The death of Allie Hart and the need for safer streets

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

There is nothing you can do to prevent this from happening again, ok. It is absolutely tragic and it's horrible, but pedestrian deaths are a fact of life.

Driving is not taken seriously in this country. People just don't pay attention. But I don't think you or anyone else can change those things.

Pedestrian deaths are a CHOICE. In the US, we have chosen to have a transportation system that results in an increasing number of pedestrian deaths. We can make different choices.

Lady, you are in fantasy land. This is the real world, not some made up perfect world. You do not have any power. Even if you do d, there would still be literally thousands of traffic related deaths. You should focus on making smart decision on behalf of you and your family. You are just spinning your wheels and getting angry.

In the real world, the US has a higher rate of traffic deaths than any other wealthy country. We didn't used to. But now we do. How's that for American patriotism?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone know what actually happened?

It seems like the dad shouldn't have let a small child bike across the crosswalk alone. But is that what happened?

The driver hit the child in a crosswalk and killed her. That's what happened.

Did she dart out on her bike or was she watching for traffic? Where was the dad? The the truck stop at the stop sign?

She was five. There are no circumstances where it's acceptable for a five-year-old to be killed by a driver. Instead of asking whom to blame, please ask how to prevent this from happening to others. What can we do to make streets that are safe for five-year-olds?

You are looking at it backward. Roads ARE dangerous for kids particularly in the city. Parents must therefore exercise high caution for their kids. This is tragic but in my view this kid was not old enough to be biking around on city streets. When my kids started biking we did not let them near the main parkway by us that has sideways yet multiple side streets that must be crossed. That was a later skill we worked on. Not at 5.

Kids should be able to bike and walk where they live. Kids should be able to bike, scoot, and walk across a crosswalk with a stop sign. Kids should not have to only be transported in cars.

This is so weird to me. Kids bike and scoot and walk all over this city. Yes, we can and should make streets safer but we hardly live in a dystopian city with no safe sidewalks or places for kids to play.

Have you actually been out there? From what I have seen and experienced lately, drivers in the DC area have gotten a LOT worse, a LOT more aggressive, and a LOT more lawless in the last 3 years.

It has definitely gotten worse. Sooner or later, MPD is going to have to do an enforcement blitz and put a lot of drivers in jail. Absent that, the trajectory is terrifying.

This. I was in NYC recently and honestly NY drivers are better. DC drivers are among the worst in the country. They know they won't get pulled over ever, they know they can just not pay tickets and nothing happens. It's a free for all.

It's a culture where people will actually argue about whether not fully stopping at a stop sign behind the line should be subject to legal enforcement, trying to make excuses for rolling through a stop sign, as evidenced by some of the ridiculous posts on this forum.

I’ve driven in all but two of the lower 48 in the past few years and nowhere is as bad as the DMV. The next worst were the LA freeways (people drive fast, but at least they know how to drive) and I-5 around Seattle. Even FL is nowhere near as bad. The difference between the DMV and places like New England is night and day.

In 2020, DC ranked 31st out of 51 for pedestrian deaths.

Maryland is 15th and Virginia is 35th.

https://www-fars.nhtsa.dot.gov/States/StatesPedestrians.aspx

This study of driver behavior across 200 US *cities* has Baltimore ranked worst and DC second to worst: https://www.usnews.com/news/cities/slideshows/the-us-cities-with-the-worst-drivers?slide=10

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone know what actually happened?

It seems like the dad shouldn't have let a small child bike across the crosswalk alone. But is that what happened?

The driver hit the child in a crosswalk and killed her. That's what happened.

Did she dart out on her bike or was she watching for traffic? Where was the dad? The the truck stop at the stop sign?

She was five. There are no circumstances where it's acceptable for a five-year-old to be killed by a driver. Instead of asking whom to blame, please ask how to prevent this from happening to others. What can we do to make streets that are safe for five-year-olds?

There is nothing you can do to prevent this from happening again, ok. It is absolutely tragic and it's horrible, but pedestrian deaths are a fact of life.

Driving is not taken seriously in this country. People just don't pay attention. But I don't think you or anyone else can change those things.

Here are five things off the top of my head that can be done to reduce pedestrian fatalities:

1) Revise criminal code to make it manslaughter if you kill a pedestrian in a crosswalk and actually prosecute it
2) Daylight every single intersection in the city with bollards- make it so the last one or two parking spaces are taken away and are open to improve nightlines
3) Lobby the federal government to require things like side flaps and better nightlines in vehicles (this is already being done by several advocacy groups)
4) Increase enforcement of things like speeding, running redlights
5) Redesign roads to naturally slow down drivers- bulbouts, speed bumps, chicanes etc

None of these are quick fixes but if people keep lobbying local and federal officials, only voting for council members with records of introducing safe streets legislation etc then they can gradually change.

I have a very hard time with automatic arrest/penalties, it could devastate two people's life. My DH ran out into the street at 9/10 when he was playing with friends and the neighbor hit him. She was only going 10-15MPH and nearly had a heart attack. He was fine, but it was 100% his fault.

Yes, killing someone is obviously a severe extreme, but if he had been at a different angle, or she hadn't braked soon enough, it might have had a different outcome.

I posted yesterday (which was deleted) that pedestrians do not have a right of way in a crosswalk when a car is already in the middle of the intersection. If a child or adult darted out in front off me in the crosswalk, I don't believe the motorist should be deemed automatically at fault.

I also said yesterday that drivers are crazy. I live on a corner and people (incl my neighbors) rarely stop. Many don't even brake.

Was he in a crosswalk? You bolded language about making it manslaughter to kill someone in a crosswalk. If so, then no, it would not have been your husband's fault if he had been killed (even if he wasn't in a crosswalk it wouldn't have been either- it would have been the fault of 100 years of auto lobbying that puts the convenience of drivers over the lives of pedestrians).

Also, seriously gross to say that a ten year old would be at fault for running and playing with his kids and getting killed. There are many people that made decisions that would have led to that that could be blamed before a ten year old.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

There is nothing you can do to prevent this from happening again, ok. It is absolutely tragic and it's horrible, but pedestrian deaths are a fact of life.

Driving is not taken seriously in this country. People just don't pay attention. But I don't think you or anyone else can change those things.

Pedestrian deaths are a CHOICE. In the US, we have chosen to have a transportation system that results in an increasing number of pedestrian deaths. We can make different choices.

This has to be one irrational troll poster. No one can be this…clueless.

M

I don’t think the poster who stated “pedestrian deaths are a choice” is irrational at all. I totally agree in fact. Our country and our city have made policy choices that preference personal automobiles.

I am a third person in agreement with that statement. Thanks to the other anonymous posters for validating my views!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone know what actually happened?

It seems like the dad shouldn't have let a small child bike across the crosswalk alone. But is that what happened?

The driver hit the child in a crosswalk and killed her. That's what happened.

Did she dart out on her bike or was she watching for traffic? Where was the dad? The the truck stop at the stop sign?

She was five. There are no circumstances where it's acceptable for a five-year-old to be killed by a driver. Instead of asking whom to blame, please ask how to prevent this from happening to others. What can we do to make streets that are safe for five-year-olds?

I’m asking because I am trying to figure out how we best protect our kids. If that means walking beside them while they are on their bike in a crosswalk then that is what it takes. I’m not sure why putting your head in the sand about this seems to be so important to you. Do you lock your doors? If so, then you understand that while we all want safe homes, we know that sometimes we have to take precautions based on where we live.

How does one individual person, in their daily life, best protect their kids? By raising them in an urban place where you can primarily get around by walking, biking, or transit.
If that one individual person isn't doing that, what should they do? Try to be eternally vigilant, and hope random misfortune doesn't strike them.
How do WE best protect our kids? By insisting that our elected representatives support and fund policies that will actually make streets safe for five-year-olds.

What?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone know what actually happened?

It seems like the dad shouldn't have let a small child bike across the crosswalk alone. But is that what happened?

The driver hit the child in a crosswalk and killed her. That's what happened.

Did she dart out on her bike or was she watching for traffic? Where was the dad? The the truck stop at the stop sign?

She was five. There are no circumstances where it's acceptable for a five-year-old to be killed by a driver. Instead of asking whom to blame, please ask how to prevent this from happening to others. What can we do to make streets that are safe for five-year-olds?

I’m asking because I am trying to figure out how we best protect our kids. If that means walking beside them while they are on their bike in a crosswalk then that is what it takes. I’m not sure why putting your head in the sand about this seems to be so important to you. Do you lock your doors? If so, then you understand that while we all want safe homes, we know that sometimes we have to take precautions based on where we live.

How does one individual person, in their daily life, best protect their kids? By raising them in an urban place where you can primarily get around by walking, biking, or transit.
If that one individual person isn't doing that, what should they do? Try to be eternally vigilant, and hope random misfortune doesn't strike them.
How do WE best protect our kids? By insisting that our elected representatives support and fund policies that will actually make streets safe for five-year-olds.

Nobody is saying there isn’t change needed. But understanding what happened helps people know what they can do, in that moment, to protect their child can help another family. Sorry you don’t seem to care about that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone know what actually happened?

It seems like the dad shouldn't have let a small child bike across the crosswalk alone. But is that what happened?

The driver hit the child in a crosswalk and killed her. That's what happened.

Did she dart out on her bike or was she watching for traffic? Where was the dad? The the truck stop at the stop sign?

She was five. There are no circumstances where it's acceptable for a five-year-old to be killed by a driver. Instead of asking whom to blame, please ask how to prevent this from happening to others. What can we do to make streets that are safe for five-year-olds?

I’m asking because I am trying to figure out how we best protect our kids. If that means walking beside them while they are on their bike in a crosswalk then that is what it takes. I’m not sure why putting your head in the sand about this seems to be so important to you. Do you lock your doors? If so, then you understand that while we all want safe homes, we know that sometimes we have to take precautions based on where we live.

How does one individual person, in their daily life, best protect their kids? By raising them in an urban place where you can primarily get around by walking, biking, or transit.
If that one individual person isn't doing that, what should they do? Try to be eternally vigilant, and hope random misfortune doesn't strike them.
How do WE best protect our kids? By insisting that our elected representatives support and fund policies that will actually make streets safe for five-year-olds.

Nobody is saying there isn’t change needed. But understanding what happened helps people know what they can do, in that moment, to protect their child can help another family. Sorry you don’t seem to care about that.

Well, let's see. Zyaire was holding his mother's hand in a crosswalk. Allie was riding in a crosswalk with her father. Haekal was waiting at a school bus stop with his father and baby brother. 2 girls were walking to school with their father on Walk to School Day (they weren't killed). So you tell me.

We all like to think that if something bad happened to somebody, it's because they did something wrong, and we'll be safe as long as we don't do anything wrong. Unfortunately, it's not true.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

So as a city compared to state rather than cities, that's pretty awful actually. And our closest state is also pretty awful, no surprise considering majority of fines from traffic cams are MD drivers barreling through our city without repercussions. This basically supports the assertion that DC has awful drivers. If you click on the New York (city) subdivision within NY, it's the same number of pedestrian deaths as DC (10) though NYC is vastly more populated than DC.

So in conclusion, drivers in DC are awful.

Um.

21 pedestrians killed in the Bronx (Bronx County). 81 pedestrians killed in Queens (Queens County). 47 pedestrians killed in Brooklyn (Kings County). 85 pedestrians killed in Staten Island (Richmond County). And 10 pedestrians killed in Manhattan (New York County). Total: 244 pedestrians killed in New York City in 2020.

Fine. So then do the rate per population. DC still higher. 18 million people live in NYC. not even 700k in DC.

As stated, DC drivers are worse than NYC drivers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone know what actually happened?

It seems like the dad shouldn't have let a small child bike across the crosswalk alone. But is that what happened?

The driver hit the child in a crosswalk and killed her. That's what happened.

Did she dart out on her bike or was she watching for traffic? Where was the dad? The the truck stop at the stop sign?

She was five. There are no circumstances where it's acceptable for a five-year-old to be killed by a driver. Instead of asking whom to blame, please ask how to prevent this from happening to others. What can we do to make streets that are safe for five-year-olds?

You are looking at it backward. Roads ARE dangerous for kids particularly in the city. Parents must therefore exercise high caution for their kids. This is tragic but in my view this kid was not old enough to be biking around on city streets. When my kids started biking we did not let them near the main parkway by us that has sideways yet multiple side streets that must be crossed. That was a later skill we worked on. Not at 5.

Kids should be able to bike and walk where they live. Kids should be able to bike, scoot, and walk across a crosswalk with a stop sign. Kids should not have to only be transported in cars.

This is so weird to me. Kids bike and scoot and walk all over this city. Yes, we can and should make streets safer but we hardly live in a dystopian city with no safe sidewalks or places for kids to play.

Have you actually been out there? From what I have seen and experienced lately, drivers in the DC area have gotten a LOT worse, a LOT more aggressive, and a LOT more lawless in the last 3 years.

It has definitely gotten worse. Sooner or later, MPD is going to have to do an enforcement blitz and put a lot of drivers in jail. Absent that, the trajectory is terrifying.

This. I was in NYC recently and honestly NY drivers are better. DC drivers are among the worst in the country. They know they won't get pulled over ever, they know they can just not pay tickets and nothing happens. It's a free for all.

It's a culture where people will actually argue about whether not fully stopping at a stop sign behind the line should be subject to legal enforcement, trying to make excuses for rolling through a stop sign, as evidenced by some of the ridiculous posts on this forum.

I’ve driven in all but two of the lower 48 in the past few years and nowhere is as bad as the DMV. The next worst were the LA freeways (people drive fast, but at least they know how to drive) and I-5 around Seattle. Even FL is nowhere near as bad. The difference between the DMV and places like New England is night and day.

In 2020, DC ranked 31st out of 51 for pedestrian deaths.

Maryland is 15th and Virginia is 35th.

https://www-fars.nhtsa.dot.gov/States/StatesPedestrians.aspx

So as a city compared to state rather than cities, that's pretty awful actually. And our closest state is also pretty awful, no surprise considering majority of fines from traffic cams are MD drivers barreling through our city without repercussions. This basically supports the assertion that DC has awful drivers. If you click on the New York (city) subdivision within NY, it's the same number of pedestrian deaths as DC (10) though NYC is vastly more populated than DC.

So in conclusion, drivers in DC are awful.

It's adjusted per 100K residents, numb nut.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone know what actually happened?

It seems like the dad shouldn't have let a small child bike across the crosswalk alone. But is that what happened?

The driver hit the child in a crosswalk and killed her. That's what happened.

Did she dart out on her bike or was she watching for traffic? Where was the dad? The the truck stop at the stop sign?

She was five. There are no circumstances where it's acceptable for a five-year-old to be killed by a driver. Instead of asking whom to blame, please ask how to prevent this from happening to others. What can we do to make streets that are safe for five-year-olds?

You are looking at it backward. Roads ARE dangerous for kids particularly in the city. Parents must therefore exercise high caution for their kids. This is tragic but in my view this kid was not old enough to be biking around on city streets. When my kids started biking we did not let them near the main parkway by us that has sideways yet multiple side streets that must be crossed. That was a later skill we worked on. Not at 5.

Kids should be able to bike and walk where they live. Kids should be able to bike, scoot, and walk across a crosswalk with a stop sign. Kids should not have to only be transported in cars.

This is so weird to me. Kids bike and scoot and walk all over this city. Yes, we can and should make streets safer but we hardly live in a dystopian city with no safe sidewalks or places for kids to play.

Have you actually been out there? From what I have seen and experienced lately, drivers in the DC area have gotten a LOT worse, a LOT more aggressive, and a LOT more lawless in the last 3 years.

It has definitely gotten worse. Sooner or later, MPD is going to have to do an enforcement blitz and put a lot of drivers in jail. Absent that, the trajectory is terrifying.

This. I was in NYC recently and honestly NY drivers are better. DC drivers are among the worst in the country. They know they won't get pulled over ever, they know they can just not pay tickets and nothing happens. It's a free for all.

It's a culture where people will actually argue about whether not fully stopping at a stop sign behind the line should be subject to legal enforcement, trying to make excuses for rolling through a stop sign, as evidenced by some of the ridiculous posts on this forum.

I’ve driven in all but two of the lower 48 in the past few years and nowhere is as bad as the DMV. The next worst were the LA freeways (people drive fast, but at least they know how to drive) and I-5 around Seattle. Even FL is nowhere near as bad. The difference between the DMV and places like New England is night and day.

In 2020, DC ranked 31st out of 51 for pedestrian deaths.

Maryland is 15th and Virginia is 35th.

https://www-fars.nhtsa.dot.gov/States/StatesPedestrians.aspx

This study of driver behavior across 200 US *cities* has Baltimore ranked worst and DC second to worst: https://www.usnews.com/news/cities/slideshows/the-us-cities-with-the-worst-drivers?slide=10

It doesn't show their data, and we're talking about pedestrians. NHTSA is a reputable source for it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone know what actually happened?

It seems like the dad shouldn't have let a small child bike across the crosswalk alone. But is that what happened?

The driver hit the child in a crosswalk and killed her. That's what happened.

Did she dart out on her bike or was she watching for traffic? Where was the dad? The the truck stop at the stop sign?

She was five. There are no circumstances where it's acceptable for a five-year-old to be killed by a driver. Instead of asking whom to blame, please ask how to prevent this from happening to others. What can we do to make streets that are safe for five-year-olds?

There is nothing you can do to prevent this from happening again, ok. It is absolutely tragic and it's horrible, but pedestrian deaths are a fact of life.

Driving is not taken seriously in this country. People just don't pay attention. But I don't think you or anyone else can change those things.

Here are five things off the top of my head that can be done to reduce pedestrian fatalities:

1) Revise criminal code to make it manslaughter if you kill a pedestrian in a crosswalk and actually prosecute it
2) Daylight every single intersection in the city with bollards- make it so the last one or two parking spaces are taken away and are open to improve nightlines
3) Lobby the federal government to require things like side flaps and better nightlines in vehicles (this is already being done by several advocacy groups)
4) Increase enforcement of things like speeding, running redlights
5) Redesign roads to naturally slow down drivers- bulbouts, speed bumps, chicanes etc

None of these are quick fixes but if people keep lobbying local and federal officials, only voting for council members with records of introducing safe streets legislation etc then they can gradually change.

I have a very hard time with automatic arrest/penalties, it could devastate two people's life. My DH ran out into the street at 9/10 when he was playing with friends and the neighbor hit him. She was only going 10-15MPH and nearly had a heart attack. He was fine, but it was 100% his fault.

Yes, killing someone is obviously a severe extreme, but if he had been at a different angle, or she hadn't braked soon enough, it might have had a different outcome.

I posted yesterday (which was deleted) that pedestrians do not have a right of way in a crosswalk when a car is already in the middle of the intersection. If a child or adult darted out in front off me in the crosswalk, I don't believe the motorist should be deemed automatically at fault.

I also said yesterday that drivers are crazy. I live on a corner and people (incl my neighbors) rarely stop. Many don't even brake.

Was he in a crosswalk? You bolded language about making it manslaughter to kill someone in a crosswalk. If so, then no, it would not have been your husband's fault if he had been killed (even if he wasn't in a crosswalk it wouldn't have been either- it would have been the fault of 100 years of auto lobbying that puts the convenience of drivers over the lives of pedestrians).

Also, seriously gross to say that a ten year old would be at fault for running and playing with his kids and getting killed. There are many people that made decisions that would have led to that that could be blamed before a ten year old.

So, whose "fault" is it that his neighbor hit him? Is it hers because she have been walking to the grocery store? Or, is it a "no fault" accident, which people have said upthread?

What decision did she and "many other people" make that caused him to go up on his hood? Should he have blamed her for the past 50 years?

I think this kind of reasoning just makes @sshole drivers double down and makes the government less likely to listen to people who want better safety measures. Which is sad.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone know what actually happened?

It seems like the dad shouldn't have let a small child bike across the crosswalk alone. But is that what happened?

The driver hit the child in a crosswalk and killed her. That's what happened.

Did she dart out on her bike or was she watching for traffic? Where was the dad? The the truck stop at the stop sign?

She was five. There are no circumstances where it's acceptable for a five-year-old to be killed by a driver. Instead of asking whom to blame, please ask how to prevent this from happening to others. What can we do to make streets that are safe for five-year-olds?

There is nothing you can do to prevent this from happening again, ok. It is absolutely tragic and it's horrible, but pedestrian deaths are a fact of life.

Driving is not taken seriously in this country. People just don't pay attention. But I don't think you or anyone else can change those things.

Here are five things off the top of my head that can be done to reduce pedestrian fatalities:

1) Revise criminal code to make it manslaughter if you kill a pedestrian in a crosswalk and actually prosecute it
2) Daylight every single intersection in the city with bollards- make it so the last one or two parking spaces are taken away and are open to improve nightlines
3) Lobby the federal government to require things like side flaps and better nightlines in vehicles (this is already being done by several advocacy groups)
4) Increase enforcement of things like speeding, running redlights
5) Redesign roads to naturally slow down drivers- bulbouts, speed bumps, chicanes etc

None of these are quick fixes but if people keep lobbying local and federal officials, only voting for council members with records of introducing safe streets legislation etc then they can gradually change.

I have a very hard time with automatic arrest/penalties, it could devastate two people's life. My DH ran out into the street at 9/10 when he was playing with friends and the neighbor hit him. She was only going 10-15MPH and nearly had a heart attack. He was fine, but it was 100% his fault.

Yes, killing someone is obviously a severe extreme, but if he had been at a different angle, or she hadn't braked soon enough, it might have had a different outcome.

I posted yesterday (which was deleted) that pedestrians do not have a right of way in a crosswalk when a car is already in the middle of the intersection. If a child or adult darted out in front off me in the crosswalk, I don't believe the motorist should be deemed automatically at fault.

I also said yesterday that drivers are crazy. I live on a corner and people (incl my neighbors) rarely stop. Many don't even brake.

Was he in a crosswalk? You bolded language about making it manslaughter to kill someone in a crosswalk. If so, then no, it would not have been your husband's fault if he had been killed (even if he wasn't in a crosswalk it wouldn't have been either- it would have been the fault of 100 years of auto lobbying that puts the convenience of drivers over the lives of pedestrians).

Also, seriously gross to say that a ten year old would be at fault for running and playing with his kids and getting killed. There are many people that made decisions that would have led to that that could be blamed before a ten year old.

So, whose "fault" is it that his neighbor hit him? Is it hers because she have been walking to the grocery store? Or, is it a "no fault" accident, which people have said upthread?

What decision did she and "many other people" make that caused him to go up on his hood? Should he have blamed her for the past 50 years?

I think this kind of reasoning just makes @sshole drivers double down and makes the government less likely to listen to people who want better safety measures. Which is sad.

Whose fault is it, ultimately? Everybody who contributed to and maintains the transportation and land use policies that prioritize cars and driving over every other consideration.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone know what actually happened?

It seems like the dad shouldn't have let a small child bike across the crosswalk alone. But is that what happened?

The driver hit the child in a crosswalk and killed her. That's what happened.

Did she dart out on her bike or was she watching for traffic? Where was the dad? The the truck stop at the stop sign?

She was five. There are no circumstances where it's acceptable for a five-year-old to be killed by a driver. Instead of asking whom to blame, please ask how to prevent this from happening to others. What can we do to make streets that are safe for five-year-olds?

There is nothing you can do to prevent this from happening again, ok. It is absolutely tragic and it's horrible, but pedestrian deaths are a fact of life.

Driving is not taken seriously in this country. People just don't pay attention. But I don't think you or anyone else can change those things.

Here are five things off the top of my head that can be done to reduce pedestrian fatalities:

1) Revise criminal code to make it manslaughter if you kill a pedestrian in a crosswalk and actually prosecute it
2) Daylight every single intersection in the city with bollards- make it so the last one or two parking spaces are taken away and are open to improve nightlines
3) Lobby the federal government to require things like side flaps and better nightlines in vehicles (this is already being done by several advocacy groups)
4) Increase enforcement of things like speeding, running redlights
5) Redesign roads to naturally slow down drivers- bulbouts, speed bumps, chicanes etc

None of these are quick fixes but if people keep lobbying local and federal officials, only voting for council members with records of introducing safe streets legislation etc then they can gradually change.

I have a very hard time with automatic arrest/penalties, it could devastate two people's life. My DH ran out into the street at 9/10 when he was playing with friends and the neighbor hit him. She was only going 10-15MPH and nearly had a heart attack. He was fine, but it was 100% his fault.

Yes, killing someone is obviously a severe extreme, but if he had been at a different angle, or she hadn't braked soon enough, it might have had a different outcome.

I posted yesterday (which was deleted) that pedestrians do not have a right of way in a crosswalk when a car is already in the middle of the intersection. If a child or adult darted out in front off me in the crosswalk, I don't believe the motorist should be deemed automatically at fault.

I also said yesterday that drivers are crazy. I live on a corner and people (incl my neighbors) rarely stop. Many don't even brake.

Was he in a crosswalk? You bolded language about making it manslaughter to kill someone in a crosswalk. If so, then no, it would not have been your husband's fault if he had been killed (even if he wasn't in a crosswalk it wouldn't have been either- it would have been the fault of 100 years of auto lobbying that puts the convenience of drivers over the lives of pedestrians).

Also, seriously gross to say that a ten year old would be at fault for running and playing with his kids and getting killed. There are many people that made decisions that would have led to that that could be blamed before a ten year old.

So, whose "fault" is it that his neighbor hit him? Is it hers because she have been walking to the grocery store? Or, is it a "no fault" accident, which people have said upthread?

What decision did she and "many other people" make that caused him to go up on his hood? Should he have blamed her for the past 50 years?

I think this kind of reasoning just makes @sshole drivers double down and makes the government less likely to listen to people who want better safety measures. Which is sad.

Whose fault is it, ultimately? Everybody who contributed to and maintains the transportation and land use policies that prioritize cars and driving over every other consideration.

So, my question that she should have walked to the grocery store is affirmative for you? She shouldn't have driven through the neighborhood because children live there?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

So, my question that she should have walked to the grocery store is affirmative for you? She shouldn't have driven through the neighborhood because children live there?

I mean, it does seem kind of obvious that if she had walked rather than driven to the grocery store, she wouldn't have almost hit the child while she was driving? That doesn't make it her fault for having driven. However, we'd all be safer on the streets if it were easier for more people to walk rather than drive to the grocery store.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

So, my question that she should have walked to the grocery store is affirmative for you? She shouldn't have driven through the neighborhood because children live there?

I mean, it does seem kind of obvious that if she had walked rather than driven to the grocery store, she wouldn't have almost hit the child while she was driving? That doesn't make it her fault for having driven. However, we'd all be safer on the streets if it were easier for more people to walk rather than drive to the grocery store.

I agree that would be a dream to walk to an affordable, well-stocked grocery store.

But, the fault thing still is a bit nebulous. Another anecdote: My dad's BFF's life was ruined when he killed two pedestrians who stepped off a median to jay walk in front of him. He went into a depression, stopped talking to anyone and my dad never saw him again. He clearly was traumatized, but it was determined by all witnesses that it was not his fault. That's why I initially questioned that everyone who killed a pedestrian should be sentenced. I'm not sure it would have beneficial for anyone (including taxpayers) to have him in jail. But, clearly most people on this thread disagree and believe he is a monster.