Question about the homophobia thread

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^Saying that some doctors have unethically treated people who later detrans is *not* saying they are conspiring to trick people.

That’s a leap.

You talked about "parents who are trying to stand up for themselves against unethical doctors". In other words, multiple unethical doctors are trying to convince parents to agree to unnecessary care (in your interpretation). What is the difference between that and "conspiring to trick people"?

DP. That’s a really disingenuous interpretation. Frankly I expect better from you than this.

Everyone reading can see both your words and my interpretation of them and come to their own conclusion. If you don't think that doctors are conspiring to trick parents, but you do believe that "unethical doctors" are doing something which "parents who are trying to stand up for themselves against", please explain what you actually mean?

You of all people should know what “dp” means and that I’m not the person you were engaging with or who said that. But I agree with that person’s position.

There are medical professionals who will ignore a parent’s concern and hesitation about medical treatment for a child’s gender dysphoria. That may be motivated by genuine concern for the child, by feeling pressure from their administration or colleagues, or by the financial remuneration they will receive for continuing treatment.

To say they are trying to “trick” the parent implies they believe it is the wrong treatment and are prescribing it anyway. I don’t think that’s what pp is saying. The issue is that they willfully refuse to consider other causes for the gender dysphoria, ignore parental concerns, and proceed with medical treatment that may ultimately not be in the child’s best interest. Calling this a “trick” derails the conversation and ignores the larger issues at play.

There are apparently two posters accusing me of misinterpreting the statement about "unethical doctors" and now both of them are claiming they didn't post the message that said that. So, I went back to check and it is true that it wasn't you who wrote that. But, the other poster, who actually did write it, is also denying it for some reason. I apologize for confusing the two of you.

But, you ignored the primary point of the post that led to this diversion. If you believe that all voices should be heard, then you can set an example for all of us. When you post about those who detransition, be sure to mention how they are exploited by those who are anti-trans and that some of them reverse their decision again and retransition.

This is my reply to that.

Anonymous wrote:The reason that detransitioners are embraced solely by awful republicans with ulterior motives is because everyone else tries to silence them.

What other groups support them? Who else is allowing them share their stories? You see it here in this thread that parents who are trying to stand up for themselves against unethical doctors are called liars. They’re shunned.

This is why I say trans activists should embrace them. If your goal is to ensure proper trans care, those detransitioners who are treated poorly by unethical doctors or whomever have an important voice, too.

Yes, I spend time in r/detrans. I tell you that only to indicate that these people are real with real stories and real pain and real voices.

They have nowhere to go. They were once trans. They matter, too.

Yes, some people “retransition.” Is it because they are constantly threatened by activists? Is it because the only ones standing up for them are republicans?

I can’t help but wonder.

It is simply amazing how much power you attribute to a very marginalized population. In the face of an entire political party and several state governments attempting to restrict their rights, a group armed with little more than Twitter accounts is able to convince people to transition and then bully them into retransitioning when they stray. Yet, we should not let the word "conspiracy" escape our lips.

The power doesn’t just come from a very marginalized population. That population has the White House and major corporations behind them, as well as lots of legislators. At least be honest

Yes, let's be honest. Neither the White House nor a single corporation has bullied any anti-trans person or caused someone who has detransitioned to retransition.

Meanwhile, Florida has just prohibited gender affirming care for minors and made it extremely difficult for even adults to get such care. Just ignore that and be in awe of a Pride display at Target. That's where the real power is, right?

So did Scandinavia. It's a way of protecting trans kids from medical malpractice. Trans kids deserve evidence based medicine like anyone else, they're not lab rats.

Scandinavia is not a country. I don't know about the other countries, but in Sweden eligible minors can still get gender affirming care that is not available in Florida.

Sweden isn't the only country in Scandinavia. Sweden, Norway, and Finland were mentioned a few posts ago as banning and restricting "gender affirming care" for minors. Those are all Scandinavian countries, FYI. Hence the reference to Scandinavia, not just Sweden. You claim that trans kids in Sweden can get "gender affirming care" that kids in Florida can't get, but you don't provide any evidence. Please provide a link or source for your claim.

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^Saying that some doctors have unethically treated people who later detrans is *not* saying they are conspiring to trick people.

That’s a leap.

You talked about "parents who are trying to stand up for themselves against unethical doctors". In other words, multiple unethical doctors are trying to convince parents to agree to unnecessary care (in your interpretation). What is the difference between that and "conspiring to trick people"?

DP. That’s a really disingenuous interpretation. Frankly I expect better from you than this.

Everyone reading can see both your words and my interpretation of them and come to their own conclusion. If you don't think that doctors are conspiring to trick parents, but you do believe that "unethical doctors" are doing something which "parents who are trying to stand up for themselves against", please explain what you actually mean?

You of all people should know what “dp” means and that I’m not the person you were engaging with or who said that. But I agree with that person’s position.

There are medical professionals who will ignore a parent’s concern and hesitation about medical treatment for a child’s gender dysphoria. That may be motivated by genuine concern for the child, by feeling pressure from their administration or colleagues, or by the financial remuneration they will receive for continuing treatment.

To say they are trying to “trick” the parent implies they believe it is the wrong treatment and are prescribing it anyway. I don’t think that’s what pp is saying. The issue is that they willfully refuse to consider other causes for the gender dysphoria, ignore parental concerns, and proceed with medical treatment that may ultimately not be in the child’s best interest. Calling this a “trick” derails the conversation and ignores the larger issues at play.

There are apparently two posters accusing me of misinterpreting the statement about "unethical doctors" and now both of them are claiming they didn't post the message that said that. So, I went back to check and it is true that it wasn't you who wrote that. But, the other poster, who actually did write it, is also denying it for some reason. I apologize for confusing the two of you.

But, you ignored the primary point of the post that led to this diversion. If you believe that all voices should be heard, then you can set an example for all of us. When you post about those who detransition, be sure to mention how they are exploited by those who are anti-trans and that some of them reverse their decision again and retransition.

This is my reply to that.

Anonymous wrote:The reason that detransitioners are embraced solely by awful republicans with ulterior motives is because everyone else tries to silence them.

What other groups support them? Who else is allowing them share their stories? You see it here in this thread that parents who are trying to stand up for themselves against unethical doctors are called liars. They’re shunned.

This is why I say trans activists should embrace them. If your goal is to ensure proper trans care, those detransitioners who are treated poorly by unethical doctors or whomever have an important voice, too.

Yes, I spend time in r/detrans. I tell you that only to indicate that these people are real with real stories and real pain and real voices.

They have nowhere to go. They were once trans. They matter, too.

Yes, some people “retransition.” Is it because they are constantly threatened by activists? Is it because the only ones standing up for them are republicans?

I can’t help but wonder.

It is simply amazing how much power you attribute to a very marginalized population. In the face of an entire political party and several state governments attempting to restrict their rights, a group armed with little more than Twitter accounts is able to convince people to transition and then bully them into retransitioning when they stray. Yet, we should not let the word "conspiracy" escape our lips.

The power doesn’t just come from a very marginalized population. That population has the White House and major corporations behind them, as well as lots of legislators. At least be honest

Yes, let's be honest. Neither the White House nor a single corporation has bullied any anti-trans person or caused someone who has detransitioned to retransition.

Meanwhile, Florida has just prohibited gender affirming care for minors and made it extremely difficult for even adults to get such care. Just ignore that and be in awe of a Pride display at Target. That's where the real power is, right?

So did Scandinavia. It's a way of protecting trans kids from medical malpractice. Trans kids deserve evidence based medicine like anyone else, they're not lab rats.

Scandinavia is not a country. I don't know about the other countries, but in Sweden eligible minors can still get gender affirming care that is not available in Florida.

Sweden isn't the only country in Scandinavia. Sweden, Norway, and Finland were mentioned a few posts ago as banning and restricting "gender affirming care" for minors. Those are all Scandinavian countries, FYI. Hence the reference to Scandinavia, not just Sweden. You claim that trans kids in Sweden can get "gender affirming care" that kids in Florida can't get, but you don't provide any evidence. Please provide a link or source for your claim.

You made your claim about restrictions first, so you show evidence that Florida provides fewer restrictions. Moreover, Florida has restrictions on adult care. So, compare those to restrictions in Scandinavia as well.

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^Saying that some doctors have unethically treated people who later detrans is *not* saying they are conspiring to trick people.

That’s a leap.

You talked about "parents who are trying to stand up for themselves against unethical doctors". In other words, multiple unethical doctors are trying to convince parents to agree to unnecessary care (in your interpretation). What is the difference between that and "conspiring to trick people"?

DP. That’s a really disingenuous interpretation. Frankly I expect better from you than this.

Everyone reading can see both your words and my interpretation of them and come to their own conclusion. If you don't think that doctors are conspiring to trick parents, but you do believe that "unethical doctors" are doing something which "parents who are trying to stand up for themselves against", please explain what you actually mean?

You of all people should know what “dp” means and that I’m not the person you were engaging with or who said that. But I agree with that person’s position.

There are medical professionals who will ignore a parent’s concern and hesitation about medical treatment for a child’s gender dysphoria. That may be motivated by genuine concern for the child, by feeling pressure from their administration or colleagues, or by the financial remuneration they will receive for continuing treatment.

To say they are trying to “trick” the parent implies they believe it is the wrong treatment and are prescribing it anyway. I don’t think that’s what pp is saying. The issue is that they willfully refuse to consider other causes for the gender dysphoria, ignore parental concerns, and proceed with medical treatment that may ultimately not be in the child’s best interest. Calling this a “trick” derails the conversation and ignores the larger issues at play.

There are apparently two posters accusing me of misinterpreting the statement about "unethical doctors" and now both of them are claiming they didn't post the message that said that. So, I went back to check and it is true that it wasn't you who wrote that. But, the other poster, who actually did write it, is also denying it for some reason. I apologize for confusing the two of you.

But, you ignored the primary point of the post that led to this diversion. If you believe that all voices should be heard, then you can set an example for all of us. When you post about those who detransition, be sure to mention how they are exploited by those who are anti-trans and that some of them reverse their decision again and retransition.

This is my reply to that.

Anonymous wrote:The reason that detransitioners are embraced solely by awful republicans with ulterior motives is because everyone else tries to silence them.

What other groups support them? Who else is allowing them share their stories? You see it here in this thread that parents who are trying to stand up for themselves against unethical doctors are called liars. They’re shunned.

This is why I say trans activists should embrace them. If your goal is to ensure proper trans care, those detransitioners who are treated poorly by unethical doctors or whomever have an important voice, too.

Yes, I spend time in r/detrans. I tell you that only to indicate that these people are real with real stories and real pain and real voices.

They have nowhere to go. They were once trans. They matter, too.

Yes, some people “retransition.” Is it because they are constantly threatened by activists? Is it because the only ones standing up for them are republicans?

I can’t help but wonder.

It is simply amazing how much power you attribute to a very marginalized population. In the face of an entire political party and several state governments attempting to restrict their rights, a group armed with little more than Twitter accounts is able to convince people to transition and then bully them into retransitioning when they stray. Yet, we should not let the word "conspiracy" escape our lips.

The power doesn’t just come from a very marginalized population. That population has the White House and major corporations behind them, as well as lots of legislators. At least be honest

Yes, let's be honest. Neither the White House nor a single corporation has bullied any anti-trans person or caused someone who has detransitioned to retransition.

Meanwhile, Florida has just prohibited gender affirming care for minors and made it extremely difficult for even adults to get such care. Just ignore that and be in awe of a Pride display at Target. That's where the real power is, right?

The women who competed against Lia Thomas and who were forced to change clothes in the locker room with him naked were told that if they objected publicly they would lose scholarships and job opportunities. You don’t think that’s bullying behavior?

I agree that locker room issues present issues that might need special solutions, but I doubt your sincerity in citing this example based on your disrespectful misgendering of Lia Thomas. Please stop.

You don’t need my sincerity. The facts are these young women were bullied into accepting a naked male with exposed genitalia in their locker room.

You can’t tell me that transwomen are a marginalized powerless group when some of the best and brightest scholar athletes in this country are told they will lose scholarships and jobs if they object to what would be considered sexual harassment or indecent assault in any other context.

What is your evidence that this happened?

How do you claim to be educated on these issues and not know about this? https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2022/02/03/lia-thomas-penn-swimming-teammates/

Nice try, but fail. The word "scholarship" does not appear in that article. I'll assume that since you can't support your claim that swimmers were threatened with a loss of scholarships, the claim was false. That's pretty much par for the course with you.

They were threatened with removal from the team. Any scholarships based on their participation on the swim team would have been lost. Try reading the article next time instead of using a word search.

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^Saying that some doctors have unethically treated people who later detrans is *not* saying they are conspiring to trick people.

That’s a leap.

You talked about "parents who are trying to stand up for themselves against unethical doctors". In other words, multiple unethical doctors are trying to convince parents to agree to unnecessary care (in your interpretation). What is the difference between that and "conspiring to trick people"?

DP. That’s a really disingenuous interpretation. Frankly I expect better from you than this.

Everyone reading can see both your words and my interpretation of them and come to their own conclusion. If you don't think that doctors are conspiring to trick parents, but you do believe that "unethical doctors" are doing something which "parents who are trying to stand up for themselves against", please explain what you actually mean?

You of all people should know what “dp” means and that I’m not the person you were engaging with or who said that. But I agree with that person’s position.

There are medical professionals who will ignore a parent’s concern and hesitation about medical treatment for a child’s gender dysphoria. That may be motivated by genuine concern for the child, by feeling pressure from their administration or colleagues, or by the financial remuneration they will receive for continuing treatment.

To say they are trying to “trick” the parent implies they believe it is the wrong treatment and are prescribing it anyway. I don’t think that’s what pp is saying. The issue is that they willfully refuse to consider other causes for the gender dysphoria, ignore parental concerns, and proceed with medical treatment that may ultimately not be in the child’s best interest. Calling this a “trick” derails the conversation and ignores the larger issues at play.

There are apparently two posters accusing me of misinterpreting the statement about "unethical doctors" and now both of them are claiming they didn't post the message that said that. So, I went back to check and it is true that it wasn't you who wrote that. But, the other poster, who actually did write it, is also denying it for some reason. I apologize for confusing the two of you.

But, you ignored the primary point of the post that led to this diversion. If you believe that all voices should be heard, then you can set an example for all of us. When you post about those who detransition, be sure to mention how they are exploited by those who are anti-trans and that some of them reverse their decision again and retransition.

This is my reply to that.

Anonymous wrote:The reason that detransitioners are embraced solely by awful republicans with ulterior motives is because everyone else tries to silence them.

What other groups support them? Who else is allowing them share their stories? You see it here in this thread that parents who are trying to stand up for themselves against unethical doctors are called liars. They’re shunned.

This is why I say trans activists should embrace them. If your goal is to ensure proper trans care, those detransitioners who are treated poorly by unethical doctors or whomever have an important voice, too.

Yes, I spend time in r/detrans. I tell you that only to indicate that these people are real with real stories and real pain and real voices.

They have nowhere to go. They were once trans. They matter, too.

Yes, some people “retransition.” Is it because they are constantly threatened by activists? Is it because the only ones standing up for them are republicans?

I can’t help but wonder.

It is simply amazing how much power you attribute to a very marginalized population. In the face of an entire political party and several state governments attempting to restrict their rights, a group armed with little more than Twitter accounts is able to convince people to transition and then bully them into retransitioning when they stray. Yet, we should not let the word "conspiracy" escape our lips.

The power doesn’t just come from a very marginalized population. That population has the White House and major corporations behind them, as well as lots of legislators. At least be honest

Yes, let's be honest. Neither the White House nor a single corporation has bullied any anti-trans person or caused someone who has detransitioned to retransition.

Meanwhile, Florida has just prohibited gender affirming care for minors and made it extremely difficult for even adults to get such care. Just ignore that and be in awe of a Pride display at Target. That's where the real power is, right?

So did Scandinavia. It's a way of protecting trans kids from medical malpractice. Trans kids deserve evidence based medicine like anyone else, they're not lab rats.

Scandinavia is not a country. I don't know about the other countries, but in Sweden eligible minors can still get gender affirming care that is not available in Florida.

Sweden isn't the only country in Scandinavia. Sweden, Norway, and Finland were mentioned a few posts ago as banning and restricting "gender affirming care" for minors. Those are all Scandinavian countries, FYI. Hence the reference to Scandinavia, not just Sweden. You claim that trans kids in Sweden can get "gender affirming care" that kids in Florida can't get, but you don't provide any evidence. Please provide a link or source for your claim.

You made your claim about restrictions first, so you show evidence that Florida provides fewer restrictions. Moreover, Florida has restrictions on adult care. So, compare those to restrictions in Scandinavia as well.

I never mentioned adult care at all, that was all you. And no, you're the one who made the claim about restrictions first. The onus is on you to provide evidence for your unsubstantiated claim.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^Saying that some doctors have unethically treated people who later detrans is *not* saying they are conspiring to trick people.

That’s a leap.

You talked about "parents who are trying to stand up for themselves against unethical doctors". In other words, multiple unethical doctors are trying to convince parents to agree to unnecessary care (in your interpretation). What is the difference between that and "conspiring to trick people"?

DP. That’s a really disingenuous interpretation. Frankly I expect better from you than this.

Everyone reading can see both your words and my interpretation of them and come to their own conclusion. If you don't think that doctors are conspiring to trick parents, but you do believe that "unethical doctors" are doing something which "parents who are trying to stand up for themselves against", please explain what you actually mean?

You of all people should know what “dp” means and that I’m not the person you were engaging with or who said that. But I agree with that person’s position.

There are medical professionals who will ignore a parent’s concern and hesitation about medical treatment for a child’s gender dysphoria. That may be motivated by genuine concern for the child, by feeling pressure from their administration or colleagues, or by the financial remuneration they will receive for continuing treatment.

To say they are trying to “trick” the parent implies they believe it is the wrong treatment and are prescribing it anyway. I don’t think that’s what pp is saying. The issue is that they willfully refuse to consider other causes for the gender dysphoria, ignore parental concerns, and proceed with medical treatment that may ultimately not be in the child’s best interest. Calling this a “trick” derails the conversation and ignores the larger issues at play.

There are apparently two posters accusing me of misinterpreting the statement about "unethical doctors" and now both of them are claiming they didn't post the message that said that. So, I went back to check and it is true that it wasn't you who wrote that. But, the other poster, who actually did write it, is also denying it for some reason. I apologize for confusing the two of you.

But, you ignored the primary point of the post that led to this diversion. If you believe that all voices should be heard, then you can set an example for all of us. When you post about those who detransition, be sure to mention how they are exploited by those who are anti-trans and that some of them reverse their decision again and retransition.

This is my reply to that.

Anonymous wrote:The reason that detransitioners are embraced solely by awful republicans with ulterior motives is because everyone else tries to silence them.

What other groups support them? Who else is allowing them share their stories? You see it here in this thread that parents who are trying to stand up for themselves against unethical doctors are called liars. They’re shunned.

This is why I say trans activists should embrace them. If your goal is to ensure proper trans care, those detransitioners who are treated poorly by unethical doctors or whomever have an important voice, too.

Yes, I spend time in r/detrans. I tell you that only to indicate that these people are real with real stories and real pain and real voices.

They have nowhere to go. They were once trans. They matter, too.

Yes, some people “retransition.” Is it because they are constantly threatened by activists? Is it because the only ones standing up for them are republicans?

I can’t help but wonder.

It is simply amazing how much power you attribute to a very marginalized population. In the face of an entire political party and several state governments attempting to restrict their rights, a group armed with little more than Twitter accounts is able to convince people to transition and then bully them into retransitioning when they stray. Yet, we should not let the word "conspiracy" escape our lips.

The power doesn’t just come from a very marginalized population. That population has the White House and major corporations behind them, as well as lots of legislators. At least be honest

Yes, let's be honest. Neither the White House nor a single corporation has bullied any anti-trans person or caused someone who has detransitioned to retransition.

Meanwhile, Florida has just prohibited gender affirming care for minors and made it extremely difficult for even adults to get such care. Just ignore that and be in awe of a Pride display at Target. That's where the real power is, right?

The women who competed against Lia Thomas and who were forced to change clothes in the locker room with him naked were told that if they objected publicly they would lose scholarships and job opportunities. You don’t think that’s bullying behavior?

I agree that locker room issues present issues that might need special solutions, but I doubt your sincerity in citing this example based on your disrespectful misgendering of Lia Thomas. Please stop.

You don’t need my sincerity. The facts are these young women were bullied into accepting a naked male with exposed genitalia in their locker room.

You can’t tell me that transwomen are a marginalized powerless group when some of the best and brightest scholar athletes in this country are told they will lose scholarships and jobs if they object to what would be considered sexual harassment or indecent assault in any other context.

Penn doesn't offer athletic scholarships.

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^Saying that some doctors have unethically treated people who later detrans is *not* saying they are conspiring to trick people.

That’s a leap.

You talked about "parents who are trying to stand up for themselves against unethical doctors". In other words, multiple unethical doctors are trying to convince parents to agree to unnecessary care (in your interpretation). What is the difference between that and "conspiring to trick people"?

DP. That’s a really disingenuous interpretation. Frankly I expect better from you than this.

Everyone reading can see both your words and my interpretation of them and come to their own conclusion. If you don't think that doctors are conspiring to trick parents, but you do believe that "unethical doctors" are doing something which "parents who are trying to stand up for themselves against", please explain what you actually mean?

You of all people should know what “dp” means and that I’m not the person you were engaging with or who said that. But I agree with that person’s position.

There are medical professionals who will ignore a parent’s concern and hesitation about medical treatment for a child’s gender dysphoria. That may be motivated by genuine concern for the child, by feeling pressure from their administration or colleagues, or by the financial remuneration they will receive for continuing treatment.

To say they are trying to “trick” the parent implies they believe it is the wrong treatment and are prescribing it anyway. I don’t think that’s what pp is saying. The issue is that they willfully refuse to consider other causes for the gender dysphoria, ignore parental concerns, and proceed with medical treatment that may ultimately not be in the child’s best interest. Calling this a “trick” derails the conversation and ignores the larger issues at play.

There are apparently two posters accusing me of misinterpreting the statement about "unethical doctors" and now both of them are claiming they didn't post the message that said that. So, I went back to check and it is true that it wasn't you who wrote that. But, the other poster, who actually did write it, is also denying it for some reason. I apologize for confusing the two of you.

But, you ignored the primary point of the post that led to this diversion. If you believe that all voices should be heard, then you can set an example for all of us. When you post about those who detransition, be sure to mention how they are exploited by those who are anti-trans and that some of them reverse their decision again and retransition.

This is my reply to that.

Anonymous wrote:The reason that detransitioners are embraced solely by awful republicans with ulterior motives is because everyone else tries to silence them.

What other groups support them? Who else is allowing them share their stories? You see it here in this thread that parents who are trying to stand up for themselves against unethical doctors are called liars. They’re shunned.

This is why I say trans activists should embrace them. If your goal is to ensure proper trans care, those detransitioners who are treated poorly by unethical doctors or whomever have an important voice, too.

Yes, I spend time in r/detrans. I tell you that only to indicate that these people are real with real stories and real pain and real voices.

They have nowhere to go. They were once trans. They matter, too.

Yes, some people “retransition.” Is it because they are constantly threatened by activists? Is it because the only ones standing up for them are republicans?

I can’t help but wonder.

It is simply amazing how much power you attribute to a very marginalized population. In the face of an entire political party and several state governments attempting to restrict their rights, a group armed with little more than Twitter accounts is able to convince people to transition and then bully them into retransitioning when they stray. Yet, we should not let the word "conspiracy" escape our lips.

The power doesn’t just come from a very marginalized population. That population has the White House and major corporations behind them, as well as lots of legislators. At least be honest

Yes, let's be honest. Neither the White House nor a single corporation has bullied any anti-trans person or caused someone who has detransitioned to retransition.

Meanwhile, Florida has just prohibited gender affirming care for minors and made it extremely difficult for even adults to get such care. Just ignore that and be in awe of a Pride display at Target. That's where the real power is, right?

So did Scandinavia. It's a way of protecting trans kids from medical malpractice. Trans kids deserve evidence based medicine like anyone else, they're not lab rats.

Scandinavia is not a country. I don't know about the other countries, but in Sweden eligible minors can still get gender affirming care that is not available in Florida.

Sweden isn't the only country in Scandinavia. Sweden, Norway, and Finland were mentioned a few posts ago as banning and restricting "gender affirming care" for minors. Those are all Scandinavian countries, FYI. Hence the reference to Scandinavia, not just Sweden. You claim that trans kids in Sweden can get "gender affirming care" that kids in Florida can't get, but you don't provide any evidence. Please provide a link or source for your claim.

You made your claim about restrictions first, so you show evidence that Florida provides fewer restrictions. Moreover, Florida has restrictions on adult care. So, compare those to restrictions in Scandinavia as well.

I never mentioned adult care at all, that was all you. And no, you're the one who made the claim about restrictions first. The onus is on you to provide evidence for your unsubstantiated claim.

Wrong. You made the claim about Scandinavia here:

http://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/330/1135511.page#25126299

But, since you are clearly not prepared to support your assertion, I'll go ahead and support mine. Here is the latest Swedish recommendation:

https://www.socialstyrelsen.se/globalassets/sharepoint-dokument/artikelkatalog/kunskapsstod/2022-3-7799.pdf

The recommendation says, "the NBHW deems that treatment with GnRH-analogues and sex hormones may be given in exceptional cases,
in accordance with the updated recommendations and criteria described in the guidelines."

In Florida, "The only exception to the prohibition is for patients who commenced any prescriptions or procedures prior to or on the date of when the proposed law is signed."

https://www.foley.com/en/insights/publications/2023/05/florida-bill-gender-affirming-care-minors-adults

So, Sweden clearly provides wider access to gender affirming care than Florida.

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^Saying that some doctors have unethically treated people who later detrans is *not* saying they are conspiring to trick people.

That’s a leap.

You talked about "parents who are trying to stand up for themselves against unethical doctors". In other words, multiple unethical doctors are trying to convince parents to agree to unnecessary care (in your interpretation). What is the difference between that and "conspiring to trick people"?

DP. That’s a really disingenuous interpretation. Frankly I expect better from you than this.

Everyone reading can see both your words and my interpretation of them and come to their own conclusion. If you don't think that doctors are conspiring to trick parents, but you do believe that "unethical doctors" are doing something which "parents who are trying to stand up for themselves against", please explain what you actually mean?

You of all people should know what “dp” means and that I’m not the person you were engaging with or who said that. But I agree with that person’s position.

There are medical professionals who will ignore a parent’s concern and hesitation about medical treatment for a child’s gender dysphoria. That may be motivated by genuine concern for the child, by feeling pressure from their administration or colleagues, or by the financial remuneration they will receive for continuing treatment.

To say they are trying to “trick” the parent implies they believe it is the wrong treatment and are prescribing it anyway. I don’t think that’s what pp is saying. The issue is that they willfully refuse to consider other causes for the gender dysphoria, ignore parental concerns, and proceed with medical treatment that may ultimately not be in the child’s best interest. Calling this a “trick” derails the conversation and ignores the larger issues at play.

There are apparently two posters accusing me of misinterpreting the statement about "unethical doctors" and now both of them are claiming they didn't post the message that said that. So, I went back to check and it is true that it wasn't you who wrote that. But, the other poster, who actually did write it, is also denying it for some reason. I apologize for confusing the two of you.

But, you ignored the primary point of the post that led to this diversion. If you believe that all voices should be heard, then you can set an example for all of us. When you post about those who detransition, be sure to mention how they are exploited by those who are anti-trans and that some of them reverse their decision again and retransition.

This is my reply to that.

Anonymous wrote:The reason that detransitioners are embraced solely by awful republicans with ulterior motives is because everyone else tries to silence them.

What other groups support them? Who else is allowing them share their stories? You see it here in this thread that parents who are trying to stand up for themselves against unethical doctors are called liars. They’re shunned.

This is why I say trans activists should embrace them. If your goal is to ensure proper trans care, those detransitioners who are treated poorly by unethical doctors or whomever have an important voice, too.

Yes, I spend time in r/detrans. I tell you that only to indicate that these people are real with real stories and real pain and real voices.

They have nowhere to go. They were once trans. They matter, too.

Yes, some people “retransition.” Is it because they are constantly threatened by activists? Is it because the only ones standing up for them are republicans?

I can’t help but wonder.

It is simply amazing how much power you attribute to a very marginalized population. In the face of an entire political party and several state governments attempting to restrict their rights, a group armed with little more than Twitter accounts is able to convince people to transition and then bully them into retransitioning when they stray. Yet, we should not let the word "conspiracy" escape our lips.

The power doesn’t just come from a very marginalized population. That population has the White House and major corporations behind them, as well as lots of legislators. At least be honest

Yes, let's be honest. Neither the White House nor a single corporation has bullied any anti-trans person or caused someone who has detransitioned to retransition.

Meanwhile, Florida has just prohibited gender affirming care for minors and made it extremely difficult for even adults to get such care. Just ignore that and be in awe of a Pride display at Target. That's where the real power is, right?

So did Scandinavia. It's a way of protecting trans kids from medical malpractice. Trans kids deserve evidence based medicine like anyone else, they're not lab rats.

Scandinavia is not a country. I don't know about the other countries, but in Sweden eligible minors can still get gender affirming care that is not available in Florida.

Sweden isn't the only country in Scandinavia. Sweden, Norway, and Finland were mentioned a few posts ago as banning and restricting "gender affirming care" for minors. Those are all Scandinavian countries, FYI. Hence the reference to Scandinavia, not just Sweden. You claim that trans kids in Sweden can get "gender affirming care" that kids in Florida can't get, but you don't provide any evidence. Please provide a link or source for your claim.

You made your claim about restrictions first, so you show evidence that Florida provides fewer restrictions. Moreover, Florida has restrictions on adult care. So, compare those to restrictions in Scandinavia as well.

I never mentioned adult care at all, that was all you. And no, you're the one who made the claim about restrictions first. The onus is on you to provide evidence for your unsubstantiated claim.

Wrong. You made the claim about Scandinavia here:

http://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/330/1135511.page#25126299

But, since you are clearly not prepared to support your assertion, I'll go ahead and support mine. Here is the latest Swedish recommendation:

https://www.socialstyrelsen.se/globalassets/sharepoint-dokument/artikelkatalog/kunskapsstod/2022-3-7799.pdf

The recommendation says, "the NBHW deems that treatment with GnRH-analogues and sex hormones may be given in exceptional cases,
in accordance with the updated recommendations and criteria described in the guidelines."

In Florida, "The only exception to the prohibition is for patients who commenced any prescriptions or procedures prior to or on the date of when the proposed law is signed."

https://www.foley.com/en/insights/publications/2023/05/florida-bill-gender-affirming-care-minors-adults

So, Sweden clearly provides wider access to gender affirming care than Florida.

I’m not the PP and haven’t been part of the discussion about Europe in this thread, at least that I remember, but I think this is a little loosely stated. You are comparing care protocols under socialized medicine in Sweden to legal analysis under private and public care in Florida. There typically aren’t laws passed in countries with socialized medicine over medical care because there is much less ability to go around state healthcare with private insurance. Also, the situation for adults versus children is very different. You may end up being correct in the end, but I think given the profound differences in institutional implementation of care in the two spots, it is a little early to say conclusively that “Sweden clearly provides wider access to gender affirming care than Florida.” Since Sweden just updated their care protocols for children, the actual implementation is still in process.

The Atlantic had an article on developments in Europe regarding gender affirming care for children recently:

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2023/04/gender-affirming-care-debate-europe-dutch-protocol/673890/

There is also this overview from a respected organization in Sweden about what healthcare is available and timelines under their nationalized system:

https://www.rfsl.se/en/organisation/vard-for-transpersoner/transvaard/

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^Saying that some doctors have unethically treated people who later detrans is *not* saying they are conspiring to trick people.

That’s a leap.

You talked about "parents who are trying to stand up for themselves against unethical doctors". In other words, multiple unethical doctors are trying to convince parents to agree to unnecessary care (in your interpretation). What is the difference between that and "conspiring to trick people"?

DP. That’s a really disingenuous interpretation. Frankly I expect better from you than this.

Everyone reading can see both your words and my interpretation of them and come to their own conclusion. If you don't think that doctors are conspiring to trick parents, but you do believe that "unethical doctors" are doing something which "parents who are trying to stand up for themselves against", please explain what you actually mean?

You of all people should know what “dp” means and that I’m not the person you were engaging with or who said that. But I agree with that person’s position.

There are medical professionals who will ignore a parent’s concern and hesitation about medical treatment for a child’s gender dysphoria. That may be motivated by genuine concern for the child, by feeling pressure from their administration or colleagues, or by the financial remuneration they will receive for continuing treatment.

To say they are trying to “trick” the parent implies they believe it is the wrong treatment and are prescribing it anyway. I don’t think that’s what pp is saying. The issue is that they willfully refuse to consider other causes for the gender dysphoria, ignore parental concerns, and proceed with medical treatment that may ultimately not be in the child’s best interest. Calling this a “trick” derails the conversation and ignores the larger issues at play.

There are apparently two posters accusing me of misinterpreting the statement about "unethical doctors" and now both of them are claiming they didn't post the message that said that. So, I went back to check and it is true that it wasn't you who wrote that. But, the other poster, who actually did write it, is also denying it for some reason. I apologize for confusing the two of you.

But, you ignored the primary point of the post that led to this diversion. If you believe that all voices should be heard, then you can set an example for all of us. When you post about those who detransition, be sure to mention how they are exploited by those who are anti-trans and that some of them reverse their decision again and retransition.

This is my reply to that.

Anonymous wrote:The reason that detransitioners are embraced solely by awful republicans with ulterior motives is because everyone else tries to silence them.

What other groups support them? Who else is allowing them share their stories? You see it here in this thread that parents who are trying to stand up for themselves against unethical doctors are called liars. They’re shunned.

This is why I say trans activists should embrace them. If your goal is to ensure proper trans care, those detransitioners who are treated poorly by unethical doctors or whomever have an important voice, too.

Yes, I spend time in r/detrans. I tell you that only to indicate that these people are real with real stories and real pain and real voices.

They have nowhere to go. They were once trans. They matter, too.

Yes, some people “retransition.” Is it because they are constantly threatened by activists? Is it because the only ones standing up for them are republicans?

I can’t help but wonder.

It is simply amazing how much power you attribute to a very marginalized population. In the face of an entire political party and several state governments attempting to restrict their rights, a group armed with little more than Twitter accounts is able to convince people to transition and then bully them into retransitioning when they stray. Yet, we should not let the word "conspiracy" escape our lips.

The power doesn’t just come from a very marginalized population. That population has the White House and major corporations behind them, as well as lots of legislators. At least be honest

Yes, let's be honest. Neither the White House nor a single corporation has bullied any anti-trans person or caused someone who has detransitioned to retransition.

Meanwhile, Florida has just prohibited gender affirming care for minors and made it extremely difficult for even adults to get such care. Just ignore that and be in awe of a Pride display at Target. That's where the real power is, right?

So did Scandinavia. It's a way of protecting trans kids from medical malpractice. Trans kids deserve evidence based medicine like anyone else, they're not lab rats.

Scandinavia is not a country. I don't know about the other countries, but in Sweden eligible minors can still get gender affirming care that is not available in Florida.

Sweden isn't the only country in Scandinavia. Sweden, Norway, and Finland were mentioned a few posts ago as banning and restricting "gender affirming care" for minors. Those are all Scandinavian countries, FYI. Hence the reference to Scandinavia, not just Sweden. You claim that trans kids in Sweden can get "gender affirming care" that kids in Florida can't get, but you don't provide any evidence. Please provide a link or source for your claim.

You made your claim about restrictions first, so you show evidence that Florida provides fewer restrictions. Moreover, Florida has restrictions on adult care. So, compare those to restrictions in Scandinavia as well.

I never mentioned adult care at all, that was all you. And no, you're the one who made the claim about restrictions first. The onus is on you to provide evidence for your unsubstantiated claim.

Wrong. You made the claim about Scandinavia here:

http://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/330/1135511.page#25126299

But, since you are clearly not prepared to support your assertion, I'll go ahead and support mine. Here is the latest Swedish recommendation:

https://www.socialstyrelsen.se/globalassets/sharepoint-dokument/artikelkatalog/kunskapsstod/2022-3-7799.pdf

The recommendation says, "the NBHW deems that treatment with GnRH-analogues and sex hormones may be given in exceptional cases,
in accordance with the updated recommendations and criteria described in the guidelines."

In Florida, "The only exception to the prohibition is for patients who commenced any prescriptions or procedures prior to or on the date of when the proposed law is signed."

https://www.foley.com/en/insights/publications/2023/05/florida-bill-gender-affirming-care-minors-adults

So, Sweden clearly provides wider access to gender affirming care than Florida.

I’m not the PP and haven’t been part of the discussion about Europe in this thread, at least that I remember, but I think this is a little loosely stated. You are comparing care protocols under socialized medicine in Sweden to legal analysis under private and public care in Florida. There typically aren’t laws passed in countries with socialized medicine over medical care because there is much less ability to go around state healthcare with private insurance. Also, the situation for adults versus children is very different. You may end up being correct in the end, but I think given the profound differences in institutional implementation of care in the two spots, it is a little early to say conclusively that “Sweden clearly provides wider access to gender affirming care than Florida.” Since Sweden just updated their care protocols for children, the actual implementation is still in process.

The Atlantic had an article on developments in Europe regarding gender affirming care for children recently:

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2023/04/gender-affirming-care-debate-europe-dutch-protocol/673890/

There is also this overview from a respected organization in Sweden about what healthcare is available and timelines under their nationalized system:

https://www.rfsl.se/en/organisation/vard-for-transpersoner/transvaard/

There is a lot going on in this thread so I don't think we need to add a debate about socialized healthcare vs private healthcare.

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^Saying that some doctors have unethically treated people who later detrans is *not* saying they are conspiring to trick people.

That’s a leap.

You talked about "parents who are trying to stand up for themselves against unethical doctors". In other words, multiple unethical doctors are trying to convince parents to agree to unnecessary care (in your interpretation). What is the difference between that and "conspiring to trick people"?

DP. That’s a really disingenuous interpretation. Frankly I expect better from you than this.

Everyone reading can see both your words and my interpretation of them and come to their own conclusion. If you don't think that doctors are conspiring to trick parents, but you do believe that "unethical doctors" are doing something which "parents who are trying to stand up for themselves against", please explain what you actually mean?

You of all people should know what “dp” means and that I’m not the person you were engaging with or who said that. But I agree with that person’s position.

There are medical professionals who will ignore a parent’s concern and hesitation about medical treatment for a child’s gender dysphoria. That may be motivated by genuine concern for the child, by feeling pressure from their administration or colleagues, or by the financial remuneration they will receive for continuing treatment.

To say they are trying to “trick” the parent implies they believe it is the wrong treatment and are prescribing it anyway. I don’t think that’s what pp is saying. The issue is that they willfully refuse to consider other causes for the gender dysphoria, ignore parental concerns, and proceed with medical treatment that may ultimately not be in the child’s best interest. Calling this a “trick” derails the conversation and ignores the larger issues at play.

There are apparently two posters accusing me of misinterpreting the statement about "unethical doctors" and now both of them are claiming they didn't post the message that said that. So, I went back to check and it is true that it wasn't you who wrote that. But, the other poster, who actually did write it, is also denying it for some reason. I apologize for confusing the two of you.

But, you ignored the primary point of the post that led to this diversion. If you believe that all voices should be heard, then you can set an example for all of us. When you post about those who detransition, be sure to mention how they are exploited by those who are anti-trans and that some of them reverse their decision again and retransition.

This is my reply to that.

Anonymous wrote:The reason that detransitioners are embraced solely by awful republicans with ulterior motives is because everyone else tries to silence them.

What other groups support them? Who else is allowing them share their stories? You see it here in this thread that parents who are trying to stand up for themselves against unethical doctors are called liars. They’re shunned.

This is why I say trans activists should embrace them. If your goal is to ensure proper trans care, those detransitioners who are treated poorly by unethical doctors or whomever have an important voice, too.

Yes, I spend time in r/detrans. I tell you that only to indicate that these people are real with real stories and real pain and real voices.

They have nowhere to go. They were once trans. They matter, too.

Yes, some people “retransition.” Is it because they are constantly threatened by activists? Is it because the only ones standing up for them are republicans?

I can’t help but wonder.

It is simply amazing how much power you attribute to a very marginalized population. In the face of an entire political party and several state governments attempting to restrict their rights, a group armed with little more than Twitter accounts is able to convince people to transition and then bully them into retransitioning when they stray. Yet, we should not let the word "conspiracy" escape our lips.

The power doesn’t just come from a very marginalized population. That population has the White House and major corporations behind them, as well as lots of legislators. At least be honest

Yes, let's be honest. Neither the White House nor a single corporation has bullied any anti-trans person or caused someone who has detransitioned to retransition.

Meanwhile, Florida has just prohibited gender affirming care for minors and made it extremely difficult for even adults to get such care. Just ignore that and be in awe of a Pride display at Target. That's where the real power is, right?

So did Scandinavia. It's a way of protecting trans kids from medical malpractice. Trans kids deserve evidence based medicine like anyone else, they're not lab rats.

Scandinavia is not a country. I don't know about the other countries, but in Sweden eligible minors can still get gender affirming care that is not available in Florida.

Sweden isn't the only country in Scandinavia. Sweden, Norway, and Finland were mentioned a few posts ago as banning and restricting "gender affirming care" for minors. Those are all Scandinavian countries, FYI. Hence the reference to Scandinavia, not just Sweden. You claim that trans kids in Sweden can get "gender affirming care" that kids in Florida can't get, but you don't provide any evidence. Please provide a link or source for your claim.

You made your claim about restrictions first, so you show evidence that Florida provides fewer restrictions. Moreover, Florida has restrictions on adult care. So, compare those to restrictions in Scandinavia as well.

I never mentioned adult care at all, that was all you. And no, you're the one who made the claim about restrictions first. The onus is on you to provide evidence for your unsubstantiated claim.

Wrong. You made the claim about Scandinavia here:

http://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/330/1135511.page#25126299

But, since you are clearly not prepared to support your assertion, I'll go ahead and support mine. Here is the latest Swedish recommendation:

https://www.socialstyrelsen.se/globalassets/sharepoint-dokument/artikelkatalog/kunskapsstod/2022-3-7799.pdf

The recommendation says, "the NBHW deems that treatment with GnRH-analogues and sex hormones may be given in exceptional cases,
in accordance with the updated recommendations and criteria described in the guidelines."

In Florida, "The only exception to the prohibition is for patients who commenced any prescriptions or procedures prior to or on the date of when the proposed law is signed."

https://www.foley.com/en/insights/publications/2023/05/florida-bill-gender-affirming-care-minors-adults

So, Sweden clearly provides wider access to gender affirming care than Florida.

I’m not the PP and haven’t been part of the discussion about Europe in this thread, at least that I remember, but I think this is a little loosely stated. You are comparing care protocols under socialized medicine in Sweden to legal analysis under private and public care in Florida. There typically aren’t laws passed in countries with socialized medicine over medical care because there is much less ability to go around state healthcare with private insurance. Also, the situation for adults versus children is very different. You may end up being correct in the end, but I think given the profound differences in institutional implementation of care in the two spots, it is a little early to say conclusively that “Sweden clearly provides wider access to gender affirming care than Florida.” Since Sweden just updated their care protocols for children, the actual implementation is still in process.

The Atlantic had an article on developments in Europe regarding gender affirming care for children recently:

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2023/04/gender-affirming-care-debate-europe-dutch-protocol/673890/

There is also this overview from a respected organization in Sweden about what healthcare is available and timelines under their nationalized system:

https://www.rfsl.se/en/organisation/vard-for-transpersoner/transvaard/

There is a lot going on in this thread so I don't think we need to add a debate about socialized healthcare vs private healthcare.

Fair enough, I just wanted to point out that your statement was a little strongly worded and I don’t think it is conclusively true.

I also meant to add to my post that the statement you were responding to was also loosely worded. “Scandinavia” has not banned gender affirming care for minors, which I believe was the statement made. That is just not true.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^Saying that some doctors have unethically treated people who later detrans is *not* saying they are conspiring to trick people.

That’s a leap.

You talked about "parents who are trying to stand up for themselves against unethical doctors". In other words, multiple unethical doctors are trying to convince parents to agree to unnecessary care (in your interpretation). What is the difference between that and "conspiring to trick people"?

DP. That’s a really disingenuous interpretation. Frankly I expect better from you than this.

Everyone reading can see both your words and my interpretation of them and come to their own conclusion. If you don't think that doctors are conspiring to trick parents, but you do believe that "unethical doctors" are doing something which "parents who are trying to stand up for themselves against", please explain what you actually mean?

You of all people should know what “dp” means and that I’m not the person you were engaging with or who said that. But I agree with that person’s position.

There are medical professionals who will ignore a parent’s concern and hesitation about medical treatment for a child’s gender dysphoria. That may be motivated by genuine concern for the child, by feeling pressure from their administration or colleagues, or by the financial remuneration they will receive for continuing treatment.

To say they are trying to “trick” the parent implies they believe it is the wrong treatment and are prescribing it anyway. I don’t think that’s what pp is saying. The issue is that they willfully refuse to consider other causes for the gender dysphoria, ignore parental concerns, and proceed with medical treatment that may ultimately not be in the child’s best interest. Calling this a “trick” derails the conversation and ignores the larger issues at play.

There are apparently two posters accusing me of misinterpreting the statement about "unethical doctors" and now both of them are claiming they didn't post the message that said that. So, I went back to check and it is true that it wasn't you who wrote that. But, the other poster, who actually did write it, is also denying it for some reason. I apologize for confusing the two of you.

But, you ignored the primary point of the post that led to this diversion. If you believe that all voices should be heard, then you can set an example for all of us. When you post about those who detransition, be sure to mention how they are exploited by those who are anti-trans and that some of them reverse their decision again and retransition.

This is my reply to that.

Anonymous wrote:The reason that detransitioners are embraced solely by awful republicans with ulterior motives is because everyone else tries to silence them.

What other groups support them? Who else is allowing them share their stories? You see it here in this thread that parents who are trying to stand up for themselves against unethical doctors are called liars. They’re shunned.

This is why I say trans activists should embrace them. If your goal is to ensure proper trans care, those detransitioners who are treated poorly by unethical doctors or whomever have an important voice, too.

Yes, I spend time in r/detrans. I tell you that only to indicate that these people are real with real stories and real pain and real voices.

They have nowhere to go. They were once trans. They matter, too.

Yes, some people “retransition.” Is it because they are constantly threatened by activists? Is it because the only ones standing up for them are republicans?

I can’t help but wonder.

It is simply amazing how much power you attribute to a very marginalized population. In the face of an entire political party and several state governments attempting to restrict their rights, a group armed with little more than Twitter accounts is able to convince people to transition and then bully them into retransitioning when they stray. Yet, we should not let the word "conspiracy" escape our lips.

The power doesn’t just come from a very marginalized population. That population has the White House and major corporations behind them, as well as lots of legislators. At least be honest

Yes, let's be honest. Neither the White House nor a single corporation has bullied any anti-trans person or caused someone who has detransitioned to retransition.

Meanwhile, Florida has just prohibited gender affirming care for minors and made it extremely difficult for even adults to get such care. Just ignore that and be in awe of a Pride display at Target. That's where the real power is, right?

The women who competed against Lia Thomas and who were forced to change clothes in the locker room with him naked were told that if they objected publicly they would lose scholarships and job opportunities. You don’t think that’s bullying behavior?

I agree that locker room issues present issues that might need special solutions, but I doubt your sincerity in citing this example based on your disrespectful misgendering of Lia Thomas. Please stop.

You don’t need my sincerity. The facts are these young women were bullied into accepting a naked male with exposed genitalia in their locker room.

You can’t tell me that transwomen are a marginalized powerless group when some of the best and brightest scholar athletes in this country are told they will lose scholarships and jobs if they object to what would be considered sexual harassment or indecent assault in any other context.

Penn doesn't offer athletic scholarships.

Partially true. Penn and all the Ivies give plenty of aid to recruited athletes, and even when they don't, they offer a spot the student otherwise wouldn't have gotten. This is the game that the Ivies and D1 academic schools like Colgate play--it's the only way they can compete with the big athletic schools. They end up with great students who are also great athletes--but in most cases not outstanding students or outstanding athletes. Most athletes wouldn't be at Penn, Harvard, etc. with their grades... and they're very generous with the aid. The athletes threatened with booting off the team would not be kicked out of Penn, but it would still be a huge loss for them given their love of the sport. This cuts both ways; look up the Harvard Women's Ice Hockey Coach who had it out for Native Americans, lesbians, and overweight players. She bullied many athletes off the team and left them severely psychologically damaged. Funny, it always seems to happen to women. Bottom line is, threatening students for speech or ideas is never, ever good... and threatening women athletes for voicing their discomfort with a sexual / fairness situation is extra gross.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^Saying that some doctors have unethically treated people who later detrans is *not* saying they are conspiring to trick people.

That’s a leap.

You talked about "parents who are trying to stand up for themselves against unethical doctors". In other words, multiple unethical doctors are trying to convince parents to agree to unnecessary care (in your interpretation). What is the difference between that and "conspiring to trick people"?

DP. That’s a really disingenuous interpretation. Frankly I expect better from you than this.

Everyone reading can see both your words and my interpretation of them and come to their own conclusion. If you don't think that doctors are conspiring to trick parents, but you do believe that "unethical doctors" are doing something which "parents who are trying to stand up for themselves against", please explain what you actually mean?

You of all people should know what “dp” means and that I’m not the person you were engaging with or who said that. But I agree with that person’s position.

There are medical professionals who will ignore a parent’s concern and hesitation about medical treatment for a child’s gender dysphoria. That may be motivated by genuine concern for the child, by feeling pressure from their administration or colleagues, or by the financial remuneration they will receive for continuing treatment.

To say they are trying to “trick” the parent implies they believe it is the wrong treatment and are prescribing it anyway. I don’t think that’s what pp is saying. The issue is that they willfully refuse to consider other causes for the gender dysphoria, ignore parental concerns, and proceed with medical treatment that may ultimately not be in the child’s best interest. Calling this a “trick” derails the conversation and ignores the larger issues at play.

There are apparently two posters accusing me of misinterpreting the statement about "unethical doctors" and now both of them are claiming they didn't post the message that said that. So, I went back to check and it is true that it wasn't you who wrote that. But, the other poster, who actually did write it, is also denying it for some reason. I apologize for confusing the two of you.

But, you ignored the primary point of the post that led to this diversion. If you believe that all voices should be heard, then you can set an example for all of us. When you post about those who detransition, be sure to mention how they are exploited by those who are anti-trans and that some of them reverse their decision again and retransition.

This is my reply to that.

Anonymous wrote:The reason that detransitioners are embraced solely by awful republicans with ulterior motives is because everyone else tries to silence them.

What other groups support them? Who else is allowing them share their stories? You see it here in this thread that parents who are trying to stand up for themselves against unethical doctors are called liars. They’re shunned.

This is why I say trans activists should embrace them. If your goal is to ensure proper trans care, those detransitioners who are treated poorly by unethical doctors or whomever have an important voice, too.

Yes, I spend time in r/detrans. I tell you that only to indicate that these people are real with real stories and real pain and real voices.

They have nowhere to go. They were once trans. They matter, too.

Yes, some people “retransition.” Is it because they are constantly threatened by activists? Is it because the only ones standing up for them are republicans?

I can’t help but wonder.

It is simply amazing how much power you attribute to a very marginalized population. In the face of an entire political party and several state governments attempting to restrict their rights, a group armed with little more than Twitter accounts is able to convince people to transition and then bully them into retransitioning when they stray. Yet, we should not let the word "conspiracy" escape our lips.

The power doesn’t just come from a very marginalized population. That population has the White House and major corporations behind them, as well as lots of legislators. At least be honest

Yes, let's be honest. Neither the White House nor a single corporation has bullied any anti-trans person or caused someone who has detransitioned to retransition.

Meanwhile, Florida has just prohibited gender affirming care for minors and made it extremely difficult for even adults to get such care. Just ignore that and be in awe of a Pride display at Target. That's where the real power is, right?

The women who competed against Lia Thomas and who were forced to change clothes in the locker room with him naked were told that if they objected publicly they would lose scholarships and job opportunities. You don’t think that’s bullying behavior?

I agree that locker room issues present issues that might need special solutions, but I doubt your sincerity in citing this example based on your disrespectful misgendering of Lia Thomas. Please stop.

You don’t need my sincerity. The facts are these young women were bullied into accepting a naked male with exposed genitalia in their locker room.

You can’t tell me that transwomen are a marginalized powerless group when some of the best and brightest scholar athletes in this country are told they will lose scholarships and jobs if they object to what would be considered sexual harassment or indecent assault in any other context.

Penn doesn't offer athletic scholarships.

Partially true. Penn and all the Ivies give plenty of aid to recruited athletes, and even when they don't, they offer a spot the student otherwise wouldn't have gotten. This is the game that the Ivies and D1 academic schools like Colgate play--it's the only way they can compete with the big athletic schools. They end up with great students who are also great athletes--but in most cases not outstanding students or outstanding athletes. Most athletes wouldn't be at Penn, Harvard, etc. with their grades... and they're very generous with the aid. The athletes threatened with booting off the team would not be kicked out of Penn, but it would still be a huge loss for them given their love of the sport. This cuts both ways; look up the Harvard Women's Ice Hockey Coach who had it out for Native Americans, lesbians, and overweight players. She bullied many athletes off the team and left them severely psychologically damaged. Funny, it always seems to happen to women. Bottom line is, threatening students for speech or ideas is never, ever good... and threatening women athletes for voicing their discomfort with a sexual / fairness situation is extra gross.

100% true. The only way they are "very generous with the aid" for athletes is if the athletes come from low-income families. They only give need-based financial aid, no athletic scholarships or other "aid".

As a former D1 athlete at an Ivy League school, we should be lifting up and supporting ALL of the thousands of women in sports instead of hyperfocusing on how to exclude a very small number of transgender women.

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^Saying that some doctors have unethically treated people who later detrans is *not* saying they are conspiring to trick people.

That’s a leap.

You talked about "parents who are trying to stand up for themselves against unethical doctors". In other words, multiple unethical doctors are trying to convince parents to agree to unnecessary care (in your interpretation). What is the difference between that and "conspiring to trick people"?

DP. That’s a really disingenuous interpretation. Frankly I expect better from you than this.

Everyone reading can see both your words and my interpretation of them and come to their own conclusion. If you don't think that doctors are conspiring to trick parents, but you do believe that "unethical doctors" are doing something which "parents who are trying to stand up for themselves against", please explain what you actually mean?

You of all people should know what “dp” means and that I’m not the person you were engaging with or who said that. But I agree with that person’s position.

There are medical professionals who will ignore a parent’s concern and hesitation about medical treatment for a child’s gender dysphoria. That may be motivated by genuine concern for the child, by feeling pressure from their administration or colleagues, or by the financial remuneration they will receive for continuing treatment.

To say they are trying to “trick” the parent implies they believe it is the wrong treatment and are prescribing it anyway. I don’t think that’s what pp is saying. The issue is that they willfully refuse to consider other causes for the gender dysphoria, ignore parental concerns, and proceed with medical treatment that may ultimately not be in the child’s best interest. Calling this a “trick” derails the conversation and ignores the larger issues at play.

There are apparently two posters accusing me of misinterpreting the statement about "unethical doctors" and now both of them are claiming they didn't post the message that said that. So, I went back to check and it is true that it wasn't you who wrote that. But, the other poster, who actually did write it, is also denying it for some reason. I apologize for confusing the two of you.

But, you ignored the primary point of the post that led to this diversion. If you believe that all voices should be heard, then you can set an example for all of us. When you post about those who detransition, be sure to mention how they are exploited by those who are anti-trans and that some of them reverse their decision again and retransition.

This is my reply to that.

Anonymous wrote:The reason that detransitioners are embraced solely by awful republicans with ulterior motives is because everyone else tries to silence them.

What other groups support them? Who else is allowing them share their stories? You see it here in this thread that parents who are trying to stand up for themselves against unethical doctors are called liars. They’re shunned.

This is why I say trans activists should embrace them. If your goal is to ensure proper trans care, those detransitioners who are treated poorly by unethical doctors or whomever have an important voice, too.

Yes, I spend time in r/detrans. I tell you that only to indicate that these people are real with real stories and real pain and real voices.

They have nowhere to go. They were once trans. They matter, too.

Yes, some people “retransition.” Is it because they are constantly threatened by activists? Is it because the only ones standing up for them are republicans?

I can’t help but wonder.

It is simply amazing how much power you attribute to a very marginalized population. In the face of an entire political party and several state governments attempting to restrict their rights, a group armed with little more than Twitter accounts is able to convince people to transition and then bully them into retransitioning when they stray. Yet, we should not let the word "conspiracy" escape our lips.

The power doesn’t just come from a very marginalized population. That population has the White House and major corporations behind them, as well as lots of legislators. At least be honest

Yes, let's be honest. Neither the White House nor a single corporation has bullied any anti-trans person or caused someone who has detransitioned to retransition.

Meanwhile, Florida has just prohibited gender affirming care for minors and made it extremely difficult for even adults to get such care. Just ignore that and be in awe of a Pride display at Target. That's where the real power is, right?

Really now?

https://www.dailywire.com/news/white-house-slams-texas-bill-banning-trans-athletes-from-girls-sports-hateful-bullying

Conservatives are the world's biggest snowflakes. Now, criticizing a law is considered "bullying". I'm surprised you folks can get out of bed in the morning.

Bullying is clearly in the eye of the beholder. Clearly, Biden took a stance. I can say the same for those criticizing trans people.

Biden criticized a law. He did not bully individuals. Again, you folks are such snowflakes that you want the ability to pass laws that restrict the rights of others and not be criticized. Then, the you get criticized, you consider describe it as "bullying". Poor babies.

A law that was written to protect girls, who believe it or not, are also individuals:

“I would not have brought this bill if I didn’t feel like it was important for us to protect our girls here in Texas. We’re talking hundreds of thousands of girls right now, and all the ones following them," said the author of the bill, Rep. Valoree Swanson, R-Texas House District 150.

And since liberals like yourself think guns fire themselves, I guess it makes sense you’d think laws write themselves.

Biden is going after the lawmakers who brought the bill, and the governor who signed the bill. All are individuals.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^Saying that some doctors have unethically treated people who later detrans is *not* saying they are conspiring to trick people.

That’s a leap.

You talked about "parents who are trying to stand up for themselves against unethical doctors". In other words, multiple unethical doctors are trying to convince parents to agree to unnecessary care (in your interpretation). What is the difference between that and "conspiring to trick people"?

DP. That’s a really disingenuous interpretation. Frankly I expect better from you than this.

Everyone reading can see both your words and my interpretation of them and come to their own conclusion. If you don't think that doctors are conspiring to trick parents, but you do believe that "unethical doctors" are doing something which "parents who are trying to stand up for themselves against", please explain what you actually mean?

You of all people should know what “dp” means and that I’m not the person you were engaging with or who said that. But I agree with that person’s position.

There are medical professionals who will ignore a parent’s concern and hesitation about medical treatment for a child’s gender dysphoria. That may be motivated by genuine concern for the child, by feeling pressure from their administration or colleagues, or by the financial remuneration they will receive for continuing treatment.

To say they are trying to “trick” the parent implies they believe it is the wrong treatment and are prescribing it anyway. I don’t think that’s what pp is saying. The issue is that they willfully refuse to consider other causes for the gender dysphoria, ignore parental concerns, and proceed with medical treatment that may ultimately not be in the child’s best interest. Calling this a “trick” derails the conversation and ignores the larger issues at play.

There are apparently two posters accusing me of misinterpreting the statement about "unethical doctors" and now both of them are claiming they didn't post the message that said that. So, I went back to check and it is true that it wasn't you who wrote that. But, the other poster, who actually did write it, is also denying it for some reason. I apologize for confusing the two of you.

But, you ignored the primary point of the post that led to this diversion. If you believe that all voices should be heard, then you can set an example for all of us. When you post about those who detransition, be sure to mention how they are exploited by those who are anti-trans and that some of them reverse their decision again and retransition.

This is my reply to that.

Anonymous wrote:The reason that detransitioners are embraced solely by awful republicans with ulterior motives is because everyone else tries to silence them.

What other groups support them? Who else is allowing them share their stories? You see it here in this thread that parents who are trying to stand up for themselves against unethical doctors are called liars. They’re shunned.

This is why I say trans activists should embrace them. If your goal is to ensure proper trans care, those detransitioners who are treated poorly by unethical doctors or whomever have an important voice, too.

Yes, I spend time in r/detrans. I tell you that only to indicate that these people are real with real stories and real pain and real voices.

They have nowhere to go. They were once trans. They matter, too.

Yes, some people “retransition.” Is it because they are constantly threatened by activists? Is it because the only ones standing up for them are republicans?

I can’t help but wonder.

It is simply amazing how much power you attribute to a very marginalized population. In the face of an entire political party and several state governments attempting to restrict their rights, a group armed with little more than Twitter accounts is able to convince people to transition and then bully them into retransitioning when they stray. Yet, we should not let the word "conspiracy" escape our lips.

The power doesn’t just come from a very marginalized population. That population has the White House and major corporations behind them, as well as lots of legislators. At least be honest

Yes, let's be honest. Neither the White House nor a single corporation has bullied any anti-trans person or caused someone who has detransitioned to retransition.

Meanwhile, Florida has just prohibited gender affirming care for minors and made it extremely difficult for even adults to get such care. Just ignore that and be in awe of a Pride display at Target. That's where the real power is, right?

Really now?

https://www.dailywire.com/news/white-house-slams-texas-bill-banning-trans-athletes-from-girls-sports-hateful-bullying

Conservatives are the world's biggest snowflakes. Now, criticizing a law is considered "bullying". I'm surprised you folks can get out of bed in the morning.

Bullying is clearly in the eye of the beholder. Clearly, Biden took a stance. I can say the same for those criticizing trans people.

Biden criticized a law. He did not bully individuals. Again, you folks are such snowflakes that you want the ability to pass laws that restrict the rights of others and not be criticized. Then, the you get criticized, you consider describe it as "bullying". Poor babies.

A law that was written to protect girls, who believe it or not, are also individuals:

“I would not have brought this bill if I didn’t feel like it was important for us to protect our girls here in Texas. We’re talking hundreds of thousands of girls right now, and all the ones following them," said the author of the bill, Rep. Valoree Swanson, R-Texas House District 150.

And since liberals like yourself think guns fire themselves, I guess it makes sense you’d think laws write themselves.

Biden is going after the lawmakers who brought the bill, and the governor who signed the bill. All are individuals.

Who exactly is going after women? Those same lawmakers and governor. If you want to fight misogyny, fight the actual people trying to HARM women.

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^Saying that some doctors have unethically treated people who later detrans is *not* saying they are conspiring to trick people.

That’s a leap.

You talked about "parents who are trying to stand up for themselves against unethical doctors". In other words, multiple unethical doctors are trying to convince parents to agree to unnecessary care (in your interpretation). What is the difference between that and "conspiring to trick people"?

DP. That’s a really disingenuous interpretation. Frankly I expect better from you than this.

Everyone reading can see both your words and my interpretation of them and come to their own conclusion. If you don't think that doctors are conspiring to trick parents, but you do believe that "unethical doctors" are doing something which "parents who are trying to stand up for themselves against", please explain what you actually mean?

You of all people should know what “dp” means and that I’m not the person you were engaging with or who said that. But I agree with that person’s position.

There are medical professionals who will ignore a parent’s concern and hesitation about medical treatment for a child’s gender dysphoria. That may be motivated by genuine concern for the child, by feeling pressure from their administration or colleagues, or by the financial remuneration they will receive for continuing treatment.

To say they are trying to “trick” the parent implies they believe it is the wrong treatment and are prescribing it anyway. I don’t think that’s what pp is saying. The issue is that they willfully refuse to consider other causes for the gender dysphoria, ignore parental concerns, and proceed with medical treatment that may ultimately not be in the child’s best interest. Calling this a “trick” derails the conversation and ignores the larger issues at play.

There are apparently two posters accusing me of misinterpreting the statement about "unethical doctors" and now both of them are claiming they didn't post the message that said that. So, I went back to check and it is true that it wasn't you who wrote that. But, the other poster, who actually did write it, is also denying it for some reason. I apologize for confusing the two of you.

But, you ignored the primary point of the post that led to this diversion. If you believe that all voices should be heard, then you can set an example for all of us. When you post about those who detransition, be sure to mention how they are exploited by those who are anti-trans and that some of them reverse their decision again and retransition.

This is my reply to that.

Anonymous wrote:The reason that detransitioners are embraced solely by awful republicans with ulterior motives is because everyone else tries to silence them.

What other groups support them? Who else is allowing them share their stories? You see it here in this thread that parents who are trying to stand up for themselves against unethical doctors are called liars. They’re shunned.

This is why I say trans activists should embrace them. If your goal is to ensure proper trans care, those detransitioners who are treated poorly by unethical doctors or whomever have an important voice, too.

Yes, I spend time in r/detrans. I tell you that only to indicate that these people are real with real stories and real pain and real voices.

They have nowhere to go. They were once trans. They matter, too.

Yes, some people “retransition.” Is it because they are constantly threatened by activists? Is it because the only ones standing up for them are republicans?

I can’t help but wonder.

It is simply amazing how much power you attribute to a very marginalized population. In the face of an entire political party and several state governments attempting to restrict their rights, a group armed with little more than Twitter accounts is able to convince people to transition and then bully them into retransitioning when they stray. Yet, we should not let the word "conspiracy" escape our lips.

The power doesn’t just come from a very marginalized population. That population has the White House and major corporations behind them, as well as lots of legislators. At least be honest

Yes, let's be honest. Neither the White House nor a single corporation has bullied any anti-trans person or caused someone who has detransitioned to retransition.

Meanwhile, Florida has just prohibited gender affirming care for minors and made it extremely difficult for even adults to get such care. Just ignore that and be in awe of a Pride display at Target. That's where the real power is, right?

Really now?

https://www.dailywire.com/news/white-house-slams-texas-bill-banning-trans-athletes-from-girls-sports-hateful-bullying

Conservatives are the world's biggest snowflakes. Now, criticizing a law is considered "bullying". I'm surprised you folks can get out of bed in the morning.

Bullying is clearly in the eye of the beholder. Clearly, Biden took a stance. I can say the same for those criticizing trans people.

Biden criticized a law. He did not bully individuals. Again, you folks are such snowflakes that you want the ability to pass laws that restrict the rights of others and not be criticized. Then, the you get criticized, you consider describe it as "bullying". Poor babies.

A law that was written to protect girls, who believe it or not, are also individuals:

“I would not have brought this bill if I didn’t feel like it was important for us to protect our girls here in Texas. We’re talking hundreds of thousands of girls right now, and all the ones following them," said the author of the bill, Rep. Valoree Swanson, R-Texas House District 150.

And since liberals like yourself think guns fire themselves, I guess it makes sense you’d think laws write themselves.

Biden is going after the lawmakers who brought the bill, and the governor who signed the bill. All are individuals.

Where by "going after" you mean criticizing. One side passes laws that restrict rights. The other side criticizes. You think the one criticizing is the bully. Also, you think that Texas Republicans are the protectors of women's rights. LOL.

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^Saying that some doctors have unethically treated people who later detrans is *not* saying they are conspiring to trick people.

That’s a leap.

You talked about "parents who are trying to stand up for themselves against unethical doctors". In other words, multiple unethical doctors are trying to convince parents to agree to unnecessary care (in your interpretation). What is the difference between that and "conspiring to trick people"?

DP. That’s a really disingenuous interpretation. Frankly I expect better from you than this.

Everyone reading can see both your words and my interpretation of them and come to their own conclusion. If you don't think that doctors are conspiring to trick parents, but you do believe that "unethical doctors" are doing something which "parents who are trying to stand up for themselves against", please explain what you actually mean?

You of all people should know what “dp” means and that I’m not the person you were engaging with or who said that. But I agree with that person’s position.

There are medical professionals who will ignore a parent’s concern and hesitation about medical treatment for a child’s gender dysphoria. That may be motivated by genuine concern for the child, by feeling pressure from their administration or colleagues, or by the financial remuneration they will receive for continuing treatment.

To say they are trying to “trick” the parent implies they believe it is the wrong treatment and are prescribing it anyway. I don’t think that’s what pp is saying. The issue is that they willfully refuse to consider other causes for the gender dysphoria, ignore parental concerns, and proceed with medical treatment that may ultimately not be in the child’s best interest. Calling this a “trick” derails the conversation and ignores the larger issues at play.

There are apparently two posters accusing me of misinterpreting the statement about "unethical doctors" and now both of them are claiming they didn't post the message that said that. So, I went back to check and it is true that it wasn't you who wrote that. But, the other poster, who actually did write it, is also denying it for some reason. I apologize for confusing the two of you.

But, you ignored the primary point of the post that led to this diversion. If you believe that all voices should be heard, then you can set an example for all of us. When you post about those who detransition, be sure to mention how they are exploited by those who are anti-trans and that some of them reverse their decision again and retransition.

This is my reply to that.

Anonymous wrote:The reason that detransitioners are embraced solely by awful republicans with ulterior motives is because everyone else tries to silence them.

What other groups support them? Who else is allowing them share their stories? You see it here in this thread that parents who are trying to stand up for themselves against unethical doctors are called liars. They’re shunned.

This is why I say trans activists should embrace them. If your goal is to ensure proper trans care, those detransitioners who are treated poorly by unethical doctors or whomever have an important voice, too.

Yes, I spend time in r/detrans. I tell you that only to indicate that these people are real with real stories and real pain and real voices.

They have nowhere to go. They were once trans. They matter, too.

Yes, some people “retransition.” Is it because they are constantly threatened by activists? Is it because the only ones standing up for them are republicans?

I can’t help but wonder.

It is simply amazing how much power you attribute to a very marginalized population. In the face of an entire political party and several state governments attempting to restrict their rights, a group armed with little more than Twitter accounts is able to convince people to transition and then bully them into retransitioning when they stray. Yet, we should not let the word "conspiracy" escape our lips.

The power doesn’t just come from a very marginalized population. That population has the White House and major corporations behind them, as well as lots of legislators. At least be honest

Yes, let's be honest. Neither the White House nor a single corporation has bullied any anti-trans person or caused someone who has detransitioned to retransition.

Meanwhile, Florida has just prohibited gender affirming care for minors and made it extremely difficult for even adults to get such care. Just ignore that and be in awe of a Pride display at Target. That's where the real power is, right?

Really now?

https://www.dailywire.com/news/white-house-slams-texas-bill-banning-trans-athletes-from-girls-sports-hateful-bullying

Conservatives are the world's biggest snowflakes. Now, criticizing a law is considered "bullying". I'm surprised you folks can get out of bed in the morning.

Bullying is clearly in the eye of the beholder. Clearly, Biden took a stance. I can say the same for those criticizing trans people.

Biden criticized a law. He did not bully individuals. Again, you folks are such snowflakes that you want the ability to pass laws that restrict the rights of others and not be criticized. Then, the you get criticized, you consider describe it as "bullying". Poor babies.

A law that was written to protect girls, who believe it or not, are also individuals:

“I would not have brought this bill if I didn’t feel like it was important for us to protect our girls here in Texas. We’re talking hundreds of thousands of girls right now, and all the ones following them," said the author of the bill, Rep. Valoree Swanson, R-Texas House District 150.

And since liberals like yourself think guns fire themselves, I guess it makes sense you’d think laws write themselves.

Biden is going after the lawmakers who brought the bill, and the governor who signed the bill. All are individuals.

Where by "going after" you mean criticizing. One side passes laws that restrict rights. The other side criticizes. You think the one criticizing is the bully. Also, you think that Texas Republicans are the protectors of women's rights. LOL.

Exactly.