US has no good options in Ukraine

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Who says we have no good options. Tik Tok influencers to the rescue (can't make it up...)

https://www.toddstarnes.com/politics/white-house-briefing-tiktok-stars-on-ukraine-war/

Tik Tok is how a substantial number - majority even? - of young people get their news. And Tik Tok is one social media platform still available in Russia, where it's becoming increasingly difficult to get the truth about the war to the Russian people. Another smart move by the White House.

Are you sure it’s still available in Russia? I read that they are now blocking all the foreign content.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Who says we have no good options. Tik Tok influencers to the rescue (can't make it up...)

https://www.toddstarnes.com/politics/white-house-briefing-tiktok-stars-on-ukraine-war/

Tik Tok is how a substantial number - majority even? - of young people get their news. And Tik Tok is one social media platform still available in Russia, where it's becoming increasingly difficult to get the truth about the war to the Russian people. Another smart move by the White House.

Are you sure it’s still available in Russia? I read that they are now blocking all the foreign content.

Russia has banned new video and live streaming so only old content is allowed to be seen.

Silly move by this WH. But that isn’t surprising given what they have done in the past.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

https://fair.org/home/what-you-should-really-know-about-ukraine/

Has anybody read the article above by "FAIR" (Fairness and Accuracy in Reporting)?

There is a lot of interesting material here that paints a complicated picture which, if accurate, suggests that the US has meddled a great deal in Ukraine's internal affairs, and may have even played a hand in the 2014 revolution. I'm curious to get feedback on the material presented in this article. Is it credible?

A second item that I'd like feedback on is the video below by the BBC, created in 2014, which documents the activities of neo-nazi groups in Ukraine who wish to create a "clean" (i.e. ethnically homogeneous) country.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SBo0akeDMY

This video surprised me because I had assumed that Putin's claims of nazi groups in Ukraine was absurd. Are these groups small and insignificant, or do they have some real power?

Those nazi groups were seeded and supported by Russia as part of its efforts to weaken Ukraine.

Ukraine doesn't have a Neo-nazi problem. (any more than any other Western country, including the U.S.) They elected Zelensky, who is Jewish, with over 70% of the vote. The mayor of Melitopol is Vitaly Kim, a Korean Ukrainian.

But the neo-Nazi groups in the BBC video are pro-Ukrainian, not pro-Russia. Why would Russians finance pro-Ukrainian nazi groups?

Obviously, Zelensky and the mayor are not nazis. But the BBC videos indicates that nazi groups are indeed active in Ukraine.

Russians would finance pro-Ukranian nazi groups to make Ulraine look bad and justify their invasion.

Well Ukraine, just like the Baltics, DID have a history of strong collaboration with the Nazis during the war. I don’t blame them tho. You’d collaborate too if the choice was between death or collaboration. The Baltics is a diff story bc their collaboration with the nazis was a tad too enthusiastic. Native antisemitism as a factor.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

https://fair.org/home/what-you-should-really-know-about-ukraine/

Has anybody read the article above by "FAIR" (Fairness and Accuracy in Reporting)?

There is a lot of interesting material here that paints a complicated picture which, if accurate, suggests that the US has meddled a great deal in Ukraine's internal affairs, and may have even played a hand in the 2014 revolution. I'm curious to get feedback on the material presented in this article. Is it credible?

A second item that I'd like feedback on is the video below by the BBC, created in 2014, which documents the activities of neo-nazi groups in Ukraine who wish to create a "clean" (i.e. ethnically homogeneous) country.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SBo0akeDMY

This video surprised me because I had assumed that Putin's claims of nazi groups in Ukraine was absurd. Are these groups small and insignificant, or do they have some real power?

Those nazi groups were seeded and supported by Russia as part of its efforts to weaken Ukraine.

Ukraine doesn't have a Neo-nazi problem. (any more than any other Western country, including the U.S.) They elected Zelensky, who is Jewish, with over 70% of the vote. The mayor of Melitopol is Vitaly Kim, a Korean Ukrainian.

But the neo-Nazi groups in the BBC video are pro-Ukrainian, not pro-Russia. Why would Russians finance pro-Ukrainian nazi groups?

Obviously, Zelensky and the mayor are not nazis. But the BBC videos indicates that nazi groups are indeed active in Ukraine.

Russians would finance pro-Ukranian nazi groups to make Ulraine look bad and justify their invasion.

Well Ukraine, just like the Baltics, DID have a history of strong collaboration with the Nazis during the war. I don’t blame them tho. You’d collaborate too if the choice was between death or collaboration. The Baltics is a diff story bc their collaboration with the nazis was a tad too enthusiastic. Native antisemitism as a factor.

You could say that for a lot of European countries 70 odd years ago, notably the Vichy regime that collaborated with the Nazis. But none of this is relevant to today, where the neo-Nazi minorities in Europe are not anywhere close to fomenting revolution, even with Russian disinformation and funding. All these claims of de-Nazifying Ukraine are just RIDICULOUS and NONSENSICAL.

So let's move on.

[Anonymous]

So no worries that a drone flew to Croatia without being detected or taken down? But, crashed into an urban zone?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

https://fair.org/home/what-you-should-really-know-about-ukraine/

Has anybody read the article above by "FAIR" (Fairness and Accuracy in Reporting)?

There is a lot of interesting material here that paints a complicated picture which, if accurate, suggests that the US has meddled a great deal in Ukraine's internal affairs, and may have even played a hand in the 2014 revolution. I'm curious to get feedback on the material presented in this article. Is it credible?

A second item that I'd like feedback on is the video below by the BBC, created in 2014, which documents the activities of neo-nazi groups in Ukraine who wish to create a "clean" (i.e. ethnically homogeneous) country.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SBo0akeDMY

This video surprised me because I had assumed that Putin's claims of nazi groups in Ukraine was absurd. Are these groups small and insignificant, or do they have some real power?

Those nazi groups were seeded and supported by Russia as part of its efforts to weaken Ukraine.

Ukraine doesn't have a Neo-nazi problem. (any more than any other Western country, including the U.S.) They elected Zelensky, who is Jewish, with over 70% of the vote. The mayor of Melitopol is Vitaly Kim, a Korean Ukrainian.

But the neo-Nazi groups in the BBC video are pro-Ukrainian, not pro-Russia. Why would Russians finance pro-Ukrainian nazi groups?

Obviously, Zelensky and the mayor are not nazis. But the BBC videos indicates that nazi groups are indeed active in Ukraine.

Russians would finance pro-Ukranian nazi groups to make Ulraine look bad and justify their invasion.

Well Ukraine, just like the Baltics, DID have a history of strong collaboration with the Nazis during the war. I don’t blame them tho. You’d collaborate too if the choice was between death or collaboration. The Baltics is a diff story bc their collaboration with the nazis was a tad too enthusiastic. Native antisemitism as a factor.

You could say that for a lot of European countries 70 odd years ago, notably the Vichy regime that collaborated with the Nazis. But none of this is relevant to today, where the neo-Nazi minorities in Europe are not anywhere close to fomenting revolution, even with Russian disinformation and funding. All these claims of de-Nazifying Ukraine are just RIDICULOUS and NONSENSICAL.

So let's move on.

The current claims are hogwash. There is no nazi element in legit Ukraine politics.

It’s also hogwash to say all nazi element is fomented by Russia. Some is homegrown. You give the Russians too much credit.

It’s definitely homegrown in the Baltics, the only place in Europe where SS veterans get to march in their own parade. Anywhere else in Europe they’d be tarred and feathered but not there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

https://fair.org/home/what-you-should-really-know-about-ukraine/

Has anybody read the article above by "FAIR" (Fairness and Accuracy in Reporting)?

There is a lot of interesting material here that paints a complicated picture which, if accurate, suggests that the US has meddled a great deal in Ukraine's internal affairs, and may have even played a hand in the 2014 revolution. I'm curious to get feedback on the material presented in this article. Is it credible?

A second item that I'd like feedback on is the video below by the BBC, created in 2014, which documents the activities of neo-nazi groups in Ukraine who wish to create a "clean" (i.e. ethnically homogeneous) country.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SBo0akeDMY

This video surprised me because I had assumed that Putin's claims of nazi groups in Ukraine was absurd. Are these groups small and insignificant, or do they have some real power?

Those nazi groups were seeded and supported by Russia as part of its efforts to weaken Ukraine.

Ukraine doesn't have a Neo-nazi problem. (any more than any other Western country, including the U.S.) They elected Zelensky, who is Jewish, with over 70% of the vote. The mayor of Melitopol is Vitaly Kim, a Korean Ukrainian.

But the neo-Nazi groups in the BBC video are pro-Ukrainian, not pro-Russia. Why would Russians finance pro-Ukrainian nazi groups?

Obviously, Zelensky and the mayor are not nazis. But the BBC videos indicates that nazi groups are indeed active in Ukraine.

Russians would finance pro-Ukranian nazi groups to make Ulraine look bad and justify their invasion.

Well Ukraine, just like the Baltics, DID have a history of strong collaboration with the Nazis during the war. I don’t blame them tho. You’d collaborate too if the choice was between death or collaboration. The Baltics is a diff story bc their collaboration with the nazis was a tad too enthusiastic. Native antisemitism as a factor.

You could say that for a lot of European countries 70 odd years ago, notably the Vichy regime that collaborated with the Nazis. But none of this is relevant to today, where the neo-Nazi minorities in Europe are not anywhere close to fomenting revolution, even with Russian disinformation and funding. All these claims of de-Nazifying Ukraine are just RIDICULOUS and NONSENSICAL.

So let's move on.

The current claims are hogwash. There is no nazi element in legit Ukraine politics.

It’s also hogwash to say all nazi element is fomented by Russia. Some is homegrown. You give the Russians too much credit.

It’s definitely homegrown in the Baltics, the only place in Europe where SS veterans get to march in their own parade. Anywhere else in Europe they’d be tarred and feathered but not there.

I never said they were all fomented by Russia! You just want to argue endlessly when we could discuss something else. There are neo-Nazis in every country. They are a tiny minority. Even with Russian help, they're not going to amount to anything.

Next subject.

[Anonymous]

The Azov Battalion is real. Doesn’t mean Putin isn’t a crazy dictator, but it isn’t true that Ukraine has no neo Nazis.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Who says we have no good options. Tik Tok influencers to the rescue (can't make it up...)

https://www.toddstarnes.com/politics/white-house-briefing-tiktok-stars-on-ukraine-war/

Reach the youth where it's at. All the better that Tik Tok is a Chinese company.

And, feed them misinformation while you're at it.....

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Robert Gates: "Biden has been wrong on nearly every major foreign policy and national security issue over the past four decades.”

I am certain he would say the same thing if asked today.

Obviously, you disagree, but I think this was a good move by Biden. By playing it very slow and cool, so far, I think Biden has done the best job that could be done by the US right now. While we will back up and support, this is Europe's war right now, to escalate or soften, as they need to. The longer that Russia bleeds, the better, for everyone.

I strongly disagree. Putin views Biden as weak. Because he is. And, this move reinforces that.
Biden is letting Putin call the shots.
Biden has done a piss poor job. And, deciding not to send the planes that Ukraine needs is a cowardly move by Biden.

And, remember.... when Russia bleeds, so do innocent Ukrainians. That is NOT better for them.

This is debatable. Ukraine can't use the planes it already has because Russia has better anit-aircraft weapons. Those Polish planes would sit on the ground in Ukraine.

What Ukraine really needs is a no-fly zone, but that would involve NATO in direct conflict with Russia. NATO planes would have to shoot down Russian planes.

There are no good options for the US in Ukraine. I think Biden made the best decision he could about the Polish planes.

Ukraine is fighting the war.... not the US. But, the US seems to be deciding what they "need" and don't need.
If we want to give them a fighting chance, why don't we let the people who are actually fighting the war decide what they need?
And, there was a brief point in time when our govt. was supportive of providing planes to them. Then we weren't. What happened there?

I would imagine this was because Putin has his nukes in high apart and could easily have used this as justification to start a nuclear war.

It is hard to be rational with a psychopathic, paranoid, war criminal …

In case you haven't noticed...... Putin doesn't need justification for ANY actions he has taken.
He invaded a sovereign country without justification. He has bombed hospitals and apartments without justification. Everything he has done is without justification.
Biden and crew are allowing Putin to set the terms for this war. Putin knows they are weak. Putin will continue to push the limits because he knows he is dealing with a cowardly administration.

The administration is not weak, they have taken increasingly punitive actions, some very severe ones. They know we are at war and this is just the opening act. Maybe they are trying to slowly walk Americans to the realization we are at war, a global war.

I think they are slow walking, because the truth is that we are nog ready for full scale war. First job is to shovel as much weapons, ammunition and defensive systems as possible into Ukraine before Russia starts bombing supply convoys (as they first threatened to do today). It’s better to try to stop the Russian advance through Ukraine and destroy as much as possible there now.

Second job(on a simultaneous track) is to start moving US and NATO troop much closer to the Eastern flank. We do not have sufficient manpower and weapons there yet to stop additional Russian forces. It’s preferable to stop Russia in Eastern Poland and Baltics and prevent closure of Suwalki Gap, but I’m not sure we are sufficiently positioned to do so right now.

Really, what are you talking about?
This is not 1944.

Within 10 days of NATO contact with Russia this will be nuclear. Real, unlimited nuclear warfare.

[Anonymous]

No one on this thread has ever claimed there aren’t neo Nazis in Ukraine. In fact multiple people have pointed out that Ukraine, like just about every country has some neo Nazis problems. But to suggest they have an real power and influence in the government and politics is absurd

[Anonymous]

Ukraine also has an imperial Empire element.

I remember like 6 years ago literally Darth Vader ran for office. It was classic. Someone find the commercial of Vader playing the violin as a campaign ad.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

https://fair.org/home/what-you-should-really-know-about-ukraine/

Has anybody read the article above by "FAIR" (Fairness and Accuracy in Reporting)?

There is a lot of interesting material here that paints a complicated picture which, if accurate, suggests that the US has meddled a great deal in Ukraine's internal affairs, and may have even played a hand in the 2014 revolution. I'm curious to get feedback on the material presented in this article. Is it credible?

A second item that I'd like feedback on is the video below by the BBC, created in 2014, which documents the activities of neo-nazi groups in Ukraine who wish to create a "clean" (i.e. ethnically homogeneous) country.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SBo0akeDMY

This video surprised me because I had assumed that Putin's claims of nazi groups in Ukraine was absurd. Are these groups small and insignificant, or do they have some real power?

Those nazi groups were seeded and supported by Russia as part of its efforts to weaken Ukraine.

Ukraine doesn't have a Neo-nazi problem. (any more than any other Western country, including the U.S.) They elected Zelensky, who is Jewish, with over 70% of the vote. The mayor of Melitopol is Vitaly Kim, a Korean Ukrainian.

But the neo-Nazi groups in the BBC video are pro-Ukrainian, not pro-Russia. Why would Russians finance pro-Ukrainian nazi groups?

Obviously, Zelensky and the mayor are not nazis. But the BBC videos indicates that nazi groups are indeed active in Ukraine.

Russians would finance pro-Ukranian nazi groups to make Ulraine look bad and justify their invasion.

Well Ukraine, just like the Baltics, DID have a history of strong collaboration with the Nazis during the war. I don’t blame them tho. You’d collaborate too if the choice was between death or collaboration. The Baltics is a diff story bc their collaboration with the nazis was a tad too enthusiastic. Native antisemitism as a factor.

There was plenty of anti-semitism in Russia too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The Azov Battalion is real. Doesn’t mean Putin isn’t a crazy dictator, but it isn’t true that Ukraine has no neo Nazis.

Russia has them too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The Azov Battalion is real. Doesn’t mean Putin isn’t a crazy dictator, but it isn’t true that Ukraine has no neo Nazis.

Of course Ukraine has neo Nazis. Who doesn’t? Remember “Jews will not replace us” in Charlottesville? But, hey, fine people on both sides, right?