HBO The Undoing

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I looked it up and Hugh Grant is 60 and Nicole Kidman is 53. They are about 15 years too old to play those characters, even in Manhattan and for their lifestyle.

Also, their witty sexual banter is like watching grandparents flirt.

Also, leave it to David E. Kelly to have a completely naked woman who is stunning in a locker room in the first episode.

DH and I thought the naked woman looked like Hispanic Jennifer Lawrence.

I’m not sure I can get into this one. It’s supposed to be mocking the ultra-rich, this time in NYC, but it ends up glorifying them.

I’m just now starting this series, so I haven’t read the thread - but some things don’t make sense to me. Elena wasn’t wealthy - her son attended the private school on scholarship. So how did she swing a fancy gym membership? Also, why doesn’t Grace ever ask Jonathan why he pretended to go to a medical conference in Cleveland? What was the point of that story, made up before the evening when Elena was killed?

Jonathon paid for all of it. The kid got in on scholarship. Jonathon financed her lifestyle. He borrowed 1/2 million from Grace’s father.

Wasn’t the money to replace the money he lost from his job to keep up the lifestyle? I didn’t get that he was lavishing money on his tryst.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Can we talk about the opening sequence of each episode?? Until the finale, I assumed the young red- headed girl was Grace as a little girl and then they show her in her wedding dress when she married Jonathon. But NOOO... the little girl was Jonathan’s 4 year old sister who died, and he purposely married Grace because she looked like his dead sister with the wavy red hair! What a sociopath!!!

That would seem to argue against his being a sociopath, wouldn’t it? If he’s haunted by the specter of this child and looks for her in a mate? Sociopaths don’t carry any emotional baggage. You can’t have it both ways.

Good point. But what other explanation is there?

Total coincidence. We redheads do exist!

Wouldn’t the obvious explanation be that the little girl simply represents Nicole Kidman as a child?

Especially with Nicole Kidman singing the track over the intro.

Rancid? I don't know what you mean by that. But I thought the intro did it's job well: the beautiful little girl and Nicole Kidman singing ... you just know you're being set up.

The whole intro was so rancid that I skipped over it every time, after watching it once in dumb horror.

It was completely vapid and nonsensical, and the song was terrible.

It wasn’t nonsensical if you watch the entire series and then watch the intro.

I think that it would be slightly better if you could watch the ending after the show and get a clearer idea what the ending meant. It was still unclear.

Ok, I’ve watched the entire series and still don’t understand how the opening song relates at all to the story. I know it’s a cover of a Mamas and Papas song (which I love) but not seeing any connection between the lyrics and images of a (presumably) young Grace, and the plot. Maybe there’s not supposed to be any connection. It just... is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I looked it up and Hugh Grant is 60 and Nicole Kidman is 53. They are about 15 years too old to play those characters, even in Manhattan and for their lifestyle.

Also, their witty sexual banter is like watching grandparents flirt.

Also, leave it to David E. Kelly to have a completely naked woman who is stunning in a locker room in the first episode.

DH and I thought the naked woman looked like Hispanic Jennifer Lawrence.

I’m not sure I can get into this one. It’s supposed to be mocking the ultra-rich, this time in NYC, but it ends up glorifying them.

I’m just now starting this series, so I haven’t read the thread - but some things don’t make sense to me. Elena wasn’t wealthy - her son attended the private school on scholarship. So how did she swing a fancy gym membership? Also, why doesn’t Grace ever ask Jonathan why he pretended to go to a medical conference in Cleveland? What was the point of that story, made up before the evening when Elena was killed?

A specialist in his position would go to conferences at least a few times a year, so pretending he was still going to conferences was a necessary part of maintaining the illusion that he was still employed.

NP. This was one part that didn't make sense to me. Even if they are a high income household with separate accounts, wouldn't his wife notice that his paychecks had stopped coming, or that they got dropped from their health insurance or that his work emails bounced or something? I find it really hard to believe you could be unemployed for months without your spouse figuring out that something was up. Also, she never ran into any of his colleagues or their spouses or former patients on the street or at the gym or anything? You'd think word would have gotten to her one way or another within a few weeks that he was out of a job.

DP. I agree. There were several weak links in this story and that was one of them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Sutherland's eyebrows would have prevented him from seeing clearly enough to hit her in the head so many times. He is innocent.

Best post.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can we talk about the opening sequence of each episode?? Until the finale, I assumed the young red- headed girl was Grace as a little girl and then they show her in her wedding dress when she married Jonathon. But NOOO... the little girl was Jonathan’s 4 year old sister who died, and he purposely married Grace because she looked like his dead sister with the wavy red hair! What a sociopath!!!

That would seem to argue against his being a sociopath, wouldn’t it? If he’s haunted by the specter of this child and looks for her in a mate? Sociopaths don’t carry any emotional baggage. You can’t have it both ways.

Good point. But what other explanation is there?

Total coincidence. We redheads do exist!

Wouldn’t the obvious explanation be that the little girl simply represents Nicole Kidman as a child?

Especially with Nicole Kidman singing the track over the intro.

Rancid? I don't know what you mean by that. But I thought the intro did it's job well: the beautiful little girl and Nicole Kidman singing ... you just know you're being set up.

The whole intro was so rancid that I skipped over it every time, after watching it once in dumb horror.

It was completely vapid and nonsensical, and the song was terrible.

It wasn’t nonsensical if you watch the entire series and then watch the intro.

I think that it would be slightly better if you could watch the ending after the show and get a clearer idea what the ending meant. It was still unclear.

Ok, I’ve watched the entire series and still don’t understand how the opening song relates at all to the story. I know it’s a cover of a Mamas and Papas song (which I love) but not seeing any connection between the lyrics and images of a (presumably) young Grace, and the plot. Maybe there’s not supposed to be any connection. It just... is.

This.

[Anonymous]

Ok, I’ve watched the entire series and still don’t understand how the opening song relates at all to the story. I know it’s a cover of a Mamas and Papas song (which I love) but not seeing any connection between the lyrics and images of a (presumably) young Grace, and the plot. Maybe there’s not supposed to be any connection. It just... is.

The girl in the opening isn’t Grace, it’s Jonathan’s young sister who died under his watch. You can see boy Jonathan’s reflection in a puddle at one point in the intro.

The opening looks like a dreamy, pleasant scene that goes with the song unless you know the “reality” behind it, in which case it comes across much more tragic and sinister. The song is an old one, much older than The Mamas and the Papas.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Ok, I’ve watched the entire series and still don’t understand how the opening song relates at all to the story. I know it’s a cover of a Mamas and Papas song (which I love) but not seeing any connection between the lyrics and images of a (presumably) young Grace, and the plot. Maybe there’s not supposed to be any connection. It just... is.

The girl in the opening isn’t Grace, it’s Jonathan’s young sister who died under his watch. You can see boy Jonathan’s reflection in a puddle at one point in the intro.

The opening looks like a dreamy, pleasant scene that goes with the song unless you know the “reality” behind it, in which case it comes across much more tragic and sinister. The song is an old one, much older than The Mamas and the Papas.

So all of you who liked the intro, weren’t you like WTF is all this until the end? You weren’t at all befuddled and turned off by it since there was no way to understand it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am clearly the exception and liked it. The whole point was that we saw it from Grace’s perspective and she was willfully blinding herself to what he really was until the murder. It was all about the undoing of her seemingly perfect life. Too many shows go for twisted endings and they make no sense. This one toyed with you but delivered a realistic end.

I liked it too. And I actually thought Hugh Grant did a decent job of looking pretty darn evil - especially in court after Grace set him up for conviction.

The whole idea was that Grace could see everyone’s blind spots but her own - like in the counseling scenes with the third marriage lady and the abusive husband squeezing his husband’s arm.

+1
I kept thinking back to those counseling sessions and wondering why they were such a big part of those episodes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Ok, I’ve watched the entire series and still don’t understand how the opening song relates at all to the story. I know it’s a cover of a Mamas and Papas song (which I love) but not seeing any connection between the lyrics and images of a (presumably) young Grace, and the plot. Maybe there’s not supposed to be any connection. It just... is.

The girl in the opening isn’t Grace, it’s Jonathan’s young sister who died under his watch. You can see boy Jonathan’s reflection in a puddle at one point in the intro.

The opening looks like a dreamy, pleasant scene that goes with the song unless you know the “reality” behind it, in which case it comes across much more tragic and sinister. The song is an old one, much older than The Mamas and the Papas.

Ok, this is not at ALL what I took from the opening. It’s a young Grace living in her perfectly pleasant dreamworld until all of that “pops,” like the bubbles. It has nothing to do with the younger sister.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Ok, I’ve watched the entire series and still don’t understand how the opening song relates at all to the story. I know it’s a cover of a Mamas and Papas song (which I love) but not seeing any connection between the lyrics and images of a (presumably) young Grace, and the plot. Maybe there’s not supposed to be any connection. It just... is.

The girl in the opening isn’t Grace, it’s Jonathan’s young sister who died under his watch. You can see boy Jonathan’s reflection in a puddle at one point in the intro.

The opening looks like a dreamy, pleasant scene that goes with the song unless you know the “reality” behind it, in which case it comes across much more tragic and sinister. The song is an old one, much older than The Mamas and the Papas.

Nope.

https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2020/10/undoing-nicole-kidman-singing-opening-credits-song-dream-a-little-dream

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Ok, I’ve watched the entire series and still don’t understand how the opening song relates at all to the story. I know it’s a cover of a Mamas and Papas song (which I love) but not seeing any connection between the lyrics and images of a (presumably) young Grace, and the plot. Maybe there’s not supposed to be any connection. It just... is.

The girl in the opening isn’t Grace, it’s Jonathan’s young sister who died under his watch. You can see boy Jonathan’s reflection in a puddle at one point in the intro.

The opening looks like a dreamy, pleasant scene that goes with the song unless you know the “reality” behind it, in which case it comes across much more tragic and sinister. The song is an old one, much older than The Mamas and the Papas.

Ok, this is not at ALL what I took from the opening. It’s a young Grace living in her perfectly pleasant dreamworld until all of that “pops,” like the bubbles. It has nothing to do with the younger sister.

Ok. With the reflection of the boy in the puddle looking down at the ground, the blood dripping, and the British power outlets, I respectfully disagree.

[Anonymous]

I never watch opening credits.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why didn’t the prosecutor bring up the facts surrounding his firing from the hospital? Seems like that would have helped her case.

+1
I was wondering that too. And the fact that he lies about being at a conference.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Ok, I’ve watched the entire series and still don’t understand how the opening song relates at all to the story. I know it’s a cover of a Mamas and Papas song (which I love) but not seeing any connection between the lyrics and images of a (presumably) young Grace, and the plot. Maybe there’s not supposed to be any connection. It just... is.

The girl in the opening isn’t Grace, it’s Jonathan’s young sister who died under his watch. You can see boy Jonathan’s reflection in a puddle at one point in the intro.

The opening looks like a dreamy, pleasant scene that goes with the song unless you know the “reality” behind it, in which case it comes across much more tragic and sinister. The song is an old one, much older than The Mamas and the Papas.

Nope.

https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2020/10/undoing-nicole-kidman-singing-opening-credits-song-dream-a-little-dream

This was written in October when yes, as the VF writer notes, the viewer is "meant to assume" the redhead is Grace. But just as you assume there is a twist and the murderer isn't Jonathan, you assume it's Grace but it isn't. The ending shows it was the sister and you were fooled, just like you were fooled into thinking the murderer was the friend, or Sutherland, or Kidman herself.

Kidman doesn't want to "leave the dream world" about her relationship with Jonathan until her life is shattered, and part of that involves learning about the sister.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Ok, I’ve watched the entire series and still don’t understand how the opening song relates at all to the story. I know it’s a cover of a Mamas and Papas song (which I love) but not seeing any connection between the lyrics and images of a (presumably) young Grace, and the plot. Maybe there’s not supposed to be any connection. It just... is.

The girl in the opening isn’t Grace, it’s Jonathan’s young sister who died under his watch. You can see boy Jonathan’s reflection in a puddle at one point in the intro.

The opening looks like a dreamy, pleasant scene that goes with the song unless you know the “reality” behind it, in which case it comes across much more tragic and sinister. The song is an old one, much older than The Mamas and the Papas.

Ok, this is not at ALL what I took from the opening. It’s a young Grace living in her perfectly pleasant dreamworld until all of that “pops,” like the bubbles. It has nothing to do with the younger sister.

Ok. With the reflection of the boy in the puddle looking down at the ground, the blood dripping, and the British power outlets, I respectfully disagree.

+1