How are kids supposed to address professors? Dr., Professor, first name? Daughter got rude reaction

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why does it matter if the person's PhD is in humanities (deemed worthless here apparently) or neuroscience?

You are not saying "Dr. Smith" because that person is superior to you (i.e. studied something that YOU thinks sounds hard). It is all about context, and who has authority in a given circumstance (the one who knows more is the teacher, the one who gets to give grades has more authority).

Because someone who just did some PhD in Kenyan Transgender Ethnic Studies from U-Hahaha is kinda not comparable to someone with an MD and a PhD in Cognitive Neuroscience from Hopkins?

My, somebody's insecure. It doesn't lessen your degree to afford others respect.

It's a moot point, really. Someone capable of a PhD in a STEM field wouldn't be sitting through a lecture about transgender ethnic studies in a SLAC so they don't need to worry about how they'd call such a person. I agree with you that some of the PhDs out there are a joke, but I'm not going to be having any dealings with them so who cares.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why does it matter if the person's PhD is in humanities (deemed worthless here apparently) or neuroscience?

You are not saying "Dr. Smith" because that person is superior to you (i.e. studied something that YOU thinks sounds hard). It is all about context, and who has authority in a given circumstance (the one who knows more is the teacher, the one who gets to give grades has more authority).

Because someone who just did some PhD in Kenyan Transgender Ethnic Studies from U-Hahaha is kinda not comparable to someone with an MD and a PhD in Cognitive Neuroscience from Hopkins?

My, somebody's insecure. It doesn't lessen your degree to afford others respect.

It's a moot point, really. Someone capable of a PhD in a STEM field wouldn't be sitting through a lecture about transgender ethnic studies in a SLAC so they don't need to worry about how they'd call such a person. I agree with you that some of the PhDs out there are a joke, but I'm not going to be having any dealings with them so who cares.

You would call them Professor Smith, the same way you'd call a STEM lecturer Professor Smith.

I mean, I know you're just on this thread to sling monkey poo at everything non-STEM as worthless and frivolous, and that it's not worth anyone's time to correct you on that point, but it isn't hard to use someone's preferred title.

It costs you nothing, except of course the chance to shit on the humanities.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Daughter is a freshman at Stanford. She said most profs are first name. Confident and chill vibes at Stanford.

You are not the first poster to mention profs that go by first names have more confidence. I don't think wanting students to call a prof by last name is a sign of insecurity - just a preference for more formality and boundary in the classroom - a question of style and tone. Most (but not all) of my daughter's profs at her east coast ivy also say first name is OK, but she waits until invited to do so.

OP's daughter said that's what most of the profs preferred, and several posts have confirmed that yes, many profs do say that - yet...

You use the more formal term until someone says the informal one is fine. This is not hard.

Yes, this. Why does anyone need 30 pages of tangentially related discussion to understand this basic life rule?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I went to Princeton years ago. The convention was that students addressed professors as Mr. or Ms. and the professor addressed students as Mr. or Ms.

Equality among scholars and all that.

My SLAC was the same way, but everyone used first names. Then again, all of my professors were cool and confident scholars. In my view, academics demanding to be called doctor or professor highlights some mental imbalance and/or professional insecurity.

An undergraduate student and a PhD who has often worked 30 years in the field are not equals. Show some respect to people who have worked their asses off and become experts in their fields. Maybe your laid back ceramics professor is cool with being called by his first name but most would at least like you to begin within”Dr” and they’ll let you know of you can call them “Chris”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I have a PhD and I’m not calling every random person I meet “Mr” or “Mrs” something. That’s ridiculous. I’m not 5 years old and we don’t live in Germany. In that case they should be calling me “Dr” which I would never expect them to do outside an academic setting.

It's odd to me that you believe your PhD is relevant to the issue of using Mr. and Ms. You should call adults you don't know Mr. and Ms. They don't have to call you Dr. outside of an academic setting or professional setting directly tied to your education. This is simple manners.

I live in California and I literally do not know anyone who calls adults they don't know Mr. and Ms. That is bizarre behavior.

+1

Maybe it's the confidence thing that other PPs were referring to. People are a lot more relaxed and confident on the West Coast.

I don't think it is a confidence issue. It is a question of style. Some profs prefer to maintain a formal classroom. Similar to other classroom rules they may have. For example, some are OK with eating. Some aren't. I don't think it is a big deal either way with the name or other rules or to point these out to students.. I don't think it is forcing students to kowtow.

[Anonymous]

She didn't get spoken to by two people just for a title. There was something else that was the issue

[Anonymous]

I am adjunct and I don't let anyone call me professor because I don't have a doctoral degree, am not a staff instructor. I go by Ms. LastName because I have found when you get too friendly/familiar with students it confuses the teacher-student relationship. I am their instructor, not their friend. I consistently get good reviews so I'll assume this system works. I refer to people in whatever way they tell me to, so if professor is what they prefer that's what I use.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I have a PhD and I’m not calling every random person I meet “Mr” or “Mrs” something. That’s ridiculous. I’m not 5 years old and we don’t live in Germany. In that case they should be calling me “Dr” which I would never expect them to do outside an academic setting.

It's odd to me that you believe your PhD is relevant to the issue of using Mr. and Ms. You should call adults you don't know Mr. and Ms. They don't have to call you Dr. outside of an academic setting or professional setting directly tied to your education. This is simple manners.

I live in California and I literally do not know anyone who calls adults they don't know Mr. and Ms. That is bizarre behavior.

+1

Maybe it's the confidence thing that other PPs were referring to. People are a lot more relaxed and confident on the West Coast.

I don't think it is a confidence issue. It is a question of style. Some profs prefer to maintain a formal classroom. Similar to other classroom rules they may have. For example, some are OK with eating. Some aren't. I don't think it is a big deal either way with the name or other rules or to point these out to students.. I don't think it is forcing students to kowtow.

It's only forcing students to kowtow if they believe it is subservience -- if they see it that way. Really, it can just be cultural norms for academia in that area. Funny that some here are so insistent that it exemplifies "confidence" to go by first names, when it is that lack of confidence and fear that someone considers themselves superior that drives one to buck norms.

If the name doesn't matter, then go by what makes the least waves. If it does matter to you that you not use an appropriate title when it's expected, then it is you that are not confident.

[Anonymous]

The polite thing to do is address each person as he or she or they prefer to be addressed. If your name is Queen of the Button Box and that is how you want to be addressed, then that is how I will address you.

OP, your daughter violated one of the most basic rules of etiquette. Time for her (and you) to brush up. She may be learning book knowledge at school but her lack of social skills and adherence to basic social mores will make it very difficult for her to be successful in the world.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I have a PhD and I’m not calling every random person I meet “Mr” or “Mrs” something. That’s ridiculous. I’m not 5 years old and we don’t live in Germany. In that case they should be calling me “Dr” which I would never expect them to do outside an academic setting.

It's odd to me that you believe your PhD is relevant to the issue of using Mr. and Ms. You should call adults you don't know Mr. and Ms. They don't have to call you Dr. outside of an academic setting or professional setting directly tied to your education. This is simple manners.

I live in California and I literally do not know anyone who calls adults they don't know Mr. and Ms. That is bizarre behavior.

+1

Maybe it's the confidence thing that other PPs were referring to. People are a lot more relaxed and confident on the West Coast.

I don't think people are necessarily more "confident" on the West Coast; that's a pretty sweeping generalization to make. They are, however, much less formal in general. However, if meeting someone for the first time, I'd still refer to them as Dr. if they have a doctoral degree and it's in a professional context, either in person or via email.

-someone who did Ph.D. on the East Coast but research postdoc in CA

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am adjunct and I don't let anyone call me professor because I don't have a doctoral degree, am not a staff instructor. I go by Ms. LastName because I have found when you get too friendly/familiar with students it confuses the teacher-student relationship. I am their instructor, not their friend. I consistently get good reviews so I'll assume this system works. I refer to people in whatever way they tell me to, so if professor is what they prefer that's what I use.

This. My DH is a professor and when he was just starting out, he made the error of telling a class "Oh you can just call me Larlo"...and this opened some very bizarre floodgates of overly familiar emails like,

"Dude- so I'm not gonna be in class tomorrow. Let me know if I miss anything." and "Hey Larlo, Can you shoot me over another copy of the study guide? I can't find mine. Thx."

Definitely twilight zone teacher/student comm...and the students had no issue acting like he was their bud who could just cover for them or "do me a quick favor, bro..."

Weird.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am adjunct and I don't let anyone call me professor because I don't have a doctoral degree, am not a staff instructor. I go by Ms. LastName because I have found when you get too friendly/familiar with students it confuses the teacher-student relationship. I am their instructor, not their friend. I consistently get good reviews so I'll assume this system works. I refer to people in whatever way they tell me to, so if professor is what they prefer that's what I use.

This. My DH is a professor and when he was just starting out, he made the error of telling a class "Oh you can just call me Larlo"...and this opened some very bizarre floodgates of overly familiar emails like,

"Dude- so I'm not gonna be in class tomorrow. Let me know if I miss anything." and "Hey Larlo, Can you shoot me over another copy of the study guide? I can't find mine. Thx."

Definitely twilight zone teacher/student comm...and the students had no issue acting like he was their bud who could just cover for them or "do me a quick favor, bro..."

Weird.

Yes, unfortunately my colleagues and I see these sorts of emails more frequently than we'd like. And it's often the kids who've barely attended any classes but resurface at the end of the semester to plead their case for a better grade.

[Anonymous]

OP, I'm not sure what the issue is, but I definitely think you should call up your DD's advisor and ask her. Or better yet, explain to her that your DD is amazing and should be able to address professors in whatever manner she wants.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, I'm not sure what the issue is, but I definitely think you should call up your DD's advisor and ask her. Or better yet, explain to her that your DD is amazing and should be able to address professors in whatever manner she wants.

No, no, an "amazing client who pays your salary, you know."

Do it, OP, do it!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I'm not sure what the issue is, but I definitely think you should call up your DD's advisor and ask her. Or better yet, explain to her that your DD is amazing and should be able to address professors in whatever manner she wants.

No, no, an "amazing client who pays your salary, you know."

Do it, OP, do it!

OP, did you schedule a parent-teacher conference with the professor yet? You can totally do this, and it would be a good chance for you to touch base about what your daughter actually meant, to clear the air, and also to explain her learning style to her instructor. If you don't get results, escalate things by emailing the dean to make sure you get a good parent-teacher conference time. All the A students in college have parents who are involved.