Toddler death on a cruise ship. So tragic

[Anonymous]

WARNING: Open windows are dangerous.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:WARNING: Open windows are dangerous.

Malarkey. Open windows are only dangerous when you're doing something profoundly stupid and directly because of user error.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It makes sense what the lawyer is doing. Think about how we vilify the parents who leave a kid in a hot car and want them prosecuted. We would never be so irresponsible! By diverting the conversation to whether the cruise ship is culpable, the focus shifts from solely blaming the grandpa to discussing windows and signs and toddler behavior.

Grandpa’s story about not knowing the window was open is the narrative his brain created to protect him from the soul crushing reality that he was responsible. I’m sure he really believes it be true. If the whole family believes this, blame shifting makes it a little more bearable than the truth.

Whatever happened, I hope they don’t prosecute him for negligence; he has been punished enough.

Totally agree with you. However, the position the lawyer is taking is a boomerang that's going to cause the family to be hit even harder.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:WARNING: Open windows are dangerous.

Malarkey. Open windows are only dangerous when you're doing something profoundly stupid and directly because of user error.

I don’t know. An open window on the ground floor in your home can also be dangerous because a toddler could jam his fingers or bust it of the screen into the street. I do agree that it’s up to adults to supervise. I choose to keep my windows closed!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:WARNING: Open windows are dangerous.

Yes, if you're dumb enough to dangle a child in front of them.

[Anonymous]

WARNING: Open windows are potentially dangerous. Without proper supervision, it is possible for small children and unwary adults to receive serious injuries up to and including death. The manufacturer of this window is not responsible for injuries related to negligence in the operation of this window except for were limited by state, local or federal law.

[Anonymous]

I’m very happy with whatever regulation prohibits hotel windows from opening all the way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It makes sense what the lawyer is doing. Think about how we vilify the parents who leave a kid in a hot car and want them prosecuted. We would never be so irresponsible! By diverting the conversation to whether the cruise ship is culpable, the focus shifts from solely blaming the grandpa to discussing windows and signs and toddler behavior.

Grandpa’s story about not knowing the window was open is the narrative his brain created to protect him from the soul crushing reality that he was responsible. I’m sure he really believes it be true. If the whole family believes this, blame shifting makes it a little more bearable than the truth.

Whatever happened, I hope they don’t prosecute him for negligence; he has been punished enough.

If it weren't for Grandpa's actions this would never have happened. It wasn't the cruise ship. I feel terrible for those parents but ultimately their child is dead because they allowed a reckless individual to watch her.

True but I think part of the lawyer's attack is going to be that the open window was always dangerous. A child could find a chair and just climb out of the open window. Maybe not this child, but any child could. A lapse of attention for just 10 seconds would be sufficient. Ergo, a dangerous situation was always present.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’m very happy with whatever regulation prohibits hotel windows from opening all the way.

And if the hotel happens to catch fire? That seems more likely than falling out of a window.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It makes sense what the lawyer is doing. Think about how we vilify the parents who leave a kid in a hot car and want them prosecuted. We would never be so irresponsible! By diverting the conversation to whether the cruise ship is culpable, the focus shifts from solely blaming the grandpa to discussing windows and signs and toddler behavior.

Grandpa’s story about not knowing the window was open is the narrative his brain created to protect him from the soul crushing reality that he was responsible. I’m sure he really believes it be true. If the whole family believes this, blame shifting makes it a little more bearable than the truth.

Whatever happened, I hope they don’t prosecute him for negligence; he has been punished enough.

Totally agree with you. However, the position the lawyer is taking is a boomerang that's going to cause the family to be hit even harder.

Partially disagree. There’s science that explains why kids get left in hot cars accidentally. And once you read that research, it is very sobering as a parent because it is clear that it is not primarily an issue of being irresponsible. What happened with Cruise Ship Grandpa is more like parents who intentionally leave kids in the car, in the early spring or with the window cracked. They are overlooking a known risk, thinking they have controlled for it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It makes sense what the lawyer is doing. Think about how we vilify the parents who leave a kid in a hot car and want them prosecuted. We would never be so irresponsible! By diverting the conversation to whether the cruise ship is culpable, the focus shifts from solely blaming the grandpa to discussing windows and signs and toddler behavior.

Grandpa’s story about not knowing the window was open is the narrative his brain created to protect him from the soul crushing reality that he was responsible. I’m sure he really believes it be true. If the whole family believes this, blame shifting makes it a little more bearable than the truth.

Whatever happened, I hope they don’t prosecute him for negligence; he has been punished enough.

Totally agree with you. However, the position the lawyer is taking is a boomerang that's going to cause the family to be hit even harder.

It already has. It went from sympathy to people now shaking their heads at the litigation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:One of the articles said (and someone I know who goes on a lot of cruises agreed) that the newer ships don't have windows that can be opened like that. Maybe the man hadn't been on an older ship before and wasn't very observant so he really thought there was glass there, in the way that sometimes you can be so convinced of something because you expect it to be that way that you don't even check first to confirm it.

I do think the cruise line had a responsibility to post signs up warning people of the danger those windows could pose to children. It may seem common sense to most of us but there are a lot of people with poor judgment, and accidents happen all the time on cruise ships. Stores, public transit, and other public places often have signs warning people of seemingly obvious risks to children - cruise ships should be no different.

Surely the parents were unaware that he was that poor in his observation skills?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One of the articles said (and someone I know who goes on a lot of cruises agreed) that the newer ships don't have windows that can be opened like that. Maybe the man hadn't been on an older ship before and wasn't very observant so he really thought there was glass there, in the way that sometimes you can be so convinced of something because you expect it to be that way that you don't even check first to confirm it.

I do think the cruise line had a responsibility to post signs up warning people of the danger those windows could pose to children. It may seem common sense to most of us but there are a lot of people with poor judgment, and accidents happen all the time on cruise ships. Stores, public transit, and other public places often have signs warning people of seemingly obvious risks to children - cruise ships should be no different.

Somebody who is so unobservant that a window is wide open is going to notice a sign warning them to not place small children in open windows? I'm sorry. The man was profoundly and irrevocably careless with his granddaughter and now that sweet baby is dead.

Nothing about this scenario makes a bit of sense. You can not place signs warning people not to do things that everyone in their right mind knows not to do.

What would be the harm in posting up signs that say keep children away from the windows? It's a simple, cheap precaution that completely absolves the cruise line. Some people will still do stupid things but maybe it will be a deterrent for some people. What if the ship lists unexpectedly while you're standing next to the window? Maybe the floor is wet, being close to the pool and all, and a person slips and tumbles out? Maybe a child climbs up a deck chair to the window? There are plenty of reasons to put warning signs up.

Someone would have to be very tall to stumble and fall out that window.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It makes sense what the lawyer is doing. Think about how we vilify the parents who leave a kid in a hot car and want them prosecuted. We would never be so irresponsible! By diverting the conversation to whether the cruise ship is culpable, the focus shifts from solely blaming the grandpa to discussing windows and signs and toddler behavior.

Grandpa’s story about not knowing the window was open is the narrative his brain created to protect him from the soul crushing reality that he was responsible. I’m sure he really believes it be true. If the whole family believes this, blame shifting makes it a little more bearable than the truth.

Whatever happened, I hope they don’t prosecute him for negligence; he has been punished enough.

Totally agree with you. However, the position the lawyer is taking is a boomerang that's going to cause the family to be hit even harder.

Partially disagree. There’s science that explains why kids get left in hot cars accidentally. And once you read that research, it is very sobering as a parent because it is clear that it is not primarily an issue of being irresponsible. What happened with Cruise Ship Grandpa is more like parents who intentionally leave kids in the car, in the early spring or with the window cracked. They are overlooking a known risk, thinking they have controlled for it.

Interesting, thanks. I do have a lot of sympathy for those parents after reading Gene Weingarten's article. It's easier than you think to make that mistake.

In contrast to this, I looked up what happened when Eric Clapton's son fell out of window in NYC. It was a completely accidental tragedy without out the controlled risk of this one. Three adults were present. However, the window which was always locked had been opened by a janitor. In the seconds it took for him to inform the nanny, the child had run straight through it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It makes sense what the lawyer is doing. Think about how we vilify the parents who leave a kid in a hot car and want them prosecuted. We would never be so irresponsible! By diverting the conversation to whether the cruise ship is culpable, the focus shifts from solely blaming the grandpa to discussing windows and signs and toddler behavior.

Grandpa’s story about not knowing the window was open is the narrative his brain created to protect him from the soul crushing reality that he was responsible. I’m sure he really believes it be true. If the whole family believes this, blame shifting makes it a little more bearable than the truth.

Whatever happened, I hope they don’t prosecute him for negligence; he has been punished enough.

Totally agree with you. However, the position the lawyer is taking is a boomerang that's going to cause the family to be hit even harder.

It already has. It went from sympathy to people now shaking their heads at the litigation.

+1.