How does one prep place account for 25% of TJ Admissions?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I 100% believe that shady things are happening at specific test prep centers. I'm saddened that current students seem to be okay with that, much like they seem to be okay with rampant cheating just to get through basic their four years there. But just like the rise of private "college application counselors" when I was in high school, where wealthy parents paid for EXTENSIVE manipulation of their child's essays and application package - on evidence at TJ still today in the explosion of clubs and activities so that everyone can be "president" or "chair" of something - trying to get the parents of these kids NOT to cheat and game the academic system in favor of their children is like playing whack-a-mole. I'm with PP(s) who have opined that an entirely school-based identification, application, and selection process is the only way to even attempt to curb this influence, and it needs to start with AAP selection.

Your belief counts for nothing. It has to be grounded in some verifiable basis. The world is littered with conspiracy theorists, anti-vaxxers, science-deniers, flat-earthers. Many hold those beliefs for convenience, but many others hold those convictions very strongly.

The rest of your statement flows from your belief, for which I have seen no concrete basis.

Oh FFS. I believe current and recent students who have said that prep centers pay pupils for reporting back on test questions and content. I believe recent alumni who are open on social media about having cheated extensively through their years at TJ to meet their parents’ grade expectations. I can quantify the reduction in non-academic electives at TJ over time because the student population (read: parents) weren’t interested unless it came with an AP option. I can easily chart for you the precipitous decline in applicants since the peak in the late oughts, especially when adjusted for population. Something is rotten in the state of Denmark...and it’s not because kids who aren’t prepped couldn’t thrive at TJ.

Perfect

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you want it to be fair use a standardized tests that is more readily available, have every kid take it, have a cut off where you view anyone above the threshold as qualified and use a lottery of every kid who meets the standard to determine spots

I once had a student with near-perfect auditory recall. The only test questions she got wrong was one where I had misstated something, once. Her mom had it too, and could quote my BTSN presentation to me. She is, to this day, the smartest kid I’ve taught. It would be unjust to cut her out of TJ for some political reason. I lost track of her when I moved, but I would be shocked if she didn’t get in.

And that's a big part of why, in spite of my sincere desire to see TJ admissions reformed, I do not support a lottery that could potentially exclude the 100 or so kids in each class that truly, genuinely belong there.

Then select the 50-100 kids who are a clear cut above the rest. Lottery the remaining spots on a racially representative basis. This wouldn't even change TJ much, aside from creating diversity. The top 50 or so kids in each class are standouts, and the remainder are indistinguishable from all of the other kids who made semifinalist but didn't get picked.

How do you "clearly" identify the 50-100 kids that are above the rest? You need objective criteria and there will not be an agreement on what are the objective criteria which is why TJ uses a holistic criteria. Also iff cutoff is 50, is it not unfair to the kid placed 51st?

You actually don't need objective criteria to figure this out. And there wouldn't be a cutoff. If the 51st kid is legitimately at the same level as the 50th, they'd get in. Same with the 52nd. If the dropoff is from 49 to 50, that's where the cutoff would be.

No 2 kids are the same. How do you determine 51st kid is at the same level as the 50th without objective criteria?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yeah not taking the Currie parent or employee posts seriously on this thread. Its self serving to rant about going to the FBI and trying to shut down the conversation. Obviously they have an interest in keeping things under wraps

Good for you and bless your heart. You are free to choose what you want to take seriously and what you consider to be "self serving rant" and to be as cynical as you choose. I'm not sure what it is you (or as many of you who are perpetuating this) are trying to achieve, but good luck with that.

I mean, I’ve tried to be clear.

The Quant-Q is supposed to be so secure that FCPS and TJ admissions are not allowed to release any prep materials. So plenty of kids and families believe that they have to go in relatively blind and have no idea what to expect. TJ admissions changed to this for the class of 2022 for this reason and to create this outcome, limiting the influence of prep and leveling the playing field.

From 2021 to 2022, the numbers of Asian admits went down by 10 points and the numbers of everyone else went up.

Then in 2023 and 24, the numbers went back to more or less regular.

TJ kids are saying that one specific prep center gave an amount of information that is supposed to be impossible, because no one who sees the exam is allowed to discuss it per their pledge.

Given that FCPS can not legally release materials to prep, they need to change the exam or else the admissions process will be unfair to anyone who didn’t pay thousands of dollars and spend hundreds of hours at this prep center.

Regardless of why this happened, or who is at fault, it happened and therefore the Quant-Q cannot be used. Familiarity with the problem types on this exam is a GIGANTIC advantage - many students who take it run out of time even if they have the ability to solve the problems.

QuantQ is a math/logical reasoning test. It is not rocket science or a mythical unicorn as it is being portrayed on this forum. Acing a math test of any type at or ahead of their grade level is the least of the problems for most kids applying to TJ. Most of them take Algebra2/Trig in 8th grade, have won or ranked high on a number of math competitions (math counts, math olympiad, VML, other school/city/state/national math bowls etc.) As far as Curie somehow getting access to "protected material" that nobody else has access to, I don't know what exactly the protected material is, but I found at least 6 TJHSST QuantQ books on Amazon from different prep centers (Solomon Academy, A4E, Young Scholars Circle). Just search for QuantQ on Amazon. My child and his friends all said at the time the the math portion of the TJ test, as well as for AOS/AET was much easier compared to what they had already been exposed to at school, at all the math competitions and at Curie. Go spend some time with 7th or 8th Grade kids at Rachel Carson or Longfellow. You'll quickly realize that they don't need any extra helping hand or shady tricks to ace QuantQ or any such math/reasoning test. Also, since the most important premise of your conspiracy theory is this supposed pledge, my child doesn't remember signing any pledge. But I'll take your word that there is a pledge since its been a few years now. Even if there is a pledge, I doubt it is enforceable against or even understood by a tween/teen. And the business model of this super secretive QuantQ test publisher that runs tests around the country relies on pledges given to tweens/teens, Really?

[Anonymous]

So how are all these students actually faring in SATs and APs? They all must be failing spectacularly, right?

What about scholastic competitions and tournaments?

Any research internships and published papers?

Must be doing terribly in PSAT?

[Anonymous]

[Anonymous]

[Anonymous]

[img]

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

*you’re. Hope prepping helps your kid with that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

*you’re. Hope prepping helps your kid with that.

Eliminate AAP and improve all schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yeah not taking the Currie parent or employee posts seriously on this thread. Its self serving to rant about going to the FBI and trying to shut down the conversation. Obviously they have an interest in keeping things under wraps

Good for you and bless your heart. You are free to choose what you want to take seriously and what you consider to be "self serving rant" and to be as cynical as you choose. I'm not sure what it is you (or as many of you who are perpetuating this) are trying to achieve, but good luck with that.

I mean, I’ve tried to be clear.

The Quant-Q is supposed to be so secure that FCPS and TJ admissions are not allowed to release any prep materials. So plenty of kids and families believe that they have to go in relatively blind and have no idea what to expect. TJ admissions changed to this for the class of 2022 for this reason and to create this outcome, limiting the influence of prep and leveling the playing field.

From 2021 to 2022, the numbers of Asian admits went down by 10 points and the numbers of everyone else went up.

Then in 2023 and 24, the numbers went back to more or less regular.

TJ kids are saying that one specific prep center gave an amount of information that is supposed to be impossible, because no one who sees the exam is allowed to discuss it per their pledge.

Given that FCPS can not legally release materials to prep, they need to change the exam or else the admissions process will be unfair to anyone who didn’t pay thousands of dollars and spend hundreds of hours at this prep center.

Regardless of why this happened, or who is at fault, it happened and therefore the Quant-Q cannot be used. Familiarity with the problem types on this exam is a GIGANTIC advantage - many students who take it run out of time even if they have the ability to solve the problems.

QuantQ is a math/logical reasoning test. It is not rocket science or a mythical unicorn as it is being portrayed on this forum. Acing a math test of any type at or ahead of their grade level is the least of the problems for most kids applying to TJ. Most of them take Algebra2/Trig in 8th grade, have won or ranked high on a number of math competitions (math counts, math olympiad, VML, other school/city/state/national math bowls etc.) As far as Curie somehow getting access to "protected material" that nobody else has access to, I don't know what exactly the protected material is, but I found at least 6 TJHSST QuantQ books on Amazon from different prep centers (Solomon Academy, A4E, Young Scholars Circle). Just search for QuantQ on Amazon. My child and his friends all said at the time the the math portion of the TJ test, as well as for AOS/AET was much easier compared to what they had already been exposed to at school, at all the math competitions and at Curie. Go spend some time with 7th or 8th Grade kids at Rachel Carson or Longfellow. You'll quickly realize that they don't need any extra helping hand or shady tricks to ace QuantQ or any such math/reasoning test. Also, since the most important premise of your conspiracy theory is this supposed pledge, my child doesn't remember signing any pledge. But I'll take your word that there is a pledge since its been a few years now. Even if there is a pledge, I doubt it is enforceable against or even understood by a tween/teen. And the business model of this super secretive QuantQ test publisher that runs tests around the country relies on pledges given to tweens/teens, Really?

Good grief. The Quant-Q is supposed to be a test of native quantitative ability. It should be very easy for some students and very difficult for others because it relies on mathematical reasoning ability and processing speed rather than pure math exposure and advancement.

Students are not exposed to these types of problems in any type of traditional schooling - even in AAP. But some students are naturally gifted at figuring these out - and that’s what using it for TJ admissions was for. Because it was secured. But students can be taught to identify these problems and how to strategize to solve them quickly and efficiently.

The point was to separate the kids who are truly gifted from the ones who had been prepped.

If you’ve been around TJ for any amount of time at all, you see students there who will run into something they’ve never seen before and completely freeze. They have no native problem-solving skills - they’ve spent their whole lives relying on being taught every single thing they know. These are the students who are at TJ because they have been prepped beyond their actual ability to masquerade as a student with real talent, and they struggle mightily when they arrive at TJ. They suffer from intense self-worth issues because their colleagues are so much more naturally talented than they are. They don’t have to stay up until 1 AM every night just to keep up. They get worse grades than their talented peers, and they get hammered by their parents, who invested tons of resources to get them to this point. And they get into worse colleges than their peers because they are compared with TJ students in the application process.

These are the kids who do not belong at TJ. But their parents love the social status, and the bumper sticker, and the feeling of superiority - bought and paid for with their kids’ emotional well-being. Seen it hundreds of times over the years. It’s one of the saddest parts of the TJ experience. And more talented, less advanced students don’t suffer that same fate. They just don’t. But they’re crowded out of a flawed process by parents who are obsessed with prestige and status at the expense of development.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yeah not taking the Currie parent or employee posts seriously on this thread. Its self serving to rant about going to the FBI and trying to shut down the conversation. Obviously they have an interest in keeping things under wraps

Good for you and bless your heart. You are free to choose what you want to take seriously and what you consider to be "self serving rant" and to be as cynical as you choose. I'm not sure what it is you (or as many of you who are perpetuating this) are trying to achieve, but good luck with that.

I mean, I’ve tried to be clear.

The Quant-Q is supposed to be so secure that FCPS and TJ admissions are not allowed to release any prep materials. So plenty of kids and families believe that they have to go in relatively blind and have no idea what to expect. TJ admissions changed to this for the class of 2022 for this reason and to create this outcome, limiting the influence of prep and leveling the playing field.

From 2021 to 2022, the numbers of Asian admits went down by 10 points and the numbers of everyone else went up.

Then in 2023 and 24, the numbers went back to more or less regular.

TJ kids are saying that one specific prep center gave an amount of information that is supposed to be impossible, because no one who sees the exam is allowed to discuss it per their pledge.

Given that FCPS can not legally release materials to prep, they need to change the exam or else the admissions process will be unfair to anyone who didn’t pay thousands of dollars and spend hundreds of hours at this prep center.

Regardless of why this happened, or who is at fault, it happened and therefore the Quant-Q cannot be used. Familiarity with the problem types on this exam is a GIGANTIC advantage - many students who take it run out of time even if they have the ability to solve the problems.

QuantQ is a math/logical reasoning test. It is not rocket science or a mythical unicorn as it is being portrayed on this forum. Acing a math test of any type at or ahead of their grade level is the least of the problems for most kids applying to TJ. Most of them take Algebra2/Trig in 8th grade, have won or ranked high on a number of math competitions (math counts, math olympiad, VML, other school/city/state/national math bowls etc.) As far as Curie somehow getting access to "protected material" that nobody else has access to, I don't know what exactly the protected material is, but I found at least 6 TJHSST QuantQ books on Amazon from different prep centers (Solomon Academy, A4E, Young Scholars Circle). Just search for QuantQ on Amazon. My child and his friends all said at the time the the math portion of the TJ test, as well as for AOS/AET was much easier compared to what they had already been exposed to at school, at all the math competitions and at Curie. Go spend some time with 7th or 8th Grade kids at Rachel Carson or Longfellow. You'll quickly realize that they don't need any extra helping hand or shady tricks to ace QuantQ or any such math/reasoning test. Also, since the most important premise of your conspiracy theory is this supposed pledge, my child doesn't remember signing any pledge. But I'll take your word that there is a pledge since its been a few years now. Even if there is a pledge, I doubt it is enforceable against or even understood by a tween/teen. And the business model of this super secretive QuantQ test publisher that runs tests around the country relies on pledges given to tweens/teens, Really?

Good grief. The Quant-Q is supposed to be a test of native quantitative ability. It should be very easy for some students and very difficult for others because it relies on mathematical reasoning ability and processing speed rather than pure math exposure and advancement.

Students are not exposed to these types of problems in any type of traditional schooling - even in AAP. But some students are naturally gifted at figuring these out - and that’s what using it for TJ admissions was for. Because it was secured. But students can be taught to identify these problems and how to strategize to solve them quickly and efficiently.

The point was to separate the kids who are truly gifted from the ones who had been prepped.

If you’ve been around TJ for any amount of time at all, you see students there who will run into something they’ve never seen before and completely freeze. They have no native problem-solving skills - they’ve spent their whole lives relying on being taught every single thing they know. These are the students who are at TJ because they have been prepped beyond their actual ability to masquerade as a student with real talent, and they struggle mightily when they arrive at TJ. They suffer from intense self-worth issues because their colleagues are so much more naturally talented than they are. They don’t have to stay up until 1 AM every night just to keep up. They get worse grades than their talented peers, and they get hammered by their parents, who invested tons of resources to get them to this point. And they get into worse colleges than their peers because they are compared with TJ students in the application process.

These are the kids who do not belong at TJ. But their parents love the social status, and the bumper sticker, and the feeling of superiority - bought and paid for with their kids’ emotional well-being. Seen it hundreds of times over the years. It’s one of the saddest parts of the TJ experience. And more talented, less advanced students don’t suffer that same fate. They just don’t. But they’re crowded out of a flawed process by parents who are obsessed with prestige and status at the expense of development.

And yes, if you are a gifted problem solver, the Quant-Q will be easier than an SHSAT-style algebra exam. If you are not, it will be much, much harder - unless someone has shown you how to identify the specific problem types and the precise strategies for solving each one. Prep for the Quant-Q makes the Quant-Q pointless.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yeah not taking the Currie parent or employee posts seriously on this thread. Its self serving to rant about going to the FBI and trying to shut down the conversation. Obviously they have an interest in keeping things under wraps

Good for you and bless your heart. You are free to choose what you want to take seriously and what you consider to be "self serving rant" and to be as cynical as you choose. I'm not sure what it is you (or as many of you who are perpetuating this) are trying to achieve, but good luck with that.

I mean, I’ve tried to be clear.

The Quant-Q is supposed to be so secure that FCPS and TJ admissions are not allowed to release any prep materials. So plenty of kids and families believe that they have to go in relatively blind and have no idea what to expect. TJ admissions changed to this for the class of 2022 for this reason and to create this outcome, limiting the influence of prep and leveling the playing field.

From 2021 to 2022, the numbers of Asian admits went down by 10 points and the numbers of everyone else went up.

Then in 2023 and 24, the numbers went back to more or less regular.

TJ kids are saying that one specific prep center gave an amount of information that is supposed to be impossible, because no one who sees the exam is allowed to discuss it per their pledge.

Given that FCPS can not legally release materials to prep, they need to change the exam or else the admissions process will be unfair to anyone who didn’t pay thousands of dollars and spend hundreds of hours at this prep center.

Regardless of why this happened, or who is at fault, it happened and therefore the Quant-Q cannot be used. Familiarity with the problem types on this exam is a GIGANTIC advantage - many students who take it run out of time even if they have the ability to solve the problems.

QuantQ is a math/logical reasoning test. It is not rocket science or a mythical unicorn as it is being portrayed on this forum. Acing a math test of any type at or ahead of their grade level is the least of the problems for most kids applying to TJ. Most of them take Algebra2/Trig in 8th grade, have won or ranked high on a number of math competitions (math counts, math olympiad, VML, other school/city/state/national math bowls etc.) As far as Curie somehow getting access to "protected material" that nobody else has access to, I don't know what exactly the protected material is, but I found at least 6 TJHSST QuantQ books on Amazon from different prep centers (Solomon Academy, A4E, Young Scholars Circle). Just search for QuantQ on Amazon. My child and his friends all said at the time the the math portion of the TJ test, as well as for AOS/AET was much easier compared to what they had already been exposed to at school, at all the math competitions and at Curie. Go spend some time with 7th or 8th Grade kids at Rachel Carson or Longfellow. You'll quickly realize that they don't need any extra helping hand or shady tricks to ace QuantQ or any such math/reasoning test. Also, since the most important premise of your conspiracy theory is this supposed pledge, my child doesn't remember signing any pledge. But I'll take your word that there is a pledge since its been a few years now. Even if there is a pledge, I doubt it is enforceable against or even understood by a tween/teen. And the business model of this super secretive QuantQ test publisher that runs tests around the country relies on pledges given to tweens/teens, Really?

Good grief. The Quant-Q is supposed to be a test of native quantitative ability. It should be very easy for some students and very difficult for others because it relies on mathematical reasoning ability and processing speed rather than pure math exposure and advancement.

Students are not exposed to these types of problems in any type of traditional schooling - even in AAP. But some students are naturally gifted at figuring these out - and that’s what using it for TJ admissions was for. Because it was secured. But students can be taught to identify these problems and how to strategize to solve them quickly and efficiently.

The point was to separate the kids who are truly gifted from the ones who had been prepped.

If you’ve been around TJ for any amount of time at all, you see students there who will run into something they’ve never seen before and completely freeze. They have no native problem-solving skills - they’ve spent their whole lives relying on being taught every single thing they know. These are the students who are at TJ because they have been prepped beyond their actual ability to masquerade as a student with real talent, and they struggle mightily when they arrive at TJ. They suffer from intense self-worth issues because their colleagues are so much more naturally talented than they are. They don’t have to stay up until 1 AM every night just to keep up. They get worse grades than their talented peers, and they get hammered by their parents, who invested tons of resources to get them to this point. And they get into worse colleges than their peers because they are compared with TJ students in the application process.

These are the kids who do not belong at TJ. But their parents love the social status, and the bumper sticker, and the feeling of superiority - bought and paid for with their kids’ emotional well-being. Seen it hundreds of times over the years. It’s one of the saddest parts of the TJ experience. And more talented, less advanced students don’t suffer that same fate. They just don’t. But they’re crowded out of a flawed process by parents who are obsessed with prestige and status at the expense of development.

And yes, if you are a gifted problem solver, the Quant-Q will be easier than an SHSAT-style algebra exam. If you are not, it will be much, much harder - unless someone has shown you how to identify the specific problem types and the precise strategies for solving each one. Prep for the Quant-Q makes the Quant-Q pointless.

Eliminate AAP and improve all schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Who wants to work hard for 4 years with relentless pressure and not have a normal teen dating/social life? C'mon and sign up here! Is TJ's program attractive to more students or is it a case of only interested students are signing up?

Maybe 10% will end up at an Ivy League school. 50% of those who apply to UVA will be rejected.

Unless the school starts admitting more well-rounded kids - if they do, watch those numbers go up QUICK

What are "well-rounded kids"? Why do you assume TJ kids are not well-rounded?

Plenty of TJ kids are well-rounded. Plenty of them are also not. If you are around TJ in any capacity, you know this. If they were, they'd have more success getting into schools like UVA. Perhaps not the Ivies, but definitely UVA.

TJ students as a cohort have the highest average GPA at UVA and attend the best graduate schools. UVA has decreased acceptance rate from TJ over time because their yield rate has been low. Top TJ students go elsewhere.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Who wants to work hard for 4 years with relentless pressure and not have a normal teen dating/social life? C'mon and sign up here! Is TJ's program attractive to more students or is it a case of only interested students are signing up?

Maybe 10% will end up at an Ivy League school. 50% of those who apply to UVA will be rejected.

Unless the school starts admitting more well-rounded kids - if they do, watch those numbers go up QUICK

What are "well-rounded kids"? Why do you assume TJ kids are not well-rounded?

Plenty of TJ kids are well-rounded. Plenty of them are also not. If you are around TJ in any capacity, you know this. If they were, they'd have more success getting into schools like UVA. Perhaps not the Ivies, but definitely UVA.

TJ students as a cohort have the highest average GPA at UVA and attend the best graduate schools. UVA has decreased acceptance rate from TJ over time because their yield rate has been low. Top TJ students go elsewhere.

So insecure you need to make excuses? The TJ students at UVA may have a higher GPA than other HS but it is because they have a much higher hurdle to jump to get in. They are compared to the top TJ applicants, many whom use UVA as a safety school. The lower half to 2/3 of TJ is not getting into the elite schools unless they have a strong hook.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Who wants to work hard for 4 years with relentless pressure and not have a normal teen dating/social life? C'mon and sign up here! Is TJ's program attractive to more students or is it a case of only interested students are signing up?

Maybe 10% will end up at an Ivy League school. 50% of those who apply to UVA will be rejected.

Unless the school starts admitting more well-rounded kids - if they do, watch those numbers go up QUICK

What are "well-rounded kids"? Why do you assume TJ kids are not well-rounded?

Plenty of TJ kids are well-rounded. Plenty of them are also not. If you are around TJ in any capacity, you know this. If they were, they'd have more success getting into schools like UVA. Perhaps not the Ivies, but definitely UVA.

TJ students as a cohort have the highest average GPA at UVA and attend the best graduate schools. UVA has decreased acceptance rate from TJ over time because their yield rate has been low. Top TJ students go elsewhere.

So insecure you need to make excuses? The TJ students at UVA may have a higher GPA than other HS but it is because they have a much higher hurdle to jump to get in. They are compared to the top TJ applicants, many whom use UVA as a safety school. The lower half to 2/3 of TJ is not getting into the elite schools unless they have a strong hook.

No, just saying UVA should be admitting more if they are the top performing students.