How does one prep place account for 25% of TJ Admissions?

[Anonymous]

Good discussion. Now I made up my mind on which prepping place to go to. Thanks for all responses.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Good discussion. Now I made up my mind on which prepping place to go to. Thanks for all responses.

Does it really cost $4,000 though. Not sure I want my kid in that bad.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Good discussion. Now I made up my mind on which prepping place to go to. Thanks for all responses.

Does it really cost $4,000 though. Not sure I want my kid in that bad.

Well, yes, it costs about $4000 in total, but it is a full 16 month curriculum starting from 7th grade, including the summer in between. Based on what I heard, It initially starts with 1 class a week with homework (both math and english) for first 5 months followed by a test to determine kids who are putting in effort (or showing interest) and able to absorb the material. I think the fee for this first phase is around $800 and only qualifying kids will need to pay the remaining amount for second and more intensive phase. Second phase will start with 2 classes a week and then moves to 3 classes a week in the later half. I believe, majority of the focus is on english as many of the kids are generally good at math already. Instructors generally assume, though not explicit about it, the kids who take this course are already at advanced level i.e. AAP or GT and taking algebra I in 7th grade. If not, it may be difficult to keep up the pace.

I think their curriculum essentially follows slightly trimmed down SAT and ACT material. So, even if the kid doesn't end up in TJ or AET (only about quarter of the students will get into to TJ or AET), this prepping will certainly help a lot in high school and make it easier for them to take SAT or ACT. I might send my kid just for this benefit, provided he will be mentally prepared for the additional load. Yeah, the prepping can get intensive and not every kid might able to handle it and I am sure some may even drop out. To manage all this, kids may need also a ton of support from parents. I think, they tell most of what I said here up front during orientation (?) and do not recommend this level prepping unless kids are ready for it. The math is taught by a retired Indian professor and his teaching style may need some getting used to, but english shouldn't be an issue. And yes, he hates kids having smart phones (and thinks its a major distraction for kids and biggest mistake that many parents make) and discourages fiction reading - wants kids to read non-fiction more

Believe or not believe, but I believe the owner (retired professor) does not appear to be doing this to make money. He needs to pay rent, many instructors who teach different courses/levels, material and does some charity as well. He is very passionate about education, even does a lot of 1-1 with kids or parents out of his personal time to provide advice and/or guidance. I am sure he makes enough to pay for his living expenses and some, but you don't generally commit so much of your post retirement time to education unless you are really passionate about it. He proudly claims, he taught over 25000 kids over his 40 year teaching career - I have attended his info/orientation sessions.

[Anonymous]

I sure hope the Washington Post and other media and the various leaders for FCPS and LCPS are aware of this crazy issue. I do hope that the TJ principal investigates the students that are involved. We have the names directly from Curie, so use that information. The more sunshine on these types of companies, the better.

28% from one company! Disgusting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Good discussion. Now I made up my mind on which prepping place to go to. Thanks for all responses.

Does it really cost $4,000 though. Not sure I want my kid in that bad.

It actually costs much more! $4,300 is just for the 7th grade course. Parents are pressured to start as early as possible, in 1st grade! So likely upwards of $20K for the entire process. (And you must have an Indian background to even be considered of course. No Koreans allowed!)

This company and the students that patronized it are BUYING access to TJ. And apparently are giving their students an actual copy of the test!

The current TJ admissions policies are implicitly rewarding this type of approach.

Enough is enough.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Hop on to the Curie Learning Facebook page and scroll through their photos. The lists from the class of 2023 and 2022 are in there. They deleted the list from 2024 after posting it on 8/17 - likely because they've been exposed.

If you read the names, they're literally almost all very obviously South Asian. There might be a couple of Sri Lankan or Bangladeshi names in there, but the level of consistency is staggering.

And yes, a big reason for the overwhelming Asian population majority of TJ is the applicant numbers. Numbers from demographics besides Asian have dropped precipitously as the school has become more Asian over the years, which is a source for some concern. Of bigger concern is that total applications have dropped by 20% since the class of 2022.

Substantially all of the kids at Curie are south asian/indian. But Curie is not TJ. My guess (based purely on my observation, not having access to any public data), the mix at TJ among asians between south and east asians would be 50:50. Data for other groups is publicly available (http://www.fcag.org/tjstatistics.shtml).

I think that's a pretty fair guess, 50:50. Although you have to wonder in this new class if that will still be the case under the current circumstances. Let's say Curie claims half of the South Asians in the current 2024 class. Meaning 260 or so South Asians and 100 or so East Asians. If we see that, I promise you that the Korean and Chinese communities will immediately become highly invested in CurieGate.

There is no CurieGate. Assuming you are an adult, please stop perpetuating this without any basis other than a couple anecdotes from teenagers on TJ Vents. You are demeaning groups of people you don't know and have never met without any basis. Parents/children who are motivated to try for TJ prep for it. Curie is the most popular prep center among south asians, just as Sunshine Academy is for east asians (which claims 85 of their students admitted in CO 2024). There might be other prep centers. I just don't know of them.

youd do well to stop assuming that only one person is exposing this - also unless ur an employee of curie you have no idea whether or not this is a real thing - and if you are no one is going to take you seriously

I'm a TJ parent and I am assuming nothing. My child attended Curie few years ago. What he got out of Curie was discipline, rigor, lots of practice of math and english content, good peer group, time management practice from taking practice tests, exposure to/career advice from successful STEM professionals. All of that has been helpful to him to this day. I don't know and have never heard of any of this purported "CurieGate" activity and would not stand for it if I did. Although I don't know Dr. Rao very well, from my limited interaction with him he seemed to be a very nice man, upstanding, professional, mentor, and is highly respected. I have nothing to gain or lose from this discussion, but I don't mind speaking up when I see something disquieting.

Totally fine. Sounds like you had a great experience and that’s awesome. No doubt Curie does many wonderful things for students. It sounds like you probably are not involved in the classes that were impacted by this situation and therefore don’t know about it - which is great for your family. When TJ kids say this is a real thing, and identify themselves in doing so, I choose to believe them.

Sometimes circumstantial evidence is overwhelming. Sometimes people do things that are very, very wrong for very, very noble reasons in their minds. And sometimes they do things that are wrong without even knowing it.

But one thing that is unarguable is that this company, as a private test prep entity, posts the first and last names of students (children!) on their Facebook page in an attempt to drive business, which is a major privacy issue that is going to have consequences for them when they get back to school this year from their colleagues. And that lack of judgment leads me to believe that further lack of judgment is not only possible, but very likely. In today’s doxxing environment, you don’t post names of kids. You just don’t.

Parents, if you sign up for this company, just know that your child’s name and likely photo will be broadcast out by the Curie. His business model depends on the Indian community believing that they can buy their way into TJ and “special” access to the test.

[Anonymous]

They learn to cheat together at prep class. It’s very easy to cheat in HS. Former TJ parent.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I sure hope the Washington Post and other media and the various leaders for FCPS and LCPS are aware of this crazy issue. I do hope that the TJ principal investigates the students that are involved. We have the names directly from Curie, so use that information. The more sunshine on these types of companies, the better.

28% from one company! Disgusting.

Nothing will ever happen. TJ has unfortunately been a victim of its college admissions success. They don’t care about anything else. It’s corrupt. And complacent. The system has been played perfectly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I sure hope the Washington Post and other media and the various leaders for FCPS and LCPS are aware of this crazy issue. I do hope that the TJ principal investigates the students that are involved. We have the names directly from Curie, so use that information. The more sunshine on these types of companies, the better.

28% from one company! Disgusting.

Nothing will ever happen. TJ has unfortunately been a victim of its college admissions success. They don’t care about anything else. It’s corrupt. And complacent. The system has been played perfectly.

It is FCPS that has to change the Admissions process, and they are currently researching ways to do so. One imagines that CurieGate (grabbed that from a previous poster - hilarious) is going to have an impact on the urgency with which they address the problem.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Good discussion. Now I made up my mind on which prepping place to go to. Thanks for all responses.

Does it really cost $4,000 though. Not sure I want my kid in that bad.

Well, yes, it costs about $4000 in total, but it is a full 16 month curriculum starting from 7th grade, including the summer in between. Based on what I heard, It initially starts with 1 class a week with homework (both math and english) for first 5 months followed by a test to determine kids who are putting in effort (or showing interest) and able to absorb the material. I think the fee for this first phase is around $800 and only qualifying kids will need to pay the remaining amount for second and more intensive phase. Second phase will start with 2 classes a week and then moves to 3 classes a week in the later half. I believe, majority of the focus is on english as many of the kids are generally good at math already. Instructors generally assume, though not explicit about it, the kids who take this course are already at advanced level i.e. AAP or GT and taking algebra I in 7th grade. If not, it may be difficult to keep up the pace.

I think their curriculum essentially follows slightly trimmed down SAT and ACT material. So, even if the kid doesn't end up in TJ or AET (only about quarter of the students will get into to TJ or AET), this prepping will certainly help a lot in high school and make it easier for them to take SAT or ACT. I might send my kid just for this benefit, provided he will be mentally prepared for the additional load. Yeah, the prepping can get intensive and not every kid might able to handle it and I am sure some may even drop out. To manage all this, kids may need also a ton of support from parents. I think, they tell most of what I said here up front during orientation (?) and do not recommend this level prepping unless kids are ready for it. The math is taught by a retired Indian professor and his teaching style may need some getting used to, but english shouldn't be an issue. And yes, he hates kids having smart phones (and thinks its a major distraction for kids and biggest mistake that many parents make) and discourages fiction reading - wants kids to read non-fiction more

Believe or not believe, but I believe the owner (retired professor) does not appear to be doing this to make money. He needs to pay rent, many instructors who teach different courses/levels, material and does some charity as well. He is very passionate about education, even does a lot of 1-1 with kids or parents out of his personal time to provide advice and/or guidance. I am sure he makes enough to pay for his living expenses and some, but you don't generally commit so much of your post retirement time to education unless you are really passionate about it. He proudly claims, he taught over 25000 kids over his 40 year teaching career - I have attended his info/orientation sessions.

Two points:

1) I've worked in marketing for several years, and this is marketing material if it ever existed. The quoted post was written by someone with a stake in Curie - of that I have no doubt.

2) It sounds like they artificially enhance their success rate by essentially cutting kids out of the process if they don't look like a successful candidate AFTER FIVE MONTHS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Hop on to the Curie Learning Facebook page and scroll through their photos. The lists from the class of 2023 and 2022 are in there. They deleted the list from 2024 after posting it on 8/17 - likely because they've been exposed.

If you read the names, they're literally almost all very obviously South Asian. There might be a couple of Sri Lankan or Bangladeshi names in there, but the level of consistency is staggering.

And yes, a big reason for the overwhelming Asian population majority of TJ is the applicant numbers. Numbers from demographics besides Asian have dropped precipitously as the school has become more Asian over the years, which is a source for some concern. Of bigger concern is that total applications have dropped by 20% since the class of 2022.

Substantially all of the kids at Curie are south asian/indian. But Curie is not TJ. My guess (based purely on my observation, not having access to any public data), the mix at TJ among asians between south and east asians would be 50:50. Data for other groups is publicly available (http://www.fcag.org/tjstatistics.shtml).

I think that's a pretty fair guess, 50:50. Although you have to wonder in this new class if that will still be the case under the current circumstances. Let's say Curie claims half of the South Asians in the current 2024 class. Meaning 260 or so South Asians and 100 or so East Asians. If we see that, I promise you that the Korean and Chinese communities will immediately become highly invested in CurieGate.

There is no CurieGate. Assuming you are an adult, please stop perpetuating this without any basis other than a couple anecdotes from teenagers on TJ Vents. You are demeaning groups of people you don't know and have never met without any basis. Parents/children who are motivated to try for TJ prep for it. Curie is the most popular prep center among south asians, just as Sunshine Academy is for east asians (which claims 85 of their students admitted in CO 2024). There might be other prep centers. I just don't know of them.

youd do well to stop assuming that only one person is exposing this - also unless ur an employee of curie you have no idea whether or not this is a real thing - and if you are no one is going to take you seriously

I'm a TJ parent and I am assuming nothing. My child attended Curie few years ago. What he got out of Curie was discipline, rigor, lots of practice of math and english content, good peer group, time management practice from taking practice tests, exposure to/career advice from successful STEM professionals. All of that has been helpful to him to this day. I don't know and have never heard of any of this purported "CurieGate" activity and would not stand for it if I did. Although I don't know Dr. Rao very well, from my limited interaction with him he seemed to be a very nice man, upstanding, professional, mentor, and is highly respected. I have nothing to gain or lose from this discussion, but I don't mind speaking up when I see something disquieting.

Totally fine. Sounds like you had a great experience and that’s awesome. No doubt Curie does many wonderful things for students. It sounds like you probably are not involved in the classes that were impacted by this situation and therefore don’t know about it - which is great for your family. When TJ kids say this is a real thing, and identify themselves in doing so, I choose to believe them.

Sometimes circumstantial evidence is overwhelming. Sometimes people do things that are very, very wrong for very, very noble reasons in their minds. And sometimes they do things that are wrong without even knowing it.

But one thing that is unarguable is that this company, as a private test prep entity, posts the first and last names of students (children!) on their Facebook page in an attempt to drive business, which is a major privacy issue that is going to have consequences for them when they get back to school this year from their colleagues. And that lack of judgment leads me to believe that further lack of judgment is not only possible, but very likely. In today’s doxxing environment, you don’t post names of kids. You just don’t.

Parents, if you sign up for this company, just know that your child’s name and likely photo will be broadcast out by the Curie. His business model depends on the Indian community believing that they can buy their way into TJ and “special” access to the test.

Fun story - on their Facebook page they have now removed the lists from the class of 2024 AND 2023 - the two classes that are compromised by this scandal - but left the list from the class of 2022, which is by far the least impressive because it has far fewer kids on it.

Why would you remove your best marketing tools from your Facebook page and leave something on there that's very similar?

This gets fishier by the minute....

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:They learn to cheat together at prep class. It’s very easy to cheat in HS. Former TJ parent.

And this year will be even easier. The same parents that bought their children into TJ will be hiring someone to do the work and/or teaching them how to quickly google answers to tests.

What a freaking mess. Any child that has integrity will be at a severe disadvantage. That’s just the incentives that the TJ admissions process and the TJ admins have built into the system.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Hop on to the Curie Learning Facebook page and scroll through their photos. The lists from the class of 2023 and 2022 are in there. They deleted the list from 2024 after posting it on 8/17 - likely because they've been exposed.

If you read the names, they're literally almost all very obviously South Asian. There might be a couple of Sri Lankan or Bangladeshi names in there, but the level of consistency is staggering.

And yes, a big reason for the overwhelming Asian population majority of TJ is the applicant numbers. Numbers from demographics besides Asian have dropped precipitously as the school has become more Asian over the years, which is a source for some concern. Of bigger concern is that total applications have dropped by 20% since the class of 2022.

Substantially all of the kids at Curie are south asian/indian. But Curie is not TJ. My guess (based purely on my observation, not having access to any public data), the mix at TJ among asians between south and east asians would be 50:50. Data for other groups is publicly available (http://www.fcag.org/tjstatistics.shtml).

I think that's a pretty fair guess, 50:50. Although you have to wonder in this new class if that will still be the case under the current circumstances. Let's say Curie claims half of the South Asians in the current 2024 class. Meaning 260 or so South Asians and 100 or so East Asians. If we see that, I promise you that the Korean and Chinese communities will immediately become highly invested in CurieGate.

There is no CurieGate. Assuming you are an adult, please stop perpetuating this without any basis other than a couple anecdotes from teenagers on TJ Vents. You are demeaning groups of people you don't know and have never met without any basis. Parents/children who are motivated to try for TJ prep for it. Curie is the most popular prep center among south asians, just as Sunshine Academy is for east asians (which claims 85 of their students admitted in CO 2024). There might be other prep centers. I just don't know of them.

youd do well to stop assuming that only one person is exposing this - also unless ur an employee of curie you have no idea whether or not this is a real thing - and if you are no one is going to take you seriously

I'm a TJ parent and I am assuming nothing. My child attended Curie few years ago. What he got out of Curie was discipline, rigor, lots of practice of math and english content, good peer group, time management practice from taking practice tests, exposure to/career advice from successful STEM professionals. All of that has been helpful to him to this day. I don't know and have never heard of any of this purported "CurieGate" activity and would not stand for it if I did. Although I don't know Dr. Rao very well, from my limited interaction with him he seemed to be a very nice man, upstanding, professional, mentor, and is highly respected. I have nothing to gain or lose from this discussion, but I don't mind speaking up when I see something disquieting.

Totally fine. Sounds like you had a great experience and that’s awesome. No doubt Curie does many wonderful things for students. It sounds like you probably are not involved in the classes that were impacted by this situation and therefore don’t know about it - which is great for your family. When TJ kids say this is a real thing, and identify themselves in doing so, I choose to believe them.

Sometimes circumstantial evidence is overwhelming. Sometimes people do things that are very, very wrong for very, very noble reasons in their minds. And sometimes they do things that are wrong without even knowing it.

But one thing that is unarguable is that this company, as a private test prep entity, posts the first and last names of students (children!) on their Facebook page in an attempt to drive business, which is a major privacy issue that is going to have consequences for them when they get back to school this year from their colleagues. And that lack of judgment leads me to believe that further lack of judgment is not only possible, but very likely. In today’s doxxing environment, you don’t post names of kids. You just don’t.

Parents, if you sign up for this company, just know that your child’s name and likely photo will be broadcast out by the Curie. His business model depends on the Indian community believing that they can buy their way into TJ and “special” access to the test.

Fun story - on their Facebook page they have now removed the lists from the class of 2024 AND 2023 - the two classes that are compromised by this scandal - but left the list from the class of 2022, which is by far the least impressive because it has far fewer kids on it.

Why would you remove your best marketing tools from your Facebook page and leave something on there that's very similar?

This gets fishier by the minute....

Wow.

Good think nothing is every truly gone on the FaceBooke and internet. Lol that they though taking down the post would remove the information.

[Anonymous]

Believe or not believe, but I believe the owner (retired professor) does not appear to be doing this to make money. He needs to pay rent, many instructors who teach different courses/levels, material and does some charity as well. He is very passionate about education, even does a lot of 1-1 with kids or parents out of his personal time to provide advice and/or guidance. I am sure he makes enough to pay for his living expenses and some, but you don't generally commit so much of your post retirement time to education unless you are really passionate about it. He proudly claims, he taught over 25000 kids over his 40 year teaching career - I have attended his info/orientation sessions.

This made me laugh. Of course he is making money. There is no way he is not making money. He is charging $4,300 per kid for this one prep practice. How many kids are taking this course? Let's say that it averages 2 days over the course of the entire program. So he is paying Instructors/Tutors for maybe 5-8 hours of work a week for the one class. I doubt that the rent in that high. Dude has 5 locations running programs. There is no way that he is not making a nice amount of money.

http://www.curielearning.com/downloads/pdf/Schedule.pdf This link will take you to the rates for the various course offerings and fees. There is prep starting in first grade with special classes for the NNAT, CogAT, IOWA and SOL7, and TJ.

[Anonymous]

There are going to be a lot families that wasted their money over the past year on these courses when they find out that the admissions process is changing. It just goes to show you what a sucker bet these test prep companies are.

There is no way that TJ Admissions can administer an exam for the class of 2025. They won't be able to do it in person because of covid, and they won't be able to do it online because of cheating. In a way, CurieGate is going to end up contributing to a perfect storm that results in lasting change to the TJ admissions nightmare.