The death of Allie Hart and the need for safer streets

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The driver of the van who killed Allie Hart came to a complete stop. Then he proceeded to start through the intersection and Allie came down the sidewalk and without stopping continued into the street, where she and her adult did not, in fact, have the right of way.

It is tragic beyond belief. But the driver STOPPED and then commenced to drive thru a clear crosswalk.

What speed was he going - I mean cmon - if he just started up from a complete stop this would not have resulted in death.

There are a couple of scenarios I could envisage where the driver could have truly been not at fault. These would include her traveling very fast across the crosswalk, hitting the side of the vehicle, and being caught underneath the vehicle. But we should not have to speculate. Whatever happened, the release of the full investigatory report would provide a basis for the city to make changes to road regulations that would reduce the chances of similar accidents. Why, after 15 months, do we not have a report?

Why are you, and maybe a few others (or just you) so invested in trying to cast blame on a five year old for a drivers error? It's really freaking weird

Why are you so obsessed with pinning murderous action on a truck driver when the police exonerated him? It's really weird.

No one wanted Allie to die. What do we do now that can make those who have survived, like her brother, safer?

This was my first post on this thread (although I did report of few of what I'm assuming are your posts). If you look at the embedded tweet that shows more cars ignoring the stop sign at the intersection where a child DIED, you'd see that maybe drivers aren't exactly angels

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Why are you so obsessed with pinning murderous action on a truck driver when the police exonerated him? It's really weird.

No one wanted Allie to die. What do we do now that can make those who have survived, like her brother, safer?

Make the streets safer, which will include redesigning them so that drivers drive more slowly. And it will also include NOT complaining about bike lanes or loss of parking or anything else that will make it more inconvenient for people in a dense city to go places fast by car.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Why are you so obsessed with pinning murderous action on a truck driver when the police exonerated him? It's really weird.

No one wanted Allie to die. What do we do now that can make those who have survived, like her brother, safer?

Make the streets safer, which will include redesigning them so that drivers drive more slowly. And it will also include NOT complaining about bike lanes or loss of parking or anything else that will make it more inconvenient for people in a dense city to go places fast by car.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The driver of the van who killed Allie Hart came to a complete stop. Then he proceeded to start through the intersection and Allie came down the sidewalk and without stopping continued into the street, where she and her adult did not, in fact, have the right of way.

It is tragic beyond belief. But the driver STOPPED and then commenced to drive thru a clear crosswalk.

What speed was he going - I mean cmon - if he just started up from a complete stop this would not have resulted in death.

There are a couple of scenarios I could envisage where the driver could have truly been not at fault. These would include her traveling very fast across the crosswalk, hitting the side of the vehicle, and being caught underneath the vehicle. But we should not have to speculate. Whatever happened, the release of the full investigatory report would provide a basis for the city to make changes to road regulations that would reduce the chances of similar accidents. Why, after 15 months, do we not have a report?

Because (1) the police generally don't make them public (2) in any case, police reports are about findings of legal fault, not about street design.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The driver of the van who killed Allie Hart came to a complete stop. Then he proceeded to start through the intersection and Allie came down the sidewalk and without stopping continued into the street, where she and her adult did not, in fact, have the right of way.

It is tragic beyond belief. But the driver STOPPED and then commenced to drive thru a clear crosswalk.

What speed was he going - I mean cmon - if he just started up from a complete stop this would not have resulted in death.

There are a couple of scenarios I could envisage where the driver could have truly been not at fault. These would include her traveling very fast across the crosswalk, hitting the side of the vehicle, and being caught underneath the vehicle. But we should not have to speculate. Whatever happened, the release of the full investigatory report would provide a basis for the city to make changes to road regulations that would reduce the chances of similar accidents. Why, after 15 months, do we not have a report?

Because (1) the police generally don't make them public (2) in any case, police reports are about findings of legal fault, not about street design.

Police reports are absolutely not about findings of legal fault. That's the role of the courts.

Police reports are about collecting evidence at the scene.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Why are you so obsessed with pinning murderous action on a truck driver when the police exonerated him? It's really weird.

No one wanted Allie to die. What do we do now that can make those who have survived, like her brother, safer?

Make the streets safer, which will include redesigning them so that drivers drive more slowly. And it will also include NOT complaining about bike lanes or loss of parking or anything else that will make it more inconvenient for people in a dense city to go places fast by car.

+1

+2
We need to stop designing cities around cars. We need to design them around people. Drivers are not any more important than anyone else, and they are more likely to kill people than bikes or pedestrians. Let's act like it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The driver of the van who killed Allie Hart came to a complete stop. Then he proceeded to start through the intersection and Allie came down the sidewalk and without stopping continued into the street, where she and her adult did not, in fact, have the right of way.

It is tragic beyond belief. But the driver STOPPED and then commenced to drive thru a clear crosswalk.

How do you come to a complete stop, look both ways, not see a child coming towards you, then accelerate fast enough to kill her? No way that driver came to a complete stop.

+1 or he stopped but didn’t look both ways. I have seen this so many times when I am in the crosswalk already.

https://wtop.com/dc/2021/09/girl-struck-and-killed-in-northeast-dc-crosswalk-identified/

The initial police findings are often wrong, and they were wrong in this case.

Plus, if you were driving, and you killed a child, would it make you feel better knowing that you had the right-of-way? It wouldn't make me feel better. When I'm driving, I try not to hit people, right-of-way or no right-of-way. And I take special care when I'm driving around children, which the law actually requires drivers to do.

If the report was wrong, what really happened?

The driver blew through the stopsign. Just like multiple videos show multiple vehicle operators doing on a regular basis.

No. Multiple witnesses said the driver came to a complete stop. Then proceeded. Then poor child comes flying down the sidewalk and without breaking speed continues into the street --and right into the front fender of his vehicle

Obviously a squishy human is going to lose that collision every single time. That is not the same thing as fault It also doesn't mean the driver didn't stop, as much as you need that to be true to fit your narrative and all the baggage you bring to this issue.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The driver of the van who killed Allie Hart came to a complete stop. Then he proceeded to start through the intersection and Allie came down the sidewalk and without stopping continued into the street, where she and her adult did not, in fact, have the right of way.

It is tragic beyond belief. But the driver STOPPED and then commenced to drive thru a clear crosswalk.

What speed was he going - I mean cmon - if he just started up from a complete stop this would not have resulted in death.

There are a couple of scenarios I could envisage where the driver could have truly been not at fault. These would include her traveling very fast across the crosswalk, hitting the side of the vehicle, and being caught underneath the vehicle. But we should not have to speculate. Whatever happened, the release of the full investigatory report would provide a basis for the city to make changes to road regulations that would reduce the chances of similar accidents. Why, after 15 months, do we not have a report?

Because (1) the police generally don't make them public (2) in any case, police reports are about findings of legal fault, not about street design.

Police reports are absolutely not about findings of legal fault. That's the role of the courts.

Police reports are about collecting evidence at the scene.

Absolutely. Very basic facts - such as where the vehicle struck Allie - would be useful to informing decisions about roadway design and vehicle regulation. Knowing that someone was killed when they were pulled under a truck or other large vehicle makes the case for requiring under-guards or whatever they are called.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The driver of the van who killed Allie Hart came to a complete stop. Then he proceeded to start through the intersection and Allie came down the sidewalk and without stopping continued into the street, where she and her adult did not, in fact, have the right of way.

It is tragic beyond belief. But the driver STOPPED and then commenced to drive thru a clear crosswalk.

What speed was he going - I mean cmon - if he just started up from a complete stop this would not have resulted in death.

There are a couple of scenarios I could envisage where the driver could have truly been not at fault. These would include her traveling very fast across the crosswalk, hitting the side of the vehicle, and being caught underneath the vehicle. But we should not have to speculate. Whatever happened, the release of the full investigatory report would provide a basis for the city to make changes to road regulations that would reduce the chances of similar accidents. Why, after 15 months, do we not have a report?

Why are you, and maybe a few others (or just you) so invested in trying to cast blame on a five year old for a drivers error? It's really freaking weird

Not PP. I am simply vested in you not lying. Stop making up facts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The driver of the van who killed Allie Hart came to a complete stop. Then he proceeded to start through the intersection and Allie came down the sidewalk and without stopping continued into the street, where she and her adult did not, in fact, have the right of way.

It is tragic beyond belief. But the driver STOPPED and then commenced to drive thru a clear crosswalk.

How do you come to a complete stop, look both ways, not see a child coming towards you, then accelerate fast enough to kill her? No way that driver came to a complete stop.

+1 or he stopped but didn’t look both ways. I have seen this so many times when I am in the crosswalk already.

https://wtop.com/dc/2021/09/girl-struck-and-killed-in-northeast-dc-crosswalk-identified/

The initial police findings are often wrong, and they were wrong in this case.

Plus, if you were driving, and you killed a child, would it make you feel better knowing that you had the right-of-way? It wouldn't make me feel better. When I'm driving, I try not to hit people, right-of-way or no right-of-way. And I take special care when I'm driving around children, which the law actually requires drivers to do.

If the report was wrong, what really happened?

The driver blew through the stopsign. Just like multiple videos show multiple vehicle operators doing on a regular basis.

No. Multiple witnesses said the driver came to a complete stop. Then proceeded. Then poor child comes flying down the sidewalk and without breaking speed continues into the street --and right into the front fender of his vehicle

Obviously a squishy human is going to lose that collision every single time. That is not the same thing as fault It also doesn't mean the driver didn't stop, as much as you need that to be true to fit your narrative and all the baggage you bring to this issue.

Not disputing what you’ve said, but I’m curious as to how you know what multiple witnesses said in the absence of a public report on the investigation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The driver of the van who killed Allie Hart came to a complete stop. Then he proceeded to start through the intersection and Allie came down the sidewalk and without stopping continued into the street, where she and her adult did not, in fact, have the right of way.

It is tragic beyond belief. But the driver STOPPED and then commenced to drive thru a clear crosswalk.

What speed was he going - I mean cmon - if he just started up from a complete stop this would not have resulted in death.

There are a couple of scenarios I could envisage where the driver could have truly been not at fault. These would include her traveling very fast across the crosswalk, hitting the side of the vehicle, and being caught underneath the vehicle. But we should not have to speculate. Whatever happened, the release of the full investigatory report would provide a basis for the city to make changes to road regulations that would reduce the chances of similar accidents. Why, after 15 months, do we not have a report?

Why are you, and maybe a few others (or just you) so invested in trying to cast blame on a five year old for a drivers error? It's really freaking weird

Not trying to do that at all. Just trying to imagine scenarios in which the driver would not be at fault. But that’s also not the point, which is that we shouldn’t have to imagine anything because we should have a report from MPD on the findings of their investigation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Why are you so obsessed with pinning murderous action on a truck driver when the police exonerated him? It's really weird.

No one wanted Allie to die. What do we do now that can make those who have survived, like her brother, safer?

Make the streets safer, which will include redesigning them so that drivers drive more slowly. And it will also include NOT complaining about bike lanes or loss of parking or anything else that will make it more inconvenient for people in a dense city to go places fast by car.

+1

+2
We need to stop designing cities around cars. We need to design them around people. Drivers are not any more important than anyone else, and they are more likely to kill people than bikes or pedestrians. Let's act like it.

Most people in this metropolitan area of 6 million people do drive cars, or ride in them if underage. We should design so that everyone stays safe and also to facilitate, not gratuitously impede, the primary purpose of cities. Community, yes, say the bike brigade. But just as importantly, commerce.

When you choke the entire city down to 1/2 lane in each direction, you're privileging the Arts On The Right-of-Way, er, Street over the economic engine that allows you to live here in the first place. Duh.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The driver of the van who killed Allie Hart came to a complete stop. Then he proceeded to start through the intersection and Allie came down the sidewalk and without stopping continued into the street, where she and her adult did not, in fact, have the right of way.

It is tragic beyond belief. But the driver STOPPED and then commenced to drive thru a clear crosswalk.

What speed was he going - I mean cmon - if he just started up from a complete stop this would not have resulted in death.

There are a couple of scenarios I could envisage where the driver could have truly been not at fault. These would include her traveling very fast across the crosswalk, hitting the side of the vehicle, and being caught underneath the vehicle. But we should not have to speculate. Whatever happened, the release of the full investigatory report would provide a basis for the city to make changes to road regulations that would reduce the chances of similar accidents. Why, after 15 months, do we not have a report?

Because (1) the police generally don't make them public (2) in any case, police reports are about findings of legal fault, not about street design.

Police reports are absolutely not about findings of legal fault. That's the role of the courts.

Police reports are about collecting evidence at the scene.

Nope. I've looked at a ton of police investigations of fatal crashes. They're about establishing whether or not someone in the crash broke the law. Plus, the absolutely easiest thing for the police to do is to determine that the person who was killed was at fault.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The driver of the van who killed Allie Hart came to a complete stop. Then he proceeded to start through the intersection and Allie came down the sidewalk and without stopping continued into the street, where she and her adult did not, in fact, have the right of way.

It is tragic beyond belief. But the driver STOPPED and then commenced to drive thru a clear crosswalk.

How do you come to a complete stop, look both ways, not see a child coming towards you, then accelerate fast enough to kill her? No way that driver came to a complete stop.

+1 or he stopped but didn’t look both ways. I have seen this so many times when I am in the crosswalk already.

https://wtop.com/dc/2021/09/girl-struck-and-killed-in-northeast-dc-crosswalk-identified/

The initial police findings are often wrong, and they were wrong in this case.

Plus, if you were driving, and you killed a child, would it make you feel better knowing that you had the right-of-way? It wouldn't make me feel better. When I'm driving, I try not to hit people, right-of-way or no right-of-way. And I take special care when I'm driving around children, which the law actually requires drivers to do.

If the report was wrong, what really happened?

The driver blew through the stopsign. Just like multiple videos show multiple vehicle operators doing on a regular basis.

No. Multiple witnesses said the driver came to a complete stop. Then proceeded. Then poor child comes flying down the sidewalk and without breaking speed continues into the street --and right into the front fender of his vehicle

Obviously a squishy human is going to lose that collision every single time. That is not the same thing as fault It also doesn't mean the driver didn't stop, as much as you need that to be true to fit your narrative and all the baggage you bring to this issue.

Not disputing what you’ve said, but I’m curious as to how you know what multiple witnesses said in the absence of a public report on the investigation.

That is what MPD reported out at the time in 2021, and they are 'the public.' Just reading what they found.

And let's be real here. Don't you think that when a five year old DIES in an accident they are going to cross T's and dot I's before stating something publicly? An adorable white child from a media-savvy neighborhood of professionals? Yes, yes MPD will speak carefully.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

That is what MPD reported out at the time in 2021, and they are 'the public.' Just reading what they found.

And let's be real here. Don't you think that when a five year old DIES in an accident they are going to cross T's and dot I's before stating something publicly? An adorable white child from a media-savvy neighborhood of professionals? Yes, yes MPD will speak carefully.

I think you don't have much experience with police statements about fatal crashes, especially fatal crashes involving pedestrians or bicyclists or people on scooters.