RTO and No Childcare.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are a lot of women employed FT in professional careers really saying they have no childcare? That's not what I've seen on DCUM. People are often talking about the extra time for commuting and difference of being out of the house. So like a 10yp may come home from school and not have childcare from 4-5pm because they can entertain themselves while parent works. But the parent may not want them actually alone in the house. It's a childcare gap. Same with the mornings before school opens - I would need beforecare to RTO and it might not be available this school year (already full). Or preschool may close at 5pm but with commute I'd get home later than that, etc.

WFH necessitates childcare if you have a real job but can be for fewer hours, or you cover the occasional days off and breaks without always taking PTO etc

OP here - I consider a childcare gap a lack of childcare. Before or after school care programs are not going to quickly sprout up.

+1
And even if kids can entertain themselves a bit or parents find programs, the kids can't magically transport themselves and they can't drive yet. So parents (all parents, dads too) need that flexibility after school. Strict RTO mean that these good employees will no longer be bending backwards to check mails and handle things after business hours.

I think you’re ranting about things you have no idea about. Kids can’t transport themselves? The aftercare programs all have buses and vans that pick up at our school. Parents don’t need to drive their kids to ballet or karate or gymnastics.

I'm so glad your data point of one is universal.

What school doesn't have that? Give us an example.

Our public elementary in DCPS definitely does want have transportation to activities.

Elementary school kids don’t need to be bused to activities. aftercare is fine.

It is fine. But it’s not great.

Being able to come right home from school to play with neighborhood friends, go to an extracurricular that they’re interested in, or even just have some free play is better. I know being out of the house 45-50 hours/week (i.e. 8-5:30/6) is tiring for many adults, I wouldn’t choose this for a young elementary kid. It is fine if it is what you have to do, but let’s not act like this is more ideal than kids getting to play soccer, learn an instrument, take tutoring classes, go to scouts meetings, etc. and having a family meal together.

if that’s your ideal AND you want both parents to work FT, you need a better plan than assuming that covid-era telework (for positions that are not actually fully remote) will last forever.

I have some millennial coworkers who had kids and bought houses way out in the burbs during covid. I feel for them but truly, they shouldn’t have counted on max telework lasting indefinitely. I also have a GenX coworker who relocated across the country during covid - at least she fully knows she’ll be terminated when they eventually catch up to her.

Except the plan had gone fine for over a decade now …

All of you calling telework a “COVID era” thing are really behind the times. My DH is in the private sector and has had some form of telework (either hybrid or full time like now) since at least 2010.

But that hasn't been allowed for feds except for at the height of the pandemic. And the pp didn't describe telework. She described bailing from work mid-afternoon to take her kids to practices and activities.

What specifically hasn't been happening except for at the height of the pandemic? Regular telework has been a thing for feds for at least 10 years.

Allowing you to be a caregiver for dependents while teleworking was only allowed at the height of the pandemic. It was expressly prohibited before, and that language has almost certainly worked its way back in to telework and remote work agreements.

But...no one is talking about trying to have their young kids at home while also working, at least in this thread. People are talking about commutes and aftercare, etc.

You haven't been reading all the posts then. One person just described telework as a way to avoid infant child care programs, citing both the difficulty of finding a spot and the expense. Another person said she wanted to drive her kids to activities rather than putting them in aftercare.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What all companies should do is have 6-2 shifts and 10-6 shifts. That way one parent can cover the morning duties and the other parent can cover after school duties.

This is what will end up happening. After people stop panicking, and DOGE doesn’t change the standard workday to 8-6, people will flex their office time (within reason, they aren’t going to let people start their day at 4 am or noon) to meet their needs. It can be done. Yes, it sucks more than WFH when you have kids that need to be shuttled places after school, but one parent starts their workday at 7 and leaves at 3 and the other starts at 9:30 and leaves at 5:30. It’s really ok. We all did it before, you can do it too.

Crabs in a bucket.

....and there it is. We had to suffer so everyone should suffer. This is seriously a messed up philosophy and really detrimental to people who believe in it. They don't even realize why they are failures. They are too busy comparing themselves to others.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Other than a few months early in COVID were all daycares shut down. Never in my fed office has it been acceptable to not have daycare. Not sure why folks think they can work AND watch kids. Those are two jobs and you can't do either fully if you're trying to do both at the same time.

How are some of you this stupid?

If you have elementary aged kids (which is the situation most people in this thread are discussing), you generally don’t need to “watch” them when they get home from school - but you do need to be *available* in case there is some sort of emergency. There is absolutely zero reason why a parent can’t work effectively from a home office while their school aged kids play in the next room (or the backyard).

No that is for children 16+

Depends on the kid, but 12+ should be fine for most. Basically, when they are roughly self-sufficient.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's gaps in childcare that make things hard for people with kids in school. If you've been working from home with an infant or toddler - that's problematic. I think people who are seriously going to be hit are the honest folks who can't find before or after school care for their kids. If flex work/situational telework goes away, I'll have to either quit or go part time if we RTO full time because there are no options for after care. Believe me - I'm on every waitlist imaginable and there are no babysitter options. It is what it is.

This. I'm in the same boat. I'll need to work very early hours most of the time to make it work, working around kid's other parent's schedule. It's possible that there will be other feds in the same boat and we can carpool/split aftercare.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Other than a few months early in COVID were all daycares shut down. Never in my fed office has it been acceptable to not have daycare. Not sure why folks think they can work AND watch kids. Those are two jobs and you can't do either fully if you're trying to do both at the same time.

How are some of you this stupid?

If you have elementary aged kids (which is the situation most people in this thread are discussing), you generally don’t need to “watch” them when they get home from school - but you do need to be *available* in case there is some sort of emergency. There is absolutely zero reason why a parent can’t work effectively from a home office while their school aged kids play in the next room (or the backyard).

I understand your perspective, but it’s important to consider both the legal and practical implications of supervising children while working from home, especially in government roles.

Balancing work and childcare isn’t just a personal decision; it has legal and professional requirements. Telework agreements for government employees explicitly state that appropriate childcare arrangements must be in place while working. It’s illegal to manage both responsibilities simultaneously, whether you're physically supervising or just "listening in." You're expected to fully account for your work hours, with no distractions from other responsibilities.

Childcare While Teleworking: A Professional Expectation
Think of childcare the same way you would if you were in the office: the expectation is that your children are being cared for by someone else. Telework is a convenience, not a substitute for childcare. It was never intended to subsidize your childcare needs but rather to provide flexibility for where you work, not how you manage dual responsibilities.

Age Guidelines and Childcare Needs
8 years and under: Must always be in the care of a responsible person. They should never be left unsupervised in homes, cars, playgrounds, or yards.
9 to 10 years: May be left unsupervised for up to 1.5 hours during daylight and early evening hours.
11 to 12 years: May be left unsupervised for up to 3 hours during daylight and early evening hours.
13 to 15 years: May be left unsupervised for more than 3 hours but not overnight.
16 and older: May be left unsupervised overnight for 1 to 2 days with a plan in place.
These guidelines underscore that children, especially elementary-aged, require supervision. Teleworking doesn’t change that responsibility. For your role to remain compliant and effective, proper childcare arrangements must be in place, ensuring both your productivity and your children’s safety.

[Anonymous]

Most people don’t have young kids. The commute is a huge issue and flexibility. It’s so silly to drive an hour or more to sit is a large room with tons of desks with everyone on calls as your team and customers are all over the world. Worse is when you have early morning and late night calls. The extra commute time often goes into work so less time and less flexibility.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are a lot of women employed FT in professional careers really saying they have no childcare? That's not what I've seen on DCUM. People are often talking about the extra time for commuting and difference of being out of the house. So like a 10yp may come home from school and not have childcare from 4-5pm because they can entertain themselves while parent works. But the parent may not want them actually alone in the house. It's a childcare gap. Same with the mornings before school opens - I would need beforecare to RTO and it might not be available this school year (already full). Or preschool may close at 5pm but with commute I'd get home later than that, etc.

WFH necessitates childcare if you have a real job but can be for fewer hours, or you cover the occasional days off and breaks without always taking PTO etc

OP here - I consider a childcare gap a lack of childcare. Before or after school care programs are not going to quickly sprout up.

+1
And even if kids can entertain themselves a bit or parents find programs, the kids can't magically transport themselves and they can't drive yet. So parents (all parents, dads too) need that flexibility after school. Strict RTO mean that these good employees will no longer be bending backwards to check mails and handle things after business hours.

I think you’re ranting about things you have no idea about. Kids can’t transport themselves? The aftercare programs all have buses and vans that pick up at our school. Parents don’t need to drive their kids to ballet or karate or gymnastics.

I'm so glad your data point of one is universal.

What school doesn't have that? Give us an example.

Every school has it but waitlists can be years long in Fairfax County.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are a lot of women employed FT in professional careers really saying they have no childcare? That's not what I've seen on DCUM. People are often talking about the extra time for commuting and difference of being out of the house. So like a 10yp may come home from school and not have childcare from 4-5pm because they can entertain themselves while parent works. But the parent may not want them actually alone in the house. It's a childcare gap. Same with the mornings before school opens - I would need beforecare to RTO and it might not be available this school year (already full). Or preschool may close at 5pm but with commute I'd get home later than that, etc.

WFH necessitates childcare if you have a real job but can be for fewer hours, or you cover the occasional days off and breaks without always taking PTO etc

OP here - I consider a childcare gap a lack of childcare. Before or after school care programs are not going to quickly sprout up.

+1
And even if kids can entertain themselves a bit or parents find programs, the kids can't magically transport themselves and they can't drive yet. So parents (all parents, dads too) need that flexibility after school. Strict RTO mean that these good employees will no longer be bending backwards to check mails and handle things after business hours.

I think you’re ranting about things you have no idea about. Kids can’t transport themselves? The aftercare programs all have buses and vans that pick up at our school. Parents don’t need to drive their kids to ballet or karate or gymnastics.

I'm so glad your data point of one is universal.

What school doesn't have that? Give us an example.

Our public elementary in DCPS definitely does want have transportation to activities.

Elementary school kids don’t need to be bused to activities. aftercare is fine.

It is fine. But it’s not great.

Being able to come right home from school to play with neighborhood friends, go to an extracurricular that they’re interested in, or even just have some free play is better. I know being out of the house 45-50 hours/week (i.e. 8-5:30/6) is tiring for many adults, I wouldn’t choose this for a young elementary kid. It is fine if it is what you have to do, but let’s not act like this is more ideal than kids getting to play soccer, learn an instrument, take tutoring classes, go to scouts meetings, etc. and having a family meal together.

if that’s your ideal AND you want both parents to work FT, you need a better plan than assuming that covid-era telework (for positions that are not actually fully remote) will last forever.

I have some millennial coworkers who had kids and bought houses way out in the burbs during covid. I feel for them but truly, they shouldn’t have counted on max telework lasting indefinitely. I also have a GenX coworker who relocated across the country during covid - at least she fully knows she’ll be terminated when they eventually catch up to her.

Except the plan had gone fine for over a decade now …

All of you calling telework a “COVID era” thing are really behind the times. My DH is in the private sector and has had some form of telework (either hybrid or full time like now) since at least 2010.

But that hasn't been allowed for feds except for at the height of the pandemic. And the pp didn't describe telework. She described bailing from work mid-afternoon to take her kids to practices and activities.

What specifically hasn't been happening except for at the height of the pandemic? Regular telework has been a thing for feds for at least 10 years.

Allowing you to be a caregiver for dependents while teleworking was only allowed at the height of the pandemic. It was expressly prohibited before, and that language has almost certainly worked its way back in to telework and remote work agreements.

But...no one is talking about trying to have their young kids at home while also working, at least in this thread. People are talking about commutes and aftercare, etc.

You haven't been reading all the posts then. One person just described telework as a way to avoid infant child care programs, citing both the difficulty of finding a spot and the expense. Another person said she wanted to drive her kids to activities rather than putting them in aftercare.

So working with tiny kids at home is hopeless and never works, and there are definitely fed rules about not doing that. But someone picking their kid up after school is something that could be done even with returning to the office -- it just requires flexible core hours.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are a lot of women employed FT in professional careers really saying they have no childcare? That's not what I've seen on DCUM. People are often talking about the extra time for commuting and difference of being out of the house. So like a 10yp may come home from school and not have childcare from 4-5pm because they can entertain themselves while parent works. But the parent may not want them actually alone in the house. It's a childcare gap. Same with the mornings before school opens - I would need beforecare to RTO and it might not be available this school year (already full). Or preschool may close at 5pm but with commute I'd get home later than that, etc.

WFH necessitates childcare if you have a real job but can be for fewer hours, or you cover the occasional days off and breaks without always taking PTO etc

OP here - I consider a childcare gap a lack of childcare. Before or after school care programs are not going to quickly sprout up.

+1
And even if kids can entertain themselves a bit or parents find programs, the kids can't magically transport themselves and they can't drive yet. So parents (all parents, dads too) need that flexibility after school. Strict RTO mean that these good employees will no longer be bending backwards to check mails and handle things after business hours.

I think you’re ranting about things you have no idea about. Kids can’t transport themselves? The aftercare programs all have buses and vans that pick up at our school. Parents don’t need to drive their kids to ballet or karate or gymnastics.

I'm so glad your data point of one is universal.

What school doesn't have that? Give us an example.

Our public elementary in DCPS definitely does want have transportation to activities.

Elementary school kids don’t need to be bused to activities. aftercare is fine.

It is fine. But it’s not great.

Being able to come right home from school to play with neighborhood friends, go to an extracurricular that they’re interested in, or even just have some free play is better. I know being out of the house 45-50 hours/week (i.e. 8-5:30/6) is tiring for many adults, I wouldn’t choose this for a young elementary kid. It is fine if it is what you have to do, but let’s not act like this is more ideal than kids getting to play soccer, learn an instrument, take tutoring classes, go to scouts meetings, etc. and having a family meal together.

if that’s your ideal AND you want both parents to work FT, you need a better plan than assuming that covid-era telework (for positions that are not actually fully remote) will last forever.

I have some millennial coworkers who had kids and bought houses way out in the burbs during covid. I feel for them but truly, they shouldn’t have counted on max telework lasting indefinitely. I also have a GenX coworker who relocated across the country during covid - at least she fully knows she’ll be terminated when they eventually catch up to her.

Except the plan had gone fine for over a decade now …

All of you calling telework a “COVID era” thing are really behind the times. My DH is in the private sector and has had some form of telework (either hybrid or full time like now) since at least 2010.

But that hasn't been allowed for feds except for at the height of the pandemic. And the pp didn't describe telework. She described bailing from work mid-afternoon to take her kids to practices and activities.

What specifically hasn't been happening except for at the height of the pandemic? Regular telework has been a thing for feds for at least 10 years.

Allowing you to be a caregiver for dependents while teleworking was only allowed at the height of the pandemic. It was expressly prohibited before, and that language has almost certainly worked its way back in to telework and remote work agreements.

But...no one is talking about trying to have their young kids at home while also working, at least in this thread. People are talking about commutes and aftercare, etc.

You haven't been reading all the posts then. One person just described telework as a way to avoid infant child care programs, citing both the difficulty of finding a spot and the expense. Another person said she wanted to drive her kids to activities rather than putting them in aftercare.

My husband and I can drive our kids to activities that start at 5:30. If we had to commute we couldn’t. We’re not driving them during the work day but it still makes it easier. Similarly, I’m fine with my 12 year old coming home, letting herself in, and making a snack / hanging out from 3-5 but I’d probably have to hire someone to be home if we weren’t.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What all companies should do is have 6-2 shifts and 10-6 shifts. That way one parent can cover the morning duties and the other parent can cover after school duties.

This is what will end up happening. After people stop panicking, and DOGE doesn’t change the standard workday to 8-6, people will flex their office time (within reason, they aren’t going to let people start their day at 4 am or noon) to meet their needs. It can be done. Yes, it sucks more than WFH when you have kids that need to be shuttled places after school, but one parent starts their workday at 7 and leaves at 3 and the other starts at 9:30 and leaves at 5:30. It’s really ok. We all did it before, you can do it too.

Crabs in a bucket.

....and there it is. We had to suffer so everyone should suffer. This is seriously a messed up philosophy and really detrimental to people who believe in it. They don't even realize why they are failures. They are too busy comparing themselves to others.

The existential discussion of “why are we having to do this” is pointless. There is no reasoning with the incoming administration in this issue. So you need to just start making plans for how you can make it work with the smallest amount of disruption to your family as possible.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can someone tell me how employees in private sectors handle all these childcare issues post-covid? For example, nurses, EMTs, polce officiers, teachers, supermarket workers, factory workers, etc.

Honestly, these people never took their kids out of childcare because they have never done WFH. They don’t have to worry about waitlists, etc. because they never gave up their child care slots to begin with.

Our daycare reduced spots and kicked some people out - they prioritized those who needed food through the daycare program and children of first responders. We found other care eventually but I don’t know that everyone did.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's gaps in childcare that make things hard for people with kids in school. If you've been working from home with an infant or toddler - that's problematic. I think people who are seriously going to be hit are the honest folks who can't find before or after school care for their kids. If flex work/situational telework goes away, I'll have to either quit or go part time if we RTO full time because there are no options for after care. Believe me - I'm on every waitlist imaginable and there are no babysitter options. It is what it is.

Yeah, its tough.

I suspect agencies will have a fair bit of flexibility on implementation. Where I am, we've cut telework to only 2 days a week. For the 3 days you're in the office, you don't need to work all of your hours there. It is fine to do the last hour from home.

While it is understood it isn't strictly allowed, it is accepted that some people will do this because they need to be home for their kids._

As long as people don't do egregious things, like being home most of the day with a preschooler, or driving their kids around during their work hours, then I expect this to continue.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's gaps in childcare that make things hard for people with kids in school. If you've been working from home with an infant or toddler - that's problematic. I think people who are seriously going to be hit are the honest folks who can't find before or after school care for their kids. If flex work/situational telework goes away, I'll have to either quit or go part time if we RTO full time because there are no options for after care. Believe me - I'm on every waitlist imaginable and there are no babysitter options. It is what it is.

Yeah, its tough.

I suspect agencies will have a fair bit of flexibility on implementation. Where I am, we've cut telework to only 2 days a week. For the 3 days you're in the office, you don't need to work all of your hours there. It is fine to do the last hour from home.

While it is understood it isn't strictly allowed, it is accepted that some people will do this because they need to be home for their kids._

As long as people don't do egregious things, like being home most of the day with a preschooler, or driving their kids around during their work hours, then I expect this to continue.

I hope so! Honestly, I embrace getting back to the office. If they allow flexible hours so that I can get my kids squared away, I'm all for it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Can someone tell me how employees in private sectors handle all these childcare issues post-covid? For example, nurses, EMTs, polce officiers, teachers, supermarket workers, factory workers, etc.

EMTs, police, and teachers aren't private sector workers.

But they live and work in the suburbs, eliminating the commute issue. Or they and their spouse work shifts, so they can stagger their availability. Shift work also allows them to commute at off times.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The RTO push is largely to try to get all workers in and working at the same time.

Schools and afterschool programs will need to expand and add classrooms again. When Covid happened and people stopped using the services there wasn’t a reason to keep staff around and so many of these programs were cut entirely or reduced. If parents need to be back in the office is the same programs will need to be expanded again. They will need staff to work so if there’s a proper ratios. And that will need to happen first, so that kids have somewhere to be when their parents go back to the office. This needs to be a planned effort.

I think parents will quit or change jobs before this happens on a large scale again. People don’t want that lifestyle anymore.

That’s just not true.