The death of Allie Hart and the need for safer streets

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

As clearly stated in DC’s pedestrian traffic regulations, “Pedestrians may cross the roadway within a marked or unmarked crosswalk. However, no pedestrian shall suddenly leave a curb, safety platform, safety zone, loading platform or other designated place of safety and walk or turn into the path of a vehicle which is so close that it is impossible for the driver to yield.”

So if Allie did indeed dart out in front of the car, then yes, there is more we need to know. It’s just not as simple as you want it to be.

There is more you want to know, if you're trying to figure out whether you can blame a five-year-old for being killed by an adult licensed driver in a crosswalk at an intersection in her neighborhood.

If you're trying to figure out how to prevent this from happening, then no, there is not more "we" "need" to know. "Parents should hold on to their children at all times" and "Parents should not allow five-year-olds to ride bikes" are not effective prevention strategies, they're expressions of your opinions.

A child darting out in front of a car that cannot safely stop in time is 100% relevant. It’s not an opinion - it’s fact.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

As clearly stated in DC’s pedestrian traffic regulations, “Pedestrians may cross the roadway within a marked or unmarked crosswalk. However, no pedestrian shall suddenly leave a curb, safety platform, safety zone, loading platform or other designated place of safety and walk or turn into the path of a vehicle which is so close that it is impossible for the driver to yield.”

So if Allie did indeed dart out in front of the car, then yes, there is more we need to know. It’s just not as simple as you want it to be.

There is more you want to know, if you're trying to figure out whether you can blame a five-year-old for being killed by an adult licensed driver in a crosswalk at an intersection in her neighborhood.

If you're trying to figure out how to prevent this from happening, then no, there is not more "we" "need" to know. "Parents should hold on to their children at all times" and "Parents should not allow five-year-olds to ride bikes" are not effective prevention strategies, they're expressions of your opinions.

A child darting out in front of a car that cannot safely stop in time is 100% relevant. It’s not an opinion - it’s fact.

Relevant to what, though?

If you want to prevent this from happening again, here's what you focus on: making sure that drivers can safely stop in time, before hitting and killing children.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

As clearly stated in DC’s pedestrian traffic regulations, “Pedestrians may cross the roadway within a marked or unmarked crosswalk. However, no pedestrian shall suddenly leave a curb, safety platform, safety zone, loading platform or other designated place of safety and walk or turn into the path of a vehicle which is so close that it is impossible for the driver to yield.”

So if Allie did indeed dart out in front of the car, then yes, there is more we need to know. It’s just not as simple as you want it to be.

There is more you want to know, if you're trying to figure out whether you can blame a five-year-old for being killed by an adult licensed driver in a crosswalk at an intersection in her neighborhood.

If you're trying to figure out how to prevent this from happening, then no, there is not more "we" "need" to know. "Parents should hold on to their children at all times" and "Parents should not allow five-year-olds to ride bikes" are not effective prevention strategies, they're expressions of your opinions.

A child darting out in front of a car that cannot safely stop in time is 100% relevant. It’s not an opinion - it’s fact.

It couldn’t safely stop in time because it blew through the stop sign and was going too fast through the intersection.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone know what actually happened?

It seems like the dad shouldn't have let a small child bike across the crosswalk alone. But is that what happened?

The driver hit the child in a crosswalk and killed her. That's what happened.

Did she dart out on her bike or was she watching for traffic? Where was the dad? The the truck stop at the stop sign?

She was five. There are no circumstances where it's acceptable for a five-year-old to be killed by a driver. Instead of asking whom to blame, please ask how to prevent this from happening to others. What can we do to make streets that are safe for five-year-olds?

I’m asking because I am trying to figure out how we best protect our kids. If that means walking beside them while they are on their bike in a crosswalk then that is what it takes. I’m not sure why putting your head in the sand about this seems to be so important to you. Do you lock your doors? If so, then you understand that while we all want safe homes, we know that sometimes we have to take precautions based on where we live.

How does one individual person, in their daily life, best protect their kids? By raising them in an urban place where you can primarily get around by walking, biking, or transit.
If that one individual person isn't doing that, what should they do? Try to be eternally vigilant, and hope random misfortune doesn't strike them.
How do WE best protect our kids? By insisting that our elected representatives support and fund policies that will actually make streets safe for five-year-olds.

Nobody is saying there isn’t change needed. But understanding what happened helps people know what they can do, in that moment, to protect their child can help another family. Sorry you don’t seem to care about that.

Well, let's see. Zyaire was holding his mother's hand in a crosswalk. Allie was riding in a crosswalk with her father. Haekal was waiting at a school bus stop with his father and baby brother. 2 girls were walking to school with their father on Walk to School Day (they weren't killed). So you tell me.

We all like to think that if something bad happened to somebody, it's because they did something wrong, and we'll be safe as long as we don't do anything wrong. Unfortunately, it's not true.

I'm not trying to assign blame. I am asking what happened to Allie, which still hasn't been answered. If you don't know, that's fine.

What happened to Allie is that she was a five-year-old riding her bicycle in a marked crosswalk, and someone driving a van hit her and killed her. That's really all you need to know. Everything else is just trying to reassure yourself that this wouldn't happen to you or your children.

Don’t worry, I am actually quite concerned about a similar thing happening to my child which is why I would like to know what happened to Allie. My heart breaks for her family. I advocate for safer streets in my neighborhood by attending council meetings, emailing city officials and even reminding drivers to stop at stop signs when I see them not stopping (which is met from a range of “sorry” and to me being yelled at). The issue is that any change is slow. So in the interim I want to do all that I can to prevent this from happening to my child in whatever way I can.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

As clearly stated in DC’s pedestrian traffic regulations, “Pedestrians may cross the roadway within a marked or unmarked crosswalk. However, no pedestrian shall suddenly leave a curb, safety platform, safety zone, loading platform or other designated place of safety and walk or turn into the path of a vehicle which is so close that it is impossible for the driver to yield.”

So if Allie did indeed dart out in front of the car, then yes, there is more we need to know. It’s just not as simple as you want it to be.

There is more you want to know, if you're trying to figure out whether you can blame a five-year-old for being killed by an adult licensed driver in a crosswalk at an intersection in her neighborhood.

If you're trying to figure out how to prevent this from happening, then no, there is not more "we" "need" to know. "Parents should hold on to their children at all times" and "Parents should not allow five-year-olds to ride bikes" are not effective prevention strategies, they're expressions of your opinions.

A child darting out in front of a car that cannot safely stop in time is 100% relevant. It’s not an opinion - it’s fact.

It couldn’t safely stop in time because it blew through the stop sign and was going too fast through the intersection.

Do we know that that’s what happened?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

As clearly stated in DC’s pedestrian traffic regulations, “Pedestrians may cross the roadway within a marked or unmarked crosswalk. However, no pedestrian shall suddenly leave a curb, safety platform, safety zone, loading platform or other designated place of safety and walk or turn into the path of a vehicle which is so close that it is impossible for the driver to yield.”

So if Allie did indeed dart out in front of the car, then yes, there is more we need to know. It’s just not as simple as you want it to be.

There is more you want to know, if you're trying to figure out whether you can blame a five-year-old for being killed by an adult licensed driver in a crosswalk at an intersection in her neighborhood.

If you're trying to figure out how to prevent this from happening, then no, there is not more "we" "need" to know. "Parents should hold on to their children at all times" and "Parents should not allow five-year-olds to ride bikes" are not effective prevention strategies, they're expressions of your opinions.

A child darting out in front of a car that cannot safely stop in time is 100% relevant. It’s not an opinion - it’s fact.

Relevant to what, though?

If you want to prevent this from happening again, here's what you focus on: making sure that drivers can safely stop in time, before hitting and killing children.

It is astounding to me that you can’t accept that there will be times that people cannot stop safely and in time, no matter what safety measures are in place. That’s why there called accidents and that’s why there are both rules for cars and rules for pedestrians.

Let’s say the driver had a medical emergency behind the wheel and passed out. And that Allie then darted out in front of that essentially driverless car. What then? How could that accident have been prevented?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

As clearly stated in DC’s pedestrian traffic regulations, “Pedestrians may cross the roadway within a marked or unmarked crosswalk. However, no pedestrian shall suddenly leave a curb, safety platform, safety zone, loading platform or other designated place of safety and walk or turn into the path of a vehicle which is so close that it is impossible for the driver to yield.”

So if Allie did indeed dart out in front of the car, then yes, there is more we need to know. It’s just not as simple as you want it to be.

There is more you want to know, if you're trying to figure out whether you can blame a five-year-old for being killed by an adult licensed driver in a crosswalk at an intersection in her neighborhood.

If you're trying to figure out how to prevent this from happening, then no, there is not more "we" "need" to know. "Parents should hold on to their children at all times" and "Parents should not allow five-year-olds to ride bikes" are not effective prevention strategies, they're expressions of your opinions.

A child darting out in front of a car that cannot safely stop in time is 100% relevant. It’s not an opinion - it’s fact.

Relevant to what, though?

If you want to prevent this from happening again, here's what you focus on: making sure that drivers can safely stop in time, before hitting and killing children.

It is astounding to me that you can’t accept that there will be times that people cannot stop safely and in time, no matter what safety measures are in place. That’s why there called accidents and that’s why there are both rules for cars and rules for pedestrians.

Let’s say the driver had a medical emergency behind the wheel and passed out. And that Allie then darted out in front of that essentially driverless car. What then? How could that accident have been prevented?

The US has the highest road death rate, by far, among other wealthy countries. Maybe drivers in other wealthy countries don't have medical emergencies. Or maybe those other countries are doing things to prevent road deaths that we could also do, if we chose to, instead of trying to invent ways to blame five-year-olds.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

As clearly stated in DC’s pedestrian traffic regulations, “Pedestrians may cross the roadway within a marked or unmarked crosswalk. However, no pedestrian shall suddenly leave a curb, safety platform, safety zone, loading platform or other designated place of safety and walk or turn into the path of a vehicle which is so close that it is impossible for the driver to yield.”

So if Allie did indeed dart out in front of the car, then yes, there is more we need to know. It’s just not as simple as you want it to be.

There is more you want to know, if you're trying to figure out whether you can blame a five-year-old for being killed by an adult licensed driver in a crosswalk at an intersection in her neighborhood.

If you're trying to figure out how to prevent this from happening, then no, there is not more "we" "need" to know. "Parents should hold on to their children at all times" and "Parents should not allow five-year-olds to ride bikes" are not effective prevention strategies, they're expressions of your opinions.

A child darting out in front of a car that cannot safely stop in time is 100% relevant. It’s not an opinion - it’s fact.

It couldn’t safely stop in time because it blew through the stop sign and was going too fast through the intersection.

Do we know that that’s what happened?

If the vehicle had come to a full stop and then proceeded safely through the intersection, it would not have killed her.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

As clearly stated in DC’s pedestrian traffic regulations, “Pedestrians may cross the roadway within a marked or unmarked crosswalk. However, no pedestrian shall suddenly leave a curb, safety platform, safety zone, loading platform or other designated place of safety and walk or turn into the path of a vehicle which is so close that it is impossible for the driver to yield.”

So if Allie did indeed dart out in front of the car, then yes, there is more we need to know. It’s just not as simple as you want it to be.

There is more you want to know, if you're trying to figure out whether you can blame a five-year-old for being killed by an adult licensed driver in a crosswalk at an intersection in her neighborhood.

If you're trying to figure out how to prevent this from happening, then no, there is not more "we" "need" to know. "Parents should hold on to their children at all times" and "Parents should not allow five-year-olds to ride bikes" are not effective prevention strategies, they're expressions of your opinions.

A child darting out in front of a car that cannot safely stop in time is 100% relevant. It’s not an opinion - it’s fact.

Relevant to what, though?

If you want to prevent this from happening again, here's what you focus on: making sure that drivers can safely stop in time, before hitting and killing children.

It is astounding to me that you can’t accept that there will be times that people cannot stop safely and in time, no matter what safety measures are in place. That’s why there called accidents and that’s why there are both rules for cars and rules for pedestrians.

Let’s say the driver had a medical emergency behind the wheel and passed out. And that Allie then darted out in front of that essentially driverless car. What then? How could that accident have been prevented?

The US has the highest road death rate, by far, among other wealthy countries. Maybe drivers in other wealthy countries don't have medical emergencies. Or maybe those other countries are doing things to prevent road deaths that we could also do, if we chose to, instead of trying to invent ways to blame five-year-olds.

I don’t understand why we can‘t do things to improve road safety AND supervise our kids better on the off chance those road safety measures don’t work.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

As clearly stated in DC’s pedestrian traffic regulations, “Pedestrians may cross the roadway within a marked or unmarked crosswalk. However, no pedestrian shall suddenly leave a curb, safety platform, safety zone, loading platform or other designated place of safety and walk or turn into the path of a vehicle which is so close that it is impossible for the driver to yield.”

So if Allie did indeed dart out in front of the car, then yes, there is more we need to know. It’s just not as simple as you want it to be.

There is more you want to know, if you're trying to figure out whether you can blame a five-year-old for being killed by an adult licensed driver in a crosswalk at an intersection in her neighborhood.

If you're trying to figure out how to prevent this from happening, then no, there is not more "we" "need" to know. "Parents should hold on to their children at all times" and "Parents should not allow five-year-olds to ride bikes" are not effective prevention strategies, they're expressions of your opinions.

A child darting out in front of a car that cannot safely stop in time is 100% relevant. It’s not an opinion - it’s fact.

It couldn’t safely stop in time because it blew through the stop sign and was going too fast through the intersection.

Do we know that that’s what happened?

If the vehicle had come to a full stop and then proceeded safely through the intersection, it would not have killed her.

Seriously stop with this. If she was at the opposite side of the intersection where he stopped, and was hidden by parked cars and then darted out in front of him then yes, it is entirely possible he wouldn’t have had adequate time to stop.
If you need to be deliberately obtuse to get your point across, it’s not a very strong point.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

As clearly stated in DC’s pedestrian traffic regulations, “Pedestrians may cross the roadway within a marked or unmarked crosswalk. However, no pedestrian shall suddenly leave a curb, safety platform, safety zone, loading platform or other designated place of safety and walk or turn into the path of a vehicle which is so close that it is impossible for the driver to yield.”

So if Allie did indeed dart out in front of the car, then yes, there is more we need to know. It’s just not as simple as you want it to be.

There is more you want to know, if you're trying to figure out whether you can blame a five-year-old for being killed by an adult licensed driver in a crosswalk at an intersection in her neighborhood.

If you're trying to figure out how to prevent this from happening, then no, there is not more "we" "need" to know. "Parents should hold on to their children at all times" and "Parents should not allow five-year-olds to ride bikes" are not effective prevention strategies, they're expressions of your opinions.

A child darting out in front of a car that cannot safely stop in time is 100% relevant. It’s not an opinion - it’s fact.

Relevant to what, though?

If you want to prevent this from happening again, here's what you focus on: making sure that drivers can safely stop in time, before hitting and killing children.

It is astounding to me that you can’t accept that there will be times that people cannot stop safely and in time, no matter what safety measures are in place. That’s why there called accidents and that’s why there are both rules for cars and rules for pedestrians.

Let’s say the driver had a medical emergency behind the wheel and passed out. And that Allie then darted out in front of that essentially driverless car. What then? How could that accident have been prevented?

The US has the highest road death rate, by far, among other wealthy countries. Maybe drivers in other wealthy countries don't have medical emergencies. Or maybe those other countries are doing things to prevent road deaths that we could also do, if we chose to, instead of trying to invent ways to blame five-year-olds.

I don’t understand why we can‘t do things to improve road safety AND supervise our kids better on the off chance those road safety measures don’t work.

Has anybody said you shouldn't supervise your children? Supervise away.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

As clearly stated in DC’s pedestrian traffic regulations, “Pedestrians may cross the roadway within a marked or unmarked crosswalk. However, no pedestrian shall suddenly leave a curb, safety platform, safety zone, loading platform or other designated place of safety and walk or turn into the path of a vehicle which is so close that it is impossible for the driver to yield.”

So if Allie did indeed dart out in front of the car, then yes, there is more we need to know. It’s just not as simple as you want it to be.

There is more you want to know, if you're trying to figure out whether you can blame a five-year-old for being killed by an adult licensed driver in a crosswalk at an intersection in her neighborhood.

If you're trying to figure out how to prevent this from happening, then no, there is not more "we" "need" to know. "Parents should hold on to their children at all times" and "Parents should not allow five-year-olds to ride bikes" are not effective prevention strategies, they're expressions of your opinions.

A child darting out in front of a car that cannot safely stop in time is 100% relevant. It’s not an opinion - it’s fact.

Relevant to what, though?

If you want to prevent this from happening again, here's what you focus on: making sure that drivers can safely stop in time, before hitting and killing children.

It is astounding to me that you can’t accept that there will be times that people cannot stop safely and in time, no matter what safety measures are in place. That’s why there called accidents and that’s why there are both rules for cars and rules for pedestrians.

Let’s say the driver had a medical emergency behind the wheel and passed out. And that Allie then darted out in front of that essentially driverless car. What then? How could that accident have been prevented?

The US has the highest road death rate, by far, among other wealthy countries. Maybe drivers in other wealthy countries don't have medical emergencies. Or maybe those other countries are doing things to prevent road deaths that we could also do, if we chose to, instead of trying to invent ways to blame five-year-olds.

I don’t understand why we can‘t do things to improve road safety AND supervise our kids better on the off chance those road safety measures don’t work.

Has anybody said you shouldn't supervise your children? Supervise away.

There is one poster here that is basically saying it is always 100% the drivers fault - meaning unsupervised kids darting out into traffic is a-ok. I’m glad you agree that there is some parental responsibility in these situations.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

As clearly stated in DC’s pedestrian traffic regulations, “Pedestrians may cross the roadway within a marked or unmarked crosswalk. However, no pedestrian shall suddenly leave a curb, safety platform, safety zone, loading platform or other designated place of safety and walk or turn into the path of a vehicle which is so close that it is impossible for the driver to yield.”

So if Allie did indeed dart out in front of the car, then yes, there is more we need to know. It’s just not as simple as you want it to be.

There is more you want to know, if you're trying to figure out whether you can blame a five-year-old for being killed by an adult licensed driver in a crosswalk at an intersection in her neighborhood.

If you're trying to figure out how to prevent this from happening, then no, there is not more "we" "need" to know. "Parents should hold on to their children at all times" and "Parents should not allow five-year-olds to ride bikes" are not effective prevention strategies, they're expressions of your opinions.

A child darting out in front of a car that cannot safely stop in time is 100% relevant. It’s not an opinion - it’s fact.

It couldn’t safely stop in time because it blew through the stop sign and was going too fast through the intersection.

Do we know that that’s what happened?

If the vehicle had come to a full stop and then proceeded safely through the intersection, it would not have killed her.

Seriously stop with this. If she was at the opposite side of the intersection where he stopped, and was hidden by parked cars and then darted out in front of him then yes, it is entirely possible he wouldn’t have had adequate time to stop.
If you need to be deliberately obtuse to get your point across, it’s not a very strong point.

Let's take a look at your imaginary scenario. If there are parked cars hiding the crosswalk, then the solution is to "daylight" the intersection with no-parking zones. Those parked cars would be a safety hazard. We can make the intersection safer by removing the safety hazard. Also, if it's possible for the driver to reach a deadly speed between stopping at the stop sign at one crosswalk, and crossing the intersection to the other crosswalk, then the intersection is too big. That's a safety hazard too. We can make the intersection safer by turning the crosswalks on both sides into raised crosswalks (speed tables with crosswalks on top of them).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

As clearly stated in DC’s pedestrian traffic regulations, “Pedestrians may cross the roadway within a marked or unmarked crosswalk. However, no pedestrian shall suddenly leave a curb, safety platform, safety zone, loading platform or other designated place of safety and walk or turn into the path of a vehicle which is so close that it is impossible for the driver to yield.”

So if Allie did indeed dart out in front of the car, then yes, there is more we need to know. It’s just not as simple as you want it to be.

There is more you want to know, if you're trying to figure out whether you can blame a five-year-old for being killed by an adult licensed driver in a crosswalk at an intersection in her neighborhood.

If you're trying to figure out how to prevent this from happening, then no, there is not more "we" "need" to know. "Parents should hold on to their children at all times" and "Parents should not allow five-year-olds to ride bikes" are not effective prevention strategies, they're expressions of your opinions.

A child darting out in front of a car that cannot safely stop in time is 100% relevant. It’s not an opinion - it’s fact.

It couldn’t safely stop in time because it blew through the stop sign and was going too fast through the intersection.

Do we know that that’s what happened?

If the vehicle had come to a full stop and then proceeded safely through the intersection, it would not have killed her.

Seriously stop with this. If she was at the opposite side of the intersection where he stopped, and was hidden by parked cars and then darted out in front of him then yes, it is entirely possible he wouldn’t have had adequate time to stop.
If you need to be deliberately obtuse to get your point across, it’s not a very strong point.

Let's take a look at your imaginary scenario. If there are parked cars hiding the crosswalk, then the solution is to "daylight" the intersection with no-parking zones. Those parked cars would be a safety hazard. We can make the intersection safer by removing the safety hazard. Also, if it's possible for the driver to reach a deadly speed between stopping at the stop sign at one crosswalk, and crossing the intersection to the other crosswalk, then the intersection is too big. That's a safety hazard too. We can make the intersection safer by turning the crosswalks on both sides into raised crosswalks (speed tables with crosswalks on top of them).

All your ideas are great. But I was responding to the “If the vehicle had come to a full stop and then proceeded safely through the intersection, it would not have killed her” comment. There is absolutely a way he could have killed her, even following the law.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

There is one poster here that is basically saying it is always 100% the drivers fault - meaning unsupervised kids darting out into traffic is a-ok. I’m glad you agree that there is some parental responsibility in these situations.

Maybe you think it's ok that drivers kill "unsupervised" children who "dart out into traffic". I don't. I want roads to be safe even for "unsupervised" children who "dart out into traffic."

Also, no, it's not the parents' fault when drivers kill their children. It's also not the children's fault. It's the fault of the people who are responsible for providing safe roads and who have failed to fulfill their responsibility.