Punishment doesn't seem to phase this kid

[Anonymous]

DD is 11, has a slight learning disability but is very sweet and mostly hard working even though she struggles in school. Pre teen defiance has raised it's ugly head. We've had troubles with her not emptying her lunch box or book bag when she comes home from school. She sometimes "forgets" to give us notes from her teacher and vice versa. We find rotten bananas in her book bag. Now she is required to put her book bag at my feet when she comes home so we don't miss anything. She was punished with 2 weeks of no screen time-computer, TV, Wii after this particular issue ended up with our missing something really important. Then it was expanded to 3 weeks when her sister found unfinished homework in the trash.

She takes her punishment without complaint. I decided to make it a permanent policy that she hasno TV or computer or Wii during the week and very limited on the weekend and during breaks and to go to the reward system. When I catch her doing something particularly worthy I call her to me and give her back some of her beloved screen time. She likes that.

I detest potato chips. I think they are unhealthy but she likes them a lot. Her father does most of the grocery shopping and he buys them cause he likes them with a sandwich. I limited her to chips with a sandwich at lunch time but not at snack time when I always have fresh fruit available. Yesterday I saw her at the table doing her homework and asked her what she was having for snack. She told me grapes. Fine. She goes to the bathroom and I check her homework only to find a bowl of chips. I picked them up, put them in the trash and told her how disappointed i was not only in getting the chips but mainly for telling me a lie. I couldn't even talk to her anymore and left the room. Two hours later she asked if she could go outside to play ball with the dog and I asked her if she had finished her homework. She said yes. She played and then about 30 minutes before bedtime I asked her if she was ready for reading when she told me she had to finish her homework. Another lie. 2 in about 4 hours.

DH is out of town for the first time in 3 weeks. Could that have anything to do with it? I'm grasping for straws here. Any suggestions? I've taken away what she loves the most-screen time and playing outside with the neighbor girl for a week as punishment for another lie last week.

Thoughts?

[Anonymous]

You need to unclench about her eating potato chips since they are on your house.

[Anonymous]

When you take away the thing that she finds rewarding for two weeks, you have nothing left in your arsenal to use when she gets in trouble again. Also sounds like you are trying to punish away behavior you don't like, but what she really needs is to develop skills. My final thought is that you seem to set her up. You know she isn't doing her homework but instead of asking her to show it to you, you ask if it's done.

[Anonymous]

Tweens often lie. It's part of separating from you and trying to get more freedom. I'd approach it from a life skill perspective to start. Lying can get you in a lot of trouble, has emotional consequences for the one lying and the one lied to, and can really result in all out alienation. Tell her how important the truth is, and that lying will be dealt with seriously.

But tell her you also understand she's growing up and needs more autonomy. If she can demonstrate more responsibility (clean backpack, managing homework appropriately) you will acknowledge that increasing responsibility with more appropriate freedoms (like letting her eat potato chips).

Set this up as a reward system for responsible behavior.

[Anonymous]

If you don't want her to eat chips, don't buy them.

Try positive reinforcement. Agree with PP, you have nothing left by taking everything away:
http://www.amazon.com/Kazdin-Method-Parenting-Defiant-Child/dp/0547085826

Also, even if your kid didn't have a mild LD, she'd still need to learn basic executive skills, I'd look her for some good tips:
http://ectutoring.com/resources/articles

[Anonymous]

You're way too controlling

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You're way too controlling

+1. More real trouble is on the horizon if you don't ease up. Seriously.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You're way too controlling

+1. More real trouble is on the horizon if you don't ease up. Seriously.

Agree. Who would want to be nit-picked and judged to death like that? Some chips with homework could be a nice incentive which won't damage her if overall diet is good enough. How about "okay love, time to attack the homework. How about having a snack ( fruit and chips) and let's go over what needs to be done". I make a list with my DD who is very much like yours, and she checks off when each thing is done. Sounds better in theory than in actual practice as this doesn't happen each night for various reasons, but it works well when we do it!

[Anonymous]

It really sounds like you are CONSTANTLY on her case about something, and then coming down hard with her for every transgression. Not only is it not working but you really risk some serious rebellion when your daughter is old enough. You need to step back NOW and reevaluate your approach.

First of all, she may have ADHD and it certainly sounds like she has executive functioning challenges. So you are punishing her for things that are much more difficult for her to control than other kids. Rather than punishment you should be creating systems that help her -- checklists, for example. And give her rewards for getting things done rather than punishments.

Finally, its just cruel to go ape shit over her eating potato chips when you have them in the house. Ease up.

[Anonymous]

We are not controlling. Do you think asking these things is controlling/ Really? She chooses her own clothes and shoes, hair style, makes her own lunch every day, chooses if she wants to walk to school or get a ride, whether or not to wear a jacket and all sorts of choices she has. But when her chices or lack of consideration means difficulty for the rest of the family or problems with her teacher and incomplete homework then believe me, I will take over.

This is a little girl who was abandoned as an infant in Vietnam. She was undernourished when we got her and I'm all about healthy at our house. I'm somewhat overweight and while they aren't I'm trying to instill healthy eating habits at a young age so that is my concern about potato chips. From what I've read they are about the worst snack in the world!

I will try to get her to talk to me about the lies she has told and see if we can work something out. she lied about the chips so we will come to some agreement about maybe how many chips or how many timews a week she can have something other than fruit and let her manage that. Their school (and me too) don't allow any junk food in lunches. I try to get then 3 fruits a day.

She lied about having finished her homework. I'll encourage her to get at least 2/3 done in one sitting (probably less than an hour), take a break and then get the rest done after dinner.

One of the problems with homework is she does not want us over her when she does it so we allow her to try on her own then we check it and usually find all sorts of problems. This makes homework twice as long as it needs to be. We have tried to get her to wait till one of us can be at the table and accessible to see she in on the right track before she messes up the whole paper and has to do it all over again. Both us us are extremely patient with her, don't belittle her for her mistakes, try to make it hands on with toothpicks, raisins, spoons, etc to help- her bigges problems are with math and reading comprehension.

I appreciate your taking the time to think about this and to give me suggestions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We are not controlling. Do you think asking these things is controlling/ Really? She chooses her own clothes and shoes, hair style, makes her own lunch every day, chooses if she wants to walk to school or get a ride, whether or not to wear a jacket and all sorts of choices she has. But when her chices or lack of consideration means difficulty for the rest of the family or problems with her teacher and incomplete homework then believe me, I will take over.

This is a little girl who was abandoned as an infant in Vietnam. She was undernourished when we got her and I'm all about healthy at our house. I'm somewhat overweight and while they aren't I'm trying to instill healthy eating habits at a young age so that is my concern about potato chips. From what I've read they are about the worst snack in the world!

I will try to get her to talk to me about the lies she has told and see if we can work something out. she lied about the chips so we will come to some agreement about maybe how many chips or how many timews a week she can have something other than fruit and let her manage that. Their school (and me too) don't allow any junk food in lunches. I try to get then 3 fruits a day.

She lied about having finished her homework. I'll encourage her to get at least 2/3 done in one sitting (probably less than an hour), take a break and then get the rest done after dinner.

One of the problems with homework is she does not want us over her when she does it so we allow her to try on her own then we check it and usually find all sorts of problems. This makes homework twice as long as it needs to be. We have tried to get her to wait till one of us can be at the table and accessible to see she in on the right track before she messes up the whole paper and has to do it all over again. Both us us are extremely patient with her, don't belittle her for her mistakes, try to make it hands on with toothpicks, raisins, spoons, etc to help- her bigges problems are with math and reading comprehension.

I appreciate your taking the time to think about this and to give me suggestions.

Does her teacher want you to check her work? If not, don't. Let the teacher see what she is struggling with so she can address it with your DD. The teacher should see the problems. Plus it just sounds excruciating, that she is spending so long on her homework. Check to make sure the homework is done but don't check for mistakes and don't make her do it over. And don't sit with her -- tell her that if she needs your help, you are available, but otherwise she should do it on her on.

She's lying because there are so many consequences for so many rules. Essentially you are teaching her to lie because complying is so stressful for her. She hasn't internalized any discipline because so much of it is external. Seriously, you are going to count the potato chips? She probably perceives that she is being punished because she was undernourished in Vietnam. if there are going to be chips in the house, you need to ease up. And don't let your own body image issues affect this.

What "lack of consideration?" What I see is a kid who is struggling with the increased demands of middle skill while being constantly surveilled and punished. Maybe you resent the fact that you have to spend so much time with her on her homework. Then stop. Let her teacher deal with the consequences.

She doesn't sound willful to me, even though you seem to think so. To me she sounds like a kid with ADHD, or other learning and executive function challenges that make it difficult for her to do her homework, and she is dealing with the constant stress of this by trying to find her own way out. Set her up for success and stop harping on perceived failures.

[Anonymous]

I meant middle school

[Anonymous]

Agree that punishing her for eating (or not letting her eat) what's in the house is stupid.

You need to take a long hard look at why she's lying. You're making her lie. Read the section on lying in Nurture Shock. If you stand over her while she does homework, you are telling her that you do not believe she is capable. I also don't understand why you are punishing her when she seems to genuinely forget things. I really feel for your daughter. It sounds like an incredibly stressful home life for her right now. Please get some help.

[Anonymous]

This girl has repeated 1 grade and had to go to summer school every summer since 3rd grade so I would not let her fail anything. I don't think that would phase her really.

I'll tell you my biggest fear. She will hit middle school next year and I don't want her to be one of those young teens who gets her positive reinforcement from attention from boys. Middle school can be a mine field for the best of students but I fear a girl not having positive experience academically might be too much under the influence of boys. We had an epiphany this summer. I realized she would never be an academic standout like all her siblings so we had to find other areas to give her confidence. She loves to cook and bake so we encourage that. She loves to run so we are hoping she can take track in middle school. She's not much for sports and wanted to drop out of ballet after only l season. fine. I won't force her. I'm constantly looking for ways to praise her. Still she has to do her homework and she has to study. I just can't let it slide and I don't think she wants to let it slide. She likes to read comic books which we had trouble with but were told by educators that comics are fine. OK. Now I have asked her to make her own comic books. fun for awhile.lost interest.
we will keep trying. she is definitely worth it. whatever it takes.

[Anonymous]

It's good to be mindful of what she eats but your policing of her food intake will give her lifelong food issues. And agree with others that your behavior and punishments are making her lie. Maybe you should look into counseling for yourself and your control issues.