The death of Allie Hart and the need for safer streets

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

So, my question that she should have walked to the grocery store is affirmative for you? She shouldn't have driven through the neighborhood because children live there?

I mean, it does seem kind of obvious that if she had walked rather than driven to the grocery store, she wouldn't have almost hit the child while she was driving? That doesn't make it her fault for having driven. However, we'd all be safer on the streets if it were easier for more people to walk rather than drive to the grocery store.

I agree that would be a dream to walk to an affordable, well-stocked grocery store.

But, the fault thing still is a bit nebulous. Another anecdote: My dad's BFF's life was ruined when he killed two pedestrians who stepped off a median to jay walk in front of him. He went into a depression, stopped talking to anyone and my dad never saw him again. He clearly was traumatized, but it was determined by all witnesses that it was not his fault. That's why I initially questioned that everyone who killed a pedestrian should be sentenced. I'm not sure it would have beneficial for anyone (including taxpayers) to have him in jail. But, clearly most people on this thread disagree and believe he is a monster.

I think it's pretty clear that for a lot of people, killing someone while driving is deeply traumatic. Although not for everyone, because some people who killed someone while driving continue to drive dangerously.

Also, I doubt that locking up after the fact is very effective for preventing other people from doing it.

Did you know that "jaywalk" is a pejorative invented by the auto industry to shift the blame from drivers to pedestrians? It's true. And it worked, and here we are.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone know what actually happened?

It seems like the dad shouldn't have let a small child bike across the crosswalk alone. But is that what happened?

The driver hit the child in a crosswalk and killed her. That's what happened.

Did she dart out on her bike or was she watching for traffic? Where was the dad? The the truck stop at the stop sign?

She was five. There are no circumstances where it's acceptable for a five-year-old to be killed by a driver. Instead of asking whom to blame, please ask how to prevent this from happening to others. What can we do to make streets that are safe for five-year-olds?

There is nothing you can do to prevent this from happening again, ok. It is absolutely tragic and it's horrible, but pedestrian deaths are a fact of life.

Driving is not taken seriously in this country. People just don't pay attention. But I don't think you or anyone else can change those things.

Here are five things off the top of my head that can be done to reduce pedestrian fatalities:

1) Revise criminal code to make it manslaughter if you kill a pedestrian in a crosswalk and actually prosecute it
2) Daylight every single intersection in the city with bollards- make it so the last one or two parking spaces are taken away and are open to improve nightlines
3) Lobby the federal government to require things like side flaps and better nightlines in vehicles (this is already being done by several advocacy groups)
4) Increase enforcement of things like speeding, running redlights
5) Redesign roads to naturally slow down drivers- bulbouts, speed bumps, chicanes etc

None of these are quick fixes but if people keep lobbying local and federal officials, only voting for council members with records of introducing safe streets legislation etc then they can gradually change.

I have a very hard time with automatic arrest/penalties, it could devastate two people's life. My DH ran out into the street at 9/10 when he was playing with friends and the neighbor hit him. She was only going 10-15MPH and nearly had a heart attack. He was fine, but it was 100% his fault.

Yes, killing someone is obviously a severe extreme, but if he had been at a different angle, or she hadn't braked soon enough, it might have had a different outcome.

I posted yesterday (which was deleted) that pedestrians do not have a right of way in a crosswalk when a car is already in the middle of the intersection. If a child or adult darted out in front off me in the crosswalk, I don't believe the motorist should be deemed automatically at fault.

I also said yesterday that drivers are crazy. I live on a corner and people (incl my neighbors) rarely stop. Many don't even brake.

Was he in a crosswalk? You bolded language about making it manslaughter to kill someone in a crosswalk. If so, then no, it would not have been your husband's fault if he had been killed (even if he wasn't in a crosswalk it wouldn't have been either- it would have been the fault of 100 years of auto lobbying that puts the convenience of drivers over the lives of pedestrians).

Also, seriously gross to say that a ten year old would be at fault for running and playing with his kids and getting killed. There are many people that made decisions that would have led to that that could be blamed before a ten year old.

So, whose "fault" is it that his neighbor hit him? Is it hers because she have been walking to the grocery store? Or, is it a "no fault" accident, which people have said upthread?

What decision did she and "many other people" make that caused him to go up on his hood? Should he have blamed her for the past 50 years?

I think this kind of reasoning just makes @sshole drivers double down and makes the government less likely to listen to people who want better safety measures. Which is sad.

What reasoning makes drivers and governments double down? The fault does not lie with the ten year old- I think that is pretty clear.

If I point out that road design, car design, lobbying by the car industry, and unsafe driving are the causes of a child being hit by a driver and NOT "100%" the fault of the child, why on EARTH would that make the government less likely to listed to people who want better safety measures? And yes, if you are a driver who doubles down and says it is the fault of the child, you are an @sshole. But you already before, maybe now you are just a double @sshole?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

So, my question that she should have walked to the grocery store is affirmative for you? She shouldn't have driven through the neighborhood because children live there?

I mean, it does seem kind of obvious that if she had walked rather than driven to the grocery store, she wouldn't have almost hit the child while she was driving? That doesn't make it her fault for having driven. However, we'd all be safer on the streets if it were easier for more people to walk rather than drive to the grocery store.

I agree that would be a dream to walk to an affordable, well-stocked grocery store.

But, the fault thing still is a bit nebulous. Another anecdote: My dad's BFF's life was ruined when he killed two pedestrians who stepped off a median to jay walk in front of him. He went into a depression, stopped talking to anyone and my dad never saw him again. He clearly was traumatized, but it was determined by all witnesses that it was not his fault. That's why I initially questioned that everyone who killed a pedestrian should be sentenced. I'm not sure it would have beneficial for anyone (including taxpayers) to have him in jail. But, clearly most people on this thread disagree and believe he is a monster.

Witnesses don’t determine anything. If anything, they are consistently unreliable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

So, my question that she should have walked to the grocery store is affirmative for you? She shouldn't have driven through the neighborhood because children live there?

I mean, it does seem kind of obvious that if she had walked rather than driven to the grocery store, she wouldn't have almost hit the child while she was driving? That doesn't make it her fault for having driven. However, we'd all be safer on the streets if it were easier for more people to walk rather than drive to the grocery store.

I agree that would be a dream to walk to an affordable, well-stocked grocery store.

But, the fault thing still is a bit nebulous. Another anecdote: My dad's BFF's life was ruined when he killed two pedestrians who stepped off a median to jay walk in front of him. He went into a depression, stopped talking to anyone and my dad never saw him again. He clearly was traumatized, but it was determined by all witnesses that it was not his fault. That's why I initially questioned that everyone who killed a pedestrian should be sentenced. I'm not sure it would have beneficial for anyone (including taxpayers) to have him in jail. But, clearly most people on this thread disagree and believe he is a monster.

I think it's pretty clear that for a lot of people, killing someone while driving is deeply traumatic. Although not for everyone, because some people who killed someone while driving continue to drive dangerously.

Also, I doubt that locking up after the fact is very effective for preventing other people from doing it.

Did you know that "jaywalk" is a pejorative invented by the auto industry to shift the blame from drivers to pedestrians? It's true. And it worked, and here we are.

What word would you prefer to describe “crossing in an area not designated for pedestrian crossing”?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

So, my question that she should have walked to the grocery store is affirmative for you? She shouldn't have driven through the neighborhood because children live there?

I mean, it does seem kind of obvious that if she had walked rather than driven to the grocery store, she wouldn't have almost hit the child while she was driving? That doesn't make it her fault for having driven. However, we'd all be safer on the streets if it were easier for more people to walk rather than drive to the grocery store.

I agree that would be a dream to walk to an affordable, well-stocked grocery store.

But, the fault thing still is a bit nebulous. Another anecdote: My dad's BFF's life was ruined when he killed two pedestrians who stepped off a median to jay walk in front of him. He went into a depression, stopped talking to anyone and my dad never saw him again. He clearly was traumatized, but it was determined by all witnesses that it was not his fault. That's why I initially questioned that everyone who killed a pedestrian should be sentenced. I'm not sure it would have beneficial for anyone (including taxpayers) to have him in jail. But, clearly most people on this thread disagree and believe he is a monster.

I think it's pretty clear that for a lot of people, killing someone while driving is deeply traumatic. Although not for everyone, because some people who killed someone while driving continue to drive dangerously.

Also, I doubt that locking up after the fact is very effective for preventing other people from doing it.

Did you know that "jaywalk" is a pejorative invented by the auto industry to shift the blame from drivers to pedestrians? It's true. And it worked, and here we are.

I am one of the people advocating manslaughter charges for killing a pedestrian and have read through this thread and don't think "most people" think that someone hitting someone walking from a median is automatically a monster. I don't know the circumstances and obviously if he was drunk or speeding or not paying attention or didn't have his lights on then that would tip my opinion. But I think that the road should have been better if pedestrians were killed there. Why were they crossing there? If they hadn't crossed there would they have had to walk half a mile there and back to the next crosswalk? Even if they had walked to the crosswalk would the crosswalk have been safe?

Ultimately I care less about the person who killed someone than the people who were killed though. And no, I don't think that feeling guilty is an appropriate punishment for manslaughter.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I think it's pretty clear that for a lot of people, killing someone while driving is deeply traumatic. Although not for everyone, because some people who killed someone while driving continue to drive dangerously.

Also, I doubt that locking up after the fact is very effective for preventing other people from doing it.

Did you know that "jaywalk" is a pejorative invented by the auto industry to shift the blame from drivers to pedestrians? It's true. And it worked, and here we are.

What word would you prefer to describe “crossing in an area not designated for pedestrian crossing”?

For crossing on foot, there are 3 kinds of areas on roads:

1. Places where pedestrians have the right-of-way
2. Places where drivers have the right-of-way
3. Places where pedestrians are not allowed to cross

There are not a lot of places where pedestrians are not allowed to cross.

Of course, before the auto industry invented "jaywalking", pedestrians had the right-of-way everywhere on the road.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone know what actually happened?

It seems like the dad shouldn't have let a small child bike across the crosswalk alone. But is that what happened?

The driver hit the child in a crosswalk and killed her. That's what happened.

Did she dart out on her bike or was she watching for traffic? Where was the dad? The the truck stop at the stop sign?

She was five. There are no circumstances where it's acceptable for a five-year-old to be killed by a driver. Instead of asking whom to blame, please ask how to prevent this from happening to others. What can we do to make streets that are safe for five-year-olds?

There is nothing you can do to prevent this from happening again, ok. It is absolutely tragic and it's horrible, but pedestrian deaths are a fact of life.

Driving is not taken seriously in this country. People just don't pay attention. But I don't think you or anyone else can change those things.

Here are five things off the top of my head that can be done to reduce pedestrian fatalities:

1) Revise criminal code to make it manslaughter if you kill a pedestrian in a crosswalk and actually prosecute it
2) Daylight every single intersection in the city with bollards- make it so the last one or two parking spaces are taken away and are open to improve nightlines
3) Lobby the federal government to require things like side flaps and better nightlines in vehicles (this is already being done by several advocacy groups)
4) Increase enforcement of things like speeding, running redlights
5) Redesign roads to naturally slow down drivers- bulbouts, speed bumps, chicanes etc

None of these are quick fixes but if people keep lobbying local and federal officials, only voting for council members with records of introducing safe streets legislation etc then they can gradually change.

I have a very hard time with automatic arrest/penalties, it could devastate two people's life. My DH ran out into the street at 9/10 when he was playing with friends and the neighbor hit him. She was only going 10-15MPH and nearly had a heart attack. He was fine, but it was 100% his fault.

Yes, killing someone is obviously a severe extreme, but if he had been at a different angle, or she hadn't braked soon enough, it might have had a different outcome.

I posted yesterday (which was deleted) that pedestrians do not have a right of way in a crosswalk when a car is already in the middle of the intersection. If a child or adult darted out in front off me in the crosswalk, I don't believe the motorist should be deemed automatically at fault.

I also said yesterday that drivers are crazy. I live on a corner and people (incl my neighbors) rarely stop. Many don't even brake.

Was he in a crosswalk? You bolded language about making it manslaughter to kill someone in a crosswalk. If so, then no, it would not have been your husband's fault if he had been killed (even if he wasn't in a crosswalk it wouldn't have been either- it would have been the fault of 100 years of auto lobbying that puts the convenience of drivers over the lives of pedestrians).

Also, seriously gross to say that a ten year old would be at fault for running and playing with his kids and getting killed. There are many people that made decisions that would have led to that that could be blamed before a ten year old.

So, whose "fault" is it that his neighbor hit him? Is it hers because she have been walking to the grocery store? Or, is it a "no fault" accident, which people have said upthread?

What decision did she and "many other people" make that caused him to go up on his hood? Should he have blamed her for the past 50 years?

I think this kind of reasoning just makes @sshole drivers double down and makes the government less likely to listen to people who want better safety measures. Which is sad.

What reasoning makes drivers and governments double down? The fault does not lie with the ten year old- I think that is pretty clear.

If I point out that road design, car design, lobbying by the car industry, and unsafe driving are the causes of a child being hit by a driver and NOT "100%" the fault of the child, why on EARTH would that make the government less likely to listed to people who want better safety measures? And yes, if you are a driver who doubles down and says it is the fault of the child, you are an @sshole. But you already before, maybe now you are just a double @sshole?

I guess I'm just a giant @sshole for holding the opinion (that fault does not always solely lie with the driver). Though I'm not one on the road.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

So, my question that she should have walked to the grocery store is affirmative for you? She shouldn't have driven through the neighborhood because children live there?

I mean, it does seem kind of obvious that if she had walked rather than driven to the grocery store, she wouldn't have almost hit the child while she was driving? That doesn't make it her fault for having driven. However, we'd all be safer on the streets if it were easier for more people to walk rather than drive to the grocery store.

I agree that would be a dream to walk to an affordable, well-stocked grocery store.

But, the fault thing still is a bit nebulous. Another anecdote: My dad's BFF's life was ruined when he killed two pedestrians who stepped off a median to jay walk in front of him. He went into a depression, stopped talking to anyone and my dad never saw him again. He clearly was traumatized, but it was determined by all witnesses that it was not his fault. That's why I initially questioned that everyone who killed a pedestrian should be sentenced. I'm not sure it would have beneficial for anyone (including taxpayers) to have him in jail. But, clearly most people on this thread disagree and believe he is a monster.

I think it's pretty clear that for a lot of people, killing someone while driving is deeply traumatic. Although not for everyone, because some people who killed someone while driving continue to drive dangerously.

Also, I doubt that locking up after the fact is very effective for preventing other people from doing it.

Did you know that "jaywalk" is a pejorative invented by the auto industry to shift the blame from drivers to pedestrians? It's true. And it worked, and here we are.

I am one of the people advocating manslaughter charges for killing a pedestrian and have read through this thread and don't think "most people" think that someone hitting someone walking from a median is automatically a monster. I don't know the circumstances and obviously if he was drunk or speeding or not paying attention or didn't have his lights on then that would tip my opinion. But I think that the road should have been better if pedestrians were killed there. Why were they crossing there? If they hadn't crossed there would they have had to walk half a mile there and back to the next crosswalk? Even if they had walked to the crosswalk would the crosswalk have been safe?

Ultimately I care less about the person who killed someone than the people who were killed though. And no, I don't think that feeling guilty is an appropriate punishment for manslaughter.

So, not a monster, but a criminal. That seems like semantics.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

So, my question that she should have walked to the grocery store is affirmative for you? She shouldn't have driven through the neighborhood because children live there?

I mean, it does seem kind of obvious that if she had walked rather than driven to the grocery store, she wouldn't have almost hit the child while she was driving? That doesn't make it her fault for having driven. However, we'd all be safer on the streets if it were easier for more people to walk rather than drive to the grocery store.

I agree that would be a dream to walk to an affordable, well-stocked grocery store.

But, the fault thing still is a bit nebulous. Another anecdote: My dad's BFF's life was ruined when he killed two pedestrians who stepped off a median to jay walk in front of him. He went into a depression, stopped talking to anyone and my dad never saw him again. He clearly was traumatized, but it was determined by all witnesses that it was not his fault. That's why I initially questioned that everyone who killed a pedestrian should be sentenced. I'm not sure it would have beneficial for anyone (including taxpayers) to have him in jail. But, clearly most people on this thread disagree and believe he is a monster.

Witnesses don’t determine anything. If anything, they are consistently unreliable.

So police should no longer question witnesses for any incident or crime?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone know what actually happened?

It seems like the dad shouldn't have let a small child bike across the crosswalk alone. But is that what happened?

The driver hit the child in a crosswalk and killed her. That's what happened.

Did she dart out on her bike or was she watching for traffic? Where was the dad? The the truck stop at the stop sign?

She was five. There are no circumstances where it's acceptable for a five-year-old to be killed by a driver. Instead of asking whom to blame, please ask how to prevent this from happening to others. What can we do to make streets that are safe for five-year-olds?

I’m asking because I am trying to figure out how we best protect our kids. If that means walking beside them while they are on their bike in a crosswalk then that is what it takes. I’m not sure why putting your head in the sand about this seems to be so important to you. Do you lock your doors? If so, then you understand that while we all want safe homes, we know that sometimes we have to take precautions based on where we live.

How does one individual person, in their daily life, best protect their kids? By raising them in an urban place where you can primarily get around by walking, biking, or transit.
If that one individual person isn't doing that, what should they do? Try to be eternally vigilant, and hope random misfortune doesn't strike them.
How do WE best protect our kids? By insisting that our elected representatives support and fund policies that will actually make streets safe for five-year-olds.

Nobody is saying there isn’t change needed. But understanding what happened helps people know what they can do, in that moment, to protect their child can help another family. Sorry you don’t seem to care about that.

Well, let's see. Zyaire was holding his mother's hand in a crosswalk. Allie was riding in a crosswalk with her father. Haekal was waiting at a school bus stop with his father and baby brother. 2 girls were walking to school with their father on Walk to School Day (they weren't killed). So you tell me.

We all like to think that if something bad happened to somebody, it's because they did something wrong, and we'll be safe as long as we don't do anything wrong. Unfortunately, it's not true.

I'm not trying to assign blame. I am asking what happened to Allie, which still hasn't been answered. If you don't know, that's fine.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone know what actually happened?

It seems like the dad shouldn't have let a small child bike across the crosswalk alone. But is that what happened?

The driver hit the child in a crosswalk and killed her. That's what happened.

Did she dart out on her bike or was she watching for traffic? Where was the dad? The the truck stop at the stop sign?

She was five. There are no circumstances where it's acceptable for a five-year-old to be killed by a driver. Instead of asking whom to blame, please ask how to prevent this from happening to others. What can we do to make streets that are safe for five-year-olds?

I’m asking because I am trying to figure out how we best protect our kids. If that means walking beside them while they are on their bike in a crosswalk then that is what it takes. I’m not sure why putting your head in the sand about this seems to be so important to you. Do you lock your doors? If so, then you understand that while we all want safe homes, we know that sometimes we have to take precautions based on where we live.

How does one individual person, in their daily life, best protect their kids? By raising them in an urban place where you can primarily get around by walking, biking, or transit.
If that one individual person isn't doing that, what should they do? Try to be eternally vigilant, and hope random misfortune doesn't strike them.
How do WE best protect our kids? By insisting that our elected representatives support and fund policies that will actually make streets safe for five-year-olds.

Nobody is saying there isn’t change needed. But understanding what happened helps people know what they can do, in that moment, to protect their child can help another family. Sorry you don’t seem to care about that.

Well, let's see. Zyaire was holding his mother's hand in a crosswalk. Allie was riding in a crosswalk with her father. Haekal was waiting at a school bus stop with his father and baby brother. 2 girls were walking to school with their father on Walk to School Day (they weren't killed). So you tell me.

We all like to think that if something bad happened to somebody, it's because they did something wrong, and we'll be safe as long as we don't do anything wrong. Unfortunately, it's not true.

I'm not trying to assign blame. I am asking what happened to Allie, which still hasn't been answered. If you don't know, that's fine.

What happened to Allie is that she was a five-year-old riding her bicycle in a marked crosswalk, and someone driving a van hit her and killed her. That's really all you need to know. Everything else is just trying to reassure yourself that this wouldn't happen to you or your children.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone know what actually happened?

It seems like the dad shouldn't have let a small child bike across the crosswalk alone. But is that what happened?

The driver hit the child in a crosswalk and killed her. That's what happened.

Did she dart out on her bike or was she watching for traffic? Where was the dad? The the truck stop at the stop sign?

She was five. There are no circumstances where it's acceptable for a five-year-old to be killed by a driver. Instead of asking whom to blame, please ask how to prevent this from happening to others. What can we do to make streets that are safe for five-year-olds?

I’m asking because I am trying to figure out how we best protect our kids. If that means walking beside them while they are on their bike in a crosswalk then that is what it takes. I’m not sure why putting your head in the sand about this seems to be so important to you. Do you lock your doors? If so, then you understand that while we all want safe homes, we know that sometimes we have to take precautions based on where we live.

How does one individual person, in their daily life, best protect their kids? By raising them in an urban place where you can primarily get around by walking, biking, or transit.
If that one individual person isn't doing that, what should they do? Try to be eternally vigilant, and hope random misfortune doesn't strike them.
How do WE best protect our kids? By insisting that our elected representatives support and fund policies that will actually make streets safe for five-year-olds.

Nobody is saying there isn’t change needed. But understanding what happened helps people know what they can do, in that moment, to protect their child can help another family. Sorry you don’t seem to care about that.

Well, let's see. Zyaire was holding his mother's hand in a crosswalk. Allie was riding in a crosswalk with her father. Haekal was waiting at a school bus stop with his father and baby brother. 2 girls were walking to school with their father on Walk to School Day (they weren't killed). So you tell me.

We all like to think that if something bad happened to somebody, it's because they did something wrong, and we'll be safe as long as we don't do anything wrong. Unfortunately, it's not true.

I'm not trying to assign blame. I am asking what happened to Allie, which still hasn't been answered. If you don't know, that's fine.

What happened to Allie is that she was a five-year-old riding her bicycle in a marked crosswalk, and someone driving a van hit her and killed her. That's really all you need to know. Everything else is just trying to reassure yourself that this wouldn't happen to you or your children.

And what is wrong with that? Isn’t that the point of the safety measures also, to make sure that this doesn’t happen to anyone else? You keep contradicting yourself.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone know what actually happened?

It seems like the dad shouldn't have let a small child bike across the crosswalk alone. But is that what happened?

The driver hit the child in a crosswalk and killed her. That's what happened.

Did she dart out on her bike or was she watching for traffic? Where was the dad? The the truck stop at the stop sign?

She was five. There are no circumstances where it's acceptable for a five-year-old to be killed by a driver. Instead of asking whom to blame, please ask how to prevent this from happening to others. What can we do to make streets that are safe for five-year-olds?

I’m asking because I am trying to figure out how we best protect our kids. If that means walking beside them while they are on their bike in a crosswalk then that is what it takes. I’m not sure why putting your head in the sand about this seems to be so important to you. Do you lock your doors? If so, then you understand that while we all want safe homes, we know that sometimes we have to take precautions based on where we live.

How does one individual person, in their daily life, best protect their kids? By raising them in an urban place where you can primarily get around by walking, biking, or transit.
If that one individual person isn't doing that, what should they do? Try to be eternally vigilant, and hope random misfortune doesn't strike them.
How do WE best protect our kids? By insisting that our elected representatives support and fund policies that will actually make streets safe for five-year-olds.

Nobody is saying there isn’t change needed. But understanding what happened helps people know what they can do, in that moment, to protect their child can help another family. Sorry you don’t seem to care about that.

Well, let's see. Zyaire was holding his mother's hand in a crosswalk. Allie was riding in a crosswalk with her father. Haekal was waiting at a school bus stop with his father and baby brother. 2 girls were walking to school with their father on Walk to School Day (they weren't killed). So you tell me.

We all like to think that if something bad happened to somebody, it's because they did something wrong, and we'll be safe as long as we don't do anything wrong. Unfortunately, it's not true.

I'm not trying to assign blame. I am asking what happened to Allie, which still hasn't been answered. If you don't know, that's fine.

What happened to Allie is that she was a five-year-old riding her bicycle in a marked crosswalk, and someone driving a van hit her and killed her. That's really all you need to know. Everything else is just trying to reassure yourself that this wouldn't happen to you or your children.

And what is wrong with that? Isn’t that the point of the safety measures also, to make sure that this doesn’t happen to anyone else? You keep contradicting yourself.

It's magical thinking. If you want to engage in magical thinking, go for it. I, personally, support effective safety measures.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone know what actually happened?

It seems like the dad shouldn't have let a small child bike across the crosswalk alone. But is that what happened?

The driver hit the child in a crosswalk and killed her. That's what happened.

Did she dart out on her bike or was she watching for traffic? Where was the dad? The the truck stop at the stop sign?

She was five. There are no circumstances where it's acceptable for a five-year-old to be killed by a driver. Instead of asking whom to blame, please ask how to prevent this from happening to others. What can we do to make streets that are safe for five-year-olds?

I’m asking because I am trying to figure out how we best protect our kids. If that means walking beside them while they are on their bike in a crosswalk then that is what it takes. I’m not sure why putting your head in the sand about this seems to be so important to you. Do you lock your doors? If so, then you understand that while we all want safe homes, we know that sometimes we have to take precautions based on where we live.

How does one individual person, in their daily life, best protect their kids? By raising them in an urban place where you can primarily get around by walking, biking, or transit.
If that one individual person isn't doing that, what should they do? Try to be eternally vigilant, and hope random misfortune doesn't strike them.
How do WE best protect our kids? By insisting that our elected representatives support and fund policies that will actually make streets safe for five-year-olds.

Nobody is saying there isn’t change needed. But understanding what happened helps people know what they can do, in that moment, to protect their child can help another family. Sorry you don’t seem to care about that.

Well, let's see. Zyaire was holding his mother's hand in a crosswalk. Allie was riding in a crosswalk with her father. Haekal was waiting at a school bus stop with his father and baby brother. 2 girls were walking to school with their father on Walk to School Day (they weren't killed). So you tell me.

We all like to think that if something bad happened to somebody, it's because they did something wrong, and we'll be safe as long as we don't do anything wrong. Unfortunately, it's not true.

I'm not trying to assign blame. I am asking what happened to Allie, which still hasn't been answered. If you don't know, that's fine.

What happened to Allie is that she was a five-year-old riding her bicycle in a marked crosswalk, and someone driving a van hit her and killed her. That's really all you need to know. Everything else is just trying to reassure yourself that this wouldn't happen to you or your children.

As clearly stated in DC’s pedestrian traffic regulations, “Pedestrians may cross the roadway within a marked or unmarked crosswalk. However, no pedestrian shall suddenly leave a curb, safety platform, safety zone, loading platform or other designated place of safety and walk or turn into the path of a vehicle which is so close that it is impossible for the driver to yield.”

So if Allie did indeed dart out in front of the car, then yes, there is more we need to know. It’s just not as simple as you want it to be.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

As clearly stated in DC’s pedestrian traffic regulations, “Pedestrians may cross the roadway within a marked or unmarked crosswalk. However, no pedestrian shall suddenly leave a curb, safety platform, safety zone, loading platform or other designated place of safety and walk or turn into the path of a vehicle which is so close that it is impossible for the driver to yield.”

So if Allie did indeed dart out in front of the car, then yes, there is more we need to know. It’s just not as simple as you want it to be.

There is more you want to know, if you're trying to figure out whether you can blame a five-year-old for being killed by an adult licensed driver in a crosswalk at an intersection in her neighborhood.

If you're trying to figure out how to prevent this from happening, then no, there is not more "we" "need" to know. "Parents should hold on to their children at all times" and "Parents should not allow five-year-olds to ride bikes" are not effective prevention strategies, they're expressions of your opinions.