Oakton crash

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As of its 5:22 p.m. update, the Post is identifying the teen pedestrians as Oakton HS students. Here is part of that article:

Two Oakton High School students were killed and another was critically injured Tuesday when two vehicles collided and spun out of control at an intersection where the youths were walking, Fairfax County police said.

The victims, all teenage girls, were a block from their school, police said. This is the final week of the school year at Oakton and Tuesday was an early-release day, with classes ending at 11:30 a.m., shortly before the fatal accident.

The crash occurred about 11:46 a.m. at Blake Lane and Five Oaks Road in the Oakton area, on the opposite side of Route 66 from the school, according to Maj. Eli Cory, a police spokesman. He said the three girls, whom he did not identify, were taken to a hospital, where authorities later said two of them were pronounced dead. He said the third student’s injuries were “life-threatening."


The driver and a passenger from one of the vehicles, who also are juveniles, were injured but not seriously, he said. It was unclear if they also went to Oakton.

Cory said a BMW was traveling south on Blake “at a very high rate of speed” while the driver of a Toyota 4Runner, headed north on Blake, was attempting to turn left onto Five Oaks. The BMW stuck the 4Runner, then “ricocheted off the side of the road, hit the three pedestrians, hit a pole on the side of the road and finally came to rest down the street,” he said.



The three girls were walking along Blake and had just crossed Five Oaks before the 4Runner’s driver tried to make the turn, Cory said.

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The article does continue after that but that's the gist of it. So sad about the students killed--we have dear friends with an Oakton grad this year and this is sickening.

Everyone harping on the BMW driver, sounds like 4Runner misjudged the timing needed for the left hand turn directly in front of the BMW. BMW had no time to stop - even if they weren't speeding.

I was wondering the same thing. I am unfamiliar with the intersection, so I did not know if the 4Runner misjudged the turn, or was waiting for the turn as the girls crossed the road, all looked clear and then the BMW came up really fast. Regardless, tragic for all involved.

I live near the area and I've used that intersection a lot (from the direction of the BMW) b/c my kid went to Mosby Woods (which is on Five Oaks). I drove on Blake today to get back home. I was in the traffic direction that the Toyota 4 Runner would have travelled (going north on Blake). I made a mental note of what the sight line is like for the Toyota as it prepared to turn left.

Basically, there is one block of visual sight line in the lane that the Toyota had to cross. So, the Toyota driver would have been able to see a block worth of traffic coming at him. And anyone coming south (such as the BMW) would have a full block view ahead toward the intersection of Black and Five Oaks. (prior to that, there is a bit of a dip/hill). Anyone driving south (such as the BMW) would have had one full block of driving time to slow down if a car was in the process of turning across its lane. If the BMW/south bound car was going 55 mph, there would be plenty of time to slow down significantly -- even if it made some impact.

The fact that the crash was SOOO forceful that the BMW ricocheted off, hit the girls and still had enough force to take out a wooden pole, suggests that the BMW had quite a bit of velocity heading into the crash. We know that the Toyota could not have been going very fast because it just started moving after a full stop. I would think the Toyota couldn't have been going more than 15 mph.

Accident reconstruction experts will determine how much speed the BMW had. But, if they had been speeding only 20 mph over the limit, there was enough time (based on the sightline) to slow down or stop.

I know a member of the VA State Trooper's accident reconstruction team. They are always clear that what you think you know from a glance at the scene of the accident is often not an accurate accounting of what took place.

They are trained to slowly and painstakingly reconstruct the scene of the accident. It's a difficult job and I thank all of those who take it on. Imagine the images they see and live with, all so that justice can be served.

We can guess all we want. It amounts to just that, a guess.

Yes, we here on DCUM are not experts in accident reconstruction. We do have eyes.

The police seem to be focussing pretty squarely on the 18 yr old BMW driver. See the release below. They say:

"Details of the investigation will be presented to the Office of the Commonwealth’s Attorney to determine the appropriate charges on all parties involved. Once charged and arrested, the identity of the BMW driver will be released. "

https://fcpdnews.wordpress.com/2022/06/08/two-pedestrians-succumb-to-injuries-in-crash/


I mean -- the Fairfax County Police Dept. isn't saying "hold your judgment until we figure this out." They are clearly thinking about what charges can be made AGAINST THE BMW DRIVER, and not what charges can be made against the Toyota driver.

He is still somebody baby, and I feel very bad for him, I just bad happens to him and we can learn from our mistakes. I know the kid and he is a great smart kid, had over a 3.5 GPA.

A great "smart" kid should have the common sense to understand the consequences of not obeying the rules of the road, speed limits. This driver was driving so fast his car ended up that far away from impact. Of all adjectives to sympathize with this driver, Great and Smart??????? I am aghast you're calling this simply a mistake. Yes, he's somebody's baby. But it reflects very poorly on the parents if they did not teach him about being a responsible driver.

[Anonymous]

10 to 15 Years in Red Onion State would be justice for the poor girls.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As of its 5:22 p.m. update, the Post is identifying the teen pedestrians as Oakton HS students. Here is part of that article:

Two Oakton High School students were killed and another was critically injured Tuesday when two vehicles collided and spun out of control at an intersection where the youths were walking, Fairfax County police said.

The victims, all teenage girls, were a block from their school, police said. This is the final week of the school year at Oakton and Tuesday was an early-release day, with classes ending at 11:30 a.m., shortly before the fatal accident.

The crash occurred about 11:46 a.m. at Blake Lane and Five Oaks Road in the Oakton area, on the opposite side of Route 66 from the school, according to Maj. Eli Cory, a police spokesman. He said the three girls, whom he did not identify, were taken to a hospital, where authorities later said two of them were pronounced dead. He said the third student’s injuries were “life-threatening."


The driver and a passenger from one of the vehicles, who also are juveniles, were injured but not seriously, he said. It was unclear if they also went to Oakton.

Cory said a BMW was traveling south on Blake “at a very high rate of speed” while the driver of a Toyota 4Runner, headed north on Blake, was attempting to turn left onto Five Oaks. The BMW stuck the 4Runner, then “ricocheted off the side of the road, hit the three pedestrians, hit a pole on the side of the road and finally came to rest down the street,” he said.



The three girls were walking along Blake and had just crossed Five Oaks before the 4Runner’s driver tried to make the turn, Cory said.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The article does continue after that but that's the gist of it. So sad about the students killed--we have dear friends with an Oakton grad this year and this is sickening.

Everyone harping on the BMW driver, sounds like 4Runner misjudged the timing needed for the left hand turn directly in front of the BMW. BMW had no time to stop - even if they weren't speeding.

I was wondering the same thing. I am unfamiliar with the intersection, so I did not know if the 4Runner misjudged the turn, or was waiting for the turn as the girls crossed the road, all looked clear and then the BMW came up really fast. Regardless, tragic for all involved.

I live near the area and I've used that intersection a lot (from the direction of the BMW) b/c my kid went to Mosby Woods (which is on Five Oaks). I drove on Blake today to get back home. I was in the traffic direction that the Toyota 4 Runner would have travelled (going north on Blake). I made a mental note of what the sight line is like for the Toyota as it prepared to turn left.

Basically, there is one block of visual sight line in the lane that the Toyota had to cross. So, the Toyota driver would have been able to see a block worth of traffic coming at him. And anyone coming south (such as the BMW) would have a full block view ahead toward the intersection of Black and Five Oaks. (prior to that, there is a bit of a dip/hill). Anyone driving south (such as the BMW) would have had one full block of driving time to slow down if a car was in the process of turning across its lane. If the BMW/south bound car was going 55 mph, there would be plenty of time to slow down significantly -- even if it made some impact.

The fact that the crash was SOOO forceful that the BMW ricocheted off, hit the girls and still had enough force to take out a wooden pole, suggests that the BMW had quite a bit of velocity heading into the crash. We know that the Toyota could not have been going very fast because it just started moving after a full stop. I would think the Toyota couldn't have been going more than 15 mph.

Accident reconstruction experts will determine how much speed the BMW had. But, if they had been speeding only 20 mph over the limit, there was enough time (based on the sightline) to slow down or stop.

I know a member of the VA State Trooper's accident reconstruction team. They are always clear that what you think you know from a glance at the scene of the accident is often not an accurate accounting of what took place.

They are trained to slowly and painstakingly reconstruct the scene of the accident. It's a difficult job and I thank all of those who take it on. Imagine the images they see and live with, all so that justice can be served.

We can guess all we want. It amounts to just that, a guess.

Yes, we here on DCUM are not experts in accident reconstruction. We do have eyes.

The police seem to be focussing pretty squarely on the 18 yr old BMW driver. See the release below. They say:

"Details of the investigation will be presented to the Office of the Commonwealth’s Attorney to determine the appropriate charges on all parties involved. Once charged and arrested, the identity of the BMW driver will be released. "

https://fcpdnews.wordpress.com/2022/06/08/two-pedestrians-succumb-to-injuries-in-crash/


I mean -- the Fairfax County Police Dept. isn't saying "hold your judgment until we figure this out." They are clearly thinking about what charges can be made AGAINST THE BMW DRIVER, and not what charges can be made against the Toyota driver.

He is still somebody baby, and I feel very bad for him, I just bad happens to him and we can learn from our mistakes. I know the kid and he is a great smart kid, had over a 3.5 GPA.

A great "smart" kid should have the common sense to understand the consequences of not obeying the rules of the road, speed limits. This driver was driving so fast his car ended up that far away from impact. Of all adjectives to sympathize with this driver, Great and Smart??????? I am aghast you're calling this simply a mistake. Yes, he's somebody's baby. But it reflects very poorly on the parents if they did not teach him about being a responsible driver.

Yep.
All my sympathy goes to the girls who were killed - and their families, of course. I’ve got nothing left over for that a$$hole.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Please stop trying to figure out how this young adult obtained this car. I don’t care if his parents bought it for him as a grad present or if he was taking Dad’s new (to him) car out for a spin. Maybe the driver is a drug dealer and paid for the car with a pile of cash. That’s relevant.

Irrelevant details and my concern is we collectively will lose focus on the actual crimes he committed.

+1 But that is a defense diversion so expect it to continue.

Affluenza

No. It’s whataboutism and is a common tactic used to deflect from the real situation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DP - I do feel bad for everyone involved. The driver of the BMW didn’t intend to kill anyone. And the driver and his/her family will have to live with the consequences of the stupidity and recklessness of the actions forever. Of course, I feel immeasurably worse for the pedestrians and their families who did nothing wrong.

Yes, I do feel bad for everyone too. BUT the driver had a reckless disregard for the safety of others if he's driving that fast. And he definitely INTENDED to speed. No one forced him to speed. He deserves lots of jail time for his cavalier attitude endangering others. Do you want a society where vehicular manslaughter goes unpunished or gets a slap on their wrist?

The driver of the 4runner needs to be investigated too. How could they not see the other car coming towards them so quickly? Why did they turn right in front of the BMW??

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DP - I do feel bad for everyone involved. The driver of the BMW didn’t intend to kill anyone. And the driver and his/her family will have to live with the consequences of the stupidity and recklessness of the actions forever. Of course, I feel immeasurably worse for the pedestrians and their families who did nothing wrong.

Yes, I do feel bad for everyone too. BUT the driver had a reckless disregard for the safety of others if he's driving that fast. And he definitely INTENDED to speed. No one forced him to speed. He deserves lots of jail time for his cavalier attitude endangering others. Do you want a society where vehicular manslaughter goes unpunished or gets a slap on their wrist?

The driver of the 4runner needs to be investigated too. How could they not see the other car coming towards them so quickly? Why did they turn right in front of the BMW??

The accident investigation will consider all drivers involved in the accident. In the meantime, your concern has already been raised and addressed upthread. Keep up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DP - I do feel bad for everyone involved. The driver of the BMW didn’t intend to kill anyone. And the driver and his/her family will have to live with the consequences of the stupidity and recklessness of the actions forever. Of course, I feel immeasurably worse for the pedestrians and their families who did nothing wrong.

Yes, I do feel bad for everyone too. BUT the driver had a reckless disregard for the safety of others if he's driving that fast. And he definitely INTENDED to speed. No one forced him to speed. He deserves lots of jail time for his cavalier attitude endangering others. Do you want a society where vehicular manslaughter goes unpunished or gets a slap on their wrist?

The driver of the 4runner needs to be investigated too. How could they not see the other car coming towards them so quickly? Why did they turn right in front of the BMW??

How many responses do you need -- at 100mph the car was out of sight before it was essentially at the intersection.

what I don't understand, if BMW had the wherewithal to honk his horn, why was he not applying the brakes??

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DP - I do feel bad for everyone involved. The driver of the BMW didn’t intend to kill anyone. And the driver and his/her family will have to live with the consequences of the stupidity and recklessness of the actions forever. Of course, I feel immeasurably worse for the pedestrians and their families who did nothing wrong.

Yes, I do feel bad for everyone too. BUT the driver had a reckless disregard for the safety of others if he's driving that fast. And he definitely INTENDED to speed. No one forced him to speed. He deserves lots of jail time for his cavalier attitude endangering others. Do you want a society where vehicular manslaughter goes unpunished or gets a slap on their wrist?

The driver of the 4runner needs to be investigated too. How could they not see the other car coming towards them so quickly? Why did they turn right in front of the BMW??

How many responses do you need -- at 100mph the car was out of sight before it was essentially at the intersection.

what I don't understand, if BMW had the wherewithal to honk his horn, why was he not applying the brakes??

That is what I was wondering. Pictures from the crash site do not show any type of skid marks which I would expect if someone was slamming on the brakes of a car at high speed. I am not a forensic expert so I am not certain that I should be seeing those type of skid marks but the witness reports mention the horn and not braking.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DP - I do feel bad for everyone involved. The driver of the BMW didn’t intend to kill anyone. And the driver and his/her family will have to live with the consequences of the stupidity and recklessness of the actions forever. Of course, I feel immeasurably worse for the pedestrians and their families who did nothing wrong.

Yes, I do feel bad for everyone too. BUT the driver had a reckless disregard for the safety of others if he's driving that fast. And he definitely INTENDED to speed. No one forced him to speed. He deserves lots of jail time for his cavalier attitude endangering others. Do you want a society where vehicular manslaughter goes unpunished or gets a slap on their wrist?

The driver of the 4runner needs to be investigated too. How could they not see the other car coming towards them so quickly? Why did they turn right in front of the BMW??

How many responses do you need -- at 100mph the car was out of sight before it was essentially at the intersection.

what I don't understand, if BMW had the wherewithal to honk his horn, why was he not applying the brakes??

That is what I was wondering. Pictures from the crash site do not show any type of skid marks which I would expect if someone was slamming on the brakes of a car at high speed. I am not a forensic expert so I am not certain that I should be seeing those type of skid marks but the witness reports mention the horn and not braking.

People often mention a lack of skid marks as evidence that a driver didn’t try to stop … I’m no expert, but with modern anti-lock brake systems I’m not sure that’s a valid correlation anymore. I was recently in a near-miss incident: approaching a green light at 45mph, a car coming from my right ran their red light and popped out into the intersection in front of me. I slammed on my brakes HARD - purse went flying off the backseat onto the floor, seatbelt locked up, kid in the backseat lost hold of the book in his hands. I could feel the ABS kicking in. When we stopped and got out (I was able to avoid the car, but it collided with another car in the lane next to me), there were no skid marks anywhere. A good ABS prevents the lock-up that leads to skidding, no matter how hard you’re hitting the brakes.

Not saying AT ALL that this kid did brake, I obviously have no information there. And I’m not defending the driver one bit. Just pointing out that with newer cars, lack of skid marks doesn’t necessarily mean there was no attempt at braking the way it used to.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DP - I do feel bad for everyone involved. The driver of the BMW didn’t intend to kill anyone. And the driver and his/her family will have to live with the consequences of the stupidity and recklessness of the actions forever. Of course, I feel immeasurably worse for the pedestrians and their families who did nothing wrong.

Yes, I do feel bad for everyone too. BUT the driver had a reckless disregard for the safety of others if he's driving that fast. And he definitely INTENDED to speed. No one forced him to speed. He deserves lots of jail time for his cavalier attitude endangering others. Do you want a society where vehicular manslaughter goes unpunished or gets a slap on their wrist?

The driver of the 4runner needs to be investigated too. How could they not see the other car coming towards them so quickly? Why did they turn right in front of the BMW??

The driver of the 4Runner was likely already in the process of turning/waiting when the BMW came speeding up. Have you never started a left turn and then saw pedestrians crossing? The girls had the right of way in the cross walk. If the BMW was going the legal speed limit, the driver should have been able to slow/stop and avoid the collison.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DP - I do feel bad for everyone involved. The driver of the BMW didn’t intend to kill anyone. And the driver and his/her family will have to live with the consequences of the stupidity and recklessness of the actions forever. Of course, I feel immeasurably worse for the pedestrians and their families who did nothing wrong.

Yes, I do feel bad for everyone too. BUT the driver had a reckless disregard for the safety of others if he's driving that fast. And he definitely INTENDED to speed. No one forced him to speed. He deserves lots of jail time for his cavalier attitude endangering others. Do you want a society where vehicular manslaughter goes unpunished or gets a slap on their wrist?

The driver of the 4runner needs to be investigated too. How could they not see the other car coming towards them so quickly? Why did they turn right in front of the BMW??

How many responses do you need -- at 100mph the car was out of sight before it was essentially at the intersection.

what I don't understand, if BMW had the wherewithal to honk his horn, why was he not applying the brakes??

That is what I was wondering. Pictures from the crash site do not show any type of skid marks which I would expect if someone was slamming on the brakes of a car at high speed. I am not a forensic expert so I am not certain that I should be seeing those type of skid marks but the witness reports mention the horn and not braking.

People often mention a lack of skid marks as evidence that a driver didn’t try to stop … I’m no expert, but with modern anti-lock brake systems I’m not sure that’s a valid correlation anymore. I was recently in a near-miss incident: approaching a green light at 45mph, a car coming from my right ran their red light and popped out into the intersection in front of me. I slammed on my brakes HARD - purse went flying off the backseat onto the floor, seatbelt locked up, kid in the backseat lost hold of the book in his hands. I could feel the ABS kicking in. When we stopped and got out (I was able to avoid the car, but it collided with another car in the lane next to me), there were no skid marks anywhere. A good ABS prevents the lock-up that leads to skidding, no matter how hard you’re hitting the brakes.

Not saying AT ALL that this kid did brake, I obviously have no information there. And I’m not defending the driver one bit. Just pointing out that with newer cars, lack of skid marks doesn’t necessarily mean there was no attempt at braking the way it used to.

Thanks, that is helpful info. I just think of people doing donuts and I seem to remember police measuring skid marks as part of their determination of speed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here is the link to donate to the victims family

https://www.gofundme.com/f/g2zvfk-gabrielas-funeral-expenses?qid=15e8aab4f9d9cfaf7fadb93c158b8b91

Serious question not trolling: How do we know this is legit? I don’t really understand how GoFundMe works.

Vienna/Oakton is one of those neighborhoods with many nice houses, but the direction where the girls headed is towards the smaller townhouses. I’d guess that their families may not be wealthy or probably not as wealthy as the BMW kid’s. Speculating, but I could see why the family need monetary support.

The community is still processing the tragedy that happened. It shook every one of us thinking that could be our kids, that could be us. We walk on that road every day. It’s senseless!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DP - I do feel bad for everyone involved. The driver of the BMW didn’t intend to kill anyone. And the driver and his/her family will have to live with the consequences of the stupidity and recklessness of the actions forever. Of course, I feel immeasurably worse for the pedestrians and their families who did nothing wrong.

Yes, I do feel bad for everyone too. BUT the driver had a reckless disregard for the safety of others if he's driving that fast. And he definitely INTENDED to speed. No one forced him to speed. He deserves lots of jail time for his cavalier attitude endangering others. Do you want a society where vehicular manslaughter goes unpunished or gets a slap on their wrist?

The driver of the 4runner needs to be investigated too. How could they not see the other car coming towards them so quickly? Why did they turn right in front of the BMW??

How many responses do you need -- at 100mph the car was out of sight before it was essentially at the intersection.

what I don't understand, if BMW had the wherewithal to honk his horn, why was he not applying the brakes??

That is what I was wondering. Pictures from the crash site do not show any type of skid marks which I would expect if someone was slamming on the brakes of a car at high speed. I am not a forensic expert so I am not certain that I should be seeing those type of skid marks but the witness reports mention the horn and not braking.

People often mention a lack of skid marks as evidence that a driver didn’t try to stop … I’m no expert, but with modern anti-lock brake systems I’m not sure that’s a valid correlation anymore. I was recently in a near-miss incident: approaching a green light at 45mph, a car coming from my right ran their red light and popped out into the intersection in front of me. I slammed on my brakes HARD - purse went flying off the backseat onto the floor, seatbelt locked up, kid in the backseat lost hold of the book in his hands. I could feel the ABS kicking in. When we stopped and got out (I was able to avoid the car, but it collided with another car in the lane next to me), there were no skid marks anywhere. A good ABS prevents the lock-up that leads to skidding, no matter how hard you’re hitting the brakes.

Not saying AT ALL that this kid did brake, I obviously have no information there. And I’m not defending the driver one bit. Just pointing out that with newer cars, lack of skid marks doesn’t necessarily mean there was no attempt at braking the way it used to.

I'm sure the investigators know this can happen.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As of its 5:22 p.m. update, the Post is identifying the teen pedestrians as Oakton HS students. Here is part of that article:

Two Oakton High School students were killed and another was critically injured Tuesday when two vehicles collided and spun out of control at an intersection where the youths were walking, Fairfax County police said.

The victims, all teenage girls, were a block from their school, police said. This is the final week of the school year at Oakton and Tuesday was an early-release day, with classes ending at 11:30 a.m., shortly before the fatal accident.

The crash occurred about 11:46 a.m. at Blake Lane and Five Oaks Road in the Oakton area, on the opposite side of Route 66 from the school, according to Maj. Eli Cory, a police spokesman. He said the three girls, whom he did not identify, were taken to a hospital, where authorities later said two of them were pronounced dead. He said the third student’s injuries were “life-threatening."


The driver and a passenger from one of the vehicles, who also are juveniles, were injured but not seriously, he said. It was unclear if they also went to Oakton.

Cory said a BMW was traveling south on Blake “at a very high rate of speed” while the driver of a Toyota 4Runner, headed north on Blake, was attempting to turn left onto Five Oaks. The BMW stuck the 4Runner, then “ricocheted off the side of the road, hit the three pedestrians, hit a pole on the side of the road and finally came to rest down the street,” he said.



The three girls were walking along Blake and had just crossed Five Oaks before the 4Runner’s driver tried to make the turn, Cory said.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The article does continue after that but that's the gist of it. So sad about the students killed--we have dear friends with an Oakton grad this year and this is sickening.

Everyone harping on the BMW driver, sounds like 4Runner misjudged the timing needed for the left hand turn directly in front of the BMW. BMW had no time to stop - even if they weren't speeding.

I was wondering the same thing. I am unfamiliar with the intersection, so I did not know if the 4Runner misjudged the turn, or was waiting for the turn as the girls crossed the road, all looked clear and then the BMW came up really fast. Regardless, tragic for all involved.

I live near the area and I've used that intersection a lot (from the direction of the BMW) b/c my kid went to Mosby Woods (which is on Five Oaks). I drove on Blake today to get back home. I was in the traffic direction that the Toyota 4 Runner would have travelled (going north on Blake). I made a mental note of what the sight line is like for the Toyota as it prepared to turn left.

Basically, there is one block of visual sight line in the lane that the Toyota had to cross. So, the Toyota driver would have been able to see a block worth of traffic coming at him. And anyone coming south (such as the BMW) would have a full block view ahead toward the intersection of Black and Five Oaks. (prior to that, there is a bit of a dip/hill). Anyone driving south (such as the BMW) would have had one full block of driving time to slow down if a car was in the process of turning across its lane. If the BMW/south bound car was going 55 mph, there would be plenty of time to slow down significantly -- even if it made some impact.

The fact that the crash was SOOO forceful that the BMW ricocheted off, hit the girls and still had enough force to take out a wooden pole, suggests that the BMW had quite a bit of velocity heading into the crash. We know that the Toyota could not have been going very fast because it just started moving after a full stop. I would think the Toyota couldn't have been going more than 15 mph.

Accident reconstruction experts will determine how much speed the BMW had. But, if they had been speeding only 20 mph over the limit, there was enough time (based on the sightline) to slow down or stop.

I know a member of the VA State Trooper's accident reconstruction team. They are always clear that what you think you know from a glance at the scene of the accident is often not an accurate accounting of what took place.

They are trained to slowly and painstakingly reconstruct the scene of the accident. It's a difficult job and I thank all of those who take it on. Imagine the images they see and live with, all so that justice can be served.

We can guess all we want. It amounts to just that, a guess.

Yes, we here on DCUM are not experts in accident reconstruction. We do have eyes.

The police seem to be focussing pretty squarely on the 18 yr old BMW driver. See the release below. They say:

"Details of the investigation will be presented to the Office of the Commonwealth’s Attorney to determine the appropriate charges on all parties involved. Once charged and arrested, the identity of the BMW driver will be released. "

https://fcpdnews.wordpress.com/2022/06/08/two-pedestrians-succumb-to-injuries-in-crash/


I mean -- the Fairfax County Police Dept. isn't saying "hold your judgment until we figure this out." They are clearly thinking about what charges can be made AGAINST THE BMW DRIVER, and not what charges can be made against the Toyota driver.

He is still somebody baby, and I feel very bad for him, I just bad happens to him and we can learn from our mistakes. I know the kid and he is a great smart kid, had over a 3.5 GPA.

A great "smart" kid should have the common sense to understand the consequences of not obeying the rules of the road, speed limits. This driver was driving so fast his car ended up that far away from impact. Of all adjectives to sympathize with this driver, Great and Smart??????? I am aghast you're calling this simply a mistake. Yes, he's somebody's baby. But it reflects very poorly on the parents if they did not teach him about being a responsible driver.

Yep.
All my sympathy goes to the girls who were killed - and their families, of course. I’ve got nothing left over for that a$$hole.

I have sympathy left over. It's terrible all around. It's not like the driver was a Putin-style murderous dictator responsible for killing tens of thousands of people.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
The driver of the 4Runner was likely already in the process of turning/waiting when the BMW came speeding up. Have you never started a left turn and then saw pedestrians crossing? The girls had the right of way in the cross walk. If the BMW was going the legal speed limit, the driver should have been able to slow/stop and avoid the collison.

In my Infiniti QX50, that precise situation triggers the collision avoidance emergency braking. I know because I often get false alarms from the system going across busy intersections and warning sounds go off. Of course the system probably works best at legal speeds.