RTO and No Childcare.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Are a lot of women employed FT in professional careers really saying they have no childcare? That's not what I've seen on DCUM. People are often talking about the extra time for commuting and difference of being out of the house. So like a 10yp may come home from school and not have childcare from 4-5pm because they can entertain themselves while parent works. But the parent may not want them actually alone in the house. It's a childcare gap. Same with the mornings before school opens - I would need beforecare to RTO and it might not be available this school year (already full). Or preschool may close at 5pm but with commute I'd get home later than that, etc.

WFH necessitates childcare if you have a real job but can be for fewer hours, or you cover the occasional days off and breaks without always taking PTO etc

OP here - I consider a childcare gap a lack of childcare. Before or after school care programs are not going to quickly sprout up.

+1
And even if kids can entertain themselves a bit or parents find programs, the kids can't magically transport themselves and they can't drive yet. So parents (all parents, dads too) need that flexibility after school. Strict RTO mean that these good employees will no longer be bending backwards to check mails and handle things after business hours.

I think you’re ranting about things you have no idea about. Kids can’t transport themselves? The aftercare programs all have buses and vans that pick up at our school. Parents don’t need to drive their kids to ballet or karate or gymnastics.

I'm so glad your data point of one is universal.

What school doesn't have that? Give us an example.

Our public elementary in DCPS definitely does want have transportation to activities.

Elementary school kids don’t need to be bused to activities. aftercare is fine.

It is fine. But it’s not great.

Being able to come right home from school to play with neighborhood friends, go to an extracurricular that they’re interested in, or even just have some free play is better. I know being out of the house 45-50 hours/week (i.e. 8-5:30/6) is tiring for many adults, I wouldn’t choose this for a young elementary kid. It is fine if it is what you have to do, but let’s not act like this is more ideal than kids getting to play soccer, learn an instrument, take tutoring classes, go to scouts meetings, etc. and having a family meal together.

if that’s your ideal AND you want both parents to work FT, you need a better plan than assuming that covid-era telework (for positions that are not actually fully remote) will last forever.

I have some millennial coworkers who had kids and bought houses way out in the burbs during covid. I feel for them but truly, they shouldn’t have counted on max telework lasting indefinitely. I also have a GenX coworker who relocated across the country during covid - at least she fully knows she’ll be terminated when they eventually catch up to her.

Except the plan had gone fine for over a decade now …

All of you calling telework a “COVID era” thing are really behind the times. My DH is in the private sector and has had some form of telework (either hybrid or full time like now) since at least 2010.

But that hasn't been allowed for feds except for at the height of the pandemic. And the pp didn't describe telework. She described bailing from work mid-afternoon to take her kids to practices and activities.

What specifically hasn't been happening except for at the height of the pandemic? Regular telework has been a thing for feds for at least 10 years.

Allowing you to be a caregiver for dependents while teleworking was only allowed at the height of the pandemic. It was expressly prohibited before, and that language has almost certainly worked its way back in to telework and remote work agreements.

But...no one is talking about trying to have their young kids at home while also working, at least in this thread. People are talking about commutes and aftercare, etc.

You haven't been reading all the posts then. One person just described telework as a way to avoid infant child care programs, citing both the difficulty of finding a spot and the expense. Another person said she wanted to drive her kids to activities rather than putting them in aftercare.

My husband and I can drive our kids to activities that start at 5:30. If we had to commute we couldn’t. We’re not driving them during the work day but it still makes it easier. Similarly, I’m fine with my 12 year old coming home, letting herself in, and making a snack / hanging out from 3-5 but I’d probably have to hire someone to be home if we weren’t.

I'd be incredibly surprised if agencies get rid of flexible schedules completely. You ought to be able to start and leave an hour earlier.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are a lot of women employed FT in professional careers really saying they have no childcare? That's not what I've seen on DCUM. People are often talking about the extra time for commuting and difference of being out of the house. So like a 10yp may come home from school and not have childcare from 4-5pm because they can entertain themselves while parent works. But the parent may not want them actually alone in the house. It's a childcare gap. Same with the mornings before school opens - I would need beforecare to RTO and it might not be available this school year (already full). Or preschool may close at 5pm but with commute I'd get home later than that, etc.

WFH necessitates childcare if you have a real job but can be for fewer hours, or you cover the occasional days off and breaks without always taking PTO etc

OP here - I consider a childcare gap a lack of childcare. Before or after school care programs are not going to quickly sprout up.

+1
And even if kids can entertain themselves a bit or parents find programs, the kids can't magically transport themselves and they can't drive yet. So parents (all parents, dads too) need that flexibility after school. Strict RTO mean that these good employees will no longer be bending backwards to check mails and handle things after business hours.

I think you’re ranting about things you have no idea about. Kids can’t transport themselves? The aftercare programs all have buses and vans that pick up at our school. Parents don’t need to drive their kids to ballet or karate or gymnastics.

I'm so glad your data point of one is universal.

What school doesn't have that? Give us an example.

Our public elementary in DCPS definitely does want have transportation to activities.

Elementary school kids don’t need to be bused to activities. aftercare is fine.

It is fine. But it’s not great.

Being able to come right home from school to play with neighborhood friends, go to an extracurricular that they’re interested in, or even just have some free play is better. I know being out of the house 45-50 hours/week (i.e. 8-5:30/6) is tiring for many adults, I wouldn’t choose this for a young elementary kid. It is fine if it is what you have to do, but let’s not act like this is more ideal than kids getting to play soccer, learn an instrument, take tutoring classes, go to scouts meetings, etc. and having a family meal together.

if that’s your ideal AND you want both parents to work FT, you need a better plan than assuming that covid-era telework (for positions that are not actually fully remote) will last forever.

I have some millennial coworkers who had kids and bought houses way out in the burbs during covid. I feel for them but truly, they shouldn’t have counted on max telework lasting indefinitely. I also have a GenX coworker who relocated across the country during covid - at least she fully knows she’ll be terminated when they eventually catch up to her.

Please explain why they need to return to the office.

because it’s not good for human beings to be anti-social.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are a lot of women employed FT in professional careers really saying they have no childcare? That's not what I've seen on DCUM. People are often talking about the extra time for commuting and difference of being out of the house. So like a 10yp may come home from school and not have childcare from 4-5pm because they can entertain themselves while parent works. But the parent may not want them actually alone in the house. It's a childcare gap. Same with the mornings before school opens - I would need beforecare to RTO and it might not be available this school year (already full). Or preschool may close at 5pm but with commute I'd get home later than that, etc.

WFH necessitates childcare if you have a real job but can be for fewer hours, or you cover the occasional days off and breaks without always taking PTO etc

OP here - I consider a childcare gap a lack of childcare. Before or after school care programs are not going to quickly sprout up.

+1
And even if kids can entertain themselves a bit or parents find programs, the kids can't magically transport themselves and they can't drive yet. So parents (all parents, dads too) need that flexibility after school. Strict RTO mean that these good employees will no longer be bending backwards to check mails and handle things after business hours.

I think you’re ranting about things you have no idea about. Kids can’t transport themselves? The aftercare programs all have buses and vans that pick up at our school. Parents don’t need to drive their kids to ballet or karate or gymnastics.

I'm so glad your data point of one is universal.

What school doesn't have that? Give us an example.

Our public elementary in DCPS definitely does want have transportation to activities.

There are 0 vans / buses for activities at our Arlington elementary. Extended Care is full for the year with a waitlist. People have already committed to sports teams, paid for a full year of dance lessons, etc. School break camps are already full for the year. Parents can make different choices in the future, it’s the mid-year change that is the issue.

Also what fantasy world do you live in where extended day is “good enough” for elementary? Travel sports start in 2nd and 3rd grade. Kids don’t magically just show up in middle school and start new hobbies and sports having never participated in anything before. No 12 yr old is rolling into beginner fencing or karate or ballet with a bunch of 7yr olds.

lol lady. federal HR policy is not going to cater to your desire to put take your 7 year old to fencing class.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are a lot of women employed FT in professional careers really saying they have no childcare? That's not what I've seen on DCUM. People are often talking about the extra time for commuting and difference of being out of the house. So like a 10yp may come home from school and not have childcare from 4-5pm because they can entertain themselves while parent works. But the parent may not want them actually alone in the house. It's a childcare gap. Same with the mornings before school opens - I would need beforecare to RTO and it might not be available this school year (already full). Or preschool may close at 5pm but with commute I'd get home later than that, etc.

WFH necessitates childcare if you have a real job but can be for fewer hours, or you cover the occasional days off and breaks without always taking PTO etc

OP here - I consider a childcare gap a lack of childcare. Before or after school care programs are not going to quickly sprout up.

+1
And even if kids can entertain themselves a bit or parents find programs, the kids can't magically transport themselves and they can't drive yet. So parents (all parents, dads too) need that flexibility after school. Strict RTO mean that these good employees will no longer be bending backwards to check mails and handle things after business hours.

I think you’re ranting about things you have no idea about. Kids can’t transport themselves? The aftercare programs all have buses and vans that pick up at our school. Parents don’t need to drive their kids to ballet or karate or gymnastics.

I'm so glad your data point of one is universal.

What school doesn't have that? Give us an example.

Our public elementary in DCPS definitely does want have transportation to activities.

Elementary school kids don’t need to be bused to activities. aftercare is fine.

It is fine. But it’s not great.

Being able to come right home from school to play with neighborhood friends, go to an extracurricular that they’re interested in, or even just have some free play is better. I know being out of the house 45-50 hours/week (i.e. 8-5:30/6) is tiring for many adults, I wouldn’t choose this for a young elementary kid. It is fine if it is what you have to do, but let’s not act like this is more ideal than kids getting to play soccer, learn an instrument, take tutoring classes, go to scouts meetings, etc. and having a family meal together.

if that’s your ideal AND you want both parents to work FT, you need a better plan than assuming that covid-era telework (for positions that are not actually fully remote) will last forever.

I have some millennial coworkers who had kids and bought houses way out in the burbs during covid. I feel for them but truly, they shouldn’t have counted on max telework lasting indefinitely. I also have a GenX coworker who relocated across the country during covid - at least she fully knows she’ll be terminated when they eventually catch up to her.

Please explain why they need to return to the office.

because it’s not good for human beings to be anti-social.

Be serious, or at least try. I talk to people all day long when I telework.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Other than a few months early in COVID were all daycares shut down. Never in my fed office has it been acceptable to not have daycare. Not sure why folks think they can work AND watch kids. Those are two jobs and you can't do either fully if you're trying to do both at the same time.

How are some of you this stupid?

If you have elementary aged kids (which is the situation most people in this thread are discussing), you generally don’t need to “watch” them when they get home from school - but you do need to be *available* in case there is some sort of emergency. There is absolutely zero reason why a parent can’t work effectively from a home office while their school aged kids play in the next room (or the backyard).

Pre Covid I had ES aged kids for whom I cobbled together after care as well as going in as early as possible but leaving at the same time and a spouse who went in as late as possible. Between all that we managed to get our kids where they needed to go. And they were in LOTS of activities including multiple travel sports. Leave was used to accommodate holidays/sickness. I did have T/W then but I also had bosses that expected my full attention to my job, while they were you know paying me. Actions have consequences and kids require care.

PS - I don't know what kind of unicorn kids you have, but short of having one, unlimited, screen for each there is no way a days worth of work can get done without breaking up fights, reminding them to do something, feeding them (or reminding them to feed/clean up) etc. But hey maybe you do have them.

Again, how are some of you this stupid? The bulk of your work day occurs while the kids are AT SCHOOL.

(Also, my kids aren’t “unicorns” but they do sound far more competent and capable than what you’re describing. Maybe your stupidity rubbed off on your kids (intelligence is heritable, after all) or maybe you’re just a sh!tty parent.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can someone tell me how employees in private sectors handle all these childcare issues post-covid? For example, nurses, EMTs, polce officiers, teachers, supermarket workers, factory workers, etc.

EMTs, police, and teachers aren't private sector workers.

But they live and work in the suburbs, eliminating the commute issue. Or they and their spouse work shifts, so they can stagger their availability. Shift work also allows them to commute at off times.

Please don’t make the assumption that we have it easier.

My suburb commute to the high school in which I work is 40 minutes. My spouse’s suburb commute is 35 in another direction.

Even with shift work, we need help with the overlap. And so we face the same problems you do, and we have to pay for care.

The difference is we are used to working away from the home, and so RTO means nothing to us. We’ve been doing this all along.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Other than a few months early in COVID were all daycares shut down. Never in my fed office has it been acceptable to not have daycare. Not sure why folks think they can work AND watch kids. Those are two jobs and you can't do either fully if you're trying to do both at the same time.

How are some of you this stupid?

If you have elementary aged kids (which is the situation most people in this thread are discussing), you generally don’t need to “watch” them when they get home from school - but you do need to be *available* in case there is some sort of emergency. There is absolutely zero reason why a parent can’t work effectively from a home office while their school aged kids play in the next room (or the backyard).

No that is for children 16+

Depends on the kid, but 12+ should be fine for most. Basically, when they are roughly self-sufficient.

LOL. If your kids aren’t roughly self-sufficient until they’re 12 years old you’re doing something VERY wrong.

Maybe you should have actually prioritized spending more time with them after all?

[Anonymous]

My old job I had this conversation with a new Mom. Wanted Remote.

One kid, husband and inlaws lived with her and her parents up the road none wanted to watch kid. She did not want to stay home and did not want to pay daycare.

Somehow she thought it was my problem to solve.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Other than a few months early in COVID were all daycares shut down. Never in my fed office has it been acceptable to not have daycare. Not sure why folks think they can work AND watch kids. Those are two jobs and you can't do either fully if you're trying to do both at the same time.

How are some of you this stupid?

If you have elementary aged kids (which is the situation most people in this thread are discussing), you generally don’t need to “watch” them when they get home from school - but you do need to be *available* in case there is some sort of emergency. There is absolutely zero reason why a parent can’t work effectively from a home office while their school aged kids play in the next room (or the backyard).

I understand your perspective, but it’s important to consider both the legal and practical implications of supervising children while working from home, especially in government roles.

Balancing work and childcare isn’t just a personal decision; it has legal and professional requirements. Telework agreements for government employees explicitly state that appropriate childcare arrangements must be in place while working. It’s illegal to manage both responsibilities simultaneously, whether you're physically supervising or just "listening in." You're expected to fully account for your work hours, with no distractions from other responsibilities.

Childcare While Teleworking: A Professional Expectation
Think of childcare the same way you would if you were in the office: the expectation is that your children are being cared for by someone else. Telework is a convenience, not a substitute for childcare. It was never intended to subsidize your childcare needs but rather to provide flexibility for where you work, not how you manage dual responsibilities.

Age Guidelines and Childcare Needs
8 years and under: Must always be in the care of a responsible person. They should never be left unsupervised in homes, cars, playgrounds, or yards.
9 to 10 years: May be left unsupervised for up to 1.5 hours during daylight and early evening hours.
11 to 12 years: May be left unsupervised for up to 3 hours during daylight and early evening hours.
13 to 15 years: May be left unsupervised for more than 3 hours but not overnight.
16 and older: May be left unsupervised overnight for 1 to 2 days with a plan in place.
These guidelines underscore that children, especially elementary-aged, require supervision. Teleworking doesn’t change that responsibility. For your role to remain compliant and effective, proper childcare arrangements must be in place, ensuring both your productivity and your children’s safety.

Listen, dummy. Y’all don’t get to gaslight us anymore about what’s illegal or ethical when it comes to Federal employment after voting that traitor back into office. Just stop.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can someone tell me how employees in private sectors handle all these childcare issues post-covid? For example, nurses, EMTs, polce officiers, teachers, supermarket workers, factory workers, etc.

EMTs, police, and teachers aren't private sector workers.

But they live and work in the suburbs, eliminating the commute issue. Or they and their spouse work shifts, so they can stagger their availability. Shift work also allows them to commute at off times.

Please don’t make the assumption that we have it easier.

My suburb commute to the high school in which I work is 40 minutes. My spouse’s suburb commute is 35 in another direction.

Even with shift work, we need help with the overlap. And so we face the same problems you do, and we have to pay for care.

The difference is we are used to working away from the home, and so RTO means nothing to us. We’ve been doing this all along.

My apologies. I didn't mean to assume. I work with a lot of LEOs and my observations are that some, but certainly not all, are able to make it work in the ways I mentioned above. Obviously teachers, EMTs, and police aren't immune from the same childcare issues that conventional 9-5 (or 8-6, I guess) workers face.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can someone tell me how employees in private sectors handle all these childcare issues post-covid? For example, nurses, EMTs, polce officiers, teachers, supermarket workers, factory workers, etc.

EMTs, police, and teachers aren't private sector workers.

But they live and work in the suburbs, eliminating the commute issue. Or they and their spouse work shifts, so they can stagger their availability. Shift work also allows them to commute at off times.

Please don’t make the assumption that we have it easier.

My suburb commute to the high school in which I work is 40 minutes. My spouse’s suburb commute is 35 in another direction.

Even with shift work, we need help with the overlap. And so we face the same problems you do, and we have to pay for care.

The difference is we are used to working away from the home, and so RTO means nothing to us. We’ve been doing this all along.

My apologies. I didn't mean to assume. I work with a lot of LEOs and my observations are that some, but certainly not all, are able to make it work in the ways I mentioned above. Obviously teachers, EMTs, and police aren't immune from the same childcare issues that conventional 9-5 (or 8-6, I guess) workers face.

Teachers generally get out at the same time as their kids. Very different. I quit years ago due to child care costs. It would have taken my entire pay check for one child. Not worth it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can someone tell me how employees in private sectors handle all these childcare issues post-covid? For example, nurses, EMTs, polce officiers, teachers, supermarket workers, factory workers, etc.

EMTs, police, and teachers aren't private sector workers.

But they live and work in the suburbs, eliminating the commute issue. Or they and their spouse work shifts, so they can stagger their availability. Shift work also allows them to commute at off times.

Please don’t make the assumption that we have it easier.

My suburb commute to the high school in which I work is 40 minutes. My spouse’s suburb commute is 35 in another direction.

Even with shift work, we need help with the overlap. And so we face the same problems you do, and we have to pay for care.

The difference is we are used to working away from the home, and so RTO means nothing to us. We’ve been doing this all along.

My apologies. I didn't mean to assume. I work with a lot of LEOs and my observations are that some, but certainly not all, are able to make it work in the ways I mentioned above. Obviously teachers, EMTs, and police aren't immune from the same childcare issues that conventional 9-5 (or 8-6, I guess) workers face.

Teachers generally get out at the same time as their kids. Very different. I quit years ago due to child care costs. It would have taken my entire pay check for one child. Not worth it.

Not if your child goes to another school, which is often the case.

My school gets out at 3:30. My child needs to be picked up at 2:50, 20 minutes away.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can someone tell me how employees in private sectors handle all these childcare issues post-covid? For example, nurses, EMTs, polce officiers, teachers, supermarket workers, factory workers, etc.

Well, they often leave kids home alone, occasionally with an older (ie., 10 year old) child.

What? No, we make life choices that acknowledge that we actually e full time jobs. So, after care, nanny, grandparents, daycare, split shifts/ night shift, SAHM parent by choice for a few years, etc. college student babysitter just for pickup/driving to activities….

I never understood why office workers assume all frontline workers are poor and do things like skip childcare to save money. We often make more than a basic fed, actually.

Some of us cannot afford a nanny or day care on our salaries. I was a social worker. Take home barely covered day care for one. I quit and never looked back. My spouse is rto in Jan and has been at home for years before Covid. Now, instead of the 10+ hours he will work his 8 and not be flexible. No more dinner or commute phone calls. He’ll be in by six and leave at 4-5. Less productive, less flexibility.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Another reason why 1950s America was better.

For white mothers.
Black mothers didn’t have that privilege

Or poor women. My husband's grandmother worked in a factory as did her husband in the 50s.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Other than a few months early in COVID were all daycares shut down. Never in my fed office has it been acceptable to not have daycare. Not sure why folks think they can work AND watch kids. Those are two jobs and you can't do either fully if you're trying to do both at the same time.

How are some of you this stupid?

If you have elementary aged kids (which is the situation most people in this thread are discussing), you generally don’t need to “watch” them when they get home from school - but you do need to be *available* in case there is some sort of emergency. There is absolutely zero reason why a parent can’t work effectively from a home office while their school aged kids play in the next room (or the backyard).

I understand your perspective, but it’s important to consider both the legal and practical implications of supervising children while working from home, especially in government roles.

Balancing work and childcare isn’t just a personal decision; it has legal and professional requirements. Telework agreements for government employees explicitly state that appropriate childcare arrangements must be in place while working. It’s illegal to manage both responsibilities simultaneously, whether you're physically supervising or just "listening in." You're expected to fully account for your work hours, with no distractions from other responsibilities.

Childcare While Teleworking: A Professional Expectation
Think of childcare the same way you would if you were in the office: the expectation is that your children are being cared for by someone else. Telework is a convenience, not a substitute for childcare. It was never intended to subsidize your childcare needs but rather to provide flexibility for where you work, not how you manage dual responsibilities.

Age Guidelines and Childcare Needs
8 years and under: Must always be in the care of a responsible person. They should never be left unsupervised in homes, cars, playgrounds, or yards.
9 to 10 years: May be left unsupervised for up to 1.5 hours during daylight and early evening hours.
11 to 12 years: May be left unsupervised for up to 3 hours during daylight and early evening hours.
13 to 15 years: May be left unsupervised for more than 3 hours but not overnight.
16 and older: May be left unsupervised overnight for 1 to 2 days with a plan in place.
These guidelines underscore that children, especially elementary-aged, require supervision. Teleworking doesn’t change that responsibility. For your role to remain compliant and effective, proper childcare arrangements must be in place, ensuring both your productivity and your children’s safety.

Listen, dummy. Y’all don’t get to gaslight us anymore about what’s illegal or ethical when it comes to Federal employment after voting that traitor back into office. Just stop.

Biden is leaving and i hopefully you will too whether by RTO or by being on the black list of troubled and treasonous govt workers