Oakton crash

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:DP - I do feel bad for everyone involved. The driver of the BMW didn’t intend to kill anyone. And the driver and his/her family will have to live with the consequences of the stupidity and recklessness of the actions forever. Of course, I feel immeasurably worse for the pedestrians and their families who did nothing wrong.

Yes, I do feel bad for everyone too. BUT the driver had a reckless disregard for the safety of others if he's driving that fast. And he definitely INTENDED to speed. No one forced him to speed. He deserves lots of jail time for his cavalier attitude endangering others. Do you want a society where vehicular manslaughter goes unpunished or gets a slap on their wrist?

The driver of the 4runner needs to be investigated too. How could they not see the other car coming towards them so quickly? Why did they turn right in front of the BMW??

How many responses do you need -- at 100mph the car was out of sight before it was essentially at the intersection.

what I don't understand, if BMW had the wherewithal to honk his horn, why was he not applying the brakes??

That is what I was wondering. Pictures from the crash site do not show any type of skid marks which I would expect if someone was slamming on the brakes of a car at high speed. I am not a forensic expert so I am not certain that I should be seeing those type of skid marks but the witness reports mention the horn and not braking.

People often mention a lack of skid marks as evidence that a driver didn’t try to stop … I’m no expert, but with modern anti-lock brake systems I’m not sure that’s a valid correlation anymore. I was recently in a near-miss incident: approaching a green light at 45mph, a car coming from my right ran their red light and popped out into the intersection in front of me. I slammed on my brakes HARD - purse went flying off the backseat onto the floor, seatbelt locked up, kid in the backseat lost hold of the book in his hands. I could feel the ABS kicking in. When we stopped and got out (I was able to avoid the car, but it collided with another car in the lane next to me), there were no skid marks anywhere. A good ABS prevents the lock-up that leads to skidding, no matter how hard you’re hitting the brakes.

Not saying AT ALL that this kid did brake, I obviously have no information there. And I’m not defending the driver one bit. Just pointing out that with newer cars, lack of skid marks doesn’t necessarily mean there was no attempt at braking the way it used to.

Thanks, that is helpful info. I just think of people doing donuts and I seem to remember police measuring skid marks as part of their determination of speed.

Yep, sliding sideways is different from braking straight-ahead. If the tires slide rather than roll, you’ll get skid marks. ABS is intended to reduce skidding due to sudden brake application, but it won’t stop tires from sliding sideways (which can happen whether brakes are applied or not).

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DP - I do feel bad for everyone involved. The driver of the BMW didn’t intend to kill anyone. And the driver and his/her family will have to live with the consequences of the stupidity and recklessness of the actions forever. Of course, I feel immeasurably worse for the pedestrians and their families who did nothing wrong.

And I feel horrible for the Toyota driver, who was probably thinking if I just hadn’t taken the left turn… Poor guy.

For sure. He's thinking... if only I had left home 2 min. earlier... or 2 min. later, these two girls would be alive today.

so now is his fault?

He turned into the path of an oncoming car - a car with the right away.

BMW lost right of way by speeding. It's in the virginia code posted upthread.

Absolutely. Likely 2 charges of vehicular manslaughter, charge of reckless driving, speeding, and operating in an unsafe manner. Perhaps 15-20 years incarcerated.

I highly doubt that re: jail time. I'd expect a year or two at most, plus community service, and some period of probation. I wouldn't be surprised if he only had a few months of jail or home confinement. BMW driver will be portrayed as having a bright future, and that it was a tragedy all around, good kid, very sorry, etc, etc, ...family pays a lot in lawyer fees and some payment to girls' families. And he'll go on to college a lityle later.

You are dreaming if you think he'll get 15+years.

You sound like their family attorney. Are they that wealthy?

If they can afford a new BMW, they will put all their $$ on a good attorney who will make the case I just outlined.

It was a 2018. Where are you getting that it was a new BMW?

BMW 5 series from 2018 (for example 550ix) is around 40K if the car is in a solid condition. If they can afford a 40K car for their 18-years old son, they can find a good attorney.

The story goes he saved fir the past 2 years to afford the down payment himself. None of that matters now.

No, sorry, it was a hand me down. You don't know what you're talking about.

Why would a hand me down have temp tags? It was just purchased recently. Just because it doesn’t fit your narrative doesn’t mean it’s BS.

if they changed the registration to add his name and ordered new license plates they would have a temp tag. We just did this with my son’s car.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:As of its 5:22 p.m. update, the Post is identifying the teen pedestrians as Oakton HS students. Here is part of that article:

Two Oakton High School students were killed and another was critically injured Tuesday when two vehicles collided and spun out of control at an intersection where the youths were walking, Fairfax County police said.

The victims, all teenage girls, were a block from their school, police said. This is the final week of the school year at Oakton and Tuesday was an early-release day, with classes ending at 11:30 a.m., shortly before the fatal accident.

The crash occurred about 11:46 a.m. at Blake Lane and Five Oaks Road in the Oakton area, on the opposite side of Route 66 from the school, according to Maj. Eli Cory, a police spokesman. He said the three girls, whom he did not identify, were taken to a hospital, where authorities later said two of them were pronounced dead. He said the third student’s injuries were “life-threatening."


The driver and a passenger from one of the vehicles, who also are juveniles, were injured but not seriously, he said. It was unclear if they also went to Oakton.

Cory said a BMW was traveling south on Blake “at a very high rate of speed” while the driver of a Toyota 4Runner, headed north on Blake, was attempting to turn left onto Five Oaks. The BMW stuck the 4Runner, then “ricocheted off the side of the road, hit the three pedestrians, hit a pole on the side of the road and finally came to rest down the street,” he said.



The three girls were walking along Blake and had just crossed Five Oaks before the 4Runner’s driver tried to make the turn, Cory said.

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The article does continue after that but that's the gist of it. So sad about the students killed--we have dear friends with an Oakton grad this year and this is sickening.

Everyone harping on the BMW driver, sounds like 4Runner misjudged the timing needed for the left hand turn directly in front of the BMW. BMW had no time to stop - even if they weren't speeding.

I was wondering the same thing. I am unfamiliar with the intersection, so I did not know if the 4Runner misjudged the turn, or was waiting for the turn as the girls crossed the road, all looked clear and then the BMW came up really fast. Regardless, tragic for all involved.

I live near the area and I've used that intersection a lot (from the direction of the BMW) b/c my kid went to Mosby Woods (which is on Five Oaks). I drove on Blake today to get back home. I was in the traffic direction that the Toyota 4 Runner would have travelled (going north on Blake). I made a mental note of what the sight line is like for the Toyota as it prepared to turn left.

Basically, there is one block of visual sight line in the lane that the Toyota had to cross. So, the Toyota driver would have been able to see a block worth of traffic coming at him. And anyone coming south (such as the BMW) would have a full block view ahead toward the intersection of Black and Five Oaks. (prior to that, there is a bit of a dip/hill). Anyone driving south (such as the BMW) would have had one full block of driving time to slow down if a car was in the process of turning across its lane. If the BMW/south bound car was going 55 mph, there would be plenty of time to slow down significantly -- even if it made some impact.

The fact that the crash was SOOO forceful that the BMW ricocheted off, hit the girls and still had enough force to take out a wooden pole, suggests that the BMW had quite a bit of velocity heading into the crash. We know that the Toyota could not have been going very fast because it just started moving after a full stop. I would think the Toyota couldn't have been going more than 15 mph.

Accident reconstruction experts will determine how much speed the BMW had. But, if they had been speeding only 20 mph over the limit, there was enough time (based on the sightline) to slow down or stop.

I know a member of the VA State Trooper's accident reconstruction team. They are always clear that what you think you know from a glance at the scene of the accident is often not an accurate accounting of what took place.

They are trained to slowly and painstakingly reconstruct the scene of the accident. It's a difficult job and I thank all of those who take it on. Imagine the images they see and live with, all so that justice can be served.

We can guess all we want. It amounts to just that, a guess.

Yes, we here on DCUM are not experts in accident reconstruction. We do have eyes.

The police seem to be focussing pretty squarely on the 18 yr old BMW driver. See the release below. They say:

"Details of the investigation will be presented to the Office of the Commonwealth’s Attorney to determine the appropriate charges on all parties involved. Once charged and arrested, the identity of the BMW driver will be released. "

https://fcpdnews.wordpress.com/2022/06/08/two-pedestrians-succumb-to-injuries-in-crash/


I mean -- the Fairfax County Police Dept. isn't saying "hold your judgment until we figure this out." They are clearly thinking about what charges can be made AGAINST THE BMW DRIVER, and not what charges can be made against the Toyota driver.

He is still somebody baby, and I feel very bad for him, I just bad happens to him and we can learn from our mistakes. I know the kid and he is a great smart kid, had over a 3.5 GPA.

A great "smart" kid should have the common sense to understand the consequences of not obeying the rules of the road, speed limits. This driver was driving so fast his car ended up that far away from impact. Of all adjectives to sympathize with this driver, Great and Smart??????? I am aghast you're calling this simply a mistake. Yes, he's somebody's baby. But it reflects very poorly on the parents if they did not teach him about being a responsible driver.

Yep.
All my sympathy goes to the girls who were killed - and their families, of course. I’ve got nothing left over for that a$$hole.

I have sympathy left over. It's terrible all around. It's not like the driver was a Putin-style murderous dictator responsible for killing tens of thousands of people.

Well good for you. Anyone with a blatant disregard for the safety of others doesn’t get my sympathy. This accident was 100% preventable - not a freak occurrence.

[Anonymous]

When you order new plates, you don’t get temp tags. You get a two month extension sticker (current month on your plate plus 2 months) while you wait for your new plates.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As of its 5:22 p.m. update, the Post is identifying the teen pedestrians as Oakton HS students. Here is part of that article:

Two Oakton High School students were killed and another was critically injured Tuesday when two vehicles collided and spun out of control at an intersection where the youths were walking, Fairfax County police said.

The victims, all teenage girls, were a block from their school, police said. This is the final week of the school year at Oakton and Tuesday was an early-release day, with classes ending at 11:30 a.m., shortly before the fatal accident.

The crash occurred about 11:46 a.m. at Blake Lane and Five Oaks Road in the Oakton area, on the opposite side of Route 66 from the school, according to Maj. Eli Cory, a police spokesman. He said the three girls, whom he did not identify, were taken to a hospital, where authorities later said two of them were pronounced dead. He said the third student’s injuries were “life-threatening."


The driver and a passenger from one of the vehicles, who also are juveniles, were injured but not seriously, he said. It was unclear if they also went to Oakton.

Cory said a BMW was traveling south on Blake “at a very high rate of speed” while the driver of a Toyota 4Runner, headed north on Blake, was attempting to turn left onto Five Oaks. The BMW stuck the 4Runner, then “ricocheted off the side of the road, hit the three pedestrians, hit a pole on the side of the road and finally came to rest down the street,” he said.



The three girls were walking along Blake and had just crossed Five Oaks before the 4Runner’s driver tried to make the turn, Cory said.

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The article does continue after that but that's the gist of it. So sad about the students killed--we have dear friends with an Oakton grad this year and this is sickening.

Everyone harping on the BMW driver, sounds like 4Runner misjudged the timing needed for the left hand turn directly in front of the BMW. BMW had no time to stop - even if they weren't speeding.

I was wondering the same thing. I am unfamiliar with the intersection, so I did not know if the 4Runner misjudged the turn, or was waiting for the turn as the girls crossed the road, all looked clear and then the BMW came up really fast. Regardless, tragic for all involved.

I live near the area and I've used that intersection a lot (from the direction of the BMW) b/c my kid went to Mosby Woods (which is on Five Oaks). I drove on Blake today to get back home. I was in the traffic direction that the Toyota 4 Runner would have travelled (going north on Blake). I made a mental note of what the sight line is like for the Toyota as it prepared to turn left.

Basically, there is one block of visual sight line in the lane that the Toyota had to cross. So, the Toyota driver would have been able to see a block worth of traffic coming at him. And anyone coming south (such as the BMW) would have a full block view ahead toward the intersection of Black and Five Oaks. (prior to that, there is a bit of a dip/hill). Anyone driving south (such as the BMW) would have had one full block of driving time to slow down if a car was in the process of turning across its lane. If the BMW/south bound car was going 55 mph, there would be plenty of time to slow down significantly -- even if it made some impact.

The fact that the crash was SOOO forceful that the BMW ricocheted off, hit the girls and still had enough force to take out a wooden pole, suggests that the BMW had quite a bit of velocity heading into the crash. We know that the Toyota could not have been going very fast because it just started moving after a full stop. I would think the Toyota couldn't have been going more than 15 mph.

Accident reconstruction experts will determine how much speed the BMW had. But, if they had been speeding only 20 mph over the limit, there was enough time (based on the sightline) to slow down or stop.

I know a member of the VA State Trooper's accident reconstruction team. They are always clear that what you think you know from a glance at the scene of the accident is often not an accurate accounting of what took place.

They are trained to slowly and painstakingly reconstruct the scene of the accident. It's a difficult job and I thank all of those who take it on. Imagine the images they see and live with, all so that justice can be served.

We can guess all we want. It amounts to just that, a guess.

Yes, we here on DCUM are not experts in accident reconstruction. We do have eyes.

The police seem to be focussing pretty squarely on the 18 yr old BMW driver. See the release below. They say:

"Details of the investigation will be presented to the Office of the Commonwealth’s Attorney to determine the appropriate charges on all parties involved. Once charged and arrested, the identity of the BMW driver will be released. "

https://fcpdnews.wordpress.com/2022/06/08/two-pedestrians-succumb-to-injuries-in-crash/


I mean -- the Fairfax County Police Dept. isn't saying "hold your judgment until we figure this out." They are clearly thinking about what charges can be made AGAINST THE BMW DRIVER, and not what charges can be made against the Toyota driver.

He is still somebody baby, and I feel very bad for him, I just bad happens to him and we can learn from our mistakes. I know the kid and he is a great smart kid, had over a 3.5 GPA.

A great "smart" kid should have the common sense to understand the consequences of not obeying the rules of the road, speed limits. This driver was driving so fast his car ended up that far away from impact. Of all adjectives to sympathize with this driver, Great and Smart??????? I am aghast you're calling this simply a mistake. Yes, he's somebody's baby. But it reflects very poorly on the parents if they did not teach him about being a responsible driver.

How about the fact that his only concern after the accident was his dad getting mad at him for wrecking the car...

The girls were somebody's baby as well and they are DEAD now!

Having a 3.5 GPA means nothing now...

Shame on the passengers who flee the scene too!

[Anonymous]

I can't stop thinking of the families....what they are going through and dealing with.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I can't stop thinking of the families....what they are going through and dealing with.

Same...anytime when there's a tragic and sudden accident especially doing normal routine stuff - like in Rockville awhile back when that little boy killed while waiting for the school bus with his dad and a car jumped the curb and hit him. Or the stray bullets and innocent bystanders/kids playing outside killed in DC

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DP - I do feel bad for everyone involved. The driver of the BMW didn’t intend to kill anyone. And the driver and his/her family will have to live with the consequences of the stupidity and recklessness of the actions forever. Of course, I feel immeasurably worse for the pedestrians and their families who did nothing wrong.

And I feel horrible for the Toyota driver, who was probably thinking if I just hadn’t taken the left turn… Poor guy.

For sure. He's thinking... if only I had left home 2 min. earlier... or 2 min. later, these two girls would be alive today.

so now is his fault?

He turned into the path of an oncoming car - a car with the right away.

BMW lost right of way by speeding. It's in the virginia code posted upthread.

Absolutely. Likely 2 charges of vehicular manslaughter, charge of reckless driving, speeding, and operating in an unsafe manner. Perhaps 15-20 years incarcerated.

I highly doubt that re: jail time. I'd expect a year or two at most, plus community service, and some period of probation. I wouldn't be surprised if he only had a few months of jail or home confinement. BMW driver will be portrayed as having a bright future, and that it was a tragedy all around, good kid, very sorry, etc, etc, ...family pays a lot in lawyer fees and some payment to girls' families. And he'll go on to college a lityle later.

You are dreaming if you think he'll get 15+years.

A similar incident in MD sent the young driver to jail for 12 years.

This seems about right. 10 years or so.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The driver of the Toyota was expecting a car coming up at 30 to 40 mph, not 80 to 100!

THIS!

I'm sickened by seeing posts here piling on the Toyota driver for, gasp, trying to make a left turn. Who are these PPs acting as if the BMW going 80 to 100 shares any culpability here?

I guess none of those here who are trying to shift blame onto the Toyota driver have ever had the experience of starting to make a turn, seeing a vehicle in the distance and judging that there is time and space to make the turn -- only to realize suddenly that the vehicle is going FAR faster than you could tell visually at the distance involved. Looking at an oncoming car, if it's far enough away, you cannot necessarily judge that it's speeding at that point, you just see it and judge based on distance, not knowing that the vehicle will close the distance gap between you much, much faster than it appears it will.

The investigation will tell for sure if the Toyota driver has any culpability, but as others have noted, the high speed of the BMW will be key. If the BMW had not been speeding so very fast, it likely might not have bounced off the Toyota and gone up on the sidewalk where it killed those poor teens.

I can’t believe some of you are blaming the Toyota driver. Reminds me of the driver speeding on River Road who killed 3 member of a Whitman family making a left turn.

+1. It's a weird DCUM phenomenon that blame typically is assigned to the least likely and culpable party. I'd be surprised if the Toyota driver, while paused to wait for the kids to cross so he could complete his left hand turn, even saw the BMW coming at 80-100 MPH. It's all preliminary and we are all speculating, but reports so far indicate that the accident was due to excessive speed of the BMW.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As of its 5:22 p.m. update, the Post is identifying the teen pedestrians as Oakton HS students. Here is part of that article:

Two Oakton High School students were killed and another was critically injured Tuesday when two vehicles collided and spun out of control at an intersection where the youths were walking, Fairfax County police said.

The victims, all teenage girls, were a block from their school, police said. This is the final week of the school year at Oakton and Tuesday was an early-release day, with classes ending at 11:30 a.m., shortly before the fatal accident.

The crash occurred about 11:46 a.m. at Blake Lane and Five Oaks Road in the Oakton area, on the opposite side of Route 66 from the school, according to Maj. Eli Cory, a police spokesman. He said the three girls, whom he did not identify, were taken to a hospital, where authorities later said two of them were pronounced dead. He said the third student’s injuries were “life-threatening."


NP. I don’t know any of the families involved in this horrific incident but I am the parent of two teens who attend Madison High School just north of Oakton. Anyone with teens, especially teen boys, and has half a heart and an ounce of honesty would have sympathy for the girls AND the boys involved. Teenage boys do dumb a$$ things. There but for the Grace of God goes any parent of a teen driver or walker. I’m praying for all the families.
The driver and a passenger from one of the vehicles, who also are juveniles, were injured but not seriously, he said. It was unclear if they also went to Oakton.

Cory said a BMW was traveling south on Blake “at a very high rate of speed” while the driver of a Toyota 4Runner, headed north on Blake, was attempting to turn left onto Five Oaks. The BMW stuck the 4Runner, then “ricocheted off the side of the road, hit the three pedestrians, hit a pole on the side of the road and finally came to rest down the street,” he said.



The three girls were walking along Blake and had just crossed Five Oaks before the 4Runner’s driver tried to make the turn, Cory said.

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The article does continue after that but that's the gist of it. So sad about the students killed--we have dear friends with an Oakton grad this year and this is sickening.

Everyone harping on the BMW driver, sounds like 4Runner misjudged the timing needed for the left hand turn directly in front of the BMW. BMW had no time to stop - even if they weren't speeding.

I was wondering the same thing. I am unfamiliar with the intersection, so I did not know if the 4Runner misjudged the turn, or was waiting for the turn as the girls crossed the road, all looked clear and then the BMW came up really fast. Regardless, tragic for all involved.

I live near the area and I've used that intersection a lot (from the direction of the BMW) b/c my kid went to Mosby Woods (which is on Five Oaks). I drove on Blake today to get back home. I was in the traffic direction that the Toyota 4 Runner would have travelled (going north on Blake). I made a mental note of what the sight line is like for the Toyota as it prepared to turn left.

Basically, there is one block of visual sight line in the lane that the Toyota had to cross. So, the Toyota driver would have been able to see a block worth of traffic coming at him. And anyone coming south (such as the BMW) would have a full block view ahead toward the intersection of Black and Five Oaks. (prior to that, there is a bit of a dip/hill). Anyone driving south (such as the BMW) would have had one full block of driving time to slow down if a car was in the process of turning across its lane. If the BMW/south bound car was going 55 mph, there would be plenty of time to slow down significantly -- even if it made some impact.

The fact that the crash was SOOO forceful that the BMW ricocheted off, hit the girls and still had enough force to take out a wooden pole, suggests that the BMW had quite a bit of velocity heading into the crash. We know that the Toyota could not have been going very fast because it just started moving after a full stop. I would think the Toyota couldn't have been going more than 15 mph.

Accident reconstruction experts will determine how much speed the BMW had. But, if they had been speeding only 20 mph over the limit, there was enough time (based on the sightline) to slow down or stop.

I know a member of the VA State Trooper's accident reconstruction team. They are always clear that what you think you know from a glance at the scene of the accident is often not an accurate accounting of what took place.

They are trained to slowly and painstakingly reconstruct the scene of the accident. It's a difficult job and I thank all of those who take it on. Imagine the images they see and live with, all so that justice can be served.

We can guess all we want. It amounts to just that, a guess.

Yes, we here on DCUM are not experts in accident reconstruction. We do have eyes.

The police seem to be focussing pretty squarely on the 18 yr old BMW driver. See the release below. They say:

"Details of the investigation will be presented to the Office of the Commonwealth’s Attorney to determine the appropriate charges on all parties involved. Once charged and arrested, the identity of the BMW driver will be released. "

https://fcpdnews.wordpress.com/2022/06/08/two-pedestrians-succumb-to-injuries-in-crash/


I mean -- the Fairfax County Police Dept. isn't saying "hold your judgment until we figure this out." They are clearly thinking about what charges can be made AGAINST THE BMW DRIVER, and not what charges can be made against the Toyota driver.

He is still somebody baby, and I feel very bad for him, I just bad happens to him and we can learn from our mistakes. I know the kid and he is a great smart kid, had over a 3.5 GPA.

A great "smart" kid should have the common sense to understand the consequences of not obeying the rules of the road, speed limits. This driver was driving so fast his car ended up that far away from impact. Of all adjectives to sympathize with this driver, Great and Smart??????? I am aghast you're calling this simply a mistake. Yes, he's somebody's baby. But it reflects very poorly on the parents if they did not teach him about being a responsible driver.

Yep.
All my sympathy goes to the girls who were killed - and their families, of course. I’ve got nothing left over for that a$$hole.

I have sympathy left over. It's terrible all around. It's not like the driver was a Putin-style murderous dictator responsible for killing tens of thousands of people.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DP - I do feel bad for everyone involved. The driver of the BMW didn’t intend to kill anyone. And the driver and his/her family will have to live with the consequences of the stupidity and recklessness of the actions forever. Of course, I feel immeasurably worse for the pedestrians and their families who did nothing wrong.

Yes, I do feel bad for everyone too. BUT the driver had a reckless disregard for the safety of others if he's driving that fast. And he definitely INTENDED to speed. No one forced him to speed. He deserves lots of jail time for his cavalier attitude endangering others. Do you want a society where vehicular manslaughter goes unpunished or gets a slap on their wrist?

The driver of the 4runner needs to be investigated too. How could they not see the other car coming towards them so quickly? Why did they turn right in front of the BMW??

I actually just had to drive through the intersection of Blake and Sutton. You cannot see cars at the Blake/Five Oaks light from there due to a slight rise then fall in the road. So I would think that the driver of the 4Runner couldn’t see over that hill from the opposite direction, either, and judged that there was time to turn safely even if oncoming traffic crested the hill at a reasonable speed. Which 80-100 mph is not. I can absolutely believe that the 4Runner never saw the BMW coming until it was too late, but accident reconstruction will tell for sure.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As of its 5:22 p.m. update, the Post is identifying the teen pedestrians as Oakton HS students. Here is part of that article:

Two Oakton High School students were killed and another was critically injured Tuesday when two vehicles collided and spun out of control at an intersection where the youths were walking, Fairfax County police said.

The victims, all teenage girls, were a block from their school, police said. This is the final week of the school year at Oakton and Tuesday was an early-release day, with classes ending at 11:30 a.m., shortly before the fatal accident.

The crash occurred about 11:46 a.m. at Blake Lane and Five Oaks Road in the Oakton area, on the opposite side of Route 66 from the school, according to Maj. Eli Cory, a police spokesman. He said the three girls, whom he did not identify, were taken to a hospital, where authorities later said two of them were pronounced dead. He said the third student’s injuries were “life-threatening."


The driver and a passenger from one of the vehicles, who also are juveniles, were injured but not seriously, he said. It was unclear if they also went to Oakton.

Cory said a BMW was traveling south on Blake “at a very high rate of speed” while the driver of a Toyota 4Runner, headed north on Blake, was attempting to turn left onto Five Oaks. The BMW stuck the 4Runner, then “ricocheted off the side of the road, hit the three pedestrians, hit a pole on the side of the road and finally came to rest down the street,” he said.



The three girls were walking along Blake and had just crossed Five Oaks before the 4Runner’s driver tried to make the turn, Cory said.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The article does continue after that but that's the gist of it. So sad about the students killed--we have dear friends with an Oakton grad this year and this is sickening.

Everyone harping on the BMW driver, sounds like 4Runner misjudged the timing needed for the left hand turn directly in front of the BMW. BMW had no time to stop - even if they weren't speeding.

I was wondering the same thing. I am unfamiliar with the intersection, so I did not know if the 4Runner misjudged the turn, or was waiting for the turn as the girls crossed the road, all looked clear and then the BMW came up really fast. Regardless, tragic for all involved.

I live near the area and I've used that intersection a lot (from the direction of the BMW) b/c my kid went to Mosby Woods (which is on Five Oaks). I drove on Blake today to get back home. I was in the traffic direction that the Toyota 4 Runner would have travelled (going north on Blake). I made a mental note of what the sight line is like for the Toyota as it prepared to turn left.

Basically, there is one block of visual sight line in the lane that the Toyota had to cross. So, the Toyota driver would have been able to see a block worth of traffic coming at him. And anyone coming south (such as the BMW) would have a full block view ahead toward the intersection of Black and Five Oaks. (prior to that, there is a bit of a dip/hill). Anyone driving south (such as the BMW) would have had one full block of driving time to slow down if a car was in the process of turning across its lane. If the BMW/south bound car was going 55 mph, there would be plenty of time to slow down significantly -- even if it made some impact.

The fact that the crash was SOOO forceful that the BMW ricocheted off, hit the girls and still had enough force to take out a wooden pole, suggests that the BMW had quite a bit of velocity heading into the crash. We know that the Toyota could not have been going very fast because it just started moving after a full stop. I would think the Toyota couldn't have been going more than 15 mph.

Accident reconstruction experts will determine how much speed the BMW had. But, if they had been speeding only 20 mph over the limit, there was enough time (based on the sightline) to slow down or stop.

I know a member of the VA State Trooper's accident reconstruction team. They are always clear that what you think you know from a glance at the scene of the accident is often not an accurate accounting of what took place.

They are trained to slowly and painstakingly reconstruct the scene of the accident. It's a difficult job and I thank all of those who take it on. Imagine the images they see and live with, all so that justice can be served.

We can guess all we want. It amounts to just that, a guess.

Yes, we here on DCUM are not experts in accident reconstruction. We do have eyes.

The police seem to be focussing pretty squarely on the 18 yr old BMW driver. See the release below. They say:

"Details of the investigation will be presented to the Office of the Commonwealth’s Attorney to determine the appropriate charges on all parties involved. Once charged and arrested, the identity of the BMW driver will be released. "

https://fcpdnews.wordpress.com/2022/06/08/two-pedestrians-succumb-to-injuries-in-crash/


I mean -- the Fairfax County Police Dept. isn't saying "hold your judgment until we figure this out." They are clearly thinking about what charges can be made AGAINST THE BMW DRIVER, and not what charges can be made against the Toyota driver.

He is still somebody baby, and I feel very bad for him, I just bad happens to him and we can learn from our mistakes. I know the kid and he is a great smart kid, had over a 3.5 GPA.

A great "smart" kid should have the common sense to understand the consequences of not obeying the rules of the road, speed limits. This driver was driving so fast his car ended up that far away from impact. Of all adjectives to sympathize with this driver, Great and Smart??????? I am aghast you're calling this simply a mistake. Yes, he's somebody's baby. But it reflects very poorly on the parents if they did not teach him about being a responsible driver.

How about the fact that his only concern after the accident was his dad getting mad at him for wrecking the car...

The girls were somebody's baby as well and they are DEAD now!

Having a 3.5 GPA means nothing now...

Shame on the passengers who flee the scene too!

I have zero sympathy for the boy who was driving, but in regards to the bolded, he was probably in shock and had no idea the girls were dead. He might not even have known he hit anyone, or he blocked it out, or something. I know immediately after I was in a very bad accident (not my fault), I had no idea what had happened. I have no recollection of the time between when I was hit and I was handed a bottle of water by the business owner that helped me.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:This reckless teen driver had a BMW. The other reckless FCPS kid who killed the 62 year old woman drove an Audi. Stop letting kids drive these cars.

I cannot believe those poor kids doing nothing more than walking home from school are now dead.

Any car can do 100mph. Any car can be driven recklessly. It isn’t the car. It’s the driver.

Try getting a 20 year old Toyota Camry to accelerate to 100mph in one residential block. Yes, that's what I drove in high school. It shook a little at high speeds.

Now I'm not saying every kid needs to drive a beater, but I don't think any teenager should be given a sports or luxury vehicle.

The 4Runner turned directly in front of the BMW.

If the BMW really was speeding that excessively, the BMW driver will still be charged. Similar accident happened last month in Loudoun and the druver doing 75 in a 45 was the one charged with vehicular manslaughter because of the excessive speed.

That's right. Speed and dangerous driving prevented the BMW from being able to avoid an accident. Also happened on River Rd in Bethesda with a 115mph BMW driver hitting a car entering the road and killed 3. That driver got 12 years.

It also changes your judgement. When you turn left you judge if you have time based on where oncoming cars are. Even if the car appears far away a car going 100 gives you little to no time. Just like what happened in the river road accident.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This reckless teen driver had a BMW. The other reckless FCPS kid who killed the 62 year old woman drove an Audi. Stop letting kids drive these cars.

I cannot believe those poor kids doing nothing more than walking home from school are now dead.

Any car can do 100mph. Any car can be driven recklessly. It isn’t the car. It’s the driver.

Try getting a 20 year old Toyota Camry to accelerate to 100mph in one residential block. Yes, that's what I drove in high school. It shook a little at high speeds.

Now I'm not saying every kid needs to drive a beater, but I don't think any teenager should be given a sports or luxury vehicle.

The 4Runner turned directly in front of the BMW.

If the BMW was not speeding, it would not have ricocheted off the car and hit pedestrians. SPEED KILLS. If you are going to speed limit, you have time to react. OR, it would have been a 2 car accident with no pedestrian deaths.

The Post article describes the accident well. A witness said the BMW was driving really fast and blaring its horn as it approached the intersection where the Toyota has waited for the girls to cross. The bmw should have been driving slower so it could brake.

Blaring his horn when he should have been braking. He was just too important cruising at 80 MPH in his brand new BMW that daddy bought him. He couldn't be concerned with actually braking for anybody.

I don't even need to know him to know that this kid probably is more upset that his car is totaled than the fact that he has cut two lives short. I hope he gets significant jail time.

The original article quote the man whose lawn he sat on while waiting for the cops as "worried about how his dad would react to the crash." This while three girls are lying dead/dying on the pavement. It's just jaw dropping.

In fairness to the driver, he might not have realized what he'd done at that point, besides having totaled the car. He hit the girls after he'd already lost control of the car, and they weren't originally part of the picture since they had been on the sidewalk. It says he was (unsurprisingly) in shock after the incident, and he might not have taken the time to appraise the situation.

In fairness to the driver....he is responsible for the vehicular massacre of two 9th grade girls.

+1. Seriously! Fairness to the driver?! In fairness to the victims of this tragedy, they TOO didn't have time to appraise the situation, which was a car recklessly flying at them at approximately 80+ miles per hour. They had no chance to react. And that includes the Toyota 4Runner driver, from what we can tell so far.

[Anonymous]

Have there been any charges yet?