RTO and No Childcare.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can someone tell me how employees in private sectors handle all these childcare issues post-covid? For example, nurses, EMTs, polce officiers, teachers, supermarket workers, factory workers, etc.

Honestly, these people never took their kids out of childcare because they have never done WFH. They don’t have to worry about waitlists, etc. because they never gave up their child care slots to begin with.

I can't believe you cite this reason. Most kids of these parents in childcare pre-covid should be out of childcare by now (that's 5 yrs ago).

Some of them must have put their kids in childcare the first time after covid. How did they do it?

They started early because they knew they needed it. They didn't wait for a policy change and then have to scramble.

Yes, the parents were irresponsible, but there's a real problem. And it is much worse if you have a child with special needs, because then the available options are much more limited.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can someone tell me how employees in private sectors handle all these childcare issues post-covid? For example, nurses, EMTs, polce officiers, teachers, supermarket workers, factory workers, etc.

Honestly, these people never took their kids out of childcare because they have never done WFH. They don’t have to worry about waitlists, etc. because they never gave up their child care slots to begin with.

Wait what? You don't think anyone in any of those categories has given birth since covid or has a kid who has moved from daycare age to elementary school age since covid, or has moved since covid? So, these issues that you seem to think didn't exist pre-covid (even though many of us who had kids pre-covid are telling you they did) couldn't possibly apply to them.

I think that saying that you feel that you are equally productive at home, and therefore shouldn't be asked to come in is valid. That's fine. But this idea that somehow you are facing brand new unique issues that no one faced before covid is absurd. Before covid, my kid was on a dozen daycare waiting lists before he was conceived, and cleared one. Before covid, my kid didn't get off the waiting list for kindergarten aftercare (all the spots went to kids who had been in PreK, but we didn't win the PreK lottery) at our in bounds DCPS for the entire year, causing me to scrabble together care and eventually move him to a charter school. Childcare has been a problem for a long time in this country, and it's harder for the people listed above who generally have inflexible hours, and often works shifts, than it is for most office workers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can someone tell me how employees in private sectors handle all these childcare issues post-covid? For example, nurses, EMTs, polce officiers, teachers, supermarket workers, factory workers, etc.

Well, they often leave kids home alone, occasionally with an older (ie., 10 year old) child.

What? No, we make life choices that acknowledge that we actually e full time jobs. So, after care, nanny, grandparents, daycare, split shifts/ night shift, SAHM parent by choice for a few years, etc. college student babysitter just for pickup/driving to activities….

I never understood why office workers assume all frontline workers are poor and do things like skip childcare to save money. We often make more than a basic fed, actually.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can someone tell me how employees in private sectors handle all these childcare issues post-covid? For example, nurses, EMTs, polce officiers, teachers, supermarket workers, factory workers, etc.

Honestly, these people never took their kids out of childcare because they have never done WFH. They don’t have to worry about waitlists, etc. because they never gave up their child care slots to begin with.

I can't believe you cite this reason. Most kids of these parents in childcare pre-covid should be out of childcare by now (that's 5 yrs ago).

Some of them must have put their kids in childcare the first time after covid. How did they do it?

They started early because they knew they needed it. They didn't wait for a policy change and then have to scramble.

Yes, the parents were irresponsible, but there's a real problem. And it is much worse if you have a child with special needs, because then the available options are much more limited.

Meaning they didn’t line up to pay for something they didn’t need when they… didn’t need it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can someone tell me how employees in private sectors handle all these childcare issues post-covid? For example, nurses, EMTs, polce officiers, teachers, supermarket workers, factory workers, etc.

Honestly, these people never took their kids out of childcare because they have never done WFH. They don’t have to worry about waitlists, etc. because they never gave up their child care slots to begin with.

My neighbors have 3 kids. He is military and works on base and travels frequently for a few days or a few weeks. She works in person at a hospital - but a set schedule, not on call. She leaves for work at 7am and is home by 4pm. Their kids are in extended day after school. They have an army of babysitters they can call and grandparents 1-2 hours away who will come stay and help. They also have us and 3 other families where 1 or both parents WFH and are around to watch a toddler while they run a kid to soccer or carpool to camp with them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can someone tell me how employees in private sectors handle all these childcare issues post-covid? For example, nurses, EMTs, polce officiers, teachers, supermarket workers, factory workers, etc.

Honestly, these people never took their kids out of childcare because they have never done WFH. They don’t have to worry about waitlists, etc. because they never gave up their child care slots to begin with.

I can't believe you cite this reason. Most kids of these parents in childcare pre-covid should be out of childcare by now (that's 5 yrs ago).

Some of them must have put their kids in childcare the first time after covid. How did they do it?

They started early because they knew they needed it. They didn't wait for a policy change and then have to scramble.

Yes, the parents were irresponsible, but there's a real problem. And it is much worse if you have a child with special needs, because then the available options are much more limited.

I'm both a federal worker and also one that cannot work remotely by the nature of my job. Both pre and post-COVID, the waitlists for infant spots in government facilities (ANY of them - we tried all of the ones in the area) were 2+ years. And yet, you could only put your name on the list if you were actually pregnant and had a due date. The waitlists for before/after-care were similar, and many of the programs that we looked at were closed permanently during our search. We were in fact kicked out of our first facility because there was so much demand that they decided to only serve families with two active duty parents (no civilian DOD or only one federal worker families). In order to keep our jobs, we turned to private daycare with no waitlists and ended up paying close to $3000/mo for one child, with a crazy commute well past our duty stations to drop our kid off. Most people in our workplaces (our employees) cannot afford to do this on multiple fronts: logistics, cost, availability. How exactly are these parents irresponsible?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are a lot of women employed FT in professional careers really saying they have no childcare? That's not what I've seen on DCUM. People are often talking about the extra time for commuting and difference of being out of the house. So like a 10yp may come home from school and not have childcare from 4-5pm because they can entertain themselves while parent works. But the parent may not want them actually alone in the house. It's a childcare gap. Same with the mornings before school opens - I would need beforecare to RTO and it might not be available this school year (already full). Or preschool may close at 5pm but with commute I'd get home later than that, etc.

WFH necessitates childcare if you have a real job but can be for fewer hours, or you cover the occasional days off and breaks without always taking PTO etc

OP here - I consider a childcare gap a lack of childcare. Before or after school care programs are not going to quickly sprout up.

+1
And even if kids can entertain themselves a bit or parents find programs, the kids can't magically transport themselves and they can't drive yet. So parents (all parents, dads too) need that flexibility after school. Strict RTO mean that these good employees will no longer be bending backwards to check mails and handle things after business hours.

I think you’re ranting about things you have no idea about. Kids can’t transport themselves? The aftercare programs all have buses and vans that pick up at our school. Parents don’t need to drive their kids to ballet or karate or gymnastics.

I'm so glad your data point of one is universal.

What school doesn't have that? Give us an example.

Our public elementary in DCPS definitely does want have transportation to activities.

Elementary school kids don’t need to be bused to activities. aftercare is fine.

It is fine. But it’s not great.

Being able to come right home from school to play with neighborhood friends, go to an extracurricular that they’re interested in, or even just have some free play is better. I know being out of the house 45-50 hours/week (i.e. 8-5:30/6) is tiring for many adults, I wouldn’t choose this for a young elementary kid. It is fine if it is what you have to do, but let’s not act like this is more ideal than kids getting to play soccer, learn an instrument, take tutoring classes, go to scouts meetings, etc. and having a family meal together.

if that’s your ideal AND you want both parents to work FT, you need a better plan than assuming that covid-era telework (for positions that are not actually fully remote) will last forever.

I have some millennial coworkers who had kids and bought houses way out in the burbs during covid. I feel for them but truly, they shouldn’t have counted on max telework lasting indefinitely. I also have a GenX coworker who relocated across the country during covid - at least she fully knows she’ll be terminated when they eventually catch up to her.

Except the plan had gone fine for over a decade now …

All of you calling telework a “COVID era” thing are really behind the times. My DH is in the private sector and has had some form of telework (either hybrid or full time like now) since at least 2010.

But that hasn't been allowed for feds except for at the height of the pandemic. And the pp didn't describe telework. She described bailing from work mid-afternoon to take her kids to practices and activities.

What specifically hasn't been happening except for at the height of the pandemic? Regular telework has been a thing for feds for at least 10 years.

Allowing you to be a caregiver for dependents while teleworking was only allowed at the height of the pandemic. It was expressly prohibited before, and that language has almost certainly worked its way back in to telework and remote work agreements.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Other than a few months early in COVID were all daycares shut down. Never in my fed office has it been acceptable to not have daycare. Not sure why folks think they can work AND watch kids. Those are two jobs and you can't do either fully if you're trying to do both at the same time.

How are some of you this stupid?

If you have elementary aged kids (which is the situation most people in this thread are discussing), you generally don’t need to “watch” them when they get home from school - but you do need to be *available* in case there is some sort of emergency. There is absolutely zero reason why a parent can’t work effectively from a home office while their school aged kids play in the next room (or the backyard).

Pre Covid I had ES aged kids for whom I cobbled together after care as well as going in as early as possible but leaving at the same time and a spouse who went in as late as possible. Between all that we managed to get our kids where they needed to go. And they were in LOTS of activities including multiple travel sports. Leave was used to accommodate holidays/sickness. I did have T/W then but I also had bosses that expected my full attention to my job, while they were you know paying me. Actions have consequences and kids require care.

PS - I don't know what kind of unicorn kids you have, but short of having one, unlimited, screen for each there is no way a days worth of work can get done without breaking up fights, reminding them to do something, feeding them (or reminding them to feed/clean up) etc. But hey maybe you do have them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can someone tell me how employees in private sectors handle all these childcare issues post-covid? For example, nurses, EMTs, polce officiers, teachers, supermarket workers, factory workers, etc.

Honestly, these people never took their kids out of childcare because they have never done WFH. They don’t have to worry about waitlists, etc. because they never gave up their child care slots to begin with.

I can't believe you cite this reason. Most kids of these parents in childcare pre-covid should be out of childcare by now (that's 5 yrs ago).

Some of them must have put their kids in childcare the first time after covid. How did they do it?

They started early because they knew they needed it. They didn't wait for a policy change and then have to scramble.

Yes, the parents were irresponsible, but there's a real problem. And it is much worse if you have a child with special needs, because then the available options are much more limited.

I'm both a federal worker and also one that cannot work remotely by the nature of my job. Both pre and post-COVID, the waitlists for infant spots in government facilities (ANY of them - we tried all of the ones in the area) were 2+ years. And yet, you could only put your name on the list if you were actually pregnant and had a due date. The waitlists for before/after-care were similar, and many of the programs that we looked at were closed permanently during our search. We were in fact kicked out of our first facility because there was so much demand that they decided to only serve families with two active duty parents (no civilian DOD or only one federal worker families). In order to keep our jobs, we turned to private daycare with no waitlists and ended up paying close to $3000/mo for one child, with a crazy commute well past our duty stations to drop our kid off. Most people in our workplaces (our employees) cannot afford to do this on multiple fronts: logistics, cost, availability. How exactly are these parents irresponsible?

It was a bad idea to initially only look at the centers in federal facilities, rather than also looking at a variety of center and home-based private programs.

My agency on-site daycare has 6 infant slots. Obviously that's not enough for everyone. Most people, myself included, had to find off-site programs.

Regardless, this seems like a strange arguement. You can't possibly think it is reasonable to expect to be the caregiver for an infant while teleworking, do you? That's crazy.

I can understand the people that just want to be home for that last hour after school bus dropoff, but I think people are grossly underestimating how much if a time/attention drain that is. One the previous posters that wanted this seemed to be busing her kids to different activities while on the clock. People like that are going to ruin this for everyone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can someone tell me how employees in private sectors handle all these childcare issues post-covid? For example, nurses, EMTs, polce officiers, teachers, supermarket workers, factory workers, etc.

Honestly, these people never took their kids out of childcare because they have never done WFH. They don’t have to worry about waitlists, etc. because they never gave up their child care slots to begin with.

Wait what? You don't think anyone in any of those categories has given birth since covid or has a kid who has moved from daycare age to elementary school age since covid, or has moved since covid? So, these issues that you seem to think didn't exist pre-covid (even though many of us who had kids pre-covid are telling you they did) couldn't possibly apply to them.

I think that saying that you feel that you are equally productive at home, and therefore shouldn't be asked to come in is valid. That's fine. But this idea that somehow you are facing brand new unique issues that no one faced before covid is absurd. Before covid, my kid was on a dozen daycare waiting lists before he was conceived, and cleared one. Before covid, my kid didn't get off the waiting list for kindergarten aftercare (all the spots went to kids who had been in PreK, but we didn't win the PreK lottery) at our in bounds DCPS for the entire year, causing me to scrabble together care and eventually move him to a charter school. Childcare has been a problem for a long time in this country, and it's harder for the people listed above who generally have inflexible hours, and often works shifts, than it is for most office workers.

You can take a deep breath. I don’t have a true side in this fight since my kids are now in 7th grade, and my DH is not a fed and not RTO more than the standard 1 day a week he’s been doing since Covid. When our kids were in day care and after care we made it work, we didn’t stamp our feet and cry, we just figured it out, which is what most of the people you’re asking about did and do. Our kids went to a basic day care until they hit K and then they did the after care program at their school (shout out KAH) until COVID hit. Yes, day care was expensive AF and getting spots required persistence and a willingness to go somewhere that wasn’t our first choice. It is mind boggling to me that people think this is a new concept just because it’s now happening to them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can someone tell me how employees in private sectors handle all these childcare issues post-covid? For example, nurses, EMTs, polce officiers, teachers, supermarket workers, factory workers, etc.

Well, they often leave kids home alone, occasionally with an older (ie., 10 year old) child.

What? No, we make life choices that acknowledge that we actually e full time jobs. So, after care, nanny, grandparents, daycare, split shifts/ night shift, SAHM parent by choice for a few years, etc. college student babysitter just for pickup/driving to activities….

I never understood why office workers assume all frontline workers are poor and do things like skip childcare to save money. We often make more than a basic fed, actually.

No one said anything about ~all~ people who must work in person. I have a distant relative (think cousin's sister-in-law) who regularly leaves her 8-year-old alone for 4pm-midnight because she is a hotel receptionist and can't afford childcare and is a single mom. I grew up being home by myself from 3-7pm because my parents both worked. Remember the 'latchkey kid'?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are a lot of women employed FT in professional careers really saying they have no childcare? That's not what I've seen on DCUM. People are often talking about the extra time for commuting and difference of being out of the house. So like a 10yp may come home from school and not have childcare from 4-5pm because they can entertain themselves while parent works. But the parent may not want them actually alone in the house. It's a childcare gap. Same with the mornings before school opens - I would need beforecare to RTO and it might not be available this school year (already full). Or preschool may close at 5pm but with commute I'd get home later than that, etc.

WFH necessitates childcare if you have a real job but can be for fewer hours, or you cover the occasional days off and breaks without always taking PTO etc

OP here - I consider a childcare gap a lack of childcare. Before or after school care programs are not going to quickly sprout up.

+1
And even if kids can entertain themselves a bit or parents find programs, the kids can't magically transport themselves and they can't drive yet. So parents (all parents, dads too) need that flexibility after school. Strict RTO mean that these good employees will no longer be bending backwards to check mails and handle things after business hours.

I think you’re ranting about things you have no idea about. Kids can’t transport themselves? The aftercare programs all have buses and vans that pick up at our school. Parents don’t need to drive their kids to ballet or karate or gymnastics.

I'm so glad your data point of one is universal.

What school doesn't have that? Give us an example.

Our public elementary in DCPS definitely does want have transportation to activities.

Elementary school kids don’t need to be bused to activities. aftercare is fine.

It is fine. But it’s not great.

Being able to come right home from school to play with neighborhood friends, go to an extracurricular that they’re interested in, or even just have some free play is better. I know being out of the house 45-50 hours/week (i.e. 8-5:30/6) is tiring for many adults, I wouldn’t choose this for a young elementary kid. It is fine if it is what you have to do, but let’s not act like this is more ideal than kids getting to play soccer, learn an instrument, take tutoring classes, go to scouts meetings, etc. and having a family meal together.

if that’s your ideal AND you want both parents to work FT, you need a better plan than assuming that covid-era telework (for positions that are not actually fully remote) will last forever.

I have some millennial coworkers who had kids and bought houses way out in the burbs during covid. I feel for them but truly, they shouldn’t have counted on max telework lasting indefinitely. I also have a GenX coworker who relocated across the country during covid - at least she fully knows she’ll be terminated when they eventually catch up to her.

Except the plan had gone fine for over a decade now …

All of you calling telework a “COVID era” thing are really behind the times. My DH is in the private sector and has had some form of telework (either hybrid or full time like now) since at least 2010.

But that hasn't been allowed for feds except for at the height of the pandemic. And the pp didn't describe telework. She described bailing from work mid-afternoon to take her kids to practices and activities.

What specifically hasn't been happening except for at the height of the pandemic? Regular telework has been a thing for feds for at least 10 years.

Allowing you to be a caregiver for dependents while teleworking was only allowed at the height of the pandemic. It was expressly prohibited before, and that language has almost certainly worked its way back in to telework and remote work agreements.

But...no one is talking about trying to have their young kids at home while also working, at least in this thread. People are talking about commutes and aftercare, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Other than a few months early in COVID were all daycares shut down. Never in my fed office has it been acceptable to not have daycare. Not sure why folks think they can work AND watch kids. Those are two jobs and you can't do either fully if you're trying to do both at the same time.

How are some of you this stupid?

If you have elementary aged kids (which is the situation most people in this thread are discussing), you generally don’t need to “watch” them when they get home from school - but you do need to be *available* in case there is some sort of emergency. There is absolutely zero reason why a parent can’t work effectively from a home office while their school aged kids play in the next room (or the backyard).

No that is for children 16+

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What all companies should do is have 6-2 shifts and 10-6 shifts. That way one parent can cover the morning duties and the other parent can cover after school duties.

This is what will end up happening. After people stop panicking, and DOGE doesn’t change the standard workday to 8-6, people will flex their office time (within reason, they aren’t going to let people start their day at 4 am or noon) to meet their needs. It can be done. Yes, it sucks more than WFH when you have kids that need to be shuttled places after school, but one parent starts their workday at 7 and leaves at 3 and the other starts at 9:30 and leaves at 5:30. It’s really ok. We all did it before, you can do it too.

But why should we? If there was a business need then sure, but why should we go back to the old way of doing things? In what other aspect of life are we ignoring technological advancement to go backwards in time?

And I’ll be a honest, I don’t want to do this. This isn’t a lifestyle I’m interested in. I didn’t commute 5x/week even before COVID. I also don’t want to work for minimum wage, work for a crappy boss, etc. I don’t think it’s unreasonable for employees to say this is a dealbreaker for me.

This may mean looking for another job, which you clearly don’t care about, but I don’t need some patronizing reassurance that I’m able to do it too. Like I know I am capable of all sorts of stuff I don’t want to do. Those of us with options to work elsewhere can say no to this.

Then instead of bellyaching on DCUM start your job search. You can ask why we have to RTO when the current state of technology allows us to work just as effectively from home until the cows come home, but it is not changing the fact that RTO is happening for the feds. It is what it is, and engaging in debates about “why do we have to” is meaningless with the incoming administration, that time is better spent on your job search.

[Anonymous]

It's gaps in childcare that make things hard for people with kids in school. If you've been working from home with an infant or toddler - that's problematic. I think people who are seriously going to be hit are the honest folks who can't find before or after school care for their kids. If flex work/situational telework goes away, I'll have to either quit or go part time if we RTO full time because there are no options for after care. Believe me - I'm on every waitlist imaginable and there are no babysitter options. It is what it is.