UVA Gang rape

[Anonymous]

11:46, can you think of a time when women were treated respectfully, as autonomous human beings who had the right to control their own bodies?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Anyone remember the Jodie Foster movie where one m a n knows that what is happening is wrong and slips o ut and calls the police? If just one of those frat boys had called the police to stop these cretins, but not a single one did.

I went out with an alum of UVA who told me this story. He kept giving his date drinks and when she was drunk enougj, he auctioned her off to the highest bidder ($5.00) and this guy took her upstairs and had sex with her. I slapped him and threw my drink in his face. He called me the next day asking why I did that.

That is sick. This is why college students don't have meaningful relationships on campus. College guys are getting laid by paying there buddies 5 bucks. That sociopath years later didn't even realize what a sicko he was he just thought it was funny. Our culture is a cesspool.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I read the RS article, the follow-up article about others coming forward, and a few pages of this thread. What a sad story. I don't know what happened to Jackie that night, but I'm sure that she was wronged. Like a few pps, I struggle with the thought of seven offenders. I don't understand how she isn't ready to file charges. She has done a pretty great job at making the incident public - why not keep going?

I support the Greek system. I think that it is different at each school and probably from house to house, but generally I think it can be good. Incidents like this give all frats a bad name, and that is a shame. The good frat members should see this an opportunity and lead the charge for reform.

Last, I think the drinking age should change to 18 or 19. Move some of the partying from frats and to the bars.

You are a sheep with a small mind.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I sort of agree with you, but I sort of don't. I think that the acceptance of sex as something that starts much earlier than it used to is partly responsible for the commodification of women as sex objects. I know it's always happened, but if you look at pop culture now, it's so focused on women and girls as sex objects, and with them not having value for any other reason, I think it's partly due to the fact that it's happening before kids have the intellectual maturity to realize that it's devaluing them.

I don't mean to be critical... this has been said over and over again for at least 30 years. We still have the exact same problems, so this dialog is not changing anything.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/10/31/rapebait-fraternity-georgia-tech_n_6082952.html Unfortunately nothing will change until people/fraternities/universities are sued.

Holy crap. I can't believe that article about Georgia Tech. What are these disgusting songs about hooking up, rape, f**king dead sluts. What the hell has happened to college students. Aren't college students suppose to be the educated good guys. Why are other men not standing up and bashing in the faces of these thugs when they sing these chants. This arms race to get into the best colleges so you can get the best jobs and make the most money has turned these guys into sociopaths who brutalize women. All frats should be closed for good. Please no idiots reply and say there are any benefits to the Greek system. There is none. The scale has been tipped so far into the direction of criminal behavior, there is no going back.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:11:46, can you think of a time when women were treated respectfully, as autonomous human beings who had the right to control their own bodies?

11:46 here: No, not that I know of, not in our culture. BUT, I do think that actually at my college at least in the 90s, it was actually a time when women were treated respectfully as autonomous human beings with the right to control our own bodies. Now, I think my college was and still is probably much better than most. But it also was the case that when I was in high school and college, the average age of sexual activity was later than it is now. I feel like girls are getting the message much earlier that their sexuality is their value. And boys are getting that message about girls too. So they don't treat them as humans.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:11:46, can you think of a time when women were treated respectfully, as autonomous human beings who had the right to control their own bodies?

11:46 here: No, not that I know of, not in our culture. BUT, I do think that actually at my college at least in the 90s, it was actually a time when women were treated respectfully as autonomous human beings with the right to control our own bodies. Now, I think my college was and still is probably much better than most. But it also was the case that when I was in high school and college, the average age of sexual activity was later than it is now. I feel like girls are getting the message much earlier that their sexuality is their value. And boys are getting that message about girls too. So they don't treat them as humans.

Because sexuality is not human? Because 18 year olds should not have the right to vote or boink?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:11:46, can you think of a time when women were treated respectfully, as autonomous human beings who had the right to control their own bodies?

11:46 here: No, not that I know of, not in our culture. BUT, I do think that actually at my college at least in the 90s, it was actually a time when women were treated respectfully as autonomous human beings with the right to control our own bodies. Now, I think my college was and still is probably much better than most. But it also was the case that when I was in high school and college, the average age of sexual activity was later than it is now. I feel like girls are getting the message much earlier that their sexuality is their value. And boys are getting that message about girls too. So they don't treat them as humans.

No, it actually wasn't. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1802108/figure/F2/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:11:46, can you think of a time when women were treated respectfully, as autonomous human beings who had the right to control their own bodies?

11:46 here: No, not that I know of, not in our culture. BUT, I do think that actually at my college at least in the 90s, it was actually a time when women were treated respectfully as autonomous human beings with the right to control our own bodies. Now, I think my college was and still is probably much better than most. But it also was the case that when I was in high school and college, the average age of sexual activity was later than it is now. I feel like girls are getting the message much earlier that their sexuality is their value. And boys are getting that message about girls too. So they don't treat them as humans.

Because sexuality is not human? Because 18 year olds should not have the right to vote or boink?

You're not making any sense. None of that has anything to do with what I said.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:11:46, can you think of a time when women were treated respectfully, as autonomous human beings who had the right to control their own bodies?

11:46 here: No, not that I know of, not in our culture. BUT, I do think that actually at my college at least in the 90s, it was actually a time when women were treated respectfully as autonomous human beings with the right to control our own bodies. Now, I think my college was and still is probably much better than most. But it also was the case that when I was in high school and college, the average age of sexual activity was later than it is now. I feel like girls are getting the message much earlier that their sexuality is their value. And boys are getting that message about girls too. So they don't treat them as humans.

No, it actually wasn't. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1802108/figure/F2/

That chart doesn't support you. The latest data in it are from over 10 years ago.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:11:46, can you think of a time when women were treated respectfully, as autonomous human beings who had the right to control their own bodies?

11:46 here: No, not that I know of, not in our culture. BUT, I do think that actually at my college at least in the 90s, it was actually a time when women were treated respectfully as autonomous human beings with the right to control our own bodies. Now, I think my college was and still is probably much better than most. But it also was the case that when I was in high school and college, the average age of sexual activity was later than it is now. I feel like girls are getting the message much earlier that their sexuality is their value. And boys are getting that message about girls too. So they don't treat them as humans.

Because sexuality is not human? Because 18 year olds should not have the right to vote or boink?

Oh, don't be dumb. Of course sexuality is human. But a human is not JUST sexuality, and not even MOSTLY their sexuality. Treating a person as if their sexuality is their primary value is not treating that person as a full human.
And nothing was said about 18 year olds' rights, to have sex or anything else.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:11:46, can you think of a time when women were treated respectfully, as autonomous human beings who had the right to control their own bodies?

11:46 here: No, not that I know of, not in our culture. BUT, I do think that actually at my college at least in the 90s, it was actually a time when women were treated respectfully as autonomous human beings with the right to control our own bodies. Now, I think my college was and still is probably much better than most. But it also was the case that when I was in high school and college, the average age of sexual activity was later than it is now. I feel like girls are getting the message much earlier that their sexuality is their value. And boys are getting that message about girls too. So they don't treat them as humans.

No, it actually wasn't. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1802108/figure/F2/

That chart doesn't support you. The latest data in it are from over 10 years ago.

How about this?

http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/FB-ATSRH.html#1

And if you don't like those data either, then please find some data that support the idea that the average age of first sexual activity is earlier now than in the 1990s.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I read the RS article, the follow-up article about others coming forward, and a few pages of this thread. What a sad story. I don't know what happened to Jackie that night, but I'm sure that she was wronged. Like a few pps, I struggle with the thought of seven offenders. I don't understand how she isn't ready to file charges. She has done a pretty great job at making the incident public - why not keep going?

I support the Greek system. I think that it is different at each school and probably from house to house, but generally I think it can be good. Incidents like this give all frats a bad name, and that is a shame. The good frat members should see this an opportunity and lead the charge for reform.

Last, I think the drinking age should change to 18 or 19. Move some of the partying from frats and to the bars.

You are a sheep with a small mind.

Thank you for your thoughtful response. I believe that I have a very open mind. I believe that she was raped but I have no basis to determine which boys assaulted her. I also have no basis to believe that the entire fraternity is at fault. I'm skeptical that it was hazing, but whether it was hazing or thug behavior really doesn't matter. I think that it is incredibly short sighted to believe that the Greek system is the problem. The school's system of dealing with sexual assault complaints is the most obvious problem. It is my opinion that the drinking age in the U.S. is a less obvious part of the problem.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:11:46, can you think of a time when women were treated respectfully, as autonomous human beings who had the right to control their own bodies?

11:46 here: No, not that I know of, not in our culture. BUT, I do think that actually at my college at least in the 90s, it was actually a time when women were treated respectfully as autonomous human beings with the right to control our own bodies. Now, I think my college was and still is probably much better than most. But it also was the case that when I was in high school and college, the average age of sexual activity was later than it is now. I feel like girls are getting the message much earlier that their sexuality is their value. And boys are getting that message about girls too. So they don't treat them as humans.

No, it actually wasn't. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1802108/figure/F2/

That chart doesn't support you. The latest data in it are from over 10 years ago.

How about this?

http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/FB-ATSRH.html#1

And if you don't like those data either, then please find some data that support the idea that the average age of first sexual activity is earlier now than in the 1990s.

No I DO like that one! It looks like it's comparing early '90s to 2006-2008. Not perfect, but it's at least somewhat persuasive. But I do know that the age of sex initiation in *my* peer group and culture versus in my kids' peer group and culture shows that it's gotten earlier during that time. This is also what my friend who's a pediatrician says she has seen in her patient population. So, while across the population as a whole it may have stayed steady or gotten later (which would be great), it does appear that among the college-bound upper-middle class kids, it's gotten earlier. From that very small small data set, that is. If there are statistics that actually break that down across different demographic groups, I'd love to see them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Had the victim called an ambulance and done a rape kit and had photos taken I doubt she would have been put through the grinder. She would have had their DNA all over her. They would only need to go after one of the guys and he would immediately finger the other guys. Once that happens, there's no way the victim would be put through the grinder...because no one would assert that she volunteered to bang seven guys.

But now that so much time has passed and she didn't get any medical evidence, she's going to have an uphill battle. They can easily assert a defense that she's making this up. No eye witnesses beyond the rapists. And her "friends" aren't equipped to provide any useful evidence.

Oh, if only the 19 year old girl away from home for the first time who had just been gang raped for three hours, beaten, thrown through a glass table, and tortured into a fuge state had had the presence of mind to think strategically.

I agree 100%. Well said.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:11:46, can you think of a time when women were treated respectfully, as autonomous human beings who had the right to control their own bodies?

11:46 here: No, not that I know of, not in our culture. BUT, I do think that actually at my college at least in the 90s, it was actually a time when women were treated respectfully as autonomous human beings with the right to control our own bodies. Now, I think my college was and still is probably much better than most. But it also was the case that when I was in high school and college, the average age of sexual activity was later than it is now. I feel like girls are getting the message much earlier that their sexuality is their value. And boys are getting that message about girls too. So they don't treat them as humans.

No, it actually wasn't. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1802108/figure/F2/

That chart doesn't support you. The latest data in it are from over 10 years ago.

Oops - here's the link to the actual article.