Muslim women speak out against the hijab as an element of political Islam

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Okay if criticizing other women's religious principles that have no effect on you is fair game, I suppose so are booty shorts, cleavage, exposing thighs, hair tossing, and all the unfortunate culturally acceptable sexual behaviors that may result from such clothing is fair game too. Are you sure about that?

Different PP here. I'm sure! I know my own culture and I'm certain that you've manufactured lies about how we're all promiscuous and garbed in booty shorts, because of your own personal need to justify the veil. We also share very different views about the importance of virginity. Therefore it's easy to laugh your lies off!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Okay if criticizing other women's religious principles that have no effect on you is fair game, I suppose so are booty shorts, cleavage, exposing thighs, hair tossing, and all the unfortunate culturally acceptable sexual behaviors that may result from such clothing is fair game too. Are you sure about that?

Are you suggesting someone would not be ok with you criticizing "booty shorts?" I'm totally ok with you criticizing booty shorts. Do you ever read this forum other than the religion section? We criticize capri pants, much less booty shorts. But I can't actually recall the last time I saw a woman in booty shorts, so to act like they are a big part of our culture is false.

[Anonymous]

Muslims are on DCUM mocking the Trinity and Jesus' divinity all the time. Also making offensive and very erroneous statements about how Islam is just like Christianity but without Jesus' divinity, as if Jesus was all about retribution and eating rules.

Why, then, are you so sensitive when the tables are turned?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I am sorry for your family's experience. There is good and bad in every country and every religion. There are extremist views that have given birth to intolerance and its unfortunate that these views are confused for the religion itself.

When extremism becomes the majority, one can no longer pretend that's not the religion itself.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I'm 22:36 again. You assume far too much. If women wear hijab to avoid the glances or stares of men, it doesn't necessarily mean they are being cowed by men. Many men will notice a pretty woman. Are you denying this or are you saying it is only prevalent in Muslim cultures? A few will stare. Evenso, most don't to intimidate or harass. They simply notice. I'm sure you have male relatives and friends. Ask them if their intent when they notice a pretty woman is for the purposes of intimidating or harassing. Ask most women who catch a man noticing them if they felt intimidated or harassed by the glance or stare. Most women don't feel that is a man's intent and most men don't intend that either.

Practicing Muslim women who choose to wear hijab want to prevent ANY glances or stares because in Islam it is a sin for men to notice women's beauty. Period. Hair is an adornment (well, except for Leila Ahmed, maybe lol). It is colored, straightened, curled, etc…and then shown off by women to men.

Why are you bent upon trying to prove Muslim women would never desire to wear hijab? Is it because it angers you so much that it is a mandate in some Muslim countries? Is it because in your own mind, it is considered perfectly natural and healthy for women to show their attractiveness to men? Or is it because you can not imagine women exercising such a level of restraint?

You're talking in circles, thus trapping yourself.

Again, b/c men can't help themselves, women have to hide.

You can't see that beyond your veil?

You needn't resort to snark to get your point across just because you don't like that Muslim women veil.

Why do men commit more crimes than women in nearly every society? Why are insurance rates generally higher for men? Are you going to sit there and now deny biochemical differences between men and women? In the western mindset, the quest to prove linear equality between men and women may cause women to insist they are identical to men in every way, but from the Islamic perspective this is an erroneous presumption. Muslim women do not need to justify veiling under western ideology. The requirement to "lower ones gaze" is there in the Quran for both men and women, but men are more likely to have a harder time controlling themselves from the sin of gazing.

If you don't agree, fine. It's simply a different perspective.

uh

There are PLENTY of men who aren't thinking of fucking every woman walking down the street. There are plenty of men who practice self control. There are plenty of men who don't "own" their wives, who respect women, and who believe women are their equals.

So now you're using "biology" to defend covering? lol! First it's the Quran; now it's biology.
What's next?

Unfortunately, it's YOUR sick belief system that gives YOUR men that edge and power. It's absolutely mind boggling and more than disgusting!


This isn't a different perspective. It's self-enslavement!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You are free to opine. Whether a woman is a virgin is not determined by the hijab and I think we all know how that.

Women are fighting for their right to wear hijab or niqab is France and Canada. Many women opt to wear hijab here in the US.

I can tell you my father never once asked me to wear hijab. My mother never wore it. I chose to wear it.[b] I only stopped after I worried for my safety.

But keep imagining your explanations if it helps you to cope with seeing veiled Muslims.

Not sure why what we Muslims wear should cause you such agitation to provoke a 23 page thread. Let us be.

In this case, the apple fell far from the tree.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:In western nations what is the percentage of men who have premarital sex? Based on this unfortunately high percentage, I would say women are already treated as sex objects here.

And the women participating 1) don't count and 2) are being raped?

wtf?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Maybe the Muslim theology student was simply pleased that his wife chose to show her body to only him. And it's not uncommon for men to get excited by a woman who makes them feel special and important in any way.

In Islam gazing inevitably leads to lust (in many cases). Lust may lead to greater sins. To permit women ( or men) to show off their adornments and say no sin will ever result is just false.

Newsflash- if men and women marry, no need to have sex outside of marriage...or have sex with animals. ?

The Muslim theology student, of course, was kind of a sleaze. He loved spending time with female students, but for his own wife, I guess he wanted someone "pure." Fair enough.

Of course, pp, your description of Islam sounds consistent to what I have seen in practice. Narrow, legalistic, and overly onerous. To cover your entire body so that you can save some poor man from the risk of lust- I guess if you feel this is for the glory of God, good for you.

It's not that burdensome for many Muslim women to wear hijab. For many hijab wearers, it's more dignified than using their hair (or cleavage, legs, or any other part of their body) to attract a man's attention.

Is it dignified or modest to wear eye makeup with the niqab, or is it natural and human nature? Are these women wrong or normal?

The burqa will take care of that.

[Anonymous]

What may have become offensive to some Muslims on this thread is some non-Muslims agreeing with the Muslim authors of the article in the OP that Islam does not call for women to wear a hijab. The Quranic verse used to justify the hijab as an Islamic requirement has been stretched way beyond its context with contorted translations of the Arabic.

There is simply no command in the Quran for women to cover their hair, but there is certainly one to cover their breasts.

The trend towards a very narrow view of Islam that hyperfocuses on sexuality instead of spirituality and good deeds, as it originally did, is very disturbing. For better or for worse the hijab has become a symbol of that unfortunate development.

That said, I would defend to the death the right of a woman in the U.S. to wear a hijab no matter how brainwashed or misguided or, indeed, however arrogant, tiresome, or unpleasant she may be.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What may have become offensive to some Muslims on this thread is some non-Muslims agreeing with the Muslim authors of the article in the OP that Islam does not call for women to wear a hijab. The Quranic verse used to justify the hijab as an Islamic requirement has been stretched way beyond its context with contorted translations of the Arabic.

There is simply no command in the Quran for women to cover their hair, but there is certainly one to cover their breasts.

The trend towards a very narrow view of Islam that hyperfocuses on sexuality instead of spirituality and good deeds, as it originally did, is very disturbing. For better or for worse the hijab has become a symbol of that unfortunate development.

That said, I would defend to the death the right of a woman in the U.S. to wear a hijab no matter how brainwashed or misguided or, indeed, however arrogant, tiresome, or unpleasant she may be.

I don't understand this thinking.

How can you say this? The hijab represents oppression and shrinks a woman's worth - turning her into nothing more than a sexual toy. Yet you'll defend it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What may have become offensive to some Muslims on this thread is some non-Muslims agreeing with the Muslim authors of the article in the OP that Islam does not call for women to wear a hijab. The Quranic verse used to justify the hijab as an Islamic requirement has been stretched way beyond its context with contorted translations of the Arabic.

There is simply no command in the Quran for women to cover their hair, but there is certainly one to cover their breasts.

The trend towards a very narrow view of Islam that hyperfocuses on sexuality instead of spirituality and good deeds, as it originally did, is very disturbing. For better or for worse the hijab has become a symbol of that unfortunate development.

That said, I would defend to the death the right of a woman in the U.S. to wear a hijab no matter how brainwashed or misguided or, indeed, however arrogant, tiresome, or unpleasant she may be.

I don't understand this thinking.

How can you say this? The hijab represents oppression and shrinks a woman's worth - turning her into nothing more than a sexual toy. Yet you'll defend it?

I do not have to agree with the hijab and, personally, I abhor what it stands for. But yes, I would defend a woman's right to wear the darn thing, a right I believe the Constitution grants her under the first amendment. I would defend the niqab, as well, which is much worse, except that it poses security risks. Personally, I would support state laws banning all face coverings such as Virginia has now and which by case laws of similar bans have been deemed constitutional.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What may have become offensive to some Muslims on this thread is some non-Muslims agreeing with the Muslim authors of the article in the OP that Islam does not call for women to wear a hijab. The Quranic verse used to justify the hijab as an Islamic requirement has been stretched way beyond its context with contorted translations of the Arabic.

There is simply no command in the Quran for women to cover their hair, but there is certainly one to cover their breasts.

The trend towards a very narrow view of Islam that hyperfocuses on sexuality instead of spirituality and good deeds, as it originally did, is very disturbing. For better or for worse the hijab has become a symbol of that unfortunate development.

That said, I would defend to the death the right of a woman in the U.S. to wear a hijab no matter how brainwashed or misguided or, indeed, however arrogant, tiresome, or unpleasant she may be.

I don't understand this thinking.

How can you say this? The hijab represents oppression and shrinks a woman's worth - turning her into nothing more than a sexual toy. Yet you'll defend it?

Not that PP, but I agree. I believe women have the freedom, in this country, to wear hijab, those homespun floorlength dresses that fundamentalist Christians wear, sheer revealing clothes that some women like to wear, etc. I believe women have the freedom to participate fully in society, or to hide themselves away and subjugate themselves to their menfolk. As long as they don't force that on their sons and daughters.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What may have become offensive to some Muslims on this thread is some non-Muslims agreeing with the Muslim authors of the article in the OP that Islam does not call for women to wear a hijab. The Quranic verse used to justify the hijab as an Islamic requirement has been stretched way beyond its context with contorted translations of the Arabic.

There is simply no command in the Quran for women to cover their hair, but there is certainly one to cover their breasts.

The trend towards a very narrow view of Islam that hyperfocuses on sexuality instead of spirituality and good deeds, as it originally did, is very disturbing. For better or for worse the hijab has become a symbol of that unfortunate development.

That said, I would defend to the death the right of a woman in the U.S. to wear a hijab no matter how brainwashed or misguided or, indeed, however arrogant, tiresome, or unpleasant she may be.

Was the issue that the Quran does not mandate the hijab or was it that hijab is unimportant as part of modesty?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I am sorry for your family's experience. There is good and bad in every country and every religion. There are extremist views that have given birth to intolerance and its unfortunate that these views are confused for the religion itself.

When extremism becomes the majority, one can no longer pretend that's not the religion itself.

Last time I checked, more than half of the 1.5 billion Muslims in this world are not extremist, hostile, or violent!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I am sorry for your family's experience. There is good and bad in every country and every religion. There are extremist views that have given birth to intolerance and its unfortunate that these views are confused for the religion itself.

When extremism becomes the majority, one can no longer pretend that's not the religion itself.

Last time I checked, more than half of the 1.5 billion Muslims in this world are not extremist, hostile, or violent!

If 49% of 1.5 billion Muslims are extremist, hostile, or violent, that's over 700 million that are. Not reassuring.