How does one prep place account for 25% of TJ Admissions?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Hop on to the Curie Learning Facebook page and scroll through their photos. The lists from the class of 2023 and 2022 are in there. They deleted the list from 2024 after posting it on 8/17 - likely because they've been exposed.

If you read the names, they're literally almost all very obviously South Asian. There might be a couple of Sri Lankan or Bangladeshi names in there, but the level of consistency is staggering.

And yes, a big reason for the overwhelming Asian population majority of TJ is the applicant numbers. Numbers from demographics besides Asian have dropped precipitously as the school has become more Asian over the years, which is a source for some concern. Of bigger concern is that total applications have dropped by 20% since the class of 2022.

Substantially all of the kids at Curie are south asian/indian. But Curie is not TJ. My guess (based purely on my observation, not having access to any public data), the mix at TJ among asians between south and east asians would be 50:50. Data for other groups is publicly available (http://www.fcag.org/tjstatistics.shtml).

I think that's a pretty fair guess, 50:50. Although you have to wonder in this new class if that will still be the case under the current circumstances. Let's say Curie claims half of the South Asians in the current 2024 class. Meaning 260 or so South Asians and 100 or so East Asians. If we see that, I promise you that the Korean and Chinese communities will immediately become highly invested in CurieGate.

There is no CurieGate. Assuming you are an adult, please stop perpetuating this without any basis other than a couple anecdotes from teenagers on TJ Vents. You are demeaning groups of people you don't know and have never met without any basis. Parents/children who are motivated to try for TJ prep for it. Curie is the most popular prep center among south asians, just as Sunshine Academy is for east asians (which claims 85 of their students admitted in CO 2024). There might be other prep centers. I just don't know of them.

youd do well to stop assuming that only one person is exposing this - also unless ur an employee of curie you have no idea whether or not this is a real thing - and if you are no one is going to take you seriously

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Who wants to work hard for 4 years with relentless pressure and not have a normal teen dating/social life? C'mon and sign up here! Is TJ's program attractive to more students or is it a case of only interested students are signing up?

Maybe 10% will end up at an Ivy League school. 50% of those who apply to UVA will be rejected.

Unless the school starts admitting more well-rounded kids - if they do, watch those numbers go up QUICK

What are "well-rounded kids"? Why do you assume TJ kids are not well-rounded?

Plenty of TJ kids are well-rounded. Plenty of them are also not. If you are around TJ in any capacity, you know this. If they were, they'd have more success getting into schools like UVA. Perhaps not the Ivies, but definitely UVA.

I'm a TJ parent and I am not in the business of judging other children. My child is happy at school, has a good group of friends, and is pretty well-rounded for me. That is all that matters. And, what is the fascination with UVA? College acceptance rates from TJ are quite good. But we'll cross that bridge when we get there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Hop on to the Curie Learning Facebook page and scroll through their photos. The lists from the class of 2023 and 2022 are in there. They deleted the list from 2024 after posting it on 8/17 - likely because they've been exposed.

If you read the names, they're literally almost all very obviously South Asian. There might be a couple of Sri Lankan or Bangladeshi names in there, but the level of consistency is staggering.

And yes, a big reason for the overwhelming Asian population majority of TJ is the applicant numbers. Numbers from demographics besides Asian have dropped precipitously as the school has become more Asian over the years, which is a source for some concern. Of bigger concern is that total applications have dropped by 20% since the class of 2022.

Substantially all of the kids at Curie are south asian/indian. But Curie is not TJ. My guess (based purely on my observation, not having access to any public data), the mix at TJ among asians between south and east asians would be 50:50. Data for other groups is publicly available (http://www.fcag.org/tjstatistics.shtml).

I think that's a pretty fair guess, 50:50. Although you have to wonder in this new class if that will still be the case under the current circumstances. Let's say Curie claims half of the South Asians in the current 2024 class. Meaning 260 or so South Asians and 100 or so East Asians. If we see that, I promise you that the Korean and Chinese communities will immediately become highly invested in CurieGate.

There is no CurieGate. Assuming you are an adult, please stop perpetuating this without any basis other than a couple anecdotes from teenagers on TJ Vents. You are demeaning groups of people you don't know and have never met without any basis. Parents/children who are motivated to try for TJ prep for it. Curie is the most popular prep center among south asians, just as Sunshine Academy is for east asians (which claims 85 of their students admitted in CO 2024). There might be other prep centers. I just don't know of them.

youd do well to stop assuming that only one person is exposing this - also unless ur an employee of curie you have no idea whether or not this is a real thing - and if you are no one is going to take you seriously

I'm a TJ parent and I am assuming nothing. My child attended Curie few years ago. What he got out of Curie was discipline, rigor, lots of practice of math and english content, good peer group, time management practice from taking practice tests, exposure to/career advice from successful STEM professionals. All of that has been helpful to him to this day. I don't know and have never heard of any of this purported "CurieGate" activity and would not stand for it if I did. Although I don't know Dr. Rao very well, from my limited interaction with him he seemed to be a very nice man, upstanding, professional, mentor, and is highly respected. I have nothing to gain or lose from this discussion, but I don't mind speaking up when I see something disquieting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Race is not at issue here, but any reasonable observer has to conclude that it's really weird that basically all of these kids are of Indian descent. Clearly they studied the material hard, and congratulations to them for their acceptance. I have no issue with them. It would be really weird if they were all white or all Korean or all Black too. It's one thing when you have a majority, or even a supermajority, but like this? That's weird.

1. Don't know how you concluded "basically all of these kids are of Indian descent". I haven't seen any published demographic data that breaks down to any level below "Asian". My child is a TJ student and based on just my observation whenever I visited the school for BTSN, orientation etc, I suspect among asians it would be an even split between south and east asians.

2. The disproportionate enrollment of asians is reflected in the disproportionate ratio of asians in the applicant pool, which reflects the level of interest among asians to try for TJ. The slightly higher acceptance rate for asians compared to other groups is also not that surprising given the higher relative academic performance of asians in elementary and high school (reflected in SOLs and grades, which is publicly available date). Since you are a TJ advocate, you have probably seen the demographic data, but here it is anyways (http://www.fcag.org/TJ Admissions class of 2024.pdf):
Ethnic Applicant % Admitted % Acceptance rate
Asian 1423 56% 355 73% 25%
White 595 23% 86 18% 14%
Other 521 21% 45 9% 9%
Total 2539 100% 486 100% 19%

Hop on to the Curie Learning Facebook page and scroll through their photos. The lists from the class of 2023 and 2022 are in there. They deleted the list from 2024 after posting it on 8/17 - likely because they've been exposed.

If you read the names, they're literally almost all very obviously South Asian. There might be a couple of Sri Lankan or Bangladeshi names in there, but the level of consistency is staggering.

And yes, a big reason for the overwhelming Asian population majority of TJ is the applicant numbers. Numbers from demographics besides Asian have dropped precipitously as the school has become more Asian over the years, which is a source for some concern. Of bigger concern is that total applications have dropped by 20% since the class of 2022.

https://imgur.com/gallery/JFvI9Zd

This is the class of 2024 from the Curie August 17th Facebook post

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
I 100% believe that shady things are happening at specific test prep centers. I'm saddened that current students seem to be okay with that, much like they seem to be okay with rampant cheating just to get through basic their four years there. But just like the rise of private "college application counselors" when I was in high school, where wealthy parents paid for EXTENSIVE manipulation of their child's essays and application package - on evidence at TJ still today in the explosion of clubs and activities so that everyone can be "president" or "chair" of something - trying to get the parents of these kids NOT to cheat and game the academic system in favor of their children is like playing whack-a-mole. I'm with PP(s) who have opined that an entirely school-based identification, application, and selection process is the only way to even attempt to curb this influence, and it needs to start with AAP selection.

Your belief counts for nothing. It has to be grounded in some verifiable basis. The world is littered with conspiracy theorists, anti-vaxxers, science-deniers, flat-earthers. Many hold those beliefs for convenience, but many others hold those convictions very strongly.

The rest of your statement flows from your belief, for which I have seen no concrete basis.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Who wants to work hard for 4 years with relentless pressure and not have a normal teen dating/social life? C'mon and sign up here! Is TJ's program attractive to more students or is it a case of only interested students are signing up?

Maybe 10% will end up at an Ivy League school. 50% of those who apply to UVA will be rejected.

Unless the school starts admitting more well-rounded kids - if they do, watch those numbers go up QUICK

What are "well-rounded kids"? Why do you assume TJ kids are not well-rounded?

Plenty of TJ kids are well-rounded. Plenty of them are also not. If you are around TJ in any capacity, you know this. If they were, they'd have more success getting into schools like UVA. Perhaps not the Ivies, but definitely UVA.

I'm a TJ parent and I am not in the business of judging other children. My child is happy at school, has a good group of friends, and is pretty well-rounded for me. That is all that matters. And, what is the fascination with UVA? College acceptance rates from TJ are quite good. But we'll cross that bridge when we get there.

That’s awesome! Hoping your kid continues to have a great experience and that there will be more like them in the future.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Hop on to the Curie Learning Facebook page and scroll through their photos. The lists from the class of 2023 and 2022 are in there. They deleted the list from 2024 after posting it on 8/17 - likely because they've been exposed.

If you read the names, they're literally almost all very obviously South Asian. There might be a couple of Sri Lankan or Bangladeshi names in there, but the level of consistency is staggering.

And yes, a big reason for the overwhelming Asian population majority of TJ is the applicant numbers. Numbers from demographics besides Asian have dropped precipitously as the school has become more Asian over the years, which is a source for some concern. Of bigger concern is that total applications have dropped by 20% since the class of 2022.

Substantially all of the kids at Curie are south asian/indian. But Curie is not TJ. My guess (based purely on my observation, not having access to any public data), the mix at TJ among asians between south and east asians would be 50:50. Data for other groups is publicly available (http://www.fcag.org/tjstatistics.shtml).

I think that's a pretty fair guess, 50:50. Although you have to wonder in this new class if that will still be the case under the current circumstances. Let's say Curie claims half of the South Asians in the current 2024 class. Meaning 260 or so South Asians and 100 or so East Asians. If we see that, I promise you that the Korean and Chinese communities will immediately become highly invested in CurieGate.

There is no CurieGate. Assuming you are an adult, please stop perpetuating this without any basis other than a couple anecdotes from teenagers on TJ Vents. You are demeaning groups of people you don't know and have never met without any basis. Parents/children who are motivated to try for TJ prep for it. Curie is the most popular prep center among south asians, just as Sunshine Academy is for east asians (which claims 85 of their students admitted in CO 2024). There might be other prep centers. I just don't know of them.

youd do well to stop assuming that only one person is exposing this - also unless ur an employee of curie you have no idea whether or not this is a real thing - and if you are no one is going to take you seriously

I'm a TJ parent and I am assuming nothing. My child attended Curie few years ago. What he got out of Curie was discipline, rigor, lots of practice of math and english content, good peer group, time management practice from taking practice tests, exposure to/career advice from successful STEM professionals. All of that has been helpful to him to this day. I don't know and have never heard of any of this purported "CurieGate" activity and would not stand for it if I did. Although I don't know Dr. Rao very well, from my limited interaction with him he seemed to be a very nice man, upstanding, professional, mentor, and is highly respected. I have nothing to gain or lose from this discussion, but I don't mind speaking up when I see something disquieting.

Totally fine. Sounds like you had a great experience and that’s awesome. No doubt Curie does many wonderful things for students. It sounds like you probably are not involved in the classes that were impacted by this situation and therefore don’t know about it - which is great for your family. When TJ kids say this is a real thing, and identify themselves in doing so, I choose to believe them.

Sometimes circumstantial evidence is overwhelming. Sometimes people do things that are very, very wrong for very, very noble reasons in their minds. And sometimes they do things that are wrong without even knowing it.

But one thing that is unarguable is that this company, as a private test prep entity, posts the first and last names of students (children!) on their Facebook page in an attempt to drive business, which is a major privacy issue that is going to have consequences for them when they get back to school this year from their colleagues. And that lack of judgment leads me to believe that further lack of judgment is not only possible, but very likely. In today’s doxxing environment, you don’t post names of kids. You just don’t.

[Anonymous]

Yeah not taking the Currie parent or employee posts seriously on this thread. Its self serving to rant about going to the FBI and trying to shut down the conversation. Obviously they have an interest in keeping things under wraps

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote: And yes, a big reason for the overwhelming Asian population majority of TJ is the applicant numbers. Numbers from demographics besides Asian have dropped precipitously as the school has become more Asian over the years, which is a source for some concern. Of bigger concern is that total applications have dropped by 20% since the class of 2022.

It's a source of concern for who? There are no barriers to applying. If parents/kids don't apply because they are not interested, then that is their choice. If they don't apply because of the demographics, even if they are interested, then they should check their bias/stereotype filter. It is their problem and nobody else's. If they don't apply because they don't expect to be accepted or are not prepared to invest the time and effort required, they should know that it is a selective school with a competitive admissions process, but the process is fair and quite transparent, and as a whole, selects the ones who come out on top of the admission criteria. There are many other kids who are motivated enough, and put in the effort, not just in 8th grade, but throughout upper elementary and middle school years. So, it is their choice to make whether to apply or not. And finally, TJ is still just another school. The child has almost the same opportunity at whatever school they go to, to pursue their interest.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: And yes, a big reason for the overwhelming Asian population majority of TJ is the applicant numbers. Numbers from demographics besides Asian have dropped precipitously as the school has become more Asian over the years, which is a source for some concern. Of bigger concern is that total applications have dropped by 20% since the class of 2022.

It's a source of concern for who? There are no barriers to applying. If parents/kids don't apply because they are not interested, then that is their choice. If they don't apply because of the demographics, even if they are interested, then they should check their bias/stereotype filter. It is their problem and nobody else's. If they don't apply because they don't expect to be accepted or are not prepared to invest the time and effort required, they should know that it is a selective school with a competitive admissions process, but the process is fair and quite transparent, and as a whole, selects the ones who come out on top of the admission criteria. There are many other kids who are motivated enough, and put in the effort, not just in 8th grade, but throughout upper elementary and middle school years. So, it is their choice to make whether to apply or not. And finally, TJ is still just another school. The child has almost the same opportunity at whatever school they go to, to pursue their interest.

It is not a good thing for FCPS when interest in their flagship school, which serves students from five jurisdictions, plummets by 20% in the space of two years. Population in those areas has exploded in the past dozen years and yet TJ has fewer applicants than they did a dozen years ago. That’s a bad sign for FCPS and it means that it’s time for a change.

It’s kind of hollow to have the #1 school in the country if there are huge sections of talented kids in the population who have no interest in attending.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
But one thing that is unarguable is that this company, as a private test prep entity, posts the first and last names of students (children!) on their Facebook page in an attempt to drive business, which is a major privacy issue that is going to have consequences for them when they get back to school this year from their colleagues. And that lack of judgment leads me to believe that further lack of judgment is not only possible, but very likely. In today’s doxxing environment, you don’t post names of kids. You just don’t.

The names are posted with the parents consent. Curie doesn't know if a child is accepted unless the parent/child tells them. It's no different from the parent/child posting on their own social media page.

Every year TJ student body posts a newsletter publicly of graduating seniors (who consent and self report, although almost all do) with their names and the name of the college they accept admission at. AOS/AET posts this on their website. Most other schools either do it on their website or along the walls of their hallway.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
But one thing that is unarguable is that this company, as a private test prep entity, posts the first and last names of students (children!) on their Facebook page in an attempt to drive business, which is a major privacy issue that is going to have consequences for them when they get back to school this year from their colleagues. And that lack of judgment leads me to believe that further lack of judgment is not only possible, but very likely. In today’s doxxing environment, you don’t post names of kids. You just don’t.

The names are posted with the parents consent. Curie doesn't know if a child is accepted unless the parent/child tells them. It's no different from the parent/child posting on their own social media page.

Every year TJ student body posts a newsletter publicly of graduating seniors (who consent and self report, although almost all do) with their names and the name of the college they accept admission at. AOS/AET posts this on their website. Most other schools either do it on their website or along the walls of their hallway.

TJ does this on their student newspaper, not their website or an official Facebook page. When they publish names - and this is now standard practice in schools, they will usually post first name, last initial, graduating year, like Thomas J., ‘21.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yeah not taking the Currie parent or employee posts seriously on this thread. Its self serving to rant about going to the FBI and trying to shut down the conversation. Obviously they have an interest in keeping things under wraps

Good for you and bless your heart. You are free to choose what you want to take seriously and what you consider to be "self serving rant" and to be as cynical as you choose. I'm not sure what it is you (or as many of you who are perpetuating this) are trying to achieve, but good luck with that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yeah not taking the Currie parent or employee posts seriously on this thread. Its self serving to rant about going to the FBI and trying to shut down the conversation. Obviously they have an interest in keeping things under wraps

Good for you and bless your heart. You are free to choose what you want to take seriously and what you consider to be "self serving rant" and to be as cynical as you choose. I'm not sure what it is you (or as many of you who are perpetuating this) are trying to achieve, but good luck with that.

I mean, I’ve tried to be clear.

The Quant-Q is supposed to be so secure that FCPS and TJ admissions are not allowed to release any prep materials. So plenty of kids and families believe that they have to go in relatively blind and have no idea what to expect. TJ admissions changed to this for the class of 2022 for this reason and to create this outcome, limiting the influence of prep and leveling the playing field.

From 2021 to 2022, the numbers of Asian admits went down by 10 points and the numbers of everyone else went up.

Then in 2023 and 24, the numbers went back to more or less regular.

TJ kids are saying that one specific prep center gave an amount of information that is supposed to be impossible, because no one who sees the exam is allowed to discuss it per their pledge.

Given that FCPS can not legally release materials to prep, they need to change the exam or else the admissions process will be unfair to anyone who didn’t pay thousands of dollars and spend hundreds of hours at this prep center.

Regardless of why this happened, or who is at fault, it happened and therefore the Quant-Q cannot be used. Familiarity with the problem types on this exam is a GIGANTIC advantage - many students who take it run out of time even if they have the ability to solve the problems.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I 100% believe that shady things are happening at specific test prep centers. I'm saddened that current students seem to be okay with that, much like they seem to be okay with rampant cheating just to get through basic their four years there. But just like the rise of private "college application counselors" when I was in high school, where wealthy parents paid for EXTENSIVE manipulation of their child's essays and application package - on evidence at TJ still today in the explosion of clubs and activities so that everyone can be "president" or "chair" of something - trying to get the parents of these kids NOT to cheat and game the academic system in favor of their children is like playing whack-a-mole. I'm with PP(s) who have opined that an entirely school-based identification, application, and selection process is the only way to even attempt to curb this influence, and it needs to start with AAP selection.

Your belief counts for nothing. It has to be grounded in some verifiable basis. The world is littered with conspiracy theorists, anti-vaxxers, science-deniers, flat-earthers. Many hold those beliefs for convenience, but many others hold those convictions very strongly.

The rest of your statement flows from your belief, for which I have seen no concrete basis.

Oh FFS. I believe current and recent students who have said that prep centers pay pupils for reporting back on test questions and content. I believe recent alumni who are open on social media about having cheated extensively through their years at TJ to meet their parents’ grade expectations. I can quantify the reduction in non-academic electives at TJ over time because the student population (read: parents) weren’t interested unless it came with an AP option. I can easily chart for you the precipitous decline in applicants since the peak in the late oughts, especially when adjusted for population. Something is rotten in the state of Denmark...and it’s not because kids who aren’t prepped couldn’t thrive at TJ.