Heads should roll on this horrendous issue

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:F this administration for not doing more to support our men that we put in harms way in hell holes and bind them so they can't do their jobs and then punish them for being in impossible situations.

I am really mad, will write to my congress person.!

I don't think we should have sent an occupation force to Afghanistan in the first place. THANKS BUSH. THANKS REPUBLICAN NEOCONS.

Early in the thread I posted that bush has responsibility for getting us into this quagmire and I don't know how he sleeps at night. The current administration holds responsibility for enabling afghan warlords and continuing to jeopardize the effectiveness of our soldiers there and being morally wayward institutionally.

Finding warlords who do not participate in child rape may be impossible, which means it would be impossible for the US to be in Afghanistan or to work with the government or people of Afghanistan without enabling them. Which leads to two options: leaving Afghanistan 100% or working with the people there. I would support the administration pulling out entirely, having absolutely no contact with the country or people in it, but it's quite possible that that would directly harm the security of our country. Would you support pulling out of the country, never working with any of the people there ever again, if it meant directly increasing the likelihood of another terrorist attack on our country?

I don't support pulling out of the country. We need to finish what we started.
We obviously can't stop this barbaric practice, but we can draw a line at having these commanders actually commit these atrocities on OUR own bases.

We can also send a message by pardoning these men.

I don't think we or anybody else will finish anything in Assholes-stan. The goals post would have to be lowered considerably to be able to state, " Mussion accomplished"

We can discuss whether it abets American interests to stay or not. However while we're still there, we don't have to let child rape occur on our bases. Full stop. Obviously we can't squash the practice but we can take a small stand by not allowing these afghan commanders to bring the boys to our base and not dishonorably discharging this soldier.

Pp, yes, I'm on your side. At minimum, it should not happen on the US military bases. It sends the wrong message to the local population, like the Americans are also participating on this heinous crime.

Yes, and for those arguing that this is ingrained in Afghan culture and should be given a pass they fail to accept the fact that the villagers don't accept this practice, they're trying to save their boys and the implied participation of the Americans in this is losing them support.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:F this administration for not doing more to support our men that we put in harms way in hell holes and bind them so they can't do their jobs and then punish them for being in impossible situations.

I am really mad, will write to my congress person.!

I don't think we should have sent an occupation force to Afghanistan in the first place. THANKS BUSH. THANKS REPUBLICAN NEOCONS.

Early in the thread I posted that bush has responsibility for getting us into this quagmire and I don't know how he sleeps at night. The current administration holds responsibility for enabling afghan warlords and continuing to jeopardize the effectiveness of our soldiers there and being morally wayward institutionally.

Finding warlords who do not participate in child rape may be impossible, which means it would be impossible for the US to be in Afghanistan or to work with the government or people of Afghanistan without enabling them. Which leads to two options: leaving Afghanistan 100% or working with the people there. I would support the administration pulling out entirely, having absolutely no contact with the country or people in it, but it's quite possible that that would directly harm the security of our country. Would you support pulling out of the country, never working with any of the people there ever again, if it meant directly increasing the likelihood of another terrorist attack on our country?

I don't support pulling out of the country. We need to finish what we started.
We obviously can't stop this barbaric practice, but we can draw a line at having these commanders actually commit these atrocities on OUR own bases.

We can also send a message by pardoning these men.

Finish what? And pardon for what? If I'm not mistaken, there was neither a court martial nor conviction. There was a discharge. Presidents who insert themselves into military command and discipline issues do so at their own peril. Obama would be criticized for undermining the command structure and politicizing internal military affairs.

Loss of benefits. Loss of voting rights. Loss of the second amendment. Yep, JUST a discharge. Obama is the commander-in-chief. He is the big Kahuna. It is his responsibility to set the proper tone. Period.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This Afghan child rape thing has been percolating in that indiginous culture for centuries... Did all of you gloss over the Colonial British accounts of the practice from over 100 years ago that were mentioned several times by various posters to this thread? It was a known issue during Bush's Administration, it was a known issue when Reagan was arming Afghan mujahideen, t's been an issue for a very very long time. Reagan wasn't able to deal with it or put an end to it during the years that we were using those rapist Afghan commanders to fight a proxy war against the Soviets, Bush wasn't able to deal with it or put an end to it in the 7 years that he was in charge of the occupying force in Afghanistan, yet somehow you think Obama could end it overnight with a snap of the finger.... SMH.

Yes unrealistic to end it. But unfair to prosecute a green beret who did the minimum anyone would do to someone laughing their head off over it - push them. Its not legal here, hasn't gone on for centuries here, and the green beret is from here. Or are we ending his career in the name.of cultural sensitivity? And then we do what we can, whatever we can, to not aid abet and partner in it.

He didn't "push" the Afghan. He beat him up. That's assault and stateside, that can also be a career ending felony. The ends don't always justify the means.

Frankly? There would be outrage from the public if a company let go an individual who assaulted a child rapist and a woman-beater. For every corporation that would let him go, there would be five offering him a job. Guaranteed. That's what separates us from the rest of the world.

Actually in America he would be arrested and convicted of assault. Perhaps a jury would have given him a lenient sentence but that's about it.

Absolutely correct. Under the law, there are two separate crimes that were committed: 1. the child rape and 2. the assault - the rape is revolting and illegal but does not justify the assault which is also illegal. The law is what it is and law enforcement and prosecutors still have a duty to uphold the law regardless of the circumstances. Where that may shift is with those who preside over the trial. In the case of civilian government, that is a peer jury, and they would likely show significant leniency. Military disciplinary proceedings tend to be very rigid, in following with longstanding historic doctrine and discipline, none of which is new.

Wouldn't the soldier assaulting the pedophile come under defending a minor?

Defending a minor is one thing and there are many ways to do that (like removing the minor from the dangerous environment) but where in the law is it legal to beat the shit out of someone on behalf of a minor?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This Afghan child rape thing has been percolating in that indiginous culture for centuries... Did all of you gloss over the Colonial British accounts of the practice from over 100 years ago that were mentioned several times by various posters to this thread? It was a known issue during Bush's Administration, it was a known issue when Reagan was arming Afghan mujahideen, t's been an issue for a very very long time. Reagan wasn't able to deal with it or put an end to it during the years that we were using those rapist Afghan commanders to fight a proxy war against the Soviets, Bush wasn't able to deal with it or put an end to it in the 7 years that he was in charge of the occupying force in Afghanistan, yet somehow you think Obama could end it overnight with a snap of the finger.... SMH.

Yes unrealistic to end it. But unfair to prosecute a green beret who did the minimum anyone would do to someone laughing their head off over it - push them. Its not legal here, hasn't gone on for centuries here, and the green beret is from here. Or are we ending his career in the name.of cultural sensitivity? And then we do what we can, whatever we can, to not aid abet and partner in it.

He didn't "push" the Afghan. He beat him up. That's assault and stateside, that can also be a career ending felony. The ends don't always justify the means.

Frankly? There would be outrage from the public if a company let go an individual who assaulted a child rapist and a woman-beater. For every corporation that would let him go, there would be five offering him a job. Guaranteed. That's what separates us from the rest of the world.

Actually in America he would be arrested and convicted of assault. Perhaps a jury would have given him a lenient sentence but that's about it.

Absolutely correct. Under the law, there are two separate crimes that were committed: 1. the child rape and 2. the assault - the rape is revolting and illegal but does not justify the assault which is also illegal. The law is what it is and law enforcement and prosecutors still have a duty to uphold the law regardless of the circumstances. Where that may shift is with those who preside over the trial. In the case of civilian government, that is a peer jury, and they would likely show significant leniency. Military disciplinary proceedings tend to be very rigid, in following with longstanding historic doctrine and discipline, none of which is new.

Wouldn't the soldier assaulting the pedophile come under defending a minor?

Defending a minor is one thing and there are many ways to do that (like removing the minor from the dangerous environment) but where in the law is it legal to beat the shit out of someone on behalf of a minor?

Technically it's not. Morally, there's a reason why it's rarely prosecuted. If it is, it's done to deliver a message. Obama sure loves to do that!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:F this administration for not doing more to support our men that we put in harms way in hell holes and bind them so they can't do their jobs and then punish them for being in impossible situations.

I am really mad, will write to my congress person.!

I don't think we should have sent an occupation force to Afghanistan in the first place. THANKS BUSH. THANKS REPUBLICAN NEOCONS.

Early in the thread I posted that bush has responsibility for getting us into this quagmire and I don't know how he sleeps at night. The current administration holds responsibility for enabling afghan warlords and continuing to jeopardize the effectiveness of our soldiers there and being morally wayward institutionally.

Finding warlords who do not participate in child rape may be impossible, which means it would be impossible for the US to be in Afghanistan or to work with the government or people of Afghanistan without enabling them. Which leads to two options: leaving Afghanistan 100% or working with the people there. I would support the administration pulling out entirely, having absolutely no contact with the country or people in it, but it's quite possible that that would directly harm the security of our country. Would you support pulling out of the country, never working with any of the people there ever again, if it meant directly increasing the likelihood of another terrorist attack on our country?

I don't support pulling out of the country. We need to finish what we started.
We obviously can't stop this barbaric practice, but we can draw a line at having these commanders actually commit these atrocities on OUR own bases.

We can also send a message by pardoning these men.

What message are we sending... that it's OK for soldiers to take the law into their own hands and interpret it however they like? That it's OK for them to engage in vigilante justice of their own rather than working through the proper authorities?

[Anonymous]

^ And again, we were enabling these same rapist warlords alll the way back when Reagan was working with them against the Soviets... Yet the outcry is only now?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:^ And again, we were enabling these same rapist warlords alll the way back when Reagan was working with them against the Soviets... Yet the outcry is only now?

Reagan was president 30 years ago, more than a generation ago when topics of pedophilia and child rape were not so openly discussed! I don't understand your pint when you keep saying it was going on under other administrations. Are you saying let it go because past presidents did nothing either?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^ And again, we were enabling these same rapist warlords alll the way back when Reagan was working with them against the Soviets... Yet the outcry is only now?

Reagan was president 30 years ago, more than a generation ago when topics of pedophilia and child rape were not so openly discussed! I don't understand your pint when you keep saying it was going on under other administrations. Are you saying let it go because past presidents did nothing either?

Excuses, excuses. And NO, that is NOT what anyone is saying. You either have some serious reading comprehension issues, or some logical processing issues, or are being intentionally obtuse.

We wouldn't deal with it then "because nobody wanted to talk about it then"

You are whining about the difference in US culture of today versus US culture of 30 years ago yet are refusing to accept that there is also a difference in culture with Afghans being even farther behind even where we were 30 years ago in terms of addressing child rape.

It is a VERY relevant point, whether you understand it or not.

[Anonymous]

It's taken us 30 years to even acknowledge that it's going on in the first place - we knew it then, but didn't want to talk about it - yet somehow you expect Afghans who are even farther behind the 8-ball in terms of human rights to suddenly "get it" and have everything click in place overnight, just because someone punched someone else in the nose?

And here's a hint, it's probably not the first time an Afghan got punched in the nose over child rape, and no doubt won't be the last time either.

It's a complex cultural issue, it will take time to solve. After all, even in America we still have backward people engaging in pedophilia, incest and child abuse.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:^ And again, we were enabling these same rapist warlords alll the way back when Reagan was working with them against the Soviets... Yet the outcry is only now?

Reagan did not have bases in Afghanistan with this going on under us military personnel's noses.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^ And again, we were enabling these same rapist warlords alll the way back when Reagan was working with them against the Soviets... Yet the outcry is only now?

Reagan did not have bases in Afghanistan with this going on under us military personnel's noses.

Okay, let's call them CIA training camps. Did those not exist?

[Anonymous]

Why did conservatives only become outraged about the practice of bacha bazi after a Green Beret was discharged for assaulting an Afghan? It's not like this has been a well-hidden secret. There was a Frontline documentary broadcast on PBS back in 2010

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/dancingboys/

and a WaPo article in 2012.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/asia_pacific/afganistans-dancing-boys-are-invisible-victims/2012/04/04/gIQAyreSwS_story.html

Where was the GOP on all this? Aren't criminal human rights violations at least deserving of a Congressional investigation and hearing?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why did conservatives only become outraged about the practice of bacha bazi after a Green Beret was discharged for assaulting an Afghan? It's not like this has been a well-hidden secret. There was a Frontline documentary broadcast on PBS back in 2010

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/dancingboys/

and a WaPo article in 2012.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/asia_pacific/afganistans-dancing-boys-are-invisible-victims/2012/04/04/gIQAyreSwS_story.html

Where was the GOP on all this? Aren't criminal human rights violations at least deserving of a Congressional investigation and hearing?

I am not a conservative. I am outraged because the situation here is that someone tried to stop this and was PUNISHED. We usually applaud people for saving children from child molestors. This is also the first time I am hearing that the US military allows this on their bases.

The main difference is that we always think America is on the side of being good, we send our soldiers to be sacrificed in this hellhole. And now we find out that the US military is morally bankrupt and put our soldiers in dispiriting situations that not only sap their morale, but also punishes the villagers we aim to "help".

I know there is evil in the world, I don't expect the US, supposed bearer of democracy, to condone it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why did conservatives only become outraged about the practice of bacha bazi after a Green Beret was discharged for assaulting an Afghan? It's not like this has been a well-hidden secret. There was a Frontline documentary broadcast on PBS back in 2010

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/dancingboys/

and a WaPo article in 2012.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/asia_pacific/afganistans-dancing-boys-are-invisible-victims/2012/04/04/gIQAyreSwS_story.html

Where was the GOP on all this? Aren't criminal human rights violations at least deserving of a Congressional investigation and hearing?

I am not a conservative. I am outraged because the situation here is that someone tried to stop this and was PUNISHED. We usually applaud people for saving children from child molestors. This is also the first time I am hearing that the US military allows this on their bases.

The main difference is that we always think America is on the side of being good, we send our soldiers to be sacrificed in this hellhole. And now we find out that the US military is morally bankrupt and put our soldiers in dispiriting situations that not only sap their morale, but also punishes the villagers we aim to "help".

I know there is evil in the world, I don't expect the US, supposed bearer of democracy, to condone it.

There is a difference between understanding that Afghanistan is a hell hole, and then realizing that our own military is abetting this hell hole.

[Anonymous]

Gee, one would think that conservative alarms would have gone off when we backed Karzai, knowing his brother was a heroin kingpin.