How are kids supposed to address professors? Dr., Professor, first name? Daughter got rude reaction

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm the professor who wrote at the top of this page. Even staff who do not work directly with someone initially refer to faculty by "professor." It is simply the formal title used in this professional setting. It is the default unless someone insists on a first name. My belief is that professors should not ask students to refer to them by their first name. If they do insist students use their first name, I would worry they have boundary isssues.

I am flabbergasted to read all these parents who are shocked or resentful that there are formal boundaries in academia. It's not about subservience. It's about professionalism.

I am someone who has a title that could be used and doesn't, not a shocked parent. I will not insist another adult address me in a subservient manner.

OK, but do you really feel that college students are adults just because they have reached the legal adult age? I think we are talking about undergrads here.

Come to think of it, when I was in business school and most of the students were in fact adults, we still called our professors by their last name as they did with us.

Nobody's saying that's not perfect fine and that's your prerogative. Would your b-school professors harm or dock you or slight you in any way for simply using their first name? Probably not. But folks in these thread are arguing it's okay for professors to do just that if a young adult doesn't bow down and kiss the pinky ring every email.

There it is again -- that weird fetish for hyperbole.

Something tells me that this PP's life has been full of consternation and rage.

I'm not full of rage. I think an adult who goes nuclear because a 18-22 year old called them their first name is the one harboring psychological demons.

Who went nuclear? Must have missed that. All I’ve seen is people pointing out that it’s disrespectful. Which is spot on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm the professor who wrote at the top of this page. Even staff who do not work directly with someone initially refer to faculty by "professor." It is simply the formal title used in this professional setting. It is the default unless someone insists on a first name. My belief is that professors should not ask students to refer to them by their first name. If they do insist students use their first name, I would worry they have boundary isssues.

I am flabbergasted to read all these parents who are shocked or resentful that there are formal boundaries in academia. It's not about subservience. It's about professionalism.

I am someone who has a title that could be used and doesn't, not a shocked parent. I will not insist another adult address me in a subservient manner.

OK, but do you really feel that college students are adults just because they have reached the legal adult age? I think we are talking about undergrads here.

Come to think of it, when I was in business school and most of the students were in fact adults, we still called our professors by their last name as they did with us.

Nobody's saying that's not perfect fine and that's your prerogative. Would your b-school professors harm or dock you or slight you in any way for simply using their first name? Probably not. But folks in these thread are arguing it's okay for professors to do just that if a young adult doesn't bow down and kiss the pinky ring every email.

There it is again -- that weird fetish for hyperbole.

Something tells me that this PP's life has been full of consternation and rage.

I'm not full of rage. I think an adult who goes nuclear because a 18-22 year old called them their first name is the one harboring psychological demons.

Sending an e-mail to a student is "going nuclear"? Yikes. I think it is you who is harboring psychological demons.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I know a handful of lunatic morons with EdDs from degree mills who demand they're addressed with Dr.

No. I have a Ph.D., but there are other types of academic/clinical doctoral degrees out there—Ed.D., Pharm.D., Psy.D., etc. I would at least initially use “Dr.” with any one of them, as a professional courtesy, and would expect students to do the same unless corrected to something else.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm the professor who wrote at the top of this page. Even staff who do not work directly with someone initially refer to faculty by "professor." It is simply the formal title used in this professional setting. It is the default unless someone insists on a first name. My belief is that professors should not ask students to refer to them by their first name. If they do insist students use their first name, I would worry they have boundary isssues.

I am flabbergasted to read all these parents who are shocked or resentful that there are formal boundaries in academia. It's not about subservience. It's about professionalism.

I am someone who has a title that could be used and doesn't, not a shocked parent. I will not insist another adult address me in a subservient manner.

OK, but do you really feel that college students are adults just because they have reached the legal adult age? I think we are talking about undergrads here.

Come to think of it, when I was in business school and most of the students were in fact adults, we still called our professors by their last name as they did with us.

Nobody's saying that's not perfect fine and that's your prerogative. Would your b-school professors harm or dock you or slight you in any way for simply using their first name? Probably not. But folks in these thread are arguing it's okay for professors to do just that if a young adult doesn't bow down and kiss the pinky ring every email.

There it is again -- that weird fetish for hyperbole.

Something tells me that this PP's life has been full of consternation and rage.

I'm not full of rage. I think an adult who goes nuclear because a 18-22 year old called them their first name is the one harboring psychological demons.

Sending an e-mail to a student is "going nuclear"? Yikes. I think it is you who is harboring psychological demons.

Listen, PP has to make it look like whoever was called by their first name pulled out an axe and went full on crazy town - or else she’s the one who looks full on crazy town. Maybe we should just let her have that so she doesn’t have a breakdown or something.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The sad part is that OP and her DD have to live in the world they actually live in, and deal with any consequences thereof, not the world they want to live in.

Sucks not to always be on top. Sucks to try so hard to insult someone, when they don't really care that much -- and yet still are going to pass judgement on you, because that is their job.

Oh, well. Maybe OP feels better for ranting here. One can only hope. It's a small enough gift.

Consequence for an adult addressing another adult by their first name? It's not like OP said her daughter uses "Hey cat lady" or "Yo" to greet professors. What's wrong with "Hi Ryan" or "Hi Suzy"? It's completely normal and okay.

I suggest OP's DC should continue to call the professor and counselor by their first names. I know professors who would give partial credit for wrong answers, try to read answers in a favorable way, allow a student to take a test early or late to go home (not for an emergency), write letters of recommendation for graduate school, provide contacts for jobs. Young professors might prefer "professor" to keep boundaries. Older professors might think it's a sign of respect. Whatever the reason, why would a student want to go against someone's wishes on how they should be addressed.

Are you inferring these professors are unprofessional and suffer from deep-seeded psychological issues as they will attempt to sabotage a young lady's education because of this batsh*t supposed slight?

I'm suggesting that if a student is going to be upset by having to call a professor "professor" instead of by first name, then the student doesn't have the right temperament to get hired by me. There are many very bright people, I'll pick one who isn't a pain in the ass. What's "batsh*t" crazy is that a student would think a professor is a jerk for wanting to be addressed as "professor." I had some wonderful professors who preferred "professor." I didn't feel subservient to them and I didn't have a problem with addressing them in the manner in which they preferred. I'm suggesting that I had many wonderful professors who bent over backwards for student, and I can't understand why calling them "professor" would be an issue. A good lesson in life is learning to pick your battles.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Who went nuclear? Must have missed that. All I’ve seen is people pointing out that it’s disrespectful. Which is spot on.

Anyone who even seizes on something so petty and insignificant is a hack. If the kid has a pleasant disposition, it's flat out nutty to get riled up over this. You just know it's a liberal arts hack who would get upset, too. Some stem PhD pursuing significant research doesn't have the time or care to seize on something so silly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm the professor who wrote at the top of this page. Even staff who do not work directly with someone initially refer to faculty by "professor." It is simply the formal title used in this professional setting. It is the default unless someone insists on a first name. My belief is that professors should not ask students to refer to them by their first name. If they do insist students use their first name, I would worry they have boundary isssues.

I am flabbergasted to read all these parents who are shocked or resentful that there are formal boundaries in academia. It's not about subservience. It's about professionalism.

I am someone who has a title that could be used and doesn't, not a shocked parent. I will not insist another adult address me in a subservient manner.

May I ask what your title is?

Doctor of Naturopathy

Ahhhhhhh.

Well, there you go.

Yeah. I’m still laughing at this one.

I am the one who doesn't insist on title. I didn't write the bit about naturopathy. One of you insecure lunatics who feel their life worth is based on an honorific wrote that, and I think it's telling that you feel the need to insult a profession to make your point. I am jointly degreed in engineering and work in industry and academia.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Who went nuclear? Must have missed that. All I’ve seen is people pointing out that it’s disrespectful. Which is spot on.

Anyone who even seizes on something so petty and insignificant is a hack. If the kid has a pleasant disposition, it's flat out nutty to get riled up over this. You just know it's a liberal arts hack who would get upset, too. Some stem PhD pursuing significant research doesn't have the time or care to seize on something so silly.

"Riled up." Lol, there you go again. Petty indeed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm the professor who wrote at the top of this page. Even staff who do not work directly with someone initially refer to faculty by "professor." It is simply the formal title used in this professional setting. It is the default unless someone insists on a first name. My belief is that professors should not ask students to refer to them by their first name. If they do insist students use their first name, I would worry they have boundary isssues.

I am flabbergasted to read all these parents who are shocked or resentful that there are formal boundaries in academia. It's not about subservience. It's about professionalism.

I am someone who has a title that could be used and doesn't, not a shocked parent. I will not insist another adult address me in a subservient manner.

OK, but do you really feel that college students are adults just because they have reached the legal adult age? I think we are talking about undergrads here.

Come to think of it, when I was in business school and most of the students were in fact adults, we still called our professors by their last name as they did with us.

Good point. My professors also referred to me as Ms. X, so it wasn't an issue of ego/subservience it was just decorum.

But kids can't use Ms and Mr anymore because the pronoun police will turn you in if you use the wrong one. Everyone in academia has "preferred pronouns" now. Kids walk on eggshells fearing all these perceived slights. So, I don't see the problem playing it safe with first names. Everyone loves their first name; it's familiar and comforting, unless you're on a cocktail of SSRIs and have seven cats, of course.

You know, I'm with the PP who was talking about your embracement of hyperbole. You should really watch that. It's a very poor rhetorical strategy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Who went nuclear? Must have missed that. All I’ve seen is people pointing out that it’s disrespectful. Which is spot on.

Anyone who even seizes on something so petty and insignificant is a hack. If the kid has a pleasant disposition, it's flat out nutty to get riled up over this. You just know it's a liberal arts hack who would get upset, too. Some stem PhD pursuing significant research doesn't have the time or care to seize on something so silly.

Exactly. I am in STEM and totally agree.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm the professor who wrote at the top of this page. Even staff who do not work directly with someone initially refer to faculty by "professor." It is simply the formal title used in this professional setting. It is the default unless someone insists on a first name. My belief is that professors should not ask students to refer to them by their first name. If they do insist students use their first name, I would worry they have boundary isssues.

I am flabbergasted to read all these parents who are shocked or resentful that there are formal boundaries in academia. It's not about subservience. It's about professionalism.

I am someone who has a title that could be used and doesn't, not a shocked parent. I will not insist another adult address me in a subservient manner.

May I ask what your title is?

Doctor of Naturopathy

Ahhhhhhh.

Well, there you go.

Yeah. I’m still laughing at this one.

I am the one who doesn't insist on title. I didn't write the bit about naturopathy. One of you insecure lunatics who feel their life worth is based on an honorific wrote that, and I think it's telling that you feel the need to insult a profession to make your point. I am jointly degreed in engineering and work in industry and academia.

To clarify: I could be Dr. or Prof.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not OP and haven't read the thread.

Personally I think honorifics should be done away with entirely. I don't think doctors should insist on Dr. I don't think professors should be Prof. I think the use of honorifics perpetuates power imbalances that on the whole aren't good. Let everyone go by first name. And yes, I have honorifics I could use but I don't.

An adult insisting another adult use a title is just cringeworthy behavior to me.

I respect your opinion. Would you consider reading the NYT article linked in this thread to see if any of the issues outlined there might, in your opinion, warrant an exception?

I will find it and read it.

Mostly I find the insistence on honorifics to be the vestiges of a racist and misogynistic history in which those honorifics were used as a way of keeping people who deserved it on their merits out of power.

You want respect? Earn it based on your behavior, not by insisting another adult address you with a title.

I am a woman of color, PhD holder, and professor and you could not be more off base here.

Nope. I've been in the trenches myself and I completely disagree with you.

DP, I agree with the professor PP. The NYT article also noted that professors with doctoral degrees who are younger, minority, and/or female are more likely to be referred to by their first names. Anecdotally, I’ve found this to be true among my academic colleagues who’ve mentioned this issue.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not OP and haven't read the thread.

Personally I think honorifics should be done away with entirely. I don't think doctors should insist on Dr. I don't think professors should be Prof. I think the use of honorifics perpetuates power imbalances that on the whole aren't good. Let everyone go by first name. And yes, I have honorifics I could use but I don't.

An adult insisting another adult use a title is just cringeworthy behavior to me.

I respect your opinion. Would you consider reading the NYT article linked in this thread to see if any of the issues outlined there might, in your opinion, warrant an exception?

I will find it and read it.

Mostly I find the insistence on honorifics to be the vestiges of a racist and misogynistic history in which those honorifics were used as a way of keeping people who deserved it on their merits out of power.

You want respect? Earn it based on your behavior, not by insisting another adult address you with a title.

I am a woman of color, PhD holder, and professor and you could not be more off base here.

Nope. I've been in the trenches myself and I completely disagree with you.

DP, I agree with the professor PP. The NYT article also noted that professors with doctoral degrees who are younger, minority, and/or female are more likely to be referred to by their first names. Anecdotally, I’ve found this to be true among my academic colleagues who’ve mentioned this issue.

The solution is to not use title at all, not to insist other adults use it.

I do make an exception in the military. But beyond that, no.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Who went nuclear? Must have missed that. All I’ve seen is people pointing out that it’s disrespectful. Which is spot on.

Anyone who even seizes on something so petty and insignificant is a hack. If the kid has a pleasant disposition, it's flat out nutty to get riled up over this. You just know it's a liberal arts hack who would get upset, too. Some stem PhD pursuing significant research doesn't have the time or care to seize on something so silly.

"Riled up." Lol, there you go again. Petty indeed.

God I really hope hyperbole lady is just one person. If not, we’ve got several on the verge of breakdown on our hands.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not OP and haven't read the thread.

Personally I think honorifics should be done away with entirely. I don't think doctors should insist on Dr. I don't think professors should be Prof. I think the use of honorifics perpetuates power imbalances that on the whole aren't good. Let everyone go by first name. And yes, I have honorifics I could use but I don't.

An adult insisting another adult use a title is just cringeworthy behavior to me.

I respect your opinion. Would you consider reading the NYT article linked in this thread to see if any of the issues outlined there might, in your opinion, warrant an exception?

I will find it and read it.

Mostly I find the insistence on honorifics to be the vestiges of a racist and misogynistic history in which those honorifics were used as a way of keeping people who deserved it on their merits out of power.

You want respect? Earn it based on your behavior, not by insisting another adult address you with a title.

I am a woman of color, PhD holder, and professor and you could not be more off base here.

Nope. I've been in the trenches myself and I completely disagree with you.

DP, I agree with the professor PP. The NYT article also noted that professors with doctoral degrees who are younger, minority, and/or female are more likely to be referred to by their first names. Anecdotally, I’ve found this to be true among my academic colleagues who’ve mentioned this issue.

The solution is to not use title at all, not to insist other adults use it.

I do make an exception in the military. But beyond that, no.

Why does the military get an exception?