor (really, butcher) for puberty blockers, hormones, and surgeries.

When you need to lie in order to gin up undeserved sympathy for your position, then you know you’re on the wrong side.

+1

I have lost patience with the liars. And the mealy-mouthed PP is among the worst.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Have any of you who seem to seriously hate trans people and want to see them eradicated or banned entirely ever spent any time with transgender people? I'm asking in good faith. Because I think we all know *any* of us can read stuff on the internet and we should be taking that with a grain of salt. At least I hope we know that.

"Studies" only get you so far. They don't get you into the families' decision-making process, the work they do with the counselors and doctors and the whole team of people. It's a massively long process.

But either way, I know (closely) three trans people. They are happy, well-adjusted adults who just want to live their lives free of fear and hate. I don't know why people feel the need to spread such hate. Saying "except she's a he" is just hate.

I fully, 100% appreciate the concerns around how far children should be able to transition, or what the level of care is, but when you ban all "gender affirming care" you ban counseling, discussions with medical professionals, etc. They're throwing the baby out with the bathwater. What do you people expect children with gender dysphoria to do exactly? Wallow in their misery and grief? What is the plan for them? What do you propose that's actually within your level of acceptance? I'm not a trans activist by any stretch, and I see the issues that are occurring but they're occurring because we're shutting down all conversation and turning this into a zero sum game. What is the pathway forward for a child who has gender dysphoria?

I am the person who wrote about my experience with doing work with prison and immigrant advocacy. I don’t hate trans people and it is absolutely ridiculous that people like you and the nonsense hysterical PP who claimed I wanted to “snuff out” trans people (still waiting on the exact quote where I said that from that PP) phrase any raised issue of women’s rights and safety as “hating” trans people. You don’t want any dialogue, you just want 100% lockstep agreement with the most radical of trans activists (which you clearly are).

But to answer your question, which I do not think is asked in good faith because I simply don’t believe trans activists act in good faith any more, I know and am friends with multiple trans people. They are generally pretty horrified by trans activists as well, at least as far as I can tell.

If you saw yourself in that question, I think that says more about you than it did that post. I said any of you "who seem to hate trans people." If that's not you, there was no need to respond. It wasn't directed at you. I directed that question to people who are spewing hate. If you didn't spew hate, this wasn't directed at you. But you seem to think it was. I wonder why.

Well, as you or one of your compatriots already told me I was in favor of “snuffing out” trans people because I raised issues of prison and immigrant safety based on my own experience, is it any wonder why? Do you even have to ask that question when I gave the obvious answer in the post above? Of course you know the answer to that, you are just lying now.

Your dishonesty and disassembling does your argument no favors.

What argument was I making exactly? (I never said anything about snuffing anyone out, nor do I condone that rhetoric.)
How did you answer the question? The question is - what do you expect children to actually do? Even adults really? What is a path forward? Because I see a lot of "ban it all", and "Of course I'd object to adults doing it too," and "he is a she" etc.
I guess my argument, if I had one, was that we need reasoned conversation, we need to be careful about "internet studies" or anything we read on the internet, and that maybe we can work with parents with trans children? But even that was met with your vitriol. I don't think these are unreasonable suggestions at all. Certainly not worth being blitzed online for, when I also have my own experiences that I'm referring to as well.

The question you asked is whether I know any trans people. You ignored my answer in your rush to victimhood.

And you ignored the entire last paragraph of the post with all of the questions about a path forward. What is your problem lady? Damn, there was nothing unreasonable in that post. Nothing at all, but you just come out swinging. I'm seeking understanding. You're just an angry troll at this point.

No. You don’t seek understanding. You seek validation, and you do it over and over in threads like this, preferencing your own need to feel “balanced” over very difficult issues of safety, consent, and safeguarding. You are the troll: you post all the time about how you need a middle ground, unwilling to take a stand, unwilling to stand up for rightness. Your ego is more important than whether others are harmed.

Ego? On an anonymous message board? I've posted exactly one other time about trying to account for both sides on a complicated issue, so how is that validation? Validating what exactly? Because I'm not standing up for you and your opinion without question I'm unwilling to stand up for "rightness?" You don't see the harm *you* are causing, but willful blindness is par for the course for you and "your kind" (See what I'm doing now?). You don't know any trans people. I call complete BS on that. I didn't say one negative thing about you or your post, but you come out swinging and call other people harmful? Now you can suck off with your hate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Have any of you who seem to seriously hate trans people and want to see them eradicated or banned entirely ever spent any time with transgender people? I'm asking in good faith. Because I think we all know *any* of us can read stuff on the internet and we should be taking that with a grain of salt. At least I hope we know that.

"Studies" only get you so far. They don't get you into the families' decision-making process, the work they do with the counselors and doctors and the whole team of people. It's a massively long process.

But either way, I know (closely) three trans people. They are happy, well-adjusted adults who just want to live their lives free of fear and hate. I don't know why people feel the need to spread such hate. Saying "except she's a he" is just hate.

I fully, 100% appreciate the concerns around how far children should be able to transition, or what the level of care is, but when you ban all "gender affirming care" you ban counseling, discussions with medical professionals, etc. They're throwing the baby out with the bathwater. What do you people expect children with gender dysphoria to do exactly? Wallow in their misery and grief? What is the plan for them? What do you propose that's actually within your level of acceptance? I'm not a trans activist by any stretch, and I see the issues that are occurring but they're occurring because we're shutting down all conversation and turning this into a zero sum game. What is the pathway forward for a child who has gender dysphoria?

The vanishingly rare cases of gender dysphoria among children need intensive therapy.

But isn't that therapy addressing gender, which is the "baby being thrown out with the bath water." The bans are also banning that. Unless you're referring to some sort of trans conversion therapy? Because otherwise, intensive therapy is part of gender-affirming care which is now prohibited in a lot of places.

Link to the law banning therapy for children alleged to have gender dysphoria.

I already know the answer because, surprise, I’m a lawyer. I’ve personally read all the bills that have passed. Absolutely no law whatsoever passed to ban administering wrong-sex hormones and surgeries to children is also banning gender therapy. In fact, most of these laws expressly state that therapy must be the FIRST line of treatment for children. Your activist lies are a disgrace.

The people seeking to ban therapy are you gender liars who claim that any kind of therapy interrogating a child’s alleged belief that they are a different sex amounts to “conversion therapy.” Your transgender lobby has so badly reduced the role of therapists that they are now banned in many states and some countries from providing therapy to alleged gender dysphoric children. All they can do under YOUR side’s rules is affirm and summarily provide a letter sending the child to the local doctor (really, butcher) for puberty blockers, hormones, and surgeries.

When you need to lie in order to gin up undeserved sympathy for your position, then you know you’re on the wrong side.

I was referring to the school counseling route. For some children, that's all they're going to get because parents won't take them to outside counselors. That's absolutely de facto prohibited where I live, because the kids can't speak to a school counselor without parents being notified, as they can for every other issues they wish to discuss. That's not going to be safe for some kids.

But there's no conversing with you. You are all a hateful bunch.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Have any of you who seem to seriously hate trans people and want to see them eradicated or banned entirely ever spent any time with transgender people? I'm asking in good faith. Because I think we all know *any* of us can read stuff on the internet and we should be taking that with a grain of salt. At least I hope we know that.

"Studies" only get you so far. They don't get you into the families' decision-making process, the work they do with the counselors and doctors and the whole team of people. It's a massively long process.

But either way, I know (closely) three trans people. They are happy, well-adjusted adults who just want to live their lives free of fear and hate. I don't know why people feel the need to spread such hate. Saying "except she's a he" is just hate.

I fully, 100% appreciate the concerns around how far children should be able to transition, or what the level of care is, but when you ban all "gender affirming care" you ban counseling, discussions with medical professionals, etc. They're throwing the baby out with the bathwater. What do you people expect children with gender dysphoria to do exactly? Wallow in their misery and grief? What is the plan for them? What do you propose that's actually within your level of acceptance? I'm not a trans activist by any stretch, and I see the issues that are occurring but they're occurring because we're shutting down all conversation and turning this into a zero sum game. What is the pathway forward for a child who has gender dysphoria?

No offense, but trans people asked for this - they created this backlash. Transexuals were living their lives quietly until the young and bored trans activists suddenly wanted unfettered access to women's spaces. Then they wanted kids to have unfettered access to medical transition. The movement got baited by the GOP and you and others didn't see it coming. You asked for the baby and the bath water and it seems you might lose both.

No, they just wanted to use the bathroom in peace, and the GOP started making laws so they could be the new group it was acceptable to be mean to. Blaming the victim, using outdated language considered offensive by many in the community...it's clear you're not actually concerned about the trans community-you're just justifying your intolerance.

[Anonymous]

So much hate against trans people here. Is it coming from a place of fear or is it just political scoring? Hard to tell.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Have any of you who seem to seriously hate trans people and want to see them eradicated or banned entirely ever spent any time with transgender people? I'm asking in good faith. Because I think we all know *any* of us can read stuff on the internet and we should be taking that with a grain of salt. At least I hope we know that.

"Studies" only get you so far. They don't get you into the families' decision-making process, the work they do with the counselors and doctors and the whole team of people. It's a massively long process.

But either way, I know (closely) three trans people. They are happy, well-adjusted adults who just want to live their lives free of fear and hate. I don't know why people feel the need to spread such hate. Saying "except she's a he" is just hate.

I fully, 100% appreciate the concerns around how far children should be able to transition, or what the level of care is, but when you ban all "gender affirming care" you ban counseling, discussions with medical professionals, etc. They're throwing the baby out with the bathwater. What do you people expect children with gender dysphoria to do exactly? Wallow in their misery and grief? What is the plan for them? What do you propose that's actually within your level of acceptance? I'm not a trans activist by any stretch, and I see the issues that are occurring but they're occurring because we're shutting down all conversation and turning this into a zero sum game. What is the pathway forward for a child who has gender dysphoria?

I am the person who wrote about my experience with doing work with prison and immigrant advocacy. I don’t hate trans people and it is absolutely ridiculous that people like you and the nonsense hysterical PP who claimed I wanted to “snuff out” trans people (still waiting on the exact quote where I said that from that PP) phrase any raised issue of women’s rights and safety as “hating” trans people. You don’t want any dialogue, you just want 100% lockstep agreement with the most radical of trans activists (which you clearly are).

But to answer your question, which I do not think is asked in good faith because I simply don’t believe trans activists act in good faith any more, I know and am friends with multiple trans people. They are generally pretty horrified by trans activists as well, at least as far as I can tell.

If you saw yourself in that question, I think that says more about you than it did that post. I said any of you "who seem to hate trans people." If that's not you, there was no need to respond. It wasn't directed at you. I directed that question to people who are spewing hate. If you didn't spew hate, this wasn't directed at you. But you seem to think it was. I wonder why.

Well, as you or one of your compatriots already told me I was in favor of “snuffing out” trans people because I raised issues of prison and immigrant safety based on my own experience, is it any wonder why? Do you even have to ask that question when I gave the obvious answer in the post above? Of course you know the answer to that, you are just lying now.

Your dishonesty and disassembling does your argument no favors.

What argument was I making exactly? (I never said anything about snuffing anyone out, nor do I condone that rhetoric.)
How did you answer the question? The question is - what do you expect children to actually do? Even adults really? What is a path forward? Because I see a lot of "ban it all", and "Of course I'd object to adults doing it too," and "he is a she" etc.
I guess my argument, if I had one, was that we need reasoned conversation, we need to be careful about "internet studies" or anything we read on the internet, and that maybe we can work with parents with trans children? But even that was met with your vitriol. I don't think these are unreasonable suggestions at all. Certainly not worth being blitzed online for, when I also have my own experiences that I'm referring to as well.

The question you asked is whether I know any trans people. You ignored my answer in your rush to victimhood.

And you ignored the entire last paragraph of the post with all of the questions about a path forward. What is your problem lady? Damn, there was nothing unreasonable in that post. Nothing at all, but you just come out swinging. I'm seeking understanding. You're just an angry troll at this point.

No. You don’t seek understanding. You seek validation, and you do it over and over in threads like this, preferencing your own need to feel “balanced” over very difficult issues of safety, consent, and safeguarding. You are the troll: you post all the time about how you need a middle ground, unwilling to take a stand, unwilling to stand up for rightness. Your ego is more important than whether others are harmed.

Ego? On an anonymous message board? I've posted exactly one other time about trying to account for both sides on a complicated issue, so how is that validation? Validating what exactly? Because I'm not standing up for you and your opinion without question I'm unwilling to stand up for "rightness?" You don't see the harm *you* are causing, but willful blindness is par for the course for you and "your kind" (See what I'm doing now?). You don't know any trans people. I call complete BS on that. I didn't say one negative thing about you or your post, but you come out swinging and call other people harmful? Now you can suck off with your hate.

You are a hateful egotistical narcissist. And I’m done with people like you, who prioritize your own ego over the safety of women and children. The world is waking up to your lies, fortunately. We see your hideous narcissism.

And yes, I know multiple trans people well. But of course you don’t believe me, because your ego won’t allow it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Have any of you who seem to seriously hate trans people and want to see them eradicated or banned entirely ever spent any time with transgender people? I'm asking in good faith. Because I think we all know *any* of us can read stuff on the internet and we should be taking that with a grain of salt. At least I hope we know that.

"Studies" only get you so far. They don't get you into the families' decision-making process, the work they do with the counselors and doctors and the whole team of people. It's a massively long process.

But either way, I know (closely) three trans people. They are happy, well-adjusted adults who just want to live their lives free of fear and hate. I don't know why people feel the need to spread such hate. Saying "except she's a he" is just hate.

I fully, 100% appreciate the concerns around how far children should be able to transition, or what the level of care is, but when you ban all "gender affirming care" you ban counseling, discussions with medical professionals, etc. They're throwing the baby out with the bathwater. What do you people expect children with gender dysphoria to do exactly? Wallow in their misery and grief? What is the plan for them? What do you propose that's actually within your level of acceptance? I'm not a trans activist by any stretch, and I see the issues that are occurring but they're occurring because we're shutting down all conversation and turning this into a zero sum game. What is the pathway forward for a child who has gender dysphoria?

I am the person who wrote about my experience with doing work with prison and immigrant advocacy. I don’t hate trans people and it is absolutely ridiculous that people like you and the nonsense hysterical PP who claimed I wanted to “snuff out” trans people (still waiting on the exact quote where I said that from that PP) phrase any raised issue of women’s rights and safety as “hating” trans people. You don’t want any dialogue, you just want 100% lockstep agreement with the most radical of trans activists (which you clearly are).

But to answer your question, which I do not think is asked in good faith because I simply don’t believe trans activists act in good faith any more, I know and am friends with multiple trans people. They are generally pretty horrified by trans activists as well, at least as far as I can tell.

If you saw yourself in that question, I think that says more about you than it did that post. I said any of you "who seem to hate trans people." If that's not you, there was no need to respond. It wasn't directed at you. I directed that question to people who are spewing hate. If you didn't spew hate, this wasn't directed at you. But you seem to think it was. I wonder why.

Well, as you or one of your compatriots already told me I was in favor of “snuffing out” trans people because I raised issues of prison and immigrant safety based on my own experience, is it any wonder why? Do you even have to ask that question when I gave the obvious answer in the post above? Of course you know the answer to that, you are just lying now.

Your dishonesty and disassembling does your argument no favors.

What argument was I making exactly? (I never said anything about snuffing anyone out, nor do I condone that rhetoric.)
How did you answer the question? The question is - what do you expect children to actually do? Even adults really? What is a path forward? Because I see a lot of "ban it all", and "Of course I'd object to adults doing it too," and "he is a she" etc.
I guess my argument, if I had one, was that we need reasoned conversation, we need to be careful about "internet studies" or anything we read on the internet, and that maybe we can work with parents with trans children? But even that was met with your vitriol. I don't think these are unreasonable suggestions at all. Certainly not worth being blitzed online for, when I also have my own experiences that I'm referring to as well.

The question you asked is whether I know any trans people. You ignored my answer in your rush to victimhood.

And you ignored the entire last paragraph of the post with all of the questions about a path forward. What is your problem lady? Damn, there was nothing unreasonable in that post. Nothing at all, but you just come out swinging. I'm seeking understanding. You're just an angry troll at this point.

No. You don’t seek understanding. You seek validation, and you do it over and over in threads like this, preferencing your own need to feel “balanced” over very difficult issues of safety, consent, and safeguarding. You are the troll: you post all the time about how you need a middle ground, unwilling to take a stand, unwilling to stand up for rightness. Your ego is more important than whether others are harmed.

Ego? On an anonymous message board? I've posted exactly one other time about trying to account for both sides on a complicated issue, so how is that validation? Validating what exactly? Because I'm not standing up for you and your opinion without question I'm unwilling to stand up for "rightness?" You don't see the harm *you* are causing, but willful blindness is par for the course for you and "your kind" (See what I'm doing now?). You don't know any trans people. I call complete BS on that. I didn't say one negative thing about you or your post, but you come out swinging and call other people harmful? Now you can suck off with your hate.

You are a hateful egotistical narcissist. And I’m done with people like you, who prioritize your own ego over the safety of women and children. The world is waking up to your lies, fortunately. We see your hideous narcissism.

And yes, I know multiple trans people well. But of course you don’t believe me, because your ego won’t allow it.

No one believes that any trans person would come within 10 feet of such a hate monger. You are so full of shit. Try some therapy for your anger management. You need it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So much hate against trans people here. Is it coming from a place of fear or is it just political scoring? Hard to tell.

It’s coming from a place of hate. If you don’t fall in with them lock step you’re a hateful narcissist with huge egos apparently. Gotta get these sheeple in line.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So much hate against trans people here. Is it coming from a place of fear or is it just political scoring? Hard to tell.

Seems to me like what’s really rising on DCUM is vicious and untrammeled misogyny. Trans people are treated with kid gloves compared to how women are treated.