ICE Shooting in Minneapolis

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some of you need to think about your critical reasoning and logic skills.

Even if we accept (and this is a flawed premise), that Nicole Good was a terrible person, that she was a paid trouble maker, that she deliberately provoked, that was breaking all sorts of laws... what is the logical consequence???

Not three bullets in the face.

Not logical, but it happened. Now her little boy has no parents.

Wow, really???

Do you think a stepparent isn’t a real stepparent when they are in a same sex marriage?

Disgusting. That boy has a stepmother still, one who adored his biological mother and will never let him forget her, her values and her love for him.

Stepmother may not have custody pretty soon; grandparents of the boy already filed for emergency custody hearing. Stepmother pushed the mother to drive into LEO, earned over a million dollars for that, so let see how sympathetic the court is going to be toward her.

You think that’s bad, some ICE guy with kids shot a lady in the face because his feelings got hurt. I’m concerned for their safety.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And this is all there is to it

No one has a constitutional right to drive a car into someone. A car is deadly force. It isn’t mean words or throwing snowballs or being salty to officers.

Literally zero people have claimed it is right to deliberately drive into anyone, much less a law enforcement official, unless in self defense.

What’s wrong with you? Why don’t you hate America and our values so much?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Would you tell your own child to follow and harass the police for hours, then block traffic and then drive away once confronted by the police?

Would you tell your child to shoot someone in the face three times for blocking the road?

If after they blocked the road and then tried to run me over, yes.

Do you know the first thing an officer tells a drunk as they are pleading to be let go and they’ll take an uber? They say, in your condition we have no idea what harm you may have caused tonight in your condition. We are doing this for everyone’s safety.

In Renee’s case, it was her own safety she sacrificed, and for what.

Would you tell your daughter to get out of the vehicle and go with the unidentified masked men screaming in her face and pointing a gun at her? Or would you tell her to drive away?

I would tell my daughter not to disrupt a lawful proceeding and to obey the people she knows are police. In the victim's case, she brought a car to a gun fight.

That's fine, but what if she just happens to be in a place where ICE rolls in? There is no telling where these days.

I would follow all their directives and teach my kids the same. Don't antagonize. Don't taunt. Don't make waves.

Because the lesson learned is that ICE may murder you.

I live in a large city, value my privacy, and try to keep a low profile. I would never choose to taunt or show disrespect to any law enforcement person for any reason. When I ride public transportation, I do the same. Too many unstable, trigger-happy people in this modern world.

You fit the profile of a collaborator.

For anyone else interested in history, people like PP are the ones who enable the actively evil folks, through their immediate acquiescence fueled by cowardice.

Your opinion means nothing. Survival so that I can be a mother to my young children means much more to me than dying as a martyr and leaving my child with no mother or father. .

NP and I won't call you a collaborator. I totally understand and have been thinking a lot about the privilege I have attending protests because a) I am white b) I have the means to call a lawyer immediately c) I am I over 50 and my kids don't need me the way they used to. I think about these privileges every time I attend a protest with the awareness that 10-15 years ago, I would not have dared to make the same choices.

But that said, it would have been a choice to prioritize one responsibility over another. I would not have changed my understanding of injustice. And I would have been grateful of those who took on the risks.

I think PPs are reacting negatively because sounds like you are implicitly criticizing the person who makes a different decision instead of criticizing the person who murdered her.

Thank you for taking the time to post this comment. Although not in every post, I have actually said several times that she didn't deserve to die and that he was wrong. I still believe we all make choices and that results/consequences may not be fair, rational, or what we wanted. Life can be very hard. My children are my priority.

If you are saying you would fear to protest injustice, because you don't want to lose your life and orphan your children, that says a lot about how far this country has fallen. The Trump administration has made us as bad as all the other horrible autocracies we watch in horror as they kill their own people.

You don't have young kids?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Hey, it looks like someone is out there scamming a go fund me for him. If you give enough I bet that you’ll get a free Trump phone!

“ Now, Johnathon is facing mounting legal fees, medical bills, lost wages, and the heavy burden of emotional pain and suffering. His family is struggling to cope with the aftermath, and their lives have been turned upside down. As someone who has also experienced a life-changing incident, I know how isolating and overwhelming this can feel. I am asking for your support to help Johnathon and his family through this incredibly difficult time. Your generosity will make a real difference as they work to heal and rebuild their lives.”

Why does he need money? If he was working at the time of the murder, and his murder was sanctioned by the us government, he qualifies for workers comp and I’m sure they take care of injuries sustained on the job.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I work for a major metropolitan police department in the South and let me tell you, any cop who handled an encounter the way this ICE officer did would’ve been strung up by internal affairs within 2 minutes.

1) No body cam (can you imagine real cops taking out their cell phones to film an encounter, breaking all manner of policies regarding privacy)?

2) Jumping out of a generic silver pickup truck with nothing identifying it as a law enforcement vehicle.

3) Officers not identifying themselves and immediately running up and escalating the situation by screaming swear words and pulling on the door handle (no cop in a million years would do this; you keep your distance, make verbal contact first, deescalate, ensure the scene is secure—hands on steering wheel etc—then approach the suspect).

4) Accosting a citizen when there’s no report of her in distress or engaged in illegal activity. In other words, she’s not a suspect. If she’s impeding traffic or a law enforcement activity, you tell her to move along. If she refuses to comply, there are procedures for detaining her in a safe, secure manner.

5) Firing at a moving vehicle, including through the driver’s side window, endangering other people’s lives who might be standing on the other side of the vehicle (bullets go through a car door like tin foil)

6) There’s more, but the point is this ICE officer failed at every level. At worst, Renee Good was protesting ICE and being a bit obnoxious about it. She clearly was not trying to harm anyone. She might’ve panicked with all these gunmen screaming at her, She might’ve just said “F it” and tried to drive off. Whatever the case, this is 100% on this ICE officer and the practices (they’re not really even policies) of the ICE terror regime.

Thank you for your perspective. Why don't any of the defenders ever address the posts from LEOs or others who work in law enforcement?

I notice this too.
Every time an obviously very experienced LEO explains the myriad ways in which these ICE officers exceeded their authority, the MAGA cult completely ignores it and continues with its ignorance and lies.

I'm a LEO. My goal is to go home safely after work. At the Academy we were taught that in case of doubt, it's better to be tried by 12 than carried by 6. People who deliberately place themselves in positions where they can reasonably be perceived as threats have only themselves to blame for the consequences if the LEO they choose to confront sees their behavior as threatening enough to justify the use of deadly force. Playing chicken with a LEO on the assumption that your behavior won't be perceived that way is demonstrably reckless, foolish, and stupid.

PP LEO here. While I agree that too many LEO believe this, our training and guidelines does not. If you were trained differently link to the documentation that states that. I’ll wait.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some of you need to think about your critical reasoning and logic skills.

Even if we accept (and this is a flawed premise), that Nicole Good was a terrible person, that she was a paid trouble maker, that she deliberately provoked, that was breaking all sorts of laws... what is the logical consequence???

Not three bullets in the face.

Not logical, but it happened. Now her little boy has no parents.

Wow, really???

Do you think a stepparent isn’t a real stepparent when they are in a same sex marriage?

Disgusting. That boy has a stepmother still, one who adored his biological mother and will never let him forget her, her values and her love for him.

Stepmother may not have custody pretty soon; grandparents of the boy already filed for emergency custody hearing. Stepmother pushed the mother to drive into LEO, earned over a million dollars for that, so let see how sympathetic the court is going to be toward her.

Any family lawyers to answer this one? Stepmom hasn’t been accused of any crime.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hey, it looks like someone is out there scamming a go fund me for him. If you give enough I bet that you’ll get a free Trump phone!

“ Now, Johnathon is facing mounting legal fees, medical bills, lost wages, and the heavy burden of emotional pain and suffering. His family is struggling to cope with the aftermath, and their lives have been turned upside down. As someone who has also experienced a life-changing incident, I know how isolating and overwhelming this can feel. I am asking for your support to help Johnathon and his family through this incredibly difficult time. Your generosity will make a real difference as they work to heal and rebuild their lives.”

Why does he need money? If he was working at the time of the murder, and his murder was sanctioned by the us government, he qualifies for workers comp and I’m sure they take care of injuries sustained on the job.

The best part is that I am seeing g multiple go fund mes, which means that at least some are 100% scam. I was going to report them because you can’t profit from criminal activity, but I’d rather watch maga get scammed again.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hey, it looks like someone is out there scamming a go fund me for him. If you give enough I bet that you’ll get a free Trump phone!

“ Now, Johnathon is facing mounting legal fees, medical bills, lost wages, and the heavy burden of emotional pain and suffering. His family is struggling to cope with the aftermath, and their lives have been turned upside down. As someone who has also experienced a life-changing incident, I know how isolating and overwhelming this can feel. I am asking for your support to help Johnathon and his family through this incredibly difficult time. Your generosity will make a real difference as they work to heal and rebuild their lives.”

Why does he need money? If he was working at the time of the murder, and his murder was sanctioned by the us government, he qualifies for workers comp and I’m sure they take care of injuries sustained on the job.

The best part is that I am seeing g multiple go fund mes, which means that at least some are 100% scam. I was going to report them because you can’t profit from criminal activity, but I’d rather watch maga get scammed again.

Please don’t report! MAGA, give all your money to this pAtrIoT!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some of you need to think about your critical reasoning and logic skills.

Even if we accept (and this is a flawed premise), that Nicole Good was a terrible person, that she was a paid trouble maker, that she deliberately provoked, that was breaking all sorts of laws... what is the logical consequence???

Not three bullets in the face.

Not logical, but it happened. Now her little boy has no parents.

Wow, really???

Do you think a stepparent isn’t a real stepparent when they are in a same sex marriage?

Disgusting. That boy has a stepmother still, one who adored his biological mother and will never let him forget her, her values and her love for him.

Stepmother may not have custody pretty soon; grandparents of the boy already filed for emergency custody hearing. Stepmother pushed the mother to drive into LEO, earned over a million dollars for that, so let see how sympathetic the court is going to be toward her.

Any family lawyers to answer this one? Stepmom hasn’t been accused of any crime.

I think it depends if she legally adopted the child or if she was just stepmother by way of marriage. If she isn’t a legal guardian, I would assume the grandparents would be able to assume custody.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some of you need to think about your critical reasoning and logic skills.

Even if we accept (and this is a flawed premise), that Nicole Good was a terrible person, that she was a paid trouble maker, that she deliberately provoked, that was breaking all sorts of laws... what is the logical consequence???

Not three bullets in the face.

Not logical, but it happened. Now her little boy has no parents.

Wow, really???

Do you think a stepparent isn’t a real stepparent when they are in a same sex marriage?

Disgusting. That boy has a stepmother still, one who adored his biological mother and will never let him forget her, her values and her love for him.

Stepmother may not have custody pretty soon; grandparents of the boy already filed for emergency custody hearing. Stepmother pushed the mother to drive into LEO, earned over a million dollars for that, so let see how sympathetic the court is going to be toward her.

Any family lawyers to answer this one? Stepmom hasn’t been accused of any crime.

I think it depends if she legally adopted the child or if she was just stepmother by way of marriage. If she isn’t a legal guardian, I would assume the grandparents would be able to assume custody.

This sounds right based on family experiences in the past.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Hey, it looks like someone is out there scamming a go fund me for him. If you give enough I bet that you’ll get a free Trump phone!

“ Now, Johnathon is facing mounting legal fees, medical bills, lost wages, and the heavy burden of emotional pain and suffering. His family is struggling to cope with the aftermath, and their lives have been turned upside down. As someone who has also experienced a life-changing incident, I know how isolating and overwhelming this can feel. I am asking for your support to help Johnathon and his family through this incredibly difficult time. Your generosity will make a real difference as they work to heal and rebuild their lives.”

Lost wages? Isn’t Jonathan Ross on a taxpayer-funded vacation right now?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People on this forum and around the country have demonized ICE agents to the point where people feel it is the right thing to drive their car into ICE agents. If the tires hadn't slipped on the ice in the road, the agent would have likely been run over, and many would be celebrating.

This woman had training in resisting ICE, and the trainers likely wanted something like this to happen.

ICE agents have demonized themselves.

This is exactly right. People haven't "demonized" ICE. People have watched ICE trample human rights and due process and they are rightfully fed up and angry about it. ICE operates like thugs. How do they expect Americans to just ignore this. And if they are part of the federal government, we pay their salaries. We have every right to criticize their performance and call out their inadequacies. We have every right to say they need to change. They work for US.

They do not work for you or me. Do you sign their paychecks? No. Nor do I.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I work for a major metropolitan police department in the South and let me tell you, any cop who handled an encounter the way this ICE officer did would’ve been strung up by internal affairs within 2 minutes.

1) No body cam (can you imagine real cops taking out their cell phones to film an encounter, breaking all manner of policies regarding privacy)?

2) Jumping out of a generic silver pickup truck with nothing identifying it as a law enforcement vehicle.

3) Officers not identifying themselves and immediately running up and escalating the situation by screaming swear words and pulling on the door handle (no cop in a million years would do this; you keep your distance, make verbal contact first, deescalate, ensure the scene is secure—hands on steering wheel etc—then approach the suspect).

4) Accosting a citizen when there’s no report of her in distress or engaged in illegal activity. In other words, she’s not a suspect. If she’s impeding traffic or a law enforcement activity, you tell her to move along. If she refuses to comply, there are procedures for detaining her in a safe, secure manner.

5) Firing at a moving vehicle, including through the driver’s side window, endangering other people’s lives who might be standing on the other side of the vehicle (bullets go through a car door like tin foil)

6) There’s more, but the point is this ICE officer failed at every level. At worst, Renee Good was protesting ICE and being a bit obnoxious about it. She clearly was not trying to harm anyone. She might’ve panicked with all these gunmen screaming at her, She might’ve just said “F it” and tried to drive off. Whatever the case, this is 100% on this ICE officer and the practices (they’re not really even policies) of the ICE terror regime.

Thank you for your perspective. Why don't any of the defenders ever address the posts from LEOs or others who work in law enforcement?

I notice this too.
Every time an obviously very experienced LEO explains the myriad ways in which these ICE officers exceeded their authority, the MAGA cult completely ignores it and continues with its ignorance and lies.

I'm a LEO. My goal is to go home safely after work. At the Academy we were taught that in case of doubt, it's better to be tried by 12 than carried by 6. People who deliberately place themselves in positions where they can reasonably be perceived as threats have only themselves to blame for the consequences if the LEO they choose to confront sees their behavior as threatening enough to justify the use of deadly force. Playing chicken with a LEO on the assumption that your behavior won't be perceived that way is demonstrably reckless, foolish, and stupid.

This is correct.

And he'll be able to that case at court. This will follow him for years.

Agree. And judgement will be based on if it was reasonable for him to fear serous bodily harm to himself or partners, from his perspective, in that moment.

Close.

It is not from "his perspective". It is from the perspective of a "reasonable person." It is an objective standard not a subjective standard.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People on this forum and around the country have demonized ICE agents to the point where people feel it is the right thing to drive their car into ICE agents. If the tires hadn't slipped on the ice in the road, the agent would have likely been run over, and many would be celebrating.

This woman had training in resisting ICE, and the trainers likely wanted something like this to happen.

ICE agents have demonized themselves.

This is exactly right. People haven't "demonized" ICE. People have watched ICE trample human rights and due process and they are rightfully fed up and angry about it. ICE operates like thugs. How do they expect Americans to just ignore this. And if they are part of the federal government, we pay their salaries. We have every right to criticize their performance and call out their inadequacies. We have every right to say they need to change. They work for US.

They do not work for you or me. Do you sign their paychecks? No. Nor do I.

We are at the top of their chain of command, dumbass. Yes, every April 15th.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People on this forum and around the country have demonized ICE agents to the point where people feel it is the right thing to drive their car into ICE agents. If the tires hadn't slipped on the ice in the road, the agent would have likely been run over, and many would be celebrating.

This woman had training in resisting ICE, and the trainers likely wanted something like this to happen.

ICE agents have demonized themselves.

This is exactly right. People haven't "demonized" ICE. People have watched ICE trample human rights and due process and they are rightfully fed up and angry about it. ICE operates like thugs. How do they expect Americans to just ignore this. And if they are part of the federal government, we pay their salaries. We have every right to criticize their performance and call out their inadequacies. We have every right to say they need to change. They work for US.

All of this, plus I don’t think I’m the only one who is actually frightened that an ICE or CBP officer will actually be seriously injured or killed in a confrontation because that will make all of this even worse than it already is.