I don't think I can be friends with moms who drive huge SUVs

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can’t believe it took this long for someone to note the disconnect between the wealthy, conformist moms and ALDIs. But in the event the post is real, I’m not a perfect person, and neither are you OP. And guess what, I have lots of imperfect friends. Individuals sometimes make choices that conflict with others’ values. That same gas guzzler might be the first person to show up at your house with a meal if you were seriously sick. Reducing people to one choice is a an awfully simplistic and unsatisfying way to go through life. You’re going to rule out a whole lot of people who might enrich your life. That said, if it’s a dealbreaker, you don’t have to hang out with them. Just know that each of those people you’re dismissing could be the person who alerts you later when your teen is in emotional trouble, or who is raising significant funds for another cause you care about. People are complicated.

Op here. That's precisely WHY I thought it was funny three moms with the same car were at Aldi. Aldi is closer to us. Whole foods are about 15 minutes away. Aldi parking lot is also easier for their big fat SUVs to sit. No kids were with any of them.

The trolling is getting old. You first said that you overheard the kids talking about their vacations in the checkout line. Now you say that they didn’t have kids with them at all. I understand it’s amusing for you to make up imaginary people to hate on anonymously online, but you must understand that it’s also pretty sad.

What's said and you probably are one of the huge SUV owners, and that's guilt talking. Listen to it.

[Anonymous]

Honestly, OP would have been better off moving to Takoma Park or somewhere similar. Not sure what she was expecting in a place like McLean. I couldn't stand living in a place full of self-righteous crunchy liberals, so I didn't move there and moved to north Arlington. Not exactly rocket surgery.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So move back to your apartment if you care so much. But nope you move to your McMansion in McLean and then get angry at soccer moms who are living their life. Like what even is your post.

Doubt she had friends when she was renting.

I had a ton of friends who weren't flashy. My immediate community isn't like this. There's no space for a huge suv in our town house community. It's the neighborhoods around us—the birthday party moms.

Wtf is a "birthday party mom"? So now parties are bad too, not just big cars?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:I don’t care about the SUV’s specifically but yes these types of people are why I don’t really have good friends. I can’t relate to them at all - we are friendly acquaintances and that’s it.

I feel the same about the ski trips out west, home remodels, country clubs, private schools, etc. It’s just never ending for many of these families and I feel like an alien visiting a foreign land I don’t understand. And I’ve been here 15 years.

This, I don't get any of it. It's a values system I wasn't raised with and don't understand.

The thing in the OP I most relate to is that feeling when you notice that a bunch of the people around you all have the exact same thing, like there was a memo that went out. It reminds me of this one woman on my neighborhood listserv who sometimes posts things like, "Ok y'all, what shoes are we all buying for the littles now? Are Natives still in or have people found something better?" It is always extremely jarring to me because she's not asking for a recommendation, she wants to know what "everyone" is doing so that she can do it too. This is such a strange way to go through life, it would not occur to me. When I see her posts, I always click on them so I can read them and the responses, it's like being Jane Goodall or something. Fascinating, but something I observe from a distance.

PP and yes this exactly. It’s a whole mindset, not just the SUV. I feel like such an imposter and so out of place. I think “my people” are probably somewhere in rural New England but I hate the cold and winter so no idea where I will go when my kids finish HS. Thank goodness my DH gets it and gets me. If not I would be totally lost.

Meh, I feel like the shoe example sounds like something I would say to my friends. Not bc I want to be the same, but bc I know they have probably done some research to figure out what the best shoes are for kids and I want to reap the benefits of that

Nah, that's still "wanting to be the same" but just subconscious. You are outsourcing your decision making to other people because you assume they know better, or because you don't want to put in the effort yourself. You might tell yourself, "this isn't about my kids having the same shoes, or us driving the same car, or going on the same vacations as everyone we know -- it's just smart outsourcing." But the thing you are outsourcing is not "research" it's "thinking". And people outsource thinking so they don't have to think for themselves.

Plus there is safety in doing what others do because then if you make a mistake, it's the same mistake everyone made. If it turns out that SUVs are hella dangerous and destroying the environment, oh well, everyone I know did the same shitty thing so no one can get mad at me, personally. If it turns out those rubber shoes are made by enslaved children in Asia, oh well, at least I'm not the only one. And so on. You are hiding in the safety of numbers, which is the exact same thing all these other people are doing.

It's groupthink. You're a sheep. Maybe you are fine with it, but it's what you are.

Every time you call someone a “sheep,” you embarrass yourself. If that’s your goal, by all means, keep going.

It’s hilarious to me that you felt so implicated by this comment from many pages ago that I had to reply, but that you have no argument at all to refute it. You saw yourself in this description, became incensed, and all you could muster was “you embarrass yourself.” I’m dying

+1

NP here. This long thread is spot on, and most definitely group think. Those women think and act alike and are afraid to deviate from what others in the neighborhood are doing. Like 5th graders, but grown up, only physically, not mentally. So very sad, and also why I have nothing in common with grown women who can't think for themselves. Actually, they should be the ones who should be embarrassed, but they are too dense.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you cared about the environment, you'd still be living in an apartment in the city where you can walk everywhere. Hypocrite.

THIS.

Ok, not op here but I’m choosing to raise my kid in the city, in an apartment, and rarely drive because I think we all need to do our part to reduce our reliance on fossil fuels.

I also think giant SUVs are a pox on humanity.

So now what’s your excuse?

Do you fly on airplanes?

Aviation is the most climate-intensive form of transport.

It reminds me of when Meghan and Harry got serious sh*t for shading everyone about their lack of environmentalism and then were called out for flying in private jets everywhere.

I know this is going to totally blow you away, but some of us arguing against SUVs/giant houses/very consumption-focused lifestyles not only don't have private planes, but don't fly often. I fly maybe once a year. And some years not at all. I live in an apartment. My family owns one 10 year old car that we drive maybe once a week to go hiking and do a big grocery haul. We live in a neighborhood with public transportation and walkable services, and we support politicians and policies that make our lifestyle more accessible for more people. And we are not rich ourselves -- HHI of 140k, with one parent working part-time to maximize time with kids and also make it possible to do things like make more of our own meals, compost and buy used, do errands by walking or biking, and other choices that can be more time consuming but are, we believe, worth it.

I know peopel are going to responds stuff like "well I guess we can't all be perfect like you" but I'm NOT perfect and don't think I am. I'm just tired of people on this thread acting like actually living these values is impossible or miserable. We have a wonderful life, we and our kids are very happy, we don't want for anything. It's actually possible to choose something other than big house/big car/scheduled to within an inch of your life/kids in everything/huge fancy vacations to far flung locations/etc. If that's what you want to do, nothing I say will stop you. But you can't tell me I'm a hypocrite, or that living more sustainably is impossible, or only available to rich people, or that no one actually does it. Some of us do it. You could too, if you wanted to. You just don't want to.

First off, none of that makes any difference, at all, with respect to climate change, other than supporting politicians and policies. Not one bit.

Second, it's very easy to say, "It's actually possible to choose something other than big house/big car/scheduled to within an inch of your life/kids in everything/huge fancy vacations to far flung locations/etc." when you can't afford to do any of those things. But if you made $600k each year, I doubt you'd still llive in an apartment. I bet you'd take a nice vacation. You might even buy a car, and enroll your kids in an extra activity or two. You'll deny it, of course, but I simply don't believe you.

This. This right here is why I am not friends with these women. They believe that everyone is jealous of them, and anyone who could afford to would live just like them. Wow.

Yup. True colors. They honestly believe that everyone on the planet would live in a giant house in the burbs and put their kids in travel sports and drive multiple giant vehicles if only they could afford it.

One thing that would probably freak them out is to learn that some of us actually turned down jobs where we could make the same amount of money they make, in part because we were not interested in the lifestyle that often accompanies these careers and incomes. Like... no interest. I wouldn't live like this for a billion dollars.

You've concocted quite a little fantasy there, but that's not at all what was said. No one said anything about a giant house, travel sports, or multiple giant vehicles. What was actually said was, "But if you made $600k each year, I doubt you'd still live in an apartment. I bet you'd take a nice vacation. You might even buy a car, and enroll your kids in an extra activity or two." That's very different. Perhaps you should think about what it says about your position if you have to badly mischaracterize someone else's point to make yours, or to make yourself feel better.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can’t believe it took this long for someone to note the disconnect between the wealthy, conformist moms and ALDIs. But in the event the post is real, I’m not a perfect person, and neither are you OP. And guess what, I have lots of imperfect friends. Individuals sometimes make choices that conflict with others’ values. That same gas guzzler might be the first person to show up at your house with a meal if you were seriously sick. Reducing people to one choice is a an awfully simplistic and unsatisfying way to go through life. You’re going to rule out a whole lot of people who might enrich your life. That said, if it’s a dealbreaker, you don’t have to hang out with them. Just know that each of those people you’re dismissing could be the person who alerts you later when your teen is in emotional trouble, or who is raising significant funds for another cause you care about. People are complicated.

Op here. That's precisely WHY I thought it was funny three moms with the same car were at Aldi. Aldi is closer to us. Whole foods are about 15 minutes away. Aldi parking lot is also easier for their big fat SUVs to sit. No kids were with any of them.

The trolling is getting old. You first said that you overheard the kids talking about their vacations in the checkout line. Now you say that they didn’t have kids with them at all. I understand it’s amusing for you to make up imaginary people to hate on anonymously online, but you must understand that it’s also pretty sad.

OP sounds insufferable, but she never said she heard the kids talking about vacations, she said it was the moms who ran into each other at the store.

[Anonymous]

Just would like to tell OP that we're leaving tomorrow for our second ski vacation out west this year. If course, we also drive a Prius, so not sure if that makes us virtuous or nor.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Honestly, OP would have been better off moving to Takoma Park or somewhere similar. Not sure what she was expecting in a place like McLean. I couldn't stand living in a place full of self-righteous crunchy liberals, so I didn't move there and moved to north Arlington. Not exactly rocket surgery.

What is rocket surgery??

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Honestly, OP would have been better off moving to Takoma Park or somewhere similar. Not sure what she was expecting in a place like McLean. I couldn't stand living in a place full of self-righteous crunchy liberals, so I didn't move there and moved to north Arlington. Not exactly rocket surgery.

+1000

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Honestly, OP would have been better off moving to Takoma Park or somewhere similar. Not sure what she was expecting in a place like McLean. I couldn't stand living in a place full of self-righteous crunchy liberals, so I didn't move there and moved to north Arlington. Not exactly rocket surgery.

What is rocket surgery??

It's an activity that's more difficult and dangerous than rocket science or brain surgery.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Honestly, OP would have been better off moving to Takoma Park or somewhere similar. Not sure what she was expecting in a place like McLean. I couldn't stand living in a place full of self-righteous crunchy liberals, so I didn't move there and moved to north Arlington. Not exactly rocket surgery.

It's hilarious that lefties don't feel hypocritical living in a town where the median home price is $725K.

[Anonymous]

It’s so easy for this forum to go off the rails and let a troll take up 26 pages on a topic. No wonder why I quit coming here as much.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Honestly, OP would have been better off moving to Takoma Park or somewhere similar. Not sure what she was expecting in a place like McLean. I couldn't stand living in a place full of self-righteous crunchy liberals, so I didn't move there and moved to north Arlington. Not exactly rocket surgery.

It's hilarious that lefties don't feel hypocritical living in a town where the median home price is $725K.

I'm not a leftie, but I don't see that as hypocritical. People need homes, and it's not generally any individual's fault that housing prices have gotten so unaffordable.

Granted, liberals have more than their fair share of the blame for enacting policies that have driven up housing costs and limited supply, but that's a different conversation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you cared about the environment, you'd still be living in an apartment in the city where you can walk everywhere. Hypocrite.

THIS.

Ok, not op here but I’m choosing to raise my kid in the city, in an apartment, and rarely drive because I think we all need to do our part to reduce our reliance on fossil fuels.

I also think giant SUVs are a pox on humanity.

So now what’s your excuse?

Do you fly on airplanes?

Aviation is the most climate-intensive form of transport.

It reminds me of when Meghan and Harry got serious sh*t for shading everyone about their lack of environmentalism and then were called out for flying in private jets everywhere.

I know this is going to totally blow you away, but some of us arguing against SUVs/giant houses/very consumption-focused lifestyles not only don't have private planes, but don't fly often. I fly maybe once a year. And some years not at all. I live in an apartment. My family owns one 10 year old car that we drive maybe once a week to go hiking and do a big grocery haul. We live in a neighborhood with public transportation and walkable services, and we support politicians and policies that make our lifestyle more accessible for more people. And we are not rich ourselves -- HHI of 140k, with one parent working part-time to maximize time with kids and also make it possible to do things like make more of our own meals, compost and buy used, do errands by walking or biking, and other choices that can be more time consuming but are, we believe, worth it.

I know peopel are going to responds stuff like "well I guess we can't all be perfect like you" but I'm NOT perfect and don't think I am. I'm just tired of people on this thread acting like actually living these values is impossible or miserable. We have a wonderful life, we and our kids are very happy, we don't want for anything. It's actually possible to choose something other than big house/big car/scheduled to within an inch of your life/kids in everything/huge fancy vacations to far flung locations/etc. If that's what you want to do, nothing I say will stop you. But you can't tell me I'm a hypocrite, or that living more sustainably is impossible, or only available to rich people, or that no one actually does it. Some of us do it. You could too, if you wanted to. You just don't want to.

First off, none of that makes any difference, at all, with respect to climate change, other than supporting politicians and policies. Not one bit.

Second, it's very easy to say, "It's actually possible to choose something other than big house/big car/scheduled to within an inch of your life/kids in everything/huge fancy vacations to far flung locations/etc." when you can't afford to do any of those things. But if you made $600k each year, I doubt you'd still llive in an apartment. I bet you'd take a nice vacation. You might even buy a car, and enroll your kids in an extra activity or two. You'll deny it, of course, but I simply don't believe you.

This. This right here is why I am not friends with these women. They believe that everyone is jealous of them, and anyone who could afford to would live just like them. Wow.

Yup. True colors. They honestly believe that everyone on the planet would live in a giant house in the burbs and put their kids in travel sports and drive multiple giant vehicles if only they could afford it.

One thing that would probably freak them out is to learn that some of us actually turned down jobs where we could make the same amount of money they make, in part because we were not interested in the lifestyle that often accompanies these careers and incomes. Like... no interest. I wouldn't live like this for a billion dollars.

You've concocted quite a little fantasy there, but that's not at all what was said. No one said anything about a giant house, travel sports, or multiple giant vehicles. What was actually said was, "But if you made $600k each year, I doubt you'd still live in an apartment. I bet you'd take a nice vacation. You might even buy a car, and enroll your kids in an extra activity or two." That's very different. Perhaps you should think about what it says about your position if you have to badly mischaracterize someone else's point to make yours, or to make yourself feel better.

Yeah, and this attitude is incorrect. People who value living in dense, walkable areas don't suddenly decide to move to a house in the suburbs because they have more money. They just buy a nicer apartment in a nice dense neighborhood in the city (which is actually very expensive because it's very desirable to many people to live in walking distance to everything you want or need and never have to get in a car). They'll spend their money to hire people to help make their home as efficient as possible, they'll buy the most sustainable foods, they'll buy carbon offsets. They might buy a car but they'll seek to buy one that is more environmentally responsible (they will never buy an Escalade) and living in the city, they actually are likely to keep it longer because they won't drive as much. They might enroll their kids in extra activities but they'll be metro accessible because of where they've chosen to live, and it's very unlikely to be travel sports -- they'll buy a piano and hire a good instructor who comes to the house.

The point is not that poor people are jealous of your house/car/vacations/kids activities. It's that people at many different incomes reject your lifestyle choices for a variety of reasons, from them being very environmentally unsustainable, to being boring and lazy. People don't immediately become generic suburban stepfords once they make a lot of money -- I know tons of people in the city who make 600k or more and all their income means is that they can more comfortably afford the nicer version of the more sustainable, walkable, urban lifestyle they prefer. Many of them don't even own cars because they don't need to -- if they needed one for something a few times a year, they can rent one. They'd rather put some of that money in their kid's college fund and then donate to a intiatative to protect indigenous people being displaced by climate change.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you cared about the environment, you'd still be living in an apartment in the city where you can walk everywhere. Hypocrite.

THIS.

Ok, not op here but I’m choosing to raise my kid in the city, in an apartment, and rarely drive because I think we all need to do our part to reduce our reliance on fossil fuels.

I also think giant SUVs are a pox on humanity.

So now what’s your excuse?

Do you fly on airplanes?

Aviation is the most climate-intensive form of transport.

It reminds me of when Meghan and Harry got serious sh*t for shading everyone about their lack of environmentalism and then were called out for flying in private jets everywhere.

I know this is going to totally blow you away, but some of us arguing against SUVs/giant houses/very consumption-focused lifestyles not only don't have private planes, but don't fly often. I fly maybe once a year. And some years not at all. I live in an apartment. My family owns one 10 year old car that we drive maybe once a week to go hiking and do a big grocery haul. We live in a neighborhood with public transportation and walkable services, and we support politicians and policies that make our lifestyle more accessible for more people. And we are not rich ourselves -- HHI of 140k, with one parent working part-time to maximize time with kids and also make it possible to do things like make more of our own meals, compost and buy used, do errands by walking or biking, and other choices that can be more time consuming but are, we believe, worth it.

I know peopel are going to responds stuff like "well I guess we can't all be perfect like you" but I'm NOT perfect and don't think I am. I'm just tired of people on this thread acting like actually living these values is impossible or miserable. We have a wonderful life, we and our kids are very happy, we don't want for anything. It's actually possible to choose something other than big house/big car/scheduled to within an inch of your life/kids in everything/huge fancy vacations to far flung locations/etc. If that's what you want to do, nothing I say will stop you. But you can't tell me I'm a hypocrite, or that living more sustainably is impossible, or only available to rich people, or that no one actually does it. Some of us do it. You could too, if you wanted to. You just don't want to.

First off, none of that makes any difference, at all, with respect to climate change, other than supporting politicians and policies. Not one bit.

Second, it's very easy to say, "It's actually possible to choose something other than big house/big car/scheduled to within an inch of your life/kids in everything/huge fancy vacations to far flung locations/etc." when you can't afford to do any of those things. But if you made $600k each year, I doubt you'd still llive in an apartment. I bet you'd take a nice vacation. You might even buy a car, and enroll your kids in an extra activity or two. You'll deny it, of course, but I simply don't believe you.

This. This right here is why I am not friends with these women. They believe that everyone is jealous of them, and anyone who could afford to would live just like them. Wow.

Yup. True colors. They honestly believe that everyone on the planet would live in a giant house in the burbs and put their kids in travel sports and drive multiple giant vehicles if only they could afford it.

One thing that would probably freak them out is to learn that some of us actually turned down jobs where we could make the same amount of money they make, in part because we were not interested in the lifestyle that often accompanies these careers and incomes. Like... no interest. I wouldn't live like this for a billion dollars.

You've concocted quite a little fantasy there, but that's not at all what was said. No one said anything about a giant house, travel sports, or multiple giant vehicles. What was actually said was, "But if you made $600k each year, I doubt you'd still live in an apartment. I bet you'd take a nice vacation. You might even buy a car, and enroll your kids in an extra activity or two." That's very different. Perhaps you should think about what it says about your position if you have to badly mischaracterize someone else's point to make yours, or to make yourself feel better.

Yeah, and this attitude is incorrect. People who value living in dense, walkable areas don't suddenly decide to move to a house in the suburbs because they have more money. They just buy a nicer apartment in a nice dense neighborhood in the city (which is actually very expensive because it's very desirable to many people to live in walking distance to everything you want or need and never have to get in a car). They'll spend their money to hire people to help make their home as efficient as possible, they'll buy the most sustainable foods, they'll buy carbon offsets. They might buy a car but they'll seek to buy one that is more environmentally responsible (they will never buy an Escalade) and living in the city, they actually are likely to keep it longer because they won't drive as much. They might enroll their kids in extra activities but they'll be metro accessible because of where they've chosen to live, and it's very unlikely to be travel sports -- they'll buy a piano and hire a good instructor who comes to the house.

The point is not that poor people are jealous of your house/car/vacations/kids activities. It's that people at many different incomes reject your lifestyle choices for a variety of reasons, from them being very environmentally unsustainable, to being boring and lazy. People don't immediately become generic suburban stepfords once they make a lot of money -- I know tons of people in the city who make 600k or more and all their income means is that they can more comfortably afford the nicer version of the more sustainable, walkable, urban lifestyle they prefer. Many of them don't even own cars because they don't need to -- if they needed one for something a few times a year, they can rent one. They'd rather put some of that money in their kid's college fund and then donate to a intiatative to protect indigenous people being displaced by climate change.

I love how you think this is a rebuttal. You agree that the PP would move (no one said anything about living in the suburbs, and also there are plenty of very expensive houses in a dense neighborhoods - I live in one). You agree the PP would buy a car. You agree that the PP would enroll her kids in additional activities. It doesn't look like you took a position on vacations, but I don't think even you would deny that the PP would take one.

So, it appears you agree with everything I said. As the President said, I love conversion.

My point, for those determined to continue to willfully misrepresent it, is that the PP's austere lifestyle is the result of necessity, not design, and you concede that she wouldn't live that lifestyle had she the ability to upgrade it. It appears you agree with me.