Muslim women speak out against the hijab as an element of political Islam

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

You needn't resort to snark to get your point across just because you don't like that Muslim women veil.

Why do men commit more crimes than women in nearly every society? Why are insurance rates generally higher for men? Are you going to sit there and now deny biochemical differences between men and women? In the western mindset, the quest to prove linear equality between men and women may cause women to insist they are identical to men in every way, but from the Islamic perspective this is an erroneous presumption. Muslim women do not need to justify veiling under western ideology. The requirement to "lower ones gaze" is there in the Quran for both men and women, but men are more likely to have a harder time controlling themselves from the sin of gazing.

If you don't agree, fine. It's simply a different perspective.

It's funny- the only time in my life where I felt objectified and pressured about my appearance was when I lived in a Muslim country.

Also, why the false dichotomy? No one in this thread said men and women are the same. People defending Islam (or their version of it) always present these false choices. Saying men and women deserve equality in their clothing choices does not mean we are saying they are the same. Nor does a woman dressing in non-hijab mean endorsing extremely revealing clothing. There is a big difference between booty shorts and a tasteful knee-length skirt, but from what I can tell, some of the people defending veiling think they are the same, and that Western women are constantly objectified and sexualized. I would say it is the opposite, and that women in Muslim countries are the ones facing more of this pressure, because at this point, even their hair, of all things, has become sexualized.

I don't know too many men that spend thousands on hair products, curling, straightening, coloring their hair, or tossing their hair around to attract or arouse women. Generally speaking, women use their hair to attract. Men don't. As much as you insist on equality in clothing because of your western mindset, it just doesn't make sense when it comes to hair.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

You needn't resort to snark to get your point across just because you don't like that Muslim women veil.

Why do men commit more crimes than women in nearly every society? Why are insurance rates generally higher for men? Are you going to sit there and now deny biochemical differences between men and women? In the western mindset, the quest to prove linear equality between men and women may cause women to insist they are identical to men in every way, but from the Islamic perspective this is an erroneous presumption. Muslim women do not need to justify veiling under western ideology. The requirement to "lower ones gaze" is there in the Quran for both men and women, but men are more likely to have a harder time controlling themselves from the sin of gazing.

If you don't agree, fine. It's simply a different perspective.

It's funny- the only time in my life where I felt objectified and pressured about my appearance was when I lived in a Muslim country.

Also, why the false dichotomy? No one in this thread said men and women are the same. People defending Islam (or their version of it) always present these false choices. Saying men and women deserve equality in their clothing choices does not mean we are saying they are the same. Nor does a woman dressing in non-hijab mean endorsing extremely revealing clothing. There is a big difference between booty shorts and a tasteful knee-length skirt, but from what I can tell, some of the people defending veiling think they are the same, and that Western women are constantly objectified and sexualized. I would say it is the opposite, and that women in Muslim countries are the ones facing more of this pressure, because at this point, even their hair, of all things, has become sexualized.

I don't know too many men that spend thousands on hair products, curling, straightening, coloring their hair, or tossing their hair around to attract or arouse women. Generally speaking, women use their hair to attract. Men don't. As much as you insist on equality in clothing because of your western mindset, it just doesn't make sense when it comes to hair.

This question has been asked on DCUM and answered many times -- who do women dress for? Other women, not for men. The men are almost incidental. Women wear nice clothes, put on nice makeup, get their hair done, for other women.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Maybe the Muslim theology student was simply pleased that his wife chose to show her body to only him. And it's not uncommon for men to get excited by a woman who makes them feel special and important in any way.

In Islam gazing inevitably leads to lust (in many cases). Lust may lead to greater sins. To permit women ( or men) to show off their adornments and say no sin will ever result is just false.

Newsflash- if men and women marry, no need to have sex outside of marriage...or have sex with animals. ?

The Muslim theology student, of course, was kind of a sleaze. He loved spending time with female students, but for his own wife, I guess he wanted someone "pure." Fair enough.

Of course, pp, your description of Islam sounds consistent to what I have seen in practice. Narrow, legalistic, and overly onerous. To cover your entire body so that you can save some poor man from the risk of lust- I guess if you feel this is for the glory of God, good for you.

It's not that burdensome for many Muslim women to wear hijab. For many hijab wearers, it's more dignified than using their hair (or cleavage, legs, or any other part of their body) to attract a man's attention.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

You needn't resort to snark to get your point across just because you don't like that Muslim women veil.

Why do men commit more crimes than women in nearly every society? Why are insurance rates generally higher for men? Are you going to sit there and now deny biochemical differences between men and women? In the western mindset, the quest to prove linear equality between men and women may cause women to insist they are identical to men in every way, but from the Islamic perspective this is an erroneous presumption. Muslim women do not need to justify veiling under western ideology. The requirement to "lower ones gaze" is there in the Quran for both men and women, but men are more likely to have a harder time controlling themselves from the sin of gazing.

If you don't agree, fine. It's simply a different perspective.

It's funny- the only time in my life where I felt objectified and pressured about my appearance was when I lived in a Muslim country.

Also, why the false dichotomy? No one in this thread said men and women are the same. People defending Islam (or their version of it) always present these false choices. Saying men and women deserve equality in their clothing choices does not mean we are saying they are the same. Nor does a woman dressing in non-hijab mean endorsing extremely revealing clothing. There is a big difference between booty shorts and a tasteful knee-length skirt, but from what I can tell, some of the people defending veiling think they are the same, and that Western women are constantly objectified and sexualized. I would say it is the opposite, and that women in Muslim countries are the ones facing more of this pressure, because at this point, even their hair, of all things, has become sexualized.

I don't know too many men that spend thousands on hair products, curling, straightening, coloring their hair, or tossing their hair around to attract or arouse women. Generally speaking, women use their hair to attract. Men don't. As much as you insist on equality in clothing because of your western mindset, it just doesn't make sense when it comes to hair.

This question has been asked on DCUM and answered many times -- who do women dress for? Other women, not for men. The men are almost incidental. Women wear nice clothes, put on nice makeup, get their hair done, for other women.

I would say also, for ourselves. I love beautiful colors, fabrics, and clothes. I like to look nice and enjoy what I see in the mirror. I am not spending "thousands," on my hair, in fact I am not spending much more than if I did pretty much nothing to it. I am just putting some effort towards looking nice, for me.

I have never dressed up for a man, even when I was engaged or dating.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Maybe the Muslim theology student was simply pleased that his wife chose to show her body to only him. And it's not uncommon for men to get excited by a woman who makes them feel special and important in any way.

In Islam gazing inevitably leads to lust (in many cases). Lust may lead to greater sins. To permit women ( or men) to show off their adornments and say no sin will ever result is just false.

Newsflash- if men and women marry, no need to have sex outside of marriage...or have sex with animals. ?

The Muslim theology student, of course, was kind of a sleaze. He loved spending time with female students, but for his own wife, I guess he wanted someone "pure." Fair enough.

Of course, pp, your description of Islam sounds consistent to what I have seen in practice. Narrow, legalistic, and overly onerous. To cover your entire body so that you can save some poor man from the risk of lust- I guess if you feel this is for the glory of God, good for you.

It's not that burdensome for many Muslim women to wear hijab. For many hijab wearers, it's more dignified than using their hair (or cleavage, legs, or any other part of their body) to attract a man's attention.

Honey, if there was anything dignified about wearing hijabs, men would be wearing them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

You needn't resort to snark to get your point across just because you don't like that Muslim women veil.

Why do men commit more crimes than women in nearly every society? Why are insurance rates generally higher for men? Are you going to sit there and now deny biochemical differences between men and women? In the western mindset, the quest to prove linear equality between men and women may cause women to insist they are identical to men in every way, but from the Islamic perspective this is an erroneous presumption. Muslim women do not need to justify veiling under western ideology. The requirement to "lower ones gaze" is there in the Quran for both men and women, but men are more likely to have a harder time controlling themselves from the sin of gazing.

If you don't agree, fine. It's simply a different perspective.

Just because women like their clothes, makeup, hair to be appreciated and validated by peers does not negate the obvious fact that the USE these very same things, including their body, to ATTRACT men.

It's funny- the only time in my life where I felt objectified and pressured about my appearance was when I lived in a Muslim country.

Also, why the false dichotomy? No one in this thread said men and women are the same. People defending Islam (or their version of it) always present these false choices. Saying men and women deserve equality in their clothing choices does not mean we are saying they are the same. Nor does a woman dressing in non-hijab mean endorsing extremely revealing clothing. There is a big difference between booty shorts and a tasteful knee-length skirt, but from what I can tell, some of the people defending veiling think they are the same, and that Western women are constantly objectified and sexualized. I would say it is the opposite, and that women in Muslim countries are the ones facing more of this pressure, because at this point, even their hair, of all things, has become sexualized.

I don't know too many men that spend thousands on hair products, curling, straightening, coloring their hair, or tossing their hair around to attract or arouse women. Generally speaking, women use their hair to attract. Men don't. As much as you insist on equality in clothing because of your western mindset, it just doesn't make sense when it comes to hair.

This question has been asked on DCUM and answered many times -- who do women dress for? Other women, not for men. The men are almost incidental. Women wear nice clothes, put on nice makeup, get their hair done, for other women.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Maybe the Muslim theology student was simply pleased that his wife chose to show her body to only him. And it's not uncommon for men to get excited by a woman who makes them feel special and important in any way.

In Islam gazing inevitably leads to lust (in many cases). Lust may lead to greater sins. To permit women ( or men) to show off their adornments and say no sin will ever result is just false.

Newsflash- if men and women marry, no need to have sex outside of marriage...or have sex with animals. ?

The Muslim theology student, of course, was kind of a sleaze. He loved spending time with female students, but for his own wife, I guess he wanted someone "pure." Fair enough.

Of course, pp, your description of Islam sounds consistent to what I have seen in practice. Narrow, legalistic, and overly onerous. To cover your entire body so that you can save some poor man from the risk of lust- I guess if you feel this is for the glory of God, good for you.

It's not that burdensome for many Muslim women to wear hijab. For many hijab wearers, it's more dignified than using their hair (or cleavage, legs, or any other part of their body) to attract a man's attention.

Is it dignified or modest to wear eye makeup with the niqab, or is it natural and human nature? Are these women wrong or normal?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Maybe the Muslim theology student was simply pleased that his wife chose to show her body to only him. And it's not uncommon for men to get excited by a woman who makes them feel special and important in any way.

In Islam gazing inevitably leads to lust (in many cases). Lust may lead to greater sins. To permit women ( or men) to show off their adornments and say no sin will ever result is just false.

Newsflash- if men and women marry, no need to have sex outside of marriage...or have sex with animals. ?

The Muslim theology student, of course, was kind of a sleaze. He loved spending time with female students, but for his own wife, I guess he wanted someone "pure." Fair enough.

Of course, pp, your description of Islam sounds consistent to what I have seen in practice. Narrow, legalistic, and overly onerous. To cover your entire body so that you can save some poor man from the risk of lust- I guess if you feel this is for the glory of God, good for you.

It's not that burdensome for many Muslim women to wear hijab. For many hijab wearers, it's more dignified than using their hair (or cleavage, legs, or any other part of their body) to attract a man's attention.

This does not make sense, considering the numbers of women wearing hijabs and super-skin-tight jeans and tops, as well as lots of makeup, that I have seen.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Maybe the Muslim theology student was simply pleased that his wife chose to show her body to only him. And it's not uncommon for men to get excited by a woman who makes them feel special and important in any way.

In Islam gazing inevitably leads to lust (in many cases). Lust may lead to greater sins. To permit women ( or men) to show off their adornments and say no sin will ever result is just false.

Newsflash- if men and women marry, no need to have sex outside of marriage...or have sex with animals. ?

The Muslim theology student, of course, was kind of a sleaze. He loved spending time with female students, but for his own wife, I guess he wanted someone "pure." Fair enough.

Of course, pp, your description of Islam sounds consistent to what I have seen in practice. Narrow, legalistic, and overly onerous. To cover your entire body so that you can save some poor man from the risk of lust- I guess if you feel this is for the glory of God, good for you.

It's not that burdensome for many Muslim women to wear hijab. For many hijab wearers, it's more dignified than using their hair (or cleavage, legs, or any other part of their body) to attract a man's attention.

Honey, if there was anything dignified about wearing hijabs, men would be wearing them.

Another false dichotomy: no hijab=using your hair/legs/body to attract a man. So untrue. I suppose you need to tell yourself that, though.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Maybe the Muslim theology student was simply pleased that his wife chose to show her body to only him. And it's not uncommon for men to get excited by a woman who makes them feel special and important in any way.

In Islam gazing inevitably leads to lust (in many cases). Lust may lead to greater sins. To permit women ( or men) to show off their adornments and say no sin will ever result is just false.

Newsflash- if men and women marry, no need to have sex outside of marriage...or have sex with animals. ?

The Muslim theology student, of course, was kind of a sleaze. He loved spending time with female students, but for his own wife, I guess he wanted someone "pure." Fair enough.

Of course, pp, your description of Islam sounds consistent to what I have seen in practice. Narrow, legalistic, and overly onerous. To cover your entire body so that you can save some poor man from the risk of lust- I guess if you feel this is for the glory of God, good for you.

It's not that burdensome for many Muslim women to wear hijab. For many hijab wearers, it's more dignified than using their hair (or cleavage, legs, or any other part of their body) to attract a man's attention.

Honey, if there was anything dignified about wearing hijabs, men would be wearing them.

Lets try to refrain from the condescension ("honey"), shall we? I suppose if wearing booty shorts, exposing thighs, or tossing their hair around were dignified, men would be doing it too, no?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Maybe the Muslim theology student was simply pleased that his wife chose to show her body to only him. And it's not uncommon for men to get excited by a woman who makes them feel special and important in any way.

In Islam gazing inevitably leads to lust (in many cases). Lust may lead to greater sins. To permit women ( or men) to show off their adornments and say no sin will ever result is just false.

Newsflash- if men and women marry, no need to have sex outside of marriage...or have sex with animals. ?

The Muslim theology student, of course, was kind of a sleaze. He loved spending time with female students, but for his own wife, I guess he wanted someone "pure." Fair enough.

Of course, pp, your description of Islam sounds consistent to what I have seen in practice. Narrow, legalistic, and overly onerous. To cover your entire body so that you can save some poor man from the risk of lust- I guess if you feel this is for the glory of God, good for you.

It's not that burdensome for many Muslim women to wear hijab. For many hijab wearers, it's more dignified than using their hair (or cleavage, legs, or any other part of their body) to attract a man's attention.

Honey, if there was anything dignified about wearing hijabs, men would be wearing them.

Lets try to refrain from the condescension ("honey"), shall we? I suppose if wearing booty shorts, exposing thighs, or tossing their hair around were dignified, men would be doing it too, no?

Are women wearing booty shorts trying to promote it as dignified? I didn't see that post.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Maybe the Muslim theology student was simply pleased that his wife chose to show her body to only him. And it's not uncommon for men to get excited by a woman who makes them feel special and important in any way.

In Islam gazing inevitably leads to lust (in many cases). Lust may lead to greater sins. To permit women ( or men) to show off their adornments and say no sin will ever result is just false.

Newsflash- if men and women marry, no need to have sex outside of marriage...or have sex with animals. ?

The Muslim theology student, of course, was kind of a sleaze. He loved spending time with female students, but for his own wife, I guess he wanted someone "pure." Fair enough.

Of course, pp, your description of Islam sounds consistent to what I have seen in practice. Narrow, legalistic, and overly onerous. To cover your entire body so that you can save some poor man from the risk of lust- I guess if you feel this is for the glory of God, good for you.

It's not that burdensome for many Muslim women to wear hijab. For many hijab wearers, it's more dignified than using their hair (or cleavage, legs, or any other part of their body) to attract a man's attention.

Honey, if there was anything dignified about wearing hijabs, men would be wearing them.

Lets try to refrain from the condescension ("honey"), shall we? I suppose if wearing booty shorts, exposing thighs, or tossing their hair around were dignified, men would be doing it too, no?

Why don't you refrain from the condescension. Namely, stop saying that all Western women wear booty shorts, and that we do it purely to attract men, who will exploit us.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Maybe the Muslim theology student was simply pleased that his wife chose to show her body to only him. And it's not uncommon for men to get excited by a woman who makes them feel special and important in any way.

In Islam gazing inevitably leads to lust (in many cases). Lust may lead to greater sins. To permit women ( or men) to show off their adornments and say no sin will ever result is just false.

Newsflash- if men and women marry, no need to have sex outside of marriage...or have sex with animals. ?

The Muslim theology student, of course, was kind of a sleaze. He loved spending time with female students, but for his own wife, I guess he wanted someone "pure." Fair enough.

Of course, pp, your description of Islam sounds consistent to what I have seen in practice. Narrow, legalistic, and overly onerous. To cover your entire body so that you can save some poor man from the risk of lust- I guess if you feel this is for the glory of God, good for you.

It's not that burdensome for many Muslim women to wear hijab. For many hijab wearers, it's more dignified than using their hair (or cleavage, legs, or any other part of their body) to attract a man's attention.

This does not make sense, considering the numbers of women wearing hijabs and super-skin-tight jeans and tops, as well as lots of makeup, that I have seen.

Obviously there are young women who perhaps don't understand the reasons for hijab or wish to show off their adornments, ornaments (whatever you wish to refer to their assets as). This doesn't mean all hijabi women are hypocrites.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Maybe the Muslim theology student was simply pleased that his wife chose to show her body to only him. And it's not uncommon for men to get excited by a woman who makes them feel special and important in any way.

In Islam gazing inevitably leads to lust (in many cases). Lust may lead to greater sins. To permit women ( or men) to show off their adornments and say no sin will ever result is just false.

Newsflash- if men and women marry, no need to have sex outside of marriage...or have sex with animals. ?

The Muslim theology student, of course, was kind of a sleaze. He loved spending time with female students, but for his own wife, I guess he wanted someone "pure." Fair enough.

Of course, pp, your description of Islam sounds consistent to what I have seen in practice. Narrow, legalistic, and overly onerous. To cover your entire body so that you can save some poor man from the risk of lust- I guess if you feel this is for the glory of God, good for you.

It's not that burdensome for many Muslim women to wear hijab. For many hijab wearers, it's more dignified than using their hair (or cleavage, legs, or any other part of their body) to attract a man's attention.

This does not make sense, considering the numbers of women wearing hijabs and super-skin-tight jeans and tops, as well as lots of makeup, that I have seen.

Obviously there are young women who perhaps don't understand the reasons for hijab or wish to show off their adornments, ornaments (whatever you wish to refer to their assets as). This doesn't mean all hijabi women are hypocrites.

You just judged those hijabis wearing skinny jeans and makeup as hypocrites, proving that women dress for other women, both to judge and be judged by other women. It's human nature.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Maybe the Muslim theology student was simply pleased that his wife chose to show her body to only him. And it's not uncommon for men to get excited by a woman who makes them feel special and important in any way.

In Islam gazing inevitably leads to lust (in many cases). Lust may lead to greater sins. To permit women ( or men) to show off their adornments and say no sin will ever result is just false.

Newsflash- if men and women marry, no need to have sex outside of marriage...or have sex with animals. ?

The Muslim theology student, of course, was kind of a sleaze. He loved spending time with female students, but for his own wife, I guess he wanted someone "pure." Fair enough.

Of course, pp, your description of Islam sounds consistent to what I have seen in practice. Narrow, legalistic, and overly onerous. To cover your entire body so that you can save some poor man from the risk of lust- I guess if you feel this is for the glory of God, good for you.

It's not that burdensome for many Muslim women to wear hijab. For many hijab wearers, it's more dignified than using their hair (or cleavage, legs, or any other part of their body) to attract a man's attention.

Honey, if there was anything dignified about wearing hijabs, men would be wearing them.

Lets try to refrain from the condescension ("honey"), shall we? I suppose if wearing booty shorts, exposing thighs, or tossing their hair around were dignified, men would be doing it too, no?

Why don't you refrain from the condescension. Namely, stop saying that all Western women wear booty shorts, and that we do it purely to attract men, who will exploit us.

Oh the irony. This lengthy thread is to convince Muslim women of their stupidity in allowing men to control them through veiling. Or to showcase Muslim womens gullibility in accepting hijab as important when, according to you, it is not. How is this not offensive to Muslim women who choose to wear hijab and believe it is an important part of their modesty? Yet when the tables are turned and western attire of shorts, skirts, using physical assets to attract men is questioned, you cry foul. Smh