Would you really leave America if Trump/Musk are scaring you?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We just bought a large business in Canada, so that will be our ticket if we need to leave.

Nice

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:You're going to feel pretty silly if the next election cycle results in changes in domestic politics and all of a sudden the sky stops falling. Relocating internationally with shifting political winds seems foolish, at best, not to mention expensive and disruptive.

But, if you wear a tinfoil hat and assume there will be no further elections in the U.S. ever, you'll be patting yourself on the back.

Which scenario seems the more likely?

My grandparents lived through WWII in Europe. My grandfather was an RAF pilot. My father fled a dictatorship in a once prosperous and peaceful nation. "Things fall apart, the system cannot hold". There is nothing magical about the US that will keep us from falling into this. No one is coming to save us.

The quote is “things fall apart, the center cannot hold.” It’s from The Second Coming by Yeats.

I was paraphrasing and actually referencing the novel by Chinua Achebe which is about a breakdown of a political system. Hope this helps!

Not really. Achebe used the famous line from Yeats’ poem for his title. The way you wrote it implied it was the quote, which it most certainly isn’t.

He used the first part of the line as the title. I specifically wrote system because the political system is what we're talking about. Anyway glad you got to be pedantic on the internet today! "And say my glory was I had such friends"

Oh just piss off, you wannabe limey.

Hahaha Yates, famously Irish? Limey means British. They...don't like each other. You are learning so much today!

Nope, well aware and recently spent a month in County Sligo which is Yeats country. The PP said she wanted to immigrate to the UK as her grandparents were from the UK. She is a wannabe limey.

Also it’s Yeats, not Yates. Seems like you’re on a roll. Please do leave for the UK. Bland food and terrible weather likely suit you. I always laugh when I see the little UK cars driving around near where I live with huge UK sticker on the back. You’ll fit right in with that dowdy lot.

^ this definitely screams low-class MAGA

And you scream "never lived in the UK." All the celebrities who have decamped to the Cotswolds have re-created the privileged places they left behind as have the few wealthy Brits and Middle Easteners who live in Central London The rest of the countries in the UK do not have the standard of living enjoyed by even the MAGAs in the US.

Ok sure....can you give some examples?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I plan to stay.

If I had kids under 18 I would leave.

I have kids starting college in 2025 and 2027- how would you leave in my place? Serious question, they want to stay!

They are probably old enough so that they would not want to go. If you have younger kids, start now.

You should be happy that you raised children with critical thinking skills who are more realistic about the current world. Perhaps this is why so many young people voted for Trump. They are wiser than their parents.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA Only "young adults" and thankfully it's not many who we know that voted for him were those raised in super christian controlling racist homes that worshiped trump since 2016.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:As a Canadian I was surprised at how fast he turned on us, ripping up trade agreements, and surprised at all the negative comments I hear from Americans that actively hate us. And people wonder how Hitler got into power.

The only thing that will rile up most privileged Americans will be when they come after your SSRIs.

You do know that most privileged Americans are scared of this administration and horrified by Trump. That’s why we are thinking of fleeing our own country. The tone deafness it would take to come on to this thread and say Americans don’t care…. Just wow.

The PP is right. Most Americans don’t care. And maybe privileged Americans like you should use your privilege to do something instead of running away.

NP. If I was a billionaire I’d use my $$ to run anti-trump and Elon ads. I’m privileged, but can’t afford that and compete with the oligarchs, so I’ll run away.

So because you're not a billionaire, you're going to run away and leave the least privileged Americans to suffer?

As opposed to doing what?

+1

What do you expect the PP to do?

How can any individual fight the massive number of idiots who believe the relentless flow of misinformation?

I don't know, maybe not just bail?
What makes you think other countries want to take in selfish cowards?

I know, you'll say it's not your fault and you'll be welcome anywhere because you have money, and you don't care even if you're not welcome because your family blah blah....and that is precisely why Americans are so despised around in the world and why the country was so susceptible to this in the first place.

umm blah blah.. most of us are one or two generations out from people who abandoned their own countries. like sunnis from pakistan - noone is persecuting them, so many of the pakistani drs here went to medical school on the pakistani governments dime, did their 7 years and move to the US instead of staying there and voting and helping foster a liberal democracy. Brazilians or Egyptians, Nigerians, Ghanians, Peruvians- these people immigrated here to make a quick buck, they have no sense of civic responsibility or sacrifice so of course they will bail. many diaspora communities are made up of economic migrants, and people like that dont care about community. also many countries have improved a lot- it used to be that no matter how wealthy you were, you couldnt have the same living standard as in the USA. that is no longer true- but these diaspora communities better move quick, the oligarchs back home might close their borders as well!

I’m from one of the countries you mentioned. We do have a sense of community back home. And here. We also have more recent experience with authoritarian governments. I would only “bail” if I felt like my kids were in danger because the US has been my home for decades. It’s heartbreaking to see what’s happening in the US. Even if my educated parents came here for better economic opportunities, I still held the US as the ideal. Not corrupt like back home. And now it’s all crumbling.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I plan to stay.

If I had kids under 18 I would leave.

I have kids starting college in 2025 and 2027- how would you leave in my place? Serious question, they want to stay!

Stay. Let them go to school where they want to. Take deep breaths. Relax. It'll all be fine. The worst which will happen is you'll pay less tax for a few years.

Only if you are a billionaire. It's not fine so shut it MAGA

[Anonymous]

Costa Rica doesn’t require a visa, but does require eeturn ticket home within 6 months.

[Anonymous]

After today, people in the EU are really upset at the U.S. It’s clear Trump is aligned with Putin. Plus gutting NOAA, NWS. And the attack on free speech/the media. The pile of crap from this administration keeps getting bigger.

[Anonymous]

It's not that easy to leave, especially if you aren't young or rich.

And as an American, you will be targeted by people who are angry at America--even though you left because you disagreed with the direction the US is going.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:No, I'm actually returning to the US. Despite everything, the US is still one of the best places in the world for skilled work. I hit a dead end here. Economically, Europe has been struggling.

Don't let the 'liberal' mindset fool you.
Culturally, it's very xenophobic even if you speak the local language. People are racist and closed-minded here, especially towards foreigners. Integration is hard.

Yes, some places are safer, but a lot of these countries have real issues too.

This. I am from Europe, my parents and siblings live there. USA is still the best place to live and work. Europe is not the same what it used to be 20+ years ago. There are no jobs in Europe, people are not as open as people in USA, it's a different vibe over there. Europe is great for vacation, but working there is a different story.

Ok, best of luck with that.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/laurabegleybloom/2024/11/24/ranked-the-worlds-25-best-cities-to-live-according-to-expats/

https://livingcost.org/best

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-countries/rankings/quality-of-life

https://www.cntraveler.com/gallery/the-most-livable-cities-in-the-world

This is really funny. You're using US sources for EU facts? I have lived in many EU countries, had kids there and have a vast network of friends with kids - all had OBs. Yes, there are midwives, but I don't know anyone except for maybe Waldorf parents that didn't have an OB when giving birth.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:For those of you who have the option-what is the line? The moment you say “this is it.” I’m wondering about people who are first or second generation immigrants. How do you weigh your home countries’ issues with potentially living in a fascist state?

My line was crossed in like 25 years ago. First gen and always preferred Europe. Only here for two year contract now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's not that easy to leave, especially if you aren't young or rich.

And as an American, you will be targeted by people who are angry at America--even though you left because you disagreed with the direction the US is going.

Not true, there are many shortages of workers in certain sectors and life is MUCH less expensive in Europe than in the US. The average salary is between 35-55k, depending on the country and region. I can live in Europe on a fraction of what I spend in DC or any other place I would consider living in the US. It's really not that hard to emigrate.

[Anonymous]

Why can't we just split into two countries like India and Pakistan djd?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's not that easy to leave, especially if you aren't young or rich.

And as an American, you will be targeted by people who are angry at America--even though you left because you disagreed with the direction the US is going.

Not true, there are many shortages of workers in certain sectors and life is MUCH less expensive in Europe than in the US. The average salary is between 35-55k, depending on the country and region. I can live in Europe on a fraction of what I spend in DC or any other place I would consider living in the US. It's really not that hard to emigrate.

Many countries will not allow you to settle permanently if you are not young (unless you are rich).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’m very upset about not just here but also US-Europe relations as I am from there. I worry about greater impact, travel issues, my aging parents…and I don’t think Europe is safe either.

Me too. All family in Europe and worried about travel etc

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It is a big deal to leave your home country. It would probably take violence, starvation, or persecution for me to leave. I hope that is a dramatic line of thinking and it doesn’t get that far. That is what I imagine it takes for most people.

It's really not that big a deal, it's all in your head. It's not easy, especially as most Americans believe so many myths about European countries (good and bad),but it's much easier than most think.

Then again, if you don't have an openminded, flexible personality, or you are very family oriented, yeah, it's not for you.