SWW Principal Removed - Reason Unknown

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wonder how the Banneker folks are feeling so proud when they only graduate less than 20 kids with IB diplomas each year and they are a preferential admissions school?

Banneker is a magnet in name only. They make most of the incoming 9th graders repeat 8th grade math. My kid is at Banneker for 9th. Not impressed so far. Forced to repeat 8th grade math with 75% of the incoming class. Way too much hw, decent amount of busy work. My kid did not get into Walls but wants to apply again for next year. School communication is terrible. All the emphasis seems to be on academic work. No clubs or activities. If this is the best DCPS can offer, it is sad.

That’s the way Banneker has been for years. And I think the forcing everyone to take Algebra I in 9th grade makes the school much less appealing to kids in advanced math classes in middle school.

It makes sense when you realize that Algebra I in 8th grade is often a recipe for disaster. It is better to get every student on the same page, especially in math than to push kids, many of whom did not get adequate instruction on the subject in middle school, to higher levels of math just so the school can look good.

At Walls, despite my DS literally begging anyone who would listen to let him retake algebra I freshman year, they forced him to take geometry, and then algebra II. They straight up told me when I brought it up that the only reason DS wanted to take algebra I was so he could get an 'easy A' on a subject he already knew. This despite the fact that on multiple occasions DS had explained that his algebra I teacher left his middle school a few months into the school year he was taking it, and the remainder of the class had been taught by a rotating cast of substitutes, administrators, and younger grade math teachers who had never taught the subject before.

And from my experience not just with DS, but also with my younger kids (who, for obvious reasons, did not go to that middle school) and kids I knew is that the quality of Algebra I classes in middle school is not nearly as good as in high schools, and many schools, especially 10-12 years ago when it was the 'hot new thing' in middle school education to teach it, were not prepared to teach it effectively. While kids who are naturally gifted at math can generally piece it together, many who are not (like DS) were utterly failed. And this decision can set people back, math requires people to understand each piece before moving on, and I honestly think that one decision to refuse to let DS retake Algebra I seriously hurt his mathematical understanding for years to come.

Especially at a school like Banneker - whose student population tends to be less well off then Walls or Wilson or other comparable environments - it makes total sense to teach every student Algebra I as a building block to ensure competency. It actually fits right into their mold, which is a highly academic institution designed to provide a challenging, but effective education using more traditional methods. It is not a school for everyone - they have been very open about that - its not the school for the parents who want their kid to get an associates degree at high school graduation, or for kids who don't have the drive to succeed under traditional educational concepts - but its outcomes are far better then those at comparable schools because those traditional concepts - hard work, repetition, high expectations - are highly effective.

I am surprised to hear they made your DS take Geometry instead of Alg I at Walls, and am sorry they didn’t allow a student who was advocating for themselves take the best class for him.

Banneker is a really good school and I agree it has a very specific mission. What needs to be mentioned is that kids are counseled out of the school, especially boys, at quite a high rate. There are questionable practices around supporting some students versus pushing them out of the school.

Walls counsels out quite a few students too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wonder how the Banneker folks are feeling so proud when they only graduate less than 20 kids with IB diplomas each year and they are a preferential admissions school?

Banneker is a magnet in name only. They make most of the incoming 9th graders repeat 8th grade math. My kid is at Banneker for 9th. Not impressed so far. Forced to repeat 8th grade math with 75% of the incoming class. Way too much hw, decent amount of busy work. My kid did not get into Walls but wants to apply again for next year. School communication is terrible. All the emphasis seems to be on academic work. No clubs or activities. If this is the best DCPS can offer, it is sad.

That’s the way Banneker has been for years. And I think the forcing everyone to take Algebra I in 9th grade makes the school much less appealing to kids in advanced math classes in middle school.

It makes sense when you realize that Algebra I in 8th grade is often a recipe for disaster. It is better to get every student on the same page, especially in math than to push kids, many of whom did not get adequate instruction on the subject in middle school, to higher levels of math just so the school can look good.

At Walls, despite my DS literally begging anyone who would listen to let him retake algebra I freshman year, they forced him to take geometry, and then algebra II. They straight up told me when I brought it up that the only reason DS wanted to take algebra I was so he could get an 'easy A' on a subject he already knew. This despite the fact that on multiple occasions DS had explained that his algebra I teacher left his middle school a few months into the school year he was taking it, and the remainder of the class had been taught by a rotating cast of substitutes, administrators, and younger grade math teachers who had never taught the subject before.

And from my experience not just with DS, but also with my younger kids (who, for obvious reasons, did not go to that middle school) and kids I knew is that the quality of Algebra I classes in middle school is not nearly as good as in high schools, and many schools, especially 10-12 years ago when it was the 'hot new thing' in middle school education to teach it, were not prepared to teach it effectively. While kids who are naturally gifted at math can generally piece it together, many who are not (like DS) were utterly failed. And this decision can set people back, math requires people to understand each piece before moving on, and I honestly think that one decision to refuse to let DS retake Algebra I seriously hurt his mathematical understanding for years to come.

Especially at a school like Banneker - whose student population tends to be less well off then Walls or Wilson or other comparable environments - it makes total sense to teach every student Algebra I as a building block to ensure competency. It actually fits right into their mold, which is a highly academic institution designed to provide a challenging, but effective education using more traditional methods. It is not a school for everyone - they have been very open about that - its not the school for the parents who want their kid to get an associates degree at high school graduation, or for kids who don't have the drive to succeed under traditional educational concepts - but its outcomes are far better then those at comparable schools because those traditional concepts - hard work, repetition, high expectations - are highly effective.

I am surprised to hear they made your DS take Geometry instead of Alg I at Walls, and am sorry they didn’t allow a student who was advocating for themselves take the best class for him.

Banneker is a really good school and I agree it has a very specific mission. What needs to be mentioned is that kids are counseled out of the school, especially boys, at quite a high rate. There are questionable practices around supporting some students versus pushing them out of the school.

Walls counsels out quite a few students too.

PP and I can’t speak to that but I know Banneker does and it is specifically boys who are counseled out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wonder how the Banneker folks are feeling so proud when they only graduate less than 20 kids with IB diplomas each year and they are a preferential admissions school?

Banneker is a magnet in name only. They make most of the incoming 9th graders repeat 8th grade math. My kid is at Banneker for 9th. Not impressed so far. Forced to repeat 8th grade math with 75% of the incoming class. Way too much hw, decent amount of busy work. My kid did not get into Walls but wants to apply again for next year. School communication is terrible. All the emphasis seems to be on academic work. No clubs or activities. If this is the best DCPS can offer, it is sad.

That’s the way Banneker has been for years. And I think the forcing everyone to take Algebra I in 9th grade makes the school much less appealing to kids in advanced math classes in middle school.

It makes sense when you realize that Algebra I in 8th grade is often a recipe for disaster. It is better to get every student on the same page, especially in math than to push kids, many of whom did not get adequate instruction on the subject in middle school, to higher levels of math just so the school can look good.

At Walls, despite my DS literally begging anyone who would listen to let him retake algebra I freshman year, they forced him to take geometry, and then algebra II. They straight up told me when I brought it up that the only reason DS wanted to take algebra I was so he could get an 'easy A' on a subject he already knew. This despite the fact that on multiple occasions DS had explained that his algebra I teacher left his middle school a few months into the school year he was taking it, and the remainder of the class had been taught by a rotating cast of substitutes, administrators, and younger grade math teachers who had never taught the subject before.

And from my experience not just with DS, but also with my younger kids (who, for obvious reasons, did not go to that middle school) and kids I knew is that the quality of Algebra I classes in middle school is not nearly as good as in high schools, and many schools, especially 10-12 years ago when it was the 'hot new thing' in middle school education to teach it, were not prepared to teach it effectively. While kids who are naturally gifted at math can generally piece it together, many who are not (like DS) were utterly failed. And this decision can set people back, math requires people to understand each piece before moving on, and I honestly think that one decision to refuse to let DS retake Algebra I seriously hurt his mathematical understanding for years to come.

Especially at a school like Banneker - whose student population tends to be less well off then Walls or Wilson or other comparable environments - it makes total sense to teach every student Algebra I as a building block to ensure competency. It actually fits right into their mold, which is a highly academic institution designed to provide a challenging, but effective education using more traditional methods. It is not a school for everyone - they have been very open about that - its not the school for the parents who want their kid to get an associates degree at high school graduation, or for kids who don't have the drive to succeed under traditional educational concepts - but its outcomes are far better then those at comparable schools because those traditional concepts - hard work, repetition, high expectations - are highly effective.

My kid is by no stretch of the imagination a math whiz, and he would have been bored senseless if he had re-taken Algebra in 9th grade. As it was, he LOVED geometry and did really well in it in 9th grade.

What I think you should be advocating for is sensible math placement and allowing kids to chose what class makes sense. My kid opted out of AP calc and tool regular old on-level calculus because he wanted to learn the material but knew he wouldn't really get it if he was racing to keep up all the time. In the opinion of my buddy who teaches college physics, this should be much more common because, as you say, a lot of kids who take accelerated math are not ready for it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Hey- I’m late to this thread. Can someone help me connect the dots between his firing and the WTU?
Or are we ready to change the narrative a bit & say that maybe folks like the WTU and this principal are actually looking out for your kids?

+1000

And same thing is happening in the Private schools- parents are paying hefty tuition and don’t realize the flaws in the buildings , are over trusting about what COVID safety measures they imagine exist inside the building - that were simply never implemented-

Yes, promised to parents before contract signing but - never implemented

And teacher who speaks up is put on unpaid leave -HR even filling out their forms for them and checking “ serious health condition “ box - when the teacher is perfectly healthy

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That’s not how government/school HR works. If this was in reaction to something that was going on right now, or very recently, he would have been put on leave, he would not have been fired. HR stuff takes a long time to play out in government - especially for a tenured principal. This is more likely the final stage of a process that began a while ago. I doubt this is COVID related at all - and certainly not due to immediate safety concerns.

I worked in Central Office. While what you say makes sense in theory, you are truly naive if you assume that egos, perceptions of being in control, and perceptions of allegiance are not stronger than reason.

If the SWW Principal was outspoken about not trusting the plan to reopen schools, and especially if he publicly raised actual specific concerns, you are fooling yourself if you think that a Chancellor and/or a Mayor wouldn't fire him out of a sense of making an example of him for what happens if you openly challenge a plan like this. EVEN IF ITS THE PRINCIPAL OF ONE OF *THE* MOST SUCCESSFUL AND POPULAR DCPS SCHOOLS.

I do not have inside info as I don't work there anymore, but I'm sure if I call around I'll hear exactly what I've said.

Also to you PP, another thing you're wrong about is the idea that if a longer term personnel issue was working its way through the process and ultimately ended in a decision to fire a principal, in most cases and definitely in the case of SWW there would be far more car put to timing and how it was communicated. DCPS has known they were going to fire plenty of Principals early in the school year but waited at least until the end of a term but even until the end of the school year to notify the Principal and announce it to staff and then parents.

This was sudden, and for some reason urgent for Chancellor & Mayor to do quickly. That screams "spin control". If there was a "good reason" or a legitimate safety or personnel process decision, there would be hints or direct statements about why. This messaging... is because there is no good reason.

I know the reputation of Walls and This is awful for the ethos of the school - DC parents have sought it out because they felt they could trust its leadership .
Hint : those parents won’t send their kids to a school run by a spineless stooge

Likely this Principal’s warnings were prescient - cases hit 90 K a day yesterday.

Does anyone know if he was fired , he is free to talk, right ? No NDA for severance offfered, right ?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That’s not how government/school HR works. If this was in reaction to something that was going on right now, or very recently, he would have been put on leave, he would not have been fired. HR stuff takes a long time to play out in government - especially for a tenured principal. This is more likely the final stage of a process that began a while ago. I doubt this is COVID related at all - and certainly not due to immediate safety concerns.

I worked in Central Office. While what you say makes sense in theory, you are truly naive if you assume that egos, perceptions of being in control, and perceptions of allegiance are not stronger than reason.

If the SWW Principal was outspoken about not trusting the plan to reopen schools, and especially if he publicly raised actual specific concerns, you are fooling yourself if you think that a Chancellor and/or a Mayor wouldn't fire him out of a sense of making an example of him for what happens if you openly challenge a plan like this. EVEN IF ITS THE PRINCIPAL OF ONE OF *THE* MOST SUCCESSFUL AND POPULAR DCPS SCHOOLS.

I do not have inside info as I don't work there anymore, but I'm sure if I call around I'll hear exactly what I've said.

Also to you PP, another thing you're wrong about is the idea that if a longer term personnel issue was working its way through the process and ultimately ended in a decision to fire a principal, in most cases and definitely in the case of SWW there would be far more car put to timing and how it was communicated. DCPS has known they were going to fire plenty of Principals early in the school year but waited at least until the end of a term but even until the end of the school year to notify the Principal and announce it to staff and then parents.

This was sudden, and for some reason urgent for Chancellor & Mayor to do quickly. That screams "spin control". If there was a "good reason" or a legitimate safety or personnel process decision, there would be hints or direct statements about why. This messaging... is because there is no good reason.

I know the reputation of Walls and This is awful for the ethos of the school - DC parents have sought it out because they felt they could trust its leadership .
Hint : those parents won’t send their kids to a school run by a spineless stooge

Likely this Principal’s warnings were prescient - cases hit 90 K a day yesterday.

Does anyone know if he was fired , he is free to talk, right ? No NDA for severance offfered, right ?

He has a lawyer - not talking

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That’s not how government/school HR works. If this was in reaction to something that was going on right now, or very recently, he would have been put on leave, he would not have been fired. HR stuff takes a long time to play out in government - especially for a tenured principal. This is more likely the final stage of a process that began a while ago. I doubt this is COVID related at all - and certainly not due to immediate safety concerns.

I worked in Central Office. While what you say makes sense in theory, you are truly naive if you assume that egos, perceptions of being in control, and perceptions of allegiance are not stronger than reason.

If the SWW Principal was outspoken about not trusting the plan to reopen schools, and especially if he publicly raised actual specific concerns, you are fooling yourself if you think that a Chancellor and/or a Mayor wouldn't fire him out of a sense of making an example of him for what happens if you openly challenge a plan like this. EVEN IF ITS THE PRINCIPAL OF ONE OF *THE* MOST SUCCESSFUL AND POPULAR DCPS SCHOOLS.

I do not have inside info as I don't work there anymore, but I'm sure if I call around I'll hear exactly what I've said.

Also to you PP, another thing you're wrong about is the idea that if a longer term personnel issue was working its way through the process and ultimately ended in a decision to fire a principal, in most cases and definitely in the case of SWW there would be far more car put to timing and how it was communicated. DCPS has known they were going to fire plenty of Principals early in the school year but waited at least until the end of a term but even until the end of the school year to notify the Principal and announce it to staff and then parents.

This was sudden, and for some reason urgent for Chancellor & Mayor to do quickly. That screams "spin control". If there was a "good reason" or a legitimate safety or personnel process decision, there would be hints or direct statements about why. This messaging... is because there is no good reason.

I know the reputation of Walls and This is awful for the ethos of the school - DC parents have sought it out because they felt they could trust its leadership .
Hint : those parents won’t send their kids to a school run by a spineless stooge

Likely this Principal’s warnings were prescient - cases hit 90 K a day yesterday.

Does anyone know if he was fired , he is free to talk, right ? No NDA for severance offfered, right ?

Eh I don’t think parents sent their kids to Walls for Trogisch. It’s a good public school option for motivated students. And the GW program is a real draw for some parents. And please trust that most principals can be spineless at times. It just depends on who the child’s parent is and how much power/money they have. Walls is no exception.

[Anonymous]

What do you mean? Trogisch is the force that built both schools into what they are! Count on DCPS to hire a clueless, spineless syncophant who will effectively erode all of that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What do you mean? Trogisch is the force that built both schools into what they are! Count on DCPS to hire a clueless, spineless syncophant who will effectively erode all of that.

That dude illegally discriminates against kids with disabilities. Good riddance to him. I have no doubt that he both engaged in termination-worthy insubordination and also has a long rap sheet of admission “irregularities.”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What do you mean? Trogisch is the force that built both schools into what they are! Count on DCPS to hire a clueless, spineless syncophant who will effectively erode all of that.

That dude illegally discriminates against kids with disabilities. Good riddance to him. I have no doubt that he both engaged in termination-worthy insubordination and also has a long rap sheet of admission “irregularities.”

+1

And I would argue he really changed the school from it’s original mission into what it is now- a college prep school that is becoming less and less diverse by the year.

[Anonymous]

Is there any chance Trosgisch could come back?

[Anonymous]

None

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What do you mean? Trogisch is the force that built both schools into what they are! Count on DCPS to hire a clueless, spineless syncophant who will effectively erode all of that.

That dude illegally discriminates against kids with disabilities. Good riddance to him. I have no doubt that he both engaged in termination-worthy insubordination and also has a long rap sheet of admission “irregularities.”

"counsel out" has become some sort of partisan talking point in these forums.

Does Harvard "counsel out" students when they get poor grades and they leave Harvard?
Does Walmart "counsel out" employees who have poor performance and get fired?
Do the American people "counsel out" politicians like Cory Gardner who do a terrible job and get voted out of office?

To have a top school, you have to have standards. We should account for disabilities, but ultimately personal responsibility matters. Attacking "Counsel out" just means you want "no standards".
Some schools have to have standards.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What do you mean? Trogisch is the force that built both schools into what they are! Count on DCPS to hire a clueless, spineless syncophant who will effectively erode all of that.

That dude illegally discriminates against kids with disabilities. Good riddance to him. I have no doubt that he both engaged in termination-worthy insubordination and also has a long rap sheet of admission “irregularities.”

"counsel out" has become some sort of partisan talking point in these forums.

Does Harvard "counsel out" students when they get poor grades and they leave Harvard?
Does Walmart "counsel out" employees who have poor performance and get fired?
Do the American people "counsel out" politicians like Cory Gardner who do a terrible job and get voted out of office?

To have a top school, you have to have standards. We should account for disabilities, but ultimately personal responsibility matters. Attacking "Counsel out" just means you want "no standards".
Some schools have to have standards.

The problem with counseling students out is this is a public school charged with educating kids once they are admitted. So the standards for counseling out are quite subjective. And it often correlates with race and SES. This is not the same as a politician not doing their job or a Walmart employee not doing their job. These are minors who cannot control their home situations, how much money their families make or the middle school they attended.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What do you mean? Trogisch is the force that built both schools into what they are! Count on DCPS to hire a clueless, spineless syncophant who will effectively erode all of that.

That dude illegally discriminates against kids with disabilities. Good riddance to him. I have no doubt that he both engaged in termination-worthy insubordination and also has a long rap sheet of admission “irregularities.”

"counsel out" has become some sort of partisan talking point in these forums.

Does Harvard "counsel out" students when they get poor grades and they leave Harvard?
Does Walmart "counsel out" employees who have poor performance and get fired?
Do the American people "counsel out" politicians like Cory Gardner who do a terrible job and get voted out of office?

To have a top school, you have to have standards. We should account for disabilities, but ultimately personal responsibility matters. Attacking "Counsel out" just means you want "no standards".
Some schools have to have standards.

The problem with counseling students out is this is a public school charged with educating kids once they are admitted. So the standards for counseling out are quite subjective. And it often correlates with race and SES. This is not the same as a politician not doing their job or a Walmart employee not doing their job. These are minors who cannot control their home situations, how much money their families make or the middle school they attended.

Got it. So no standards in any DCPS.