Protests on college campuses

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sharing another gifted Atlantic article that will probably be too long for blood libel-endorsing PPs' brainwashed zombie attention spans:

Listen to What They’re Chanting
A close look at the words being shouted at protests on campuses across the country reveals why some see the pro-Palestinian cause as so threatening.

By Judith Shulevitz


https://www.theatlantic.com/books/archive/2024/05/pro-palestinian-protests-columbia-chants/678321/?gift=mg7b1AqRHrzgE279scHT_MnocJ8N2Est_Q-pcQusmqc&utm_source=copy-link&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=share

Also, this CNN article nailed it:

Opinion: The antisemitic lie at the heart of too many campus protests
Opinion by Frida Ghitis
9 minute read
Published 12:24 PM EDT, Tue May 7, 2024

https://www.cnn.com/2024/05/07/opinions/columbia-university-israel-campus-protests-antisemitism-ghitis/index.html

But I don't expect most posters to submit to a 9-minute read... prove me wrong, guys?

I read it. Everything in it is something I've read before. It did not change my mind. We shouldn't use the word "genocide" in relation to the Palestinians. Fine. I've never used the word personally. Both sides are not acting in good faith and both sides are being failed by their leaders. I just don't believe more children should die. I don't think that makes me an anti-semite or pro-Hamas.

DP. Do you support the campus protests? Like when they projected "Glory to our martyrs" on a GWU building a couple weeks after the 10/7 Hamas massacre of families? Because I also don't think children should die, and that's why I hope Israel absolutely destroys Hamas.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:look at the language these people are using

this should chill everyone to the bone. as a jew, it chills me to the bone.

also, this person's bio reads: "Trying to find my voice again after years of homelessness"

so perhaps consider whether the people who are supporting this kind of thing are the sorts of people you want to be following - or are very troubled people

Didn’t listen, but if threatening language was used, that’s unproductive and not acceptable, certainly in that forum.

As far as a person being homeless, I don’t get your nexus about them being “troubled” and seemingly insinuating that they should be maligned or deprived of a voice because of their homelessness.

Since they are (or were) homeless, people should not consider their views? Wow, that is not a good look, and really, it’s way worse of a look than actually being homeless.

You probably shouldn't be looking to people who describe themselves as "looking to find my way after years of being homeless" for guidance and information about complex geopolitical issues. You can, of course, but sources do matter.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:look at the language these people are using

this should chill everyone to the bone. as a jew, it chills me to the bone.

also, this person's bio reads: "Trying to find my voice again after years of homelessness"

so perhaps consider whether the people who are supporting this kind of thing are the sorts of people you want to be following - or are very troubled people

Didn’t listen, but if threatening language was used, that’s unproductive and not acceptable, certainly in that forum.

As far as a person being homeless, I don’t get your nexus about them being “troubled” and seemingly insinuating that they should be maligned or deprived of a voice because of their homelessness.

Since they are (or were) homeless, people should not consider their views? Wow, that is not a good look, and really, it’s way worse of a look than actually being homeless.

of course not. listen to whomever you want to listen to. i'd say someone using the angsty, emo "trying to find my voice after years of being homeless" is self-identifying as a troubled soul. them saying that "zionists are being driven out of every place where they currently feel safe and welcome" is worse.

i hope we're past pretending that when people say "zionists" they don't mean "jews"

I disagree with most of what you said, and agree with some. To be clear:

1. I agree that one can listen to whomever they want to listen to. If they listen to scumbags, that’s on them.

2. I don’t agree that it’s angsty to say what that person said about finding their voice following hardship - would you apply the same label if it was a DV survivor saying the exact same thing?

3. I don’t agree that expressing vulnerability = a troubled soul.

4. I agree that the use of language involving “driving out” groups, even those with whom we strongly disagree (see #5 below), and depriving them of safety is productive or acceptable.

5. I strongly disagree that Zionists = Jews. Couldn’t disagree more strongly with that assertion. I NEVER mean that (most Jewish people, much less all Jewish people) in my use of the word.

Zionism in its current form as carried out by the extremist RWNJ government of Israel (a mandate to subjugate and displace an indigenous population, by any means necessary, in furtherance of Jewish hegemony in the Middle East region) is an abomination.

Though we will disagree, I’m sure, about the claim to the land, I’m totally supportive of a Jewish homeland in the Middle East. But I don’t support its efforts to block the Palestinian right to self-determination or its efforts to lord over everyone else. Not having that.

Israel can fit in and find a way to coexist, but wiping everyone else out isn’t an option the rest of the world will stand for. But that’s the path they seem intent on taking, so that’s why reform is needed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sharing another gifted Atlantic article that will probably be too long for blood libel-endorsing PPs' brainwashed zombie attention spans:

Listen to What They’re Chanting
A close look at the words being shouted at protests on campuses across the country reveals why some see the pro-Palestinian cause as so threatening.

By Judith Shulevitz


https://www.theatlantic.com/books/archive/2024/05/pro-palestinian-protests-columbia-chants/678321/?gift=mg7b1AqRHrzgE279scHT_MnocJ8N2Est_Q-pcQusmqc&utm_source=copy-link&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=share

Also, this CNN article nailed it:

Opinion: The antisemitic lie at the heart of too many campus protests
Opinion by Frida Ghitis
9 minute read
Published 12:24 PM EDT, Tue May 7, 2024

https://www.cnn.com/2024/05/07/opinions/columbia-university-israel-campus-protests-antisemitism-ghitis/index.html

But I don't expect most posters to submit to a 9-minute read... prove me wrong, guys?

I read it. Everything in it is something I've read before. It did not change my mind. We shouldn't use the word "genocide" in relation to the Palestinians. Fine. I've never used the word personally. Both sides are not acting in good faith and both sides are being failed by their leaders. I just don't believe more children should die. I don't think that makes me an anti-semite or pro-Hamas.

It does make you pro-Hamas because if Hamas is not defeated soundly the violence against both Jews and Gazan human shields will continue. Put your pressure where it belongs. "Ceasefire" doesn't actually mean peace. It means capitulation to terrorists and a license for them to continue to their program of death for anyone who stands in the way of their quest for dominance.

How do you define “soundly defeated”? How does one defeat a non-conventional military force embedded in a civilian population? Terrorist groups are like hydra, headed monsters. Cut off one head and another one will grow in its place. It is easier said than done to “defeat” them. Meanwhile, more children are dying.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sharing another gifted Atlantic article that will probably be too long for blood libel-endorsing PPs' brainwashed zombie attention spans:

Listen to What They’re Chanting
A close look at the words being shouted at protests on campuses across the country reveals why some see the pro-Palestinian cause as so threatening.

By Judith Shulevitz


https://www.theatlantic.com/books/archive/2024/05/pro-palestinian-protests-columbia-chants/678321/?gift=mg7b1AqRHrzgE279scHT_MnocJ8N2Est_Q-pcQusmqc&utm_source=copy-link&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=share

Also, this CNN article nailed it:

Opinion: The antisemitic lie at the heart of too many campus protests
Opinion by Frida Ghitis
9 minute read
Published 12:24 PM EDT, Tue May 7, 2024

https://www.cnn.com/2024/05/07/opinions/columbia-university-israel-campus-protests-antisemitism-ghitis/index.html

But I don't expect most posters to submit to a 9-minute read... prove me wrong, guys?

I read it. Everything in it is something I've read before. It did not change my mind. We shouldn't use the word "genocide" in relation to the Palestinians. Fine. I've never used the word personally. Both sides are not acting in good faith and both sides are being failed by their leaders. I just don't believe more children should die. I don't think that makes me an anti-semite or pro-Hamas.

It does make you pro-Hamas because if Hamas is not defeated soundly the violence against both Jews and Gazan human shields will continue. Put your pressure where it belongs. "Ceasefire" doesn't actually mean peace. It means capitulation to terrorists and a license for them to continue to their program of death for anyone who stands in the way of their quest for dominance.

How do you define “soundly defeated”? How does one defeat a non-conventional military force embedded in a civilian population? Terrorist groups are like hydra, headed monsters. Cut off one head and another one will grow in its place. It is easier said than done to “defeat” them. Meanwhile, more children are dying.

People like to say that terrorist groups are hydras. That makes for vivid imagery. But it turns out, you *can* kill, demoralize, and render impotent a terrorist organization. There are many defunct terrorist organizations. They are not demons, they are people, and they need resources and human capital to survive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sharing another gifted Atlantic article that will probably be too long for blood libel-endorsing PPs' brainwashed zombie attention spans:

Listen to What They’re Chanting
A close look at the words being shouted at protests on campuses across the country reveals why some see the pro-Palestinian cause as so threatening.

By Judith Shulevitz


https://www.theatlantic.com/books/archive/2024/05/pro-palestinian-protests-columbia-chants/678321/?gift=mg7b1AqRHrzgE279scHT_MnocJ8N2Est_Q-pcQusmqc&utm_source=copy-link&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=share

Also, this CNN article nailed it:

Opinion: The antisemitic lie at the heart of too many campus protests
Opinion by Frida Ghitis
9 minute read
Published 12:24 PM EDT, Tue May 7, 2024

https://www.cnn.com/2024/05/07/opinions/columbia-university-israel-campus-protests-antisemitism-ghitis/index.html

But I don't expect most posters to submit to a 9-minute read... prove me wrong, guys?

I read it. Everything in it is something I've read before. It did not change my mind. We shouldn't use the word "genocide" in relation to the Palestinians. Fine. I've never used the word personally. Both sides are not acting in good faith and both sides are being failed by their leaders. I just don't believe more children should die. I don't think that makes me an anti-semite or pro-Hamas.

It does make you pro-Hamas because if Hamas is not defeated soundly the violence against both Jews and Gazan human shields will continue. Put your pressure where it belongs. "Ceasefire" doesn't actually mean peace. It means capitulation to terrorists and a license for them to continue to their program of death for anyone who stands in the way of their quest for dominance.

How do you define “soundly defeated”? How does one defeat a non-conventional military force embedded in a civilian population? Terrorist groups are like hydra, headed monsters. Cut off one head and another one will grow in its place. It is easier said than done to “defeat” them. Meanwhile, more children are dying.

People like to say that terrorist groups are hydras. That makes for vivid imagery. But it turns out, you *can* kill, demoralize, and render impotent a terrorist organization. There are many defunct terrorist organizations. They are not demons, they are people, and they need resources and human capital to survive.

Great. Please give us examples of where this has happened successfully.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:look at the language these people are using

this should chill everyone to the bone. as a jew, it chills me to the bone.

also, this person's bio reads: "Trying to find my voice again after years of homelessness"

so perhaps consider whether the people who are supporting this kind of thing are the sorts of people you want to be following - or are very troubled people

Didn’t listen, but if threatening language was used, that’s unproductive and not acceptable, certainly in that forum.

As far as a person being homeless, I don’t get your nexus about them being “troubled” and seemingly insinuating that they should be maligned or deprived of a voice because of their homelessness.

Since they are (or were) homeless, people should not consider their views? Wow, that is not a good look, and really, it’s way worse of a look than actually being homeless.

of course not. listen to whomever you want to listen to. i'd say someone using the angsty, emo "trying to find my voice after years of being homeless" is self-identifying as a troubled soul. them saying that "zionists are being driven out of every place where they currently feel safe and welcome" is worse.

i hope we're past pretending that when people say "zionists" they don't mean "jews"

I disagree with most of what you said, and agree with some. To be clear:

1. I agree that one can listen to whomever they want to listen to. If they listen to scumbags, that’s on them.

2. I don’t agree that it’s angsty to say what that person said about finding their voice following hardship - would you apply the same label if it was a DV survivor saying the exact same thing?

3. I don’t agree that expressing vulnerability = a troubled soul.

4. I agree that the use of language involving “driving out” groups, even those with whom we strongly disagree (see #5 below), and depriving them of safety is productive or acceptable.

5. I strongly disagree that Zionists = Jews. Couldn’t disagree more strongly with that assertion. I NEVER mean that (most Jewish people, much less all Jewish people) in my use of the word.

Zionism in its current form as carried out by the extremist RWNJ government of Israel (a mandate to subjugate and displace an indigenous population, by any means necessary, in furtherance of Jewish hegemony in the Middle East region) is an abomination.

Though we will disagree, I’m sure, about the claim to the land, I’m totally supportive of a Jewish homeland in the Middle East. But I don’t support its efforts to block the Palestinian right to self-determination or its efforts to lord over everyone else. Not having that.

Israel can fit in and find a way to coexist, but wiping everyone else out isn’t an option the rest of the world will stand for. But that’s the path they seem intent on taking, so that’s why reform is needed.

except the people like this are trying to wipe out israel. they are trying to isolate and eject everyone who believes israel shouldn't be wiped out. no matter how reasonable, moderate, and peace-loving we are, we are the "zionists" who have to be driven out of society.

i think someone trying to find their voice after years of being homeless probably has a lot to say about being homeless, and very little useful to say about zionism or the middle east, honestly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:look at the language these people are using

this should chill everyone to the bone. as a jew, it chills me to the bone.

also, this person's bio reads: "Trying to find my voice again after years of homelessness"

so perhaps consider whether the people who are supporting this kind of thing are the sorts of people you want to be following - or are very troubled people

Didn’t listen, but if threatening language was used, that’s unproductive and not acceptable, certainly in that forum.

As far as a person being homeless, I don’t get your nexus about them being “troubled” and seemingly insinuating that they should be maligned or deprived of a voice because of their homelessness.

Since they are (or were) homeless, people should not consider their views? Wow, that is not a good look, and really, it’s way worse of a look than actually being homeless.

of course not. listen to whomever you want to listen to. i'd say someone using the angsty, emo "trying to find my voice after years of being homeless" is self-identifying as a troubled soul. them saying that "zionists are being driven out of every place where they currently feel safe and welcome" is worse.

i hope we're past pretending that when people say "zionists" they don't mean "jews"

I disagree with most of what you said, and agree with some. To be clear:

1. I agree that one can listen to whomever they want to listen to. If they listen to scumbags, that’s on them.

2. I don’t agree that it’s angsty to say what that person said about finding their voice following hardship - would you apply the same label if it was a DV survivor saying the exact same thing?

3. I don’t agree that expressing vulnerability = a troubled soul.

4. I agree that the use of language involving “driving out” groups, even those with whom we strongly disagree (see #5 below), and depriving them of safety is productive or acceptable.

5. I strongly disagree that Zionists = Jews. Couldn’t disagree more strongly with that assertion. I NEVER mean that (most Jewish people, much less all Jewish people) in my use of the word.

Zionism in its current form as carried out by the extremist RWNJ government of Israel (a mandate to subjugate and displace an indigenous population, by any means necessary, in furtherance of Jewish hegemony in the Middle East region) is an abomination.

Though we will disagree, I’m sure, about the claim to the land, I’m totally supportive of a Jewish homeland in the Middle East. But I don’t support its efforts to block the Palestinian right to self-determination or its efforts to lord over everyone else. Not having that.

Israel can fit in and find a way to coexist, but wiping everyone else out isn’t an option the rest of the world will stand for. But that’s the path they seem intent on taking, so that’s why reform is needed.

except the people like this are trying to wipe out israel. they are trying to isolate and eject everyone who believes israel shouldn't be wiped out. no matter how reasonable, moderate, and peace-loving we are, we are the "zionists" who have to be driven out of society.

i think someone trying to find their voice after years of being homeless probably has a lot to say about being homeless, and very little useful to say about zionism or the middle east, honestly.

The second part of what you said is beyond embarrassing in its ignorance, but set that aside for now, I guess. The first part is more interesting ...

Would you agree with this statement?

I support the right of Israel to exist as a Jewish homeland, but I reject the Zionist mandate to subjugate and displace the indigenous population, by any means necessary, in furtherance of Jewish hegemony in the Middle East region.

If you cannot agree with that bolded statement, you're squarely part of the problem leading to conflict in the Middle East.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sharing another gifted Atlantic article that will probably be too long for blood libel-endorsing PPs' brainwashed zombie attention spans:

Listen to What They’re Chanting
A close look at the words being shouted at protests on campuses across the country reveals why some see the pro-Palestinian cause as so threatening.

By Judith Shulevitz


https://www.theatlantic.com/books/archive/2024/05/pro-palestinian-protests-columbia-chants/678321/?gift=mg7b1AqRHrzgE279scHT_MnocJ8N2Est_Q-pcQusmqc&utm_source=copy-link&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=share

Also, this CNN article nailed it:

Opinion: The antisemitic lie at the heart of too many campus protests
Opinion by Frida Ghitis
9 minute read
Published 12:24 PM EDT, Tue May 7, 2024

https://www.cnn.com/2024/05/07/opinions/columbia-university-israel-campus-protests-antisemitism-ghitis/index.html

But I don't expect most posters to submit to a 9-minute read... prove me wrong, guys?

I read it. Everything in it is something I've read before. It did not change my mind. We shouldn't use the word "genocide" in relation to the Palestinians. Fine. I've never used the word personally. Both sides are not acting in good faith and both sides are being failed by their leaders. I just don't believe more children should die. I don't think that makes me an anti-semite or pro-Hamas.

It does make you pro-Hamas because if Hamas is not defeated soundly the violence against both Jews and Gazan human shields will continue. Put your pressure where it belongs. "Ceasefire" doesn't actually mean peace. It means capitulation to terrorists and a license for them to continue to their program of death for anyone who stands in the way of their quest for dominance.

How do you define “soundly defeated”? How does one defeat a non-conventional military force embedded in a civilian population? Terrorist groups are like hydra, headed monsters. Cut off one head and another one will grow in its place. It is easier said than done to “defeat” them. Meanwhile, more children are dying.

People like to say that terrorist groups are hydras. That makes for vivid imagery. But it turns out, you *can* kill, demoralize, and render impotent a terrorist organization. There are many defunct terrorist organizations. They are not demons, they are people, and they need resources and human capital to survive.

Great. Please give us examples of where this has happened successfully.

Here are 5 terrorist organizations that were recently delisted. To that list, you can add a bunch of inactive ones like Jaysh al Madhi, and ones that have significantly declined like the original al Qaeda (which lost market share to splinter groups with more youth appeal).

https://www.npr.org/2022/05/16/1099088398/u-s-to-remove-groups-from-foreign-terrorism-blacklist

Terrorist organizations are not super human. Companies, sports teams, clubs, etc rise, decline and fall. They are no different.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:look at the language these people are using

this should chill everyone to the bone. as a jew, it chills me to the bone.

also, this person's bio reads: "Trying to find my voice again after years of homelessness"

so perhaps consider whether the people who are supporting this kind of thing are the sorts of people you want to be following - or are very troubled people

Didn’t listen, but if threatening language was used, that’s unproductive and not acceptable, certainly in that forum.

As far as a person being homeless, I don’t get your nexus about them being “troubled” and seemingly insinuating that they should be maligned or deprived of a voice because of their homelessness.

Since they are (or were) homeless, people should not consider their views? Wow, that is not a good look, and really, it’s way worse of a look than actually being homeless.

of course not. listen to whomever you want to listen to. i'd say someone using the angsty, emo "trying to find my voice after years of being homeless" is self-identifying as a troubled soul. them saying that "zionists are being driven out of every place where they currently feel safe and welcome" is worse.

i hope we're past pretending that when people say "zionists" they don't mean "jews"

I disagree with most of what you said, and agree with some. To be clear:

1. I agree that one can listen to whomever they want to listen to. If they listen to scumbags, that’s on them.

2. I don’t agree that it’s angsty to say what that person said about finding their voice following hardship - would you apply the same label if it was a DV survivor saying the exact same thing?

3. I don’t agree that expressing vulnerability = a troubled soul.

4. I agree that the use of language involving “driving out” groups, even those with whom we strongly disagree (see #5 below), and depriving them of safety is productive or acceptable.

5. I strongly disagree that Zionists = Jews. Couldn’t disagree more strongly with that assertion. I NEVER mean that (most Jewish people, much less all Jewish people) in my use of the word.

Zionism in its current form as carried out by the extremist RWNJ government of Israel (a mandate to subjugate and displace an indigenous population, by any means necessary, in furtherance of Jewish hegemony in the Middle East region) is an abomination.

Though we will disagree, I’m sure, about the claim to the land, I’m totally supportive of a Jewish homeland in the Middle East. But I don’t support its efforts to block the Palestinian right to self-determination or its efforts to lord over everyone else. Not having that.

Israel can fit in and find a way to coexist, but wiping everyone else out isn’t an option the rest of the world will stand for. But that’s the path they seem intent on taking, so that’s why reform is needed.

except the people like this are trying to wipe out israel. they are trying to isolate and eject everyone who believes israel shouldn't be wiped out. no matter how reasonable, moderate, and peace-loving we are, we are the "zionists" who have to be driven out of society.

i think someone trying to find their voice after years of being homeless probably has a lot to say about being homeless, and very little useful to say about zionism or the middle east, honestly.

The second part of what you said is beyond embarrassing in its ignorance, but set that aside for now, I guess. The first part is more interesting ...

Would you agree with this statement?

I support the right of Israel to exist as a Jewish homeland, but I reject the Zionist mandate to subjugate and displace the indigenous population, by any means necessary, in furtherance of Jewish hegemony in the Middle East region.

If you cannot agree with that bolded statement, you're squarely part of the problem leading to conflict in the Middle East.

DP, but homeless people do not tend to be scholars or international relations experts. The pp is not a jerk for noticing that homeless people are rarely sought after for their insights on complex matters.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sharing another gifted Atlantic article that will probably be too long for blood libel-endorsing PPs' brainwashed zombie attention spans:

Listen to What They’re Chanting
A close look at the words being shouted at protests on campuses across the country reveals why some see the pro-Palestinian cause as so threatening.

By Judith Shulevitz


https://www.theatlantic.com/books/archive/2024/05/pro-palestinian-protests-columbia-chants/678321/?gift=mg7b1AqRHrzgE279scHT_MnocJ8N2Est_Q-pcQusmqc&utm_source=copy-link&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=share

Also, this CNN article nailed it:

Opinion: The antisemitic lie at the heart of too many campus protests
Opinion by Frida Ghitis
9 minute read
Published 12:24 PM EDT, Tue May 7, 2024

https://www.cnn.com/2024/05/07/opinions/columbia-university-israel-campus-protests-antisemitism-ghitis/index.html

But I don't expect most posters to submit to a 9-minute read... prove me wrong, guys?

I read it. Everything in it is something I've read before. It did not change my mind. We shouldn't use the word "genocide" in relation to the Palestinians. Fine. I've never used the word personally. Both sides are not acting in good faith and both sides are being failed by their leaders. I just don't believe more children should die. I don't think that makes me an anti-semite or pro-Hamas.

It does make you pro-Hamas because if Hamas is not defeated soundly the violence against both Jews and Gazan human shields will continue. Put your pressure where it belongs. "Ceasefire" doesn't actually mean peace. It means capitulation to terrorists and a license for them to continue to their program of death for anyone who stands in the way of their quest for dominance.

How do you define “soundly defeated”? How does one defeat a non-conventional military force embedded in a civilian population? Terrorist groups are like hydra, headed monsters. Cut off one head and another one will grow in its place. It is easier said than done to “defeat” them. Meanwhile, more children are dying.

People like to say that terrorist groups are hydras. That makes for vivid imagery. But it turns out, you *can* kill, demoralize, and render impotent a terrorist organization. There are many defunct terrorist organizations. They are not demons, they are people, and they need resources and human capital to survive.

Great. Please give us examples of where this has happened successfully.

Both Al-Qaeda and ISIS have been effectively destroyed. Of course there are still remnants, but they are relatively impotent and inconsequential. The same thing will happen with Hamas. The key is to kill them all, which no doubt will happen with time. No one in Syria and Iraq misses the terror inflicted by ISIS. And no one in Gaza will miss Hamas when they are gone - except some American college students apparently.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do you all think there will be incidents at the Olympics? I am concerned about safety for the Israeli and U.S. contingents.

U.S contingent should be fine. Israeli contingent, I don’t know… they will be safe I guess but they will be booed and shamed…. going by what happened at Eurovision.

Disgusting behavior.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sharing another gifted Atlantic article that will probably be too long for blood libel-endorsing PPs' brainwashed zombie attention spans:

Listen to What They’re Chanting
A close look at the words being shouted at protests on campuses across the country reveals why some see the pro-Palestinian cause as so threatening.

By Judith Shulevitz


https://www.theatlantic.com/books/archive/2024/05/pro-palestinian-protests-columbia-chants/678321/?gift=mg7b1AqRHrzgE279scHT_MnocJ8N2Est_Q-pcQusmqc&utm_source=copy-link&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=share

Also, this CNN article nailed it:

Opinion: The antisemitic lie at the heart of too many campus protests
Opinion by Frida Ghitis
9 minute read
Published 12:24 PM EDT, Tue May 7, 2024

https://www.cnn.com/2024/05/07/opinions/columbia-university-israel-campus-protests-antisemitism-ghitis/index.html

But I don't expect most posters to submit to a 9-minute read... prove me wrong, guys?

I read it. Everything in it is something I've read before. It did not change my mind. We shouldn't use the word "genocide" in relation to the Palestinians. Fine. I've never used the word personally. Both sides are not acting in good faith and both sides are being failed by their leaders. I just don't believe more children should die. I don't think that makes me an anti-semite or pro-Hamas.

It does make you pro-Hamas because if Hamas is not defeated soundly the violence against both Jews and Gazan human shields will continue. Put your pressure where it belongs. "Ceasefire" doesn't actually mean peace. It means capitulation to terrorists and a license for them to continue to their program of death for anyone who stands in the way of their quest for dominance.

How do you define “soundly defeated”? How does one defeat a non-conventional military force embedded in a civilian population? Terrorist groups are like hydra, headed monsters. Cut off one head and another one will grow in its place. It is easier said than done to “defeat” them. Meanwhile, more children are dying.

People like to say that terrorist groups are hydras. That makes for vivid imagery. But it turns out, you *can* kill, demoralize, and render impotent a terrorist organization. There are many defunct terrorist organizations. They are not demons, they are people, and they need resources and human capital to survive.

Great. Please give us examples of where this has happened successfully.

Here are 5 terrorist organizations that were recently delisted. To that list, you can add a bunch of inactive ones like Jaysh al Madhi, and ones that have significantly declined like the original al Qaeda (which lost market share to splinter groups with more youth appeal).

https://www.npr.org/2022/05/16/1099088398/u-s-to-remove-groups-from-foreign-terrorism-blacklist

Terrorist organizations are not super human. Companies, sports teams, clubs, etc rise, decline and fall. They are no different.

I’m pretty sure Hamas is more of a popular political party than any of those groups.

And let’s be clear: the bellicose, bigoted, and massively violent response to Hamas’s attacks on October 7 has absolutely created a generation of new recruits. Like so much of American propaganda “counter terrorism” isn’t so much about creating peace as it is about growing budgets for the police and military. And credulous civilians buy that uncritically.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Sharing another gifted Atlantic article that will probably be too long for blood libel-endorsing PPs' brainwashed zombie attention spans:

Listen to What They’re Chanting
A close look at the words being shouted at protests on campuses across the country reveals why some see the pro-Palestinian cause as so threatening.

By Judith Shulevitz


https://www.theatlantic.com/books/archive/2024/05/pro-palestinian-protests-columbia-chants/678321/?gift=mg7b1AqRHrzgE279scHT_MnocJ8N2Est_Q-pcQusmqc&utm_source=copy-link&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=share

Also, this CNN article nailed it:

Opinion: The antisemitic lie at the heart of too many campus protests
Opinion by Frida Ghitis
9 minute read
Published 12:24 PM EDT, Tue May 7, 2024

https://www.cnn.com/2024/05/07/opinions/columbia-university-israel-campus-protests-antisemitism-ghitis/index.html

But I don't expect most posters to submit to a 9-minute read... prove me wrong, guys?

I read it. Everything in it is something I've read before. It did not change my mind. We shouldn't use the word "genocide" in relation to the Palestinians. Fine. I've never used the word personally. Both sides are not acting in good faith and both sides are being failed by their leaders. I just don't believe more children should die. I don't think that makes me an anti-semite or pro-Hamas.

It does make you pro-Hamas because if Hamas is not defeated soundly the violence against both Jews and Gazan human shields will continue. Put your pressure where it belongs. "Ceasefire" doesn't actually mean peace. It means capitulation to terrorists and a license for them to continue to their program of death for anyone who stands in the way of their quest for dominance.

How do you define “soundly defeated”? How does one defeat a non-conventional military force embedded in a civilian population? Terrorist groups are like hydra, headed monsters. Cut off one head and another one will grow in its place. It is easier said than done to “defeat” them. Meanwhile, more children are dying.

People like to say that terrorist groups are hydras. That makes for vivid imagery. But it turns out, you *can* kill, demoralize, and render impotent a terrorist organization. There are many defunct terrorist organizations. They are not demons, they are people, and they need resources and human capital to survive.

Great. Please give us examples of where this has happened successfully.

Both Al-Qaeda and ISIS have been effectively destroyed. Of course there are still remnants, but they are relatively impotent and inconsequential. The same thing will happen with Hamas. The key is to kill them all, which no doubt will happen with time. No one in Syria and Iraq misses the terror inflicted by ISIS. And no one in Gaza will miss Hamas when they are gone - except some American college students apparently.

Senile boomerdom at its most delusional.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:look at the language these people are using

this should chill everyone to the bone. as a jew, it chills me to the bone.

also, this person's bio reads: "Trying to find my voice again after years of homelessness"

so perhaps consider whether the people who are supporting this kind of thing are the sorts of people you want to be following - or are very troubled people

Didn’t listen, but if threatening language was used, that’s unproductive and not acceptable, certainly in that forum.

As far as a person being homeless, I don’t get your nexus about them being “troubled” and seemingly insinuating that they should be maligned or deprived of a voice because of their homelessness.

Since they are (or were) homeless, people should not consider their views? Wow, that is not a good look, and really, it’s way worse of a look than actually being homeless.

of course not. listen to whomever you want to listen to. i'd say someone using the angsty, emo "trying to find my voice after years of being homeless" is self-identifying as a troubled soul. them saying that "zionists are being driven out of every place where they currently feel safe and welcome" is worse.

i hope we're past pretending that when people say "zionists" they don't mean "jews"

I disagree with most of what you said, and agree with some. To be clear:

1. I agree that one can listen to whomever they want to listen to. If they listen to scumbags, that’s on them.

2. I don’t agree that it’s angsty to say what that person said about finding their voice following hardship - would you apply the same label if it was a DV survivor saying the exact same thing?

3. I don’t agree that expressing vulnerability = a troubled soul.

4. I agree that the use of language involving “driving out” groups, even those with whom we strongly disagree (see #5 below), and depriving them of safety is productive or acceptable.

5. I strongly disagree that Zionists = Jews. Couldn’t disagree more strongly with that assertion. I NEVER mean that (most Jewish people, much less all Jewish people) in my use of the word.

Zionism in its current form as carried out by the extremist RWNJ government of Israel (a mandate to subjugate and displace an indigenous population, by any means necessary, in furtherance of Jewish hegemony in the Middle East region) is an abomination.

Though we will disagree, I’m sure, about the claim to the land, I’m totally supportive of a Jewish homeland in the Middle East. But I don’t support its efforts to block the Palestinian right to self-determination or its efforts to lord over everyone else. Not having that.

Israel can fit in and find a way to coexist, but wiping everyone else out isn’t an option the rest of the world will stand for. But that’s the path they seem intent on taking, so that’s why reform is needed.

except the people like this are trying to wipe out israel. they are trying to isolate and eject everyone who believes israel shouldn't be wiped out. no matter how reasonable, moderate, and peace-loving we are, we are the "zionists" who have to be driven out of society.

i think someone trying to find their voice after years of being homeless probably has a lot to say about being homeless, and very little useful to say about zionism or the middle east, honestly.

The second part of what you said is beyond embarrassing in its ignorance, but set that aside for now, I guess. The first part is more interesting ...

Would you agree with this statement?

I support the right of Israel to exist as a Jewish homeland, but I reject the Zionist mandate to subjugate and displace the indigenous population, by any means necessary, in furtherance of Jewish hegemony in the Middle East region.

If you cannot agree with that bolded statement, you're squarely part of the problem leading to conflict in the Middle East.

DP, but homeless people do not tend to be scholars or international relations experts. The pp is not a jerk for noticing that homeless people are rarely sought after for their insights on complex matters.

DP

I’ve encountered homeless people who would run circles around most of the posters here who claim to possess foreign policy bona fides, in just about any discussion centered on human rights and geopolitical considerations.

And perhaps their homelessness is part of it - maybe lacking the farcical talking points of State provides better actual insight to solving conflicts, rather than exploiting them for economic gain.