Reply to I don't think I can be friends with moms who drive huge SUVs

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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]If you cared about the environment, you'd still be living in an apartment in the city where you can walk everywhere. Hypocrite.[/quote]

THIS.[/quote]

Ok, not op here but I’m choosing to raise my kid in the city, in an apartment, and rarely drive because I think we all need to do our part to reduce our reliance on fossil fuels.

I also think giant SUVs are a pox on humanity.

So now what’s your excuse?[/quote]

Do you fly on airplanes?

Aviation is the most climate-intensive form of transport. [/quote]

It reminds me of when Meghan and Harry got serious sh*t for shading everyone about their lack of environmentalism and then were called out for flying in private jets everywhere.[/quote]

I know this is going to totally blow you away, but some of us arguing against SUVs/giant houses/very consumption-focused lifestyles not only don't have private planes, but don't fly often. I fly maybe once a year. And some years not at all. I live in an apartment. My family owns one 10 year old car that we drive maybe once a week to go hiking and do a big grocery haul. We live in a neighborhood with public transportation and walkable services, and we support politicians and policies that make our lifestyle more accessible for more people. And we are not rich ourselves -- HHI of 140k, with one parent working part-time to maximize time with kids and also make it possible to do things like make more of our own meals, compost and buy used, do errands by walking or biking, and other choices that can be more time consuming but are, we believe, worth it.

I know peopel are going to responds stuff like "well I guess we can't all be perfect like you" but I'm NOT perfect and don't think I am. I'm just tired of people on this thread acting like actually living these values is impossible or miserable. We have a wonderful life, we and our kids are very happy, we don't want for anything. It's actually possible to choose something other than big house/big car/scheduled to within an inch of your life/kids in everything/huge fancy vacations to far flung locations/etc. If that's what you want to do, nothing I say will stop you. But you can't tell me I'm a hypocrite, or that living more sustainably is impossible, or only available to rich people, or that no one actually does it. Some of us do it. You could too, if you wanted to. You just don't want to.[/quote]

First off, none of that makes any difference, at all, with respect to climate change, other than supporting politicians and policies.  Not one bit.

Second, it's very easy to say, "It's actually possible to choose something other than big house/big car/scheduled to within an inch of your life/kids in everything/huge fancy vacations to far flung locations/etc." when you can't afford to do any of those things.  But if you made $600k each year, I doubt you'd still llive in an apartment.  I bet you'd take a nice vacation.  You might even buy a car, and enroll your kids in an extra activity or two.  You'll deny it, of course, but I simply don't believe you.    [/quote]

This. This right here is why I am not friends with these women. They believe that everyone is jealous of them, and anyone who could afford to would live just like them. Wow. [/quote]

Yup. True colors. They honestly believe that everyone on the planet would live in a giant house in the burbs and put their kids in travel sports and drive multiple giant vehicles if only they could afford it.

One thing that would probably freak them out is to learn that some of us actually turned down jobs where we could make the same amount of money they make, in part because we were not interested in the lifestyle that often accompanies these careers and incomes. Like... no interest. I wouldn't live like this for a billion dollars.[/quote]

You've concocted quite a little fantasy there, but that's not at all what was said.  No one said anything about a giant house, travel sports, or multiple giant vehicles.  What was actually said was, "But if you made $600k each year, I doubt you'd still live in an apartment.  I bet you'd take a nice vacation.  You might even buy a car, and enroll your kids in an extra activity or two."  That's very different.   Perhaps you should think about what it says about your position if you have to badly mischaracterize someone else's point to make yours, or to make yourself feel better.  [/quote]

Yeah, and this attitude is incorrect. People who value living in dense, walkable areas don't suddenly decide to move to a house in the suburbs because they have more money. They just buy a nicer apartment in a nice dense neighborhood in the city (which is actually very expensive because it's very desirable to many people to live in walking distance to everything you want or need and never have to get in a car). They'll spend their money to hire people to help make their home as efficient as possible, they'll buy the most sustainable foods, they'll buy carbon offsets. They might buy a car but they'll seek to buy one that is more environmentally responsible (they will never buy an Escalade) and living in the city, they actually are likely to keep it longer because they won't drive as much. They might enroll their kids in extra activities but they'll be metro accessible because of where they've chosen to live, and it's very unlikely to be travel sports -- they'll buy a piano and hire a good instructor who comes to the house.

The point is not that poor people are jealous of your house/car/vacations/kids activities. It's that people at many different incomes reject your lifestyle choices for a variety of reasons, from them being very environmentally unsustainable, to being boring and lazy. People don't immediately become generic suburban stepfords once they make a lot of money -- I know tons of people in the city who make 600k or more and all their income means is that they can more comfortably afford the nicer version of the more sustainable, walkable, urban lifestyle they prefer. Many of them don't even own cars because they don't need to -- if they needed one for something a few times a year, they can rent one. They'd rather put some of that money in their kid's college fund and then donate to a intiatative to protect indigenous people being displaced by climate change.[/quote]

I love how you think this is a rebuttal.  You agree that the PP would move (no one said anything about living in the suburbs, and also there are plenty of very expensive houses in a dense neighborhoods - I live in one).  You agree the PP would buy a car.  You agree that the PP would enroll her kids in additional activities.  It doesn't look like you took a position on vacations, but I don't think even you would deny that the PP would take one.

So, it appears you agree with everything I said.  As the President said, I love conversion.

My point, for those determined to continue to willfully misrepresent it, is that the PP's austere lifestyle is the result of necessity, not design, and you concede that she wouldn't live that lifestyle had she the ability to upgrade it.   It appears you agree with me.  [/quote]

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