SAHMs and marriage dynamics?

[Anonymous]

HHI is not at all the right metric. The two things that matter most are your long term financial needs and your expenses for the life you’re happy living.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not the PP, but seriously? You couldn’t imagine living on 300k? Do you know the average HHI for a family of 4 in the DMV is $138k?

I love how irritated this makes people. Yeah, I’d hate to lose half my income after DH and I spent years in school/training and worked our butts off to make the money we do now. As in I wouldn’t SAH, which is the topic of this thread. I was also responding to the PP who said $400k doesn’t feel enough. Trust me we are not the only people who feel that way.

But this is fine! Totally legitimate. Other people feeling otherwise doesn’t hurt you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Quick minor hijacking of the thread, if you will forgive me and humor the side question. DCUM readers skew affluent; I'd be curious to know how much this affluent group thinks is enough annual income from the working outside home parent to have the other parent SAH, in a two-kid family.

I got divorced, with elementary and middle school kids. We both worked fulltime out of the house and had a HHI of around $700k. Now I'm a single person kids half-time, and I earn about $400k. $400k doesn't feel like a enough to me. Well, it is definitely "enough" but I'm a worry wart with money, and so it feels like cutting it too close - what if I lose my job, etc.? Maybe $600k with a sense of job security or marketable / moveable / in-demand skills?

I hear you. I have a HHI of 600k and I make about half. I can’t imagine losing the other half. I’m not even sending my kids to private school.

Where on earth does all your money go? We make 1/3 what you make and live comfortably.

DP.
They probably have a lot of fixed expenses. Most of them are taxes and housing, but they probably also have student loans and possibly car payments. They are probably also saving a lot for retirement and kids’ college tuition. They probably live far from family, so they are paying to outsource some things like cleaning and childcare, and they have to fly to see them once or twice a year.

Taxes: $200k
Housing (mortgage, taxes, maintenance): $120k
Student loans (two professional degrees): $35k
Car payments: $15k
Insurance (car, health, life, disability): $10k
Retirement: $65k
Kids’ college: $15k
Outsourcing (childcare, yard, biweekly cleaning): $50k
Vacations (one real vacation and otherwise go to visit family): $20k

Total: $530k

So, they have roughly $6k/month to pay for everything else including food, clothes, entertainment, furniture, gas, kids activities, etc.

It sounds like a lot, but they are like, “How is it that we make $600k/yr and still have an iPhone 6 and buy most of our clothes at Target? We don’t even send our kids to private school.”

I can see how it seems impossible to think about living on half of that.

Oh, I’m crying hot tears for their money anxiety….

FWIW, we have a higher HHI, but I would never do the woe is me crap. We bank plenty of money knowing it gives us a huge cushion should something happen to one of our jobs. If you are that worried, buy a cheaper house, a non-luxury car, and talk to a half decent CPA about how not to pay $200K in taxes on $600K. Some of these whiny posts sound like people who have zero financial planning ability.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Quick minor hijacking of the thread, if you will forgive me and humor the side question. DCUM readers skew affluent; I'd be curious to know how much this affluent group thinks is enough annual income from the working outside home parent to have the other parent SAH, in a two-kid family.

I got divorced, with elementary and middle school kids. We both worked fulltime out of the house and had a HHI of around $700k. Now I'm a single person kids half-time, and I earn about $400k. $400k doesn't feel like a enough to me. Well, it is definitely "enough" but I'm a worry wart with money, and so it feels like cutting it too close - what if I lose my job, etc.? Maybe $600k with a sense of job security or marketable / moveable / in-demand skills?

It’s hard to have your income decrease dramatically, whatever it is.
My husband developed a substance use disorder about two years out of residency, had to go to rehab for three months, and lost his job. We were living in a rural area at the time, and our HHI dropped from $450k/yr to $250k/yr.
I remember thinking it was crazy that I felt worried about money in that area with that HHI. It was double or even quadruple most of my friends HHI. One of my closest friends was a SAHM of six kids and married to a police officer. I, personally, had been in residency with an HHI of $90k just two years beforehand. Whatever your experience, it’s just a hard shift to make.

By the time DH got another job, though, we had adjusted to the change. We lived on just my income for a few years, and when I decided to cut back to very PT (like 5 hours/wk), we didn’t miss the income.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Quick minor hijacking of the thread, if you will forgive me and humor the side question. DCUM readers skew affluent; I'd be curious to know how much this affluent group thinks is enough annual income from the working outside home parent to have the other parent SAH, in a two-kid family.

I got divorced, with elementary and middle school kids. We both worked fulltime out of the house and had a HHI of around $700k. Now I'm a single person kids half-time, and I earn about $400k. $400k doesn't feel like a enough to me. Well, it is definitely "enough" but I'm a worry wart with money, and so it feels like cutting it too close - what if I lose my job, etc.? Maybe $600k with a sense of job security or marketable / moveable / in-demand skills?

I hear you. I have a HHI of 600k and I make about half. I can’t imagine losing the other half. I’m not even sending my kids to private school.

Where on earth does all your money go? We make 1/3 what you make and live comfortably.

DP.
They probably have a lot of fixed expenses. Most of them are taxes and housing, but they probably also have student loans and possibly car payments. They are probably also saving a lot for retirement and kids’ college tuition. They probably live far from family, so they are paying to outsource some things like cleaning and childcare, and they have to fly to see them once or twice a year.

Taxes: $200k
Housing (mortgage, taxes, maintenance): $120k
Student loans (two professional degrees): $35k
Car payments: $15k
Insurance (car, health, life, disability): $10k
Retirement: $65k
Kids’ college: $15k
Outsourcing (childcare, yard, biweekly cleaning): $50k
Vacations (one real vacation and otherwise go to visit family): $20k

Total: $530k

So, they have roughly $6k/month to pay for everything else including food, clothes, entertainment, furniture, gas, kids activities, etc.

It sounds like a lot, but they are like, “How is it that we make $600k/yr and still have an iPhone 6 and buy most of our clothes at Target? We don’t even send our kids to private school.”

I can see how it seems impossible to think about living on half of that.

Oh, I’m crying hot tears for their money anxiety….

FWIW, we have a higher HHI, but I would never do the woe is me crap. We bank plenty of money knowing it gives us a huge cushion should something happen to one of our jobs. If you are that worried, buy a cheaper house, a non-luxury car, and talk to a half decent CPA about how not to pay $200K in taxes on $600K. Some of these whiny posts sound like people who have zero financial planning ability.

Thank you, ha. It’s so tone deaf to complain about an income that is absolutely unimaginable to the vast majority of people.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Quick minor hijacking of the thread, if you will forgive me and humor the side question. DCUM readers skew affluent; I'd be curious to know how much this affluent group thinks is enough annual income from the working outside home parent to have the other parent SAH, in a two-kid family.

I got divorced, with elementary and middle school kids. We both worked fulltime out of the house and had a HHI of around $700k. Now I'm a single person kids half-time, and I earn about $400k. $400k doesn't feel like a enough to me. Well, it is definitely "enough" but I'm a worry wart with money, and so it feels like cutting it too close - what if I lose my job, etc.? Maybe $600k with a sense of job security or marketable / moveable / in-demand skills?

I hear you. I have a HHI of 600k and I make about half. I can’t imagine losing the other half. I’m not even sending my kids to private school.

Where on earth does all your money go? We make 1/3 what you make and live comfortably.

DP.
They probably have a lot of fixed expenses. Most of them are taxes and housing, but they probably also have student loans and possibly car payments. They are probably also saving a lot for retirement and kids’ college tuition. They probably live far from family, so they are paying to outsource some things like cleaning and childcare, and they have to fly to see them once or twice a year.

Taxes: $200k
Housing (mortgage, taxes, maintenance): $120k
Student loans (two professional degrees): $35k
Car payments: $15k
Insurance (car, health, life, disability): $10k
Retirement: $65k
Kids’ college: $15k
Outsourcing (childcare, yard, biweekly cleaning): $50k
Vacations (one real vacation and otherwise go to visit family): $20k

Total: $530k

So, they have roughly $6k/month to pay for everything else including food, clothes, entertainment, furniture, gas, kids activities, etc.

It sounds like a lot, but they are like, “How is it that we make $600k/yr and still have an iPhone 6 and buy most of our clothes at Target? We don’t even send our kids to private school.”

I can see how it seems impossible to think about living on half of that.

Oh, I’m crying hot tears for their money anxiety….

FWIW, we have a higher HHI, but I would never do the woe is me crap. We bank plenty of money knowing it gives us a huge cushion should something happen to one of our jobs. If you are that worried, buy a cheaper house, a non-luxury car, and talk to a half decent CPA about how not to pay $200K in taxes on $600K. Some of these whiny posts sound like people who have zero financial planning ability.

Who is whining or saying ‘woe is me?’
I was just bored and making a guess about where their money goes. I have never paid taxes on this income, so maybe I am way off.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We decided for me to SAH over 10 years ago when my DH made far less than he does now. I think he made MAYBE 100k/year. We cut back on everything to make it work. He makes around 1 mil/year now.

I haven’t had exactly this experience, but it did happen that when DH had complete flexibility at work, he was able to increase his income enough to cover my loss of income within a year or so.

We both wanted this, though. I wanted to be home with the kids, and he wanted to lean in harder at work. I would also have been fine with the flip and leaning in hard at work while he stayed at home with kids. Neither of us really liked the lifestyle where we were both trying to balance everything.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Quick minor hijacking of the thread, if you will forgive me and humor the side question. DCUM readers skew affluent; I'd be curious to know how much this affluent group thinks is enough annual income from the working outside home parent to have the other parent SAH, in a two-kid family.

I got divorced, with elementary and middle school kids. We both worked fulltime out of the house and had a HHI of around $700k. Now I'm a single person kids half-time, and I earn about $400k. $400k doesn't feel like a enough to me. Well, it is definitely "enough" but I'm a worry wart with money, and so it feels like cutting it too close - what if I lose my job, etc.? Maybe $600k with a sense of job security or marketable / moveable / in-demand skills?

I hear you. I have a HHI of 600k and I make about half. I can’t imagine losing the other half. I’m not even sending my kids to private school.

Where on earth does all your money go? We make 1/3 what you make and live comfortably.

DP.
They probably have a lot of fixed expenses. Most of them are taxes and housing, but they probably also have student loans and possibly car payments. They are probably also saving a lot for retirement and kids’ college tuition. They probably live far from family, so they are paying to outsource some things like cleaning and childcare, and they have to fly to see them once or twice a year.

Taxes: $200k
Housing (mortgage, taxes, maintenance): $120k
Student loans (two professional degrees): $35k
Car payments: $15k
Insurance (car, health, life, disability): $10k
Retirement: $65k
Kids’ college: $15k
Outsourcing (childcare, yard, biweekly cleaning): $50k
Vacations (one real vacation and otherwise go to visit family): $20k

Total: $530k

So, they have roughly $6k/month to pay for everything else including food, clothes, entertainment, furniture, gas, kids activities, etc.

It sounds like a lot, but they are like, “How is it that we make $600k/yr and still have an iPhone 6 and buy most of our clothes at Target? We don’t even send our kids to private school.”

I can see how it seems impossible to think about living on half of that.

Oh, I’m crying hot tears for their money anxiety….

FWIW, we have a higher HHI, but I would never do the woe is me crap. We bank plenty of money knowing it gives us a huge cushion should something happen to one of our jobs. If you are that worried, buy a cheaper house, a non-luxury car, and talk to a half decent CPA about how not to pay $200K in taxes on $600K. Some of these whiny posts sound like people who have zero financial planning ability.

$120k a year in housing? That's a mortgage of $10k a month.

[Anonymous]

I posted this earlier but didn't get responses. I understand the SAHM dynamic when the wife, in addition to the child care stuff, handles a lot of the stuff at home like the family financials/tax stuff, kids' college applications, supervising and paying people doing work around the house, etc. My dad traveled a lot and my grandpa was a military officer so this was the dynamic in my home growing up with the SAHM also handling these tasks and getting a lot of respect for it. But what do you make of families where the husband doesn't trust his wife to do these things or the wife doesn't know how? I feel like that is not as good a dynamic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We decided for me to SAH over 10 years ago when my DH made far less than he does now. I think he made MAYBE 100k/year. We cut back on everything to make it work. He makes around 1 mil/year now.

He probably wouldn't be where he is without your sacrifice. Sadly, not many men would do it for their wives.

I actually hate this. She is his mommy taking care of all personalities so he can be a workaholic. These kind of couples screw it up for parents who want an actual work-life balance.

[Anonymous]

* personal responsibilities, not personalities

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:* personal responsibilities, not personalities

Probably both

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Quick minor hijacking of the thread, if you will forgive me and humor the side question. DCUM readers skew affluent; I'd be curious to know how much this affluent group thinks is enough annual income from the working outside home parent to have the other parent SAH, in a two-kid family.

I got divorced, with elementary and middle school kids. We both worked fulltime out of the house and had a HHI of around $700k. Now I'm a single person kids half-time, and I earn about $400k. $400k doesn't feel like a enough to me. Well, it is definitely "enough" but I'm a worry wart with money, and so it feels like cutting it too close - what if I lose my job, etc.? Maybe $600k with a sense of job security or marketable / moveable / in-demand skills?

I hear you. I have a HHI of 600k and I make about half. I can’t imagine losing the other half. I’m not even sending my kids to private school.

Where on earth does all your money go? We make 1/3 what you make and live comfortably.

DP.
They probably have a lot of fixed expenses. Most of them are taxes and housing, but they probably also have student loans and possibly car payments. They are probably also saving a lot for retirement and kids’ college tuition. They probably live far from family, so they are paying to outsource some things like cleaning and childcare, and they have to fly to see them once or twice a year.

Taxes: $200k
Housing (mortgage, taxes, maintenance): $120k
Student loans (two professional degrees): $35k
Car payments: $15k
Insurance (car, health, life, disability): $10k
Retirement: $65k
Kids’ college: $15k
Outsourcing (childcare, yard, biweekly cleaning): $50k
Vacations (one real vacation and otherwise go to visit family): $20k

Total: $530k

So, they have roughly $6k/month to pay for everything else including food, clothes, entertainment, furniture, gas, kids activities, etc.

It sounds like a lot, but they are like, “How is it that we make $600k/yr and still have an iPhone 6 and buy most of our clothes at Target? We don’t even send our kids to private school.”

I can see how it seems impossible to think about living on half of that.

Oh, I’m crying hot tears for their money anxiety….

FWIW, we have a higher HHI, but I would never do the woe is me crap. We bank plenty of money knowing it gives us a huge cushion should something happen to one of our jobs. If you are that worried, buy a cheaper house, a non-luxury car, and talk to a half decent CPA about how not to pay $200K in taxes on $600K. Some of these whiny posts sound like people who have zero financial planning ability.

$120k a year in housing? That's a mortgage of $10k a month.

Pp here. I was thinking a $1.5 million house with $300k down and spending about 2% of the value of the home every year in home maintenance.

Does that seem far off for this income?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We decided for me to SAH over 10 years ago when my DH made far less than he does now. I think he made MAYBE 100k/year. We cut back on everything to make it work. He makes around 1 mil/year now.

He probably wouldn't be where he is without your sacrifice. Sadly, not many men would do it for their wives.

I actually hate this. She is his mommy taking care of all personalities so he can be a workaholic. These kind of couples screw it up for parents who want an actual work-life balance.

No that’s not it at all. You have a lot of nerve characterizing other people’s marriages to fit your own narrative. F off.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Quick minor hijacking of the thread, if you will forgive me and humor the side question. DCUM readers skew affluent; I'd be curious to know how much this affluent group thinks is enough annual income from the working outside home parent to have the other parent SAH, in a two-kid family.

I got divorced, with elementary and middle school kids. We both worked fulltime out of the house and had a HHI of around $700k. Now I'm a single person kids half-time, and I earn about $400k. $400k doesn't feel like a enough to me. Well, it is definitely "enough" but I'm a worry wart with money, and so it feels like cutting it too close - what if I lose my job, etc.? Maybe $600k with a sense of job security or marketable / moveable / in-demand skills?

I hear you. I have a HHI of 600k and I make about half. I can’t imagine losing the other half. I’m not even sending my kids to private school.

Where on earth does all your money go? We make 1/3 what you make and live comfortably.

DP.
They probably have a lot of fixed expenses. Most of them are taxes and housing, but they probably also have student loans and possibly car payments. They are probably also saving a lot for retirement and kids’ college tuition. They probably live far from family, so they are paying to outsource some things like cleaning and childcare, and they have to fly to see them once or twice a year.

Taxes: $200k
Housing (mortgage, taxes, maintenance): $120k
Student loans (two professional degrees): $35k
Car payments: $15k
Insurance (car, health, life, disability): $10k
Retirement: $65k
Kids’ college: $15k
Outsourcing (childcare, yard, biweekly cleaning): $50k
Vacations (one real vacation and otherwise go to visit family): $20k

Total: $530k

So, they have roughly $6k/month to pay for everything else including food, clothes, entertainment, furniture, gas, kids activities, etc.

It sounds like a lot, but they are like, “How is it that we make $600k/yr and still have an iPhone 6 and buy most of our clothes at Target? We don’t even send our kids to private school.”

I can see how it seems impossible to think about living on half of that.

HA thanks for the hypothetical breakdown! We actually have the latest iPhones and don't buy clothes at Target, but that would be fine too

In fact, I never said I didn't have enough money (or was complaining about money) at 600K. I'm just saying I wouldn't want that to go down to $300K. Yeah, we would figure it out, but I wouldn't be thrilled about it! I made choices on how to spend/save money based on my current income. I didn't make it based on what happens if our income were to suddenly drop to $300K. We have stable jobs and I'm not constantly thinking about some doomsday scenario where one of us loses our jobs or becomes disabled. Does that make sense, you guys?