Will SEC escape RIFs due to large number of exits?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This thread is so pathetic and sad. Children mining coal in 1905 literally had more work flexibility than this. Teenagers at McDonald’s seriously are treated with more respect and with greater professionalism.

Haha, nice to see you Russel Vought.

The SEC has plenty of flexibility. Even with rules around scheduling and RTO. I don’t know any employer that doesn’t have ways of monitoring their employees, let’s get real here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This thread is so pathetic and sad. Children mining coal in 1905 literally had more work flexibility than this. Teenagers at McDonald’s seriously are treated with more respect and with greater professionalism.

Haha, nice to see you Russel Vought.

The SEC has plenty of flexibility. Even with rules around scheduling and RTO. I don’t know any employer that doesn’t have ways of monitoring their employees, let’s get real here.

Most professional service firms monitor their employees in a very fair, easy way: WHETHER THE WORK GETS DONE. Not via badge swipes and monitoring where or when you ate lunch.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This thread is so pathetic and sad. Children mining coal in 1905 literally had more work flexibility than this. Teenagers at McDonald’s seriously are treated with more respect and with greater professionalism.

Haha, nice to see you Russel Vought.

The SEC has plenty of flexibility. Even with rules around scheduling and RTO. I don’t know any employer that doesn’t have ways of monitoring their employees, let’s get real here.

Most professional service firms monitor their employees in a very fair, easy way: WHETHER THE WORK GETS DONE. Not via badge swipes and monitoring where or when you ate lunch.

Most professional employers are more subtle. We all have to use the tools available to us. Monitoring is monitoring is monitoring.

No one is saying the SEC won’t come after you if your job isn’t getting done.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm not SEC, but another office with lots of lawyers, and we are having the same 8 hours versus 8.5 hours argument. We collectively hate ourselves for this.

I am SEC and someone asked this at an all group meeting discussing RTO.

We were explicitly told that you could NOT take your lunch at the end of the day, so you had to there 8.5 hours.

That extra half hour can really make a difference when people are trying to figure out much more complicated school logistics with RTO, but there was no ambiguity in their response.

Whether anyone would really enforce this, who knows.

The passive voice says it all. Told by whom? Where is it written? Did they reference anything authoritative? Or were they just talking out of their butt (like many on this thread)?

OGC leadership. So, no, I don’t think they were talking out of their asses.

Again, did they cite anything for this?

the source documents are all linked in the intranet in the various timesheet/schedule options. i'm not logging in over the weekend to find it for you. however, the only circumstances where you do not need to take a 30 minute unpaid lunch mid-day is if you are working for 6 hours or less.

and no, the on-site gym is not returning.

That’s nice, but nobody here has addressed the main issue: Time cards ask you to verify that you’ve worked 8 hours. Period. If you’ve worked 8 hours (ie, you were in the office for 8 hrs), your time card is accurate. End of story.

Whether you’ve somehow violated some obscure, vague, ambiguous HR policy that’s on the intranet is another issue entirely. It’s certainly not timecard fraud.

If they really cared about this, they could easily require staff to attest that they were IN THE OFFICE FOR 8.5 HOURS on their time cards. I know several agencies that do just that. It’s not hard.

They can’t have it both ways: Say that must do X with respect to working hours, but then NOT have you attest to whether you’ve indeed done X on your time card.

Passive voice or not…

When you get approval of your schedule (different software than the timesheet program), this schedule must fit within the various options. Assuming an 8 hour day:

You must have an approved schedule covering 8.5 hours that includes core hours 10-2. You have a 30 minute break for lunch, this can be spent in or out of the office, no one cares.

The agency will pull turnstile badge data, they have been doing this for years. Between your arrival to badge in (start) and your final departure badging out, you must have 8.5 total hours, start to finish, in this example.

Timesheet still says 8 hours worked a day but if you are only in for 8 and not 8.5 total (start to finish according to the turnstile data) you are not working your approved schedule. The agency has in the past accused and fired workers for not working a full 8 hours based on turnstile badging data.

So you can get technical about it but given that you must take lunch during the day, if you do not have the full 8.5 start to finish, you risk being accused of stealing time. It’s not just the timesheet that you have to certify to, it’s also that you are working your approved schedule on a regular basis, whatever that may be.

Nonsense. Nobody attests to their “approved schedule.” They attest to their time card only. And nobody in history has been accused of “schedule fraud.”

Based on your logic, an employee who goes to lunch across the street is “stealing time” because they’re not in the office for 8.5 hours. Also based on your logic, an employee with an approved schedule of 9-530 who instead worked 845 - 5:15 could also be fired for “approved schedule fraud.”

Be consistent. Do you have to be in the office for your 1/2 lunch or not? Cite a written authority that says one way or the other.

if someone is not on an approved flex schedule then yes, an employee with an approved schedule of 9-530 who instead regularly worked 845 - 5:15 without an approved schedule change could be disciplined for not working their scheduled hours. fixed schedules do not allow for credit hours or varying arrival and leave times. does the SEC currently discipline folks who do this? not that i've personally seen. the only person in my management chain that would have done this retired during covid. but if you are trying to force someone out, it's an easy place to direct the microscope because your formal schedule is a signed agreement between you and your supervisor.

anyway, i really hope you don't work at the SEC because you're a complete incompetent mess.

Different agency, but we were told that fixed schedules are as described here, very strict. If you are supposed to work 9-5 (or 5:30), and instead work 8-4 (or 4:30), then you have to take an hour annual leave to cover until end of TOD.

Is this a new thing with RTO, or has that always been the case?

Because this has definitely never been the case at the SEC, and I haven’t seen anything suggesting it will be the case now — at least yet.

Yes. This has always been the case.

Only if you don’t have a variety of flexible schedule.

Correct. But any schedule and any changes to the schedule, whether temporary for a day, week, etc. must be approved and accounted for in some fashion. Whether leave, earning and using CH, etc. This has always been the case, is not specific to the SEC and is not new with RTO.

Most managers don’t care. But aside from just professional courtesy, with the focus on reducing the workforce, why would you put yourself in the crosshairs by just coming and going without letting your manager know?

I’ve worked for three agencies (not SEC) and they have all had the “gliding” work schedule option where you can choose a band of 2 hours to arrive or depart within without manager approval.

[Anonymous]

Just a matter of time before “malicious compliance” takes hold — getting management approval for every single mundane deviation.

I’d HATE to be a manager these days. Gotta be the worst.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm not SEC, but another office with lots of lawyers, and we are having the same 8 hours versus 8.5 hours argument. We collectively hate ourselves for this.

I am SEC and someone asked this at an all group meeting discussing RTO.

We were explicitly told that you could NOT take your lunch at the end of the day, so you had to there 8.5 hours.

That extra half hour can really make a difference when people are trying to figure out much more complicated school logistics with RTO, but there was no ambiguity in their response.

Whether anyone would really enforce this, who knows.

The passive voice says it all. Told by whom? Where is it written? Did they reference anything authoritative? Or were they just talking out of their butt (like many on this thread)?

OGC leadership. So, no, I don’t think they were talking out of their asses.

Again, did they cite anything for this?

the source documents are all linked in the intranet in the various timesheet/schedule options. i'm not logging in over the weekend to find it for you. however, the only circumstances where you do not need to take a 30 minute unpaid lunch mid-day is if you are working for 6 hours or less.

and no, the on-site gym is not returning.

That’s nice, but nobody here has addressed the main issue: Time cards ask you to verify that you’ve worked 8 hours. Period. If you’ve worked 8 hours (ie, you were in the office for 8 hrs), your time card is accurate. End of story.

Whether you’ve somehow violated some obscure, vague, ambiguous HR policy that’s on the intranet is another issue entirely. It’s certainly not timecard fraud.

If they really cared about this, they could easily require staff to attest that they were IN THE OFFICE FOR 8.5 HOURS on their time cards. I know several agencies that do just that. It’s not hard.

They can’t have it both ways: Say that must do X with respect to working hours, but then NOT have you attest to whether you’ve indeed done X on your time card.

Passive voice or not…

When you get approval of your schedule (different software than the timesheet program), this schedule must fit within the various options. Assuming an 8 hour day:

You must have an approved schedule covering 8.5 hours that includes core hours 10-2. You have a 30 minute break for lunch, this can be spent in or out of the office, no one cares.

The agency will pull turnstile badge data, they have been doing this for years. Between your arrival to badge in (start) and your final departure badging out, you must have 8.5 total hours, start to finish, in this example.

Timesheet still says 8 hours worked a day but if you are only in for 8 and not 8.5 total (start to finish according to the turnstile data) you are not working your approved schedule. The agency has in the past accused and fired workers for not working a full 8 hours based on turnstile badging data.

So you can get technical about it but given that you must take lunch during the day, if you do not have the full 8.5 start to finish, you risk being accused of stealing time. It’s not just the timesheet that you have to certify to, it’s also that you are working your approved schedule on a regular basis, whatever that may be.

Nonsense. Nobody attests to their “approved schedule.” They attest to their time card only. And nobody in history has been accused of “schedule fraud.”

Based on your logic, an employee who goes to lunch across the street is “stealing time” because they’re not in the office for 8.5 hours. Also based on your logic, an employee with an approved schedule of 9-530 who instead worked 845 - 5:15 could also be fired for “approved schedule fraud.”

Be consistent. Do you have to be in the office for your 1/2 lunch or not? Cite a written authority that says one way or the other.

if someone is not on an approved flex schedule then yes, an employee with an approved schedule of 9-530 who instead regularly worked 845 - 5:15 without an approved schedule change could be disciplined for not working their scheduled hours. fixed schedules do not allow for credit hours or varying arrival and leave times. does the SEC currently discipline folks who do this? not that i've personally seen. the only person in my management chain that would have done this retired during covid. but if you are trying to force someone out, it's an easy place to direct the microscope because your formal schedule is a signed agreement between you and your supervisor.

anyway, i really hope you don't work at the SEC because you're a complete incompetent mess.

Different agency, but we were told that fixed schedules are as described here, very strict. If you are supposed to work 9-5 (or 5:30), and instead work 8-4 (or 4:30), then you have to take an hour annual leave to cover until end of TOD.

Is this a new thing with RTO, or has that always been the case?

Because this has definitely never been the case at the SEC, and I haven’t seen anything suggesting it will be the case now — at least yet.

Yes. This has always been the case.

Only if you don’t have a variety of flexible schedule.

Correct. But any schedule and any changes to the schedule, whether temporary for a day, week, etc. must be approved and accounted for in some fashion. Whether leave, earning and using CH, etc. This has always been the case, is not specific to the SEC and is not new with RTO.

Most managers don’t care. But aside from just professional courtesy, with the focus on reducing the workforce, why would you put yourself in the crosshairs by just coming and going without letting your manager know?

I’ve worked for three agencies (not SEC) and they have all had the “gliding” work schedule option where you can choose a band of 2 hours to arrive or depart within without manager approval.

I’ve worked at three agencies also. None had a gliding arrival band and they all required a set schedule.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm not SEC, but another office with lots of lawyers, and we are having the same 8 hours versus 8.5 hours argument. We collectively hate ourselves for this.

I am SEC and someone asked this at an all group meeting discussing RTO.

We were explicitly told that you could NOT take your lunch at the end of the day, so you had to there 8.5 hours.

That extra half hour can really make a difference when people are trying to figure out much more complicated school logistics with RTO, but there was no ambiguity in their response.

Whether anyone would really enforce this, who knows.

The passive voice says it all. Told by whom? Where is it written? Did they reference anything authoritative? Or were they just talking out of their butt (like many on this thread)?

OGC leadership. So, no, I don’t think they were talking out of their asses.

Again, did they cite anything for this?

the source documents are all linked in the intranet in the various timesheet/schedule options. i'm not logging in over the weekend to find it for you. however, the only circumstances where you do not need to take a 30 minute unpaid lunch mid-day is if you are working for 6 hours or less.

and no, the on-site gym is not returning.

That’s nice, but nobody here has addressed the main issue: Time cards ask you to verify that you’ve worked 8 hours. Period. If you’ve worked 8 hours (ie, you were in the office for 8 hrs), your time card is accurate. End of story.

Whether you’ve somehow violated some obscure, vague, ambiguous HR policy that’s on the intranet is another issue entirely. It’s certainly not timecard fraud.

If they really cared about this, they could easily require staff to attest that they were IN THE OFFICE FOR 8.5 HOURS on their time cards. I know several agencies that do just that. It’s not hard.

They can’t have it both ways: Say that must do X with respect to working hours, but then NOT have you attest to whether you’ve indeed done X on your time card.

Passive voice or not…

When you get approval of your schedule (different software than the timesheet program), this schedule must fit within the various options. Assuming an 8 hour day:

You must have an approved schedule covering 8.5 hours that includes core hours 10-2. You have a 30 minute break for lunch, this can be spent in or out of the office, no one cares.

The agency will pull turnstile badge data, they have been doing this for years. Between your arrival to badge in (start) and your final departure badging out, you must have 8.5 total hours, start to finish, in this example.

Timesheet still says 8 hours worked a day but if you are only in for 8 and not 8.5 total (start to finish according to the turnstile data) you are not working your approved schedule. The agency has in the past accused and fired workers for not working a full 8 hours based on turnstile badging data.

So you can get technical about it but given that you must take lunch during the day, if you do not have the full 8.5 start to finish, you risk being accused of stealing time. It’s not just the timesheet that you have to certify to, it’s also that you are working your approved schedule on a regular basis, whatever that may be.

Nonsense. Nobody attests to their “approved schedule.” They attest to their time card only. And nobody in history has been accused of “schedule fraud.”

Based on your logic, an employee who goes to lunch across the street is “stealing time” because they’re not in the office for 8.5 hours. Also based on your logic, an employee with an approved schedule of 9-530 who instead worked 845 - 5:15 could also be fired for “approved schedule fraud.”

Be consistent. Do you have to be in the office for your 1/2 lunch or not? Cite a written authority that says one way or the other.

if someone is not on an approved flex schedule then yes, an employee with an approved schedule of 9-530 who instead regularly worked 845 - 5:15 without an approved schedule change could be disciplined for not working their scheduled hours. fixed schedules do not allow for credit hours or varying arrival and leave times. does the SEC currently discipline folks who do this? not that i've personally seen. the only person in my management chain that would have done this retired during covid. but if you are trying to force someone out, it's an easy place to direct the microscope because your formal schedule is a signed agreement between you and your supervisor.

anyway, i really hope you don't work at the SEC because you're a complete incompetent mess.

Different agency, but we were told that fixed schedules are as described here, very strict. If you are supposed to work 9-5 (or 5:30), and instead work 8-4 (or 4:30), then you have to take an hour annual leave to cover until end of TOD.

Is this a new thing with RTO, or has that always been the case?

Because this has definitely never been the case at the SEC, and I haven’t seen anything suggesting it will be the case now — at least yet.

Yes. This has always been the case.

Disagree you can email your supervisor and ask to work varied hours that day. 9-5:30 instead of 8-4:30.

Yes. Operative part of that is supervisor notification. Some supervisors are ok with temporary schedule shifts, some want you to use credit hours, leave, etc. A manger agreeing to a temporary shift without accounting for it is a courtesy on the supervisor’s part. They could require a full accounting for the time, i.e. coming in early, earning credit hours and taking the credit hours at the end of the day.

In my time at the SEC I have never seen a supervisor want that sort of accounting, and unless orders come from above that it is necessary now, I don’t think that’s going to change as long as you are getting your work done and it is just a time shift and you aren’t getting fast and loose with the total amount of time in the office.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm not SEC, but another office with lots of lawyers, and we are having the same 8 hours versus 8.5 hours argument. We collectively hate ourselves for this.

I am SEC and someone asked this at an all group meeting discussing RTO.

We were explicitly told that you could NOT take your lunch at the end of the day, so you had to there 8.5 hours.

That extra half hour can really make a difference when people are trying to figure out much more complicated school logistics with RTO, but there was no ambiguity in their response.

Whether anyone would really enforce this, who knows.

The passive voice says it all. Told by whom? Where is it written? Did they reference anything authoritative? Or were they just talking out of their butt (like many on this thread)?

OGC leadership. So, no, I don’t think they were talking out of their asses.

Again, did they cite anything for this?

the source documents are all linked in the intranet in the various timesheet/schedule options. i'm not logging in over the weekend to find it for you. however, the only circumstances where you do not need to take a 30 minute unpaid lunch mid-day is if you are working for 6 hours or less.

and no, the on-site gym is not returning.

That’s nice, but nobody here has addressed the main issue: Time cards ask you to verify that you’ve worked 8 hours. Period. If you’ve worked 8 hours (ie, you were in the office for 8 hrs), your time card is accurate. End of story.

Whether you’ve somehow violated some obscure, vague, ambiguous HR policy that’s on the intranet is another issue entirely. It’s certainly not timecard fraud.

If they really cared about this, they could easily require staff to attest that they were IN THE OFFICE FOR 8.5 HOURS on their time cards. I know several agencies that do just that. It’s not hard.

They can’t have it both ways: Say that must do X with respect to working hours, but then NOT have you attest to whether you’ve indeed done X on your time card.

Passive voice or not…

When you get approval of your schedule (different software than the timesheet program), this schedule must fit within the various options. Assuming an 8 hour day:

You must have an approved schedule covering 8.5 hours that includes core hours 10-2. You have a 30 minute break for lunch, this can be spent in or out of the office, no one cares.

The agency will pull turnstile badge data, they have been doing this for years. Between your arrival to badge in (start) and your final departure badging out, you must have 8.5 total hours, start to finish, in this example.

Timesheet still says 8 hours worked a day but if you are only in for 8 and not 8.5 total (start to finish according to the turnstile data) you are not working your approved schedule. The agency has in the past accused and fired workers for not working a full 8 hours based on turnstile badging data.

So you can get technical about it but given that you must take lunch during the day, if you do not have the full 8.5 start to finish, you risk being accused of stealing time. It’s not just the timesheet that you have to certify to, it’s also that you are working your approved schedule on a regular basis, whatever that may be.

Nonsense. Nobody attests to their “approved schedule.” They attest to their time card only. And nobody in history has been accused of “schedule fraud.”

Based on your logic, an employee who goes to lunch across the street is “stealing time” because they’re not in the office for 8.5 hours. Also based on your logic, an employee with an approved schedule of 9-530 who instead worked 845 - 5:15 could also be fired for “approved schedule fraud.”

Be consistent. Do you have to be in the office for your 1/2 lunch or not? Cite a written authority that says one way or the other.

if someone is not on an approved flex schedule then yes, an employee with an approved schedule of 9-530 who instead regularly worked 845 - 5:15 without an approved schedule change could be disciplined for not working their scheduled hours. fixed schedules do not allow for credit hours or varying arrival and leave times. does the SEC currently discipline folks who do this? not that i've personally seen. the only person in my management chain that would have done this retired during covid. but if you are trying to force someone out, it's an easy place to direct the microscope because your formal schedule is a signed agreement between you and your supervisor.

anyway, i really hope you don't work at the SEC because you're a complete incompetent mess.

Different agency, but we were told that fixed schedules are as described here, very strict. If you are supposed to work 9-5 (or 5:30), and instead work 8-4 (or 4:30), then you have to take an hour annual leave to cover until end of TOD.

Is this a new thing with RTO, or has that always been the case?

Because this has definitely never been the case at the SEC, and I haven’t seen anything suggesting it will be the case now — at least yet.

Yes. This has always been the case.

Only if you don’t have a variety of flexible schedule.

Correct. But any schedule and any changes to the schedule, whether temporary for a day, week, etc. must be approved and accounted for in some fashion. Whether leave, earning and using CH, etc. This has always been the case, is not specific to the SEC and is not new with RTO.

Most managers don’t care. But aside from just professional courtesy, with the focus on reducing the workforce, why would you put yourself in the crosshairs by just coming and going without letting your manager know?

I’ve worked for three agencies (not SEC) and they have all had the “gliding” work schedule option where you can choose a band of 2 hours to arrive or depart within without manager approval.

I’ve worked at three agencies also. None had a gliding arrival band and they all required a set schedule.

That you actually had to arrive at a specific minute? I find that hard to believe.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, that’s not correct. 42.5 hours in the office per week, with rare telework in limited circumstances.

They can’t force you to eat lunch “in the office.” Time cards merely ask you to verify 40 hours of work. Period. As long as you eat lunch before 3:00.

Not sure where everyone comes up with all these extraneous supposed rules that are neither written nor enforceable.

If you look at the CBA, it says you can’t use your lunch to shorten your day or not take lunch one day to take a longer one another day.

So, if you are in the office from 9-5, there is no way you can properly record 8 hours of work.

https://www.secunion.org/article-7-work-schedules

Well, first off, the agency has thrown the CBA out the window. They can’t pick and choose which provisions they like or don’t. Second, the CBA isn’t policy anyway (as we’ve seen with telework).

Third, I can work from 630 - 230. Then go to lunch (wherever I want). 8 hours of work done. Timecard is perfectly accurate.

Wrong. See FLSA.

They’re corresponding badge swipes to time cards. You’re required to have an unpaid lunch in the office. Swiping for only 8 hours means you’re defrauding the government of 0.5 hours/day.

You do you, but seems like a sure fire way to be on the future RIF list.

You’re just making stuff up. Nothing says that you can’t take your lunch outside the office. So you’re saying I can’t go to a nearby restaurant for lunch? Isn’t that Bowser’s whole rationale for loving RTO??

Sure you can. But you’re making stuff up if you think you can take “lunch” at 2:30 and pretend you worked 8 hours after being in the office from 6:30am (as though you didn’t eat). I suggest you reach out to OHR or OGC. Guarantee they’ll tell you it’s 8.5 hours in the office inclusive of unpaid lunch (wherever you want to take it), and you can’t use the unpaid lunch to shorten your work day by 30 min.

Nobody’s pretending. I did work from 630-2:30. Why the hell does it matter when or where I eat lunch?? The government got 8 hrs of work from me, and I was paid for 8 hrs.

You are LITERALLY saving your lunch (and breakfast?) to shorten your work day. Good luck to you!

You literally must be pretty low on the totem pole to not get this. If you have worked 8 hours in the office, you are NOT shortening your day. There is NO requirement to be in the office for 8.5 hours. There is a requirement to have 1/2 hour of unpaid lunch, which does NOT equate to being in the office for 8.5 hours. I can't help you connect the dots--critical thinking skills start at a young age and if it's not developed then, it may not develop.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would like to know if UNIONIZED employees can have their badge swipes reviewed without notification to them. If anyone knows this for sure, please respond. Yes I will also ask my union steward next month when we go back. But just curious if anyone knows.

Badge swipe reviews are the easiest way to terminate an SEC employee and it's been used in the past. No messy termination effort-swipes evidence is enough IF your supervisor wants you out. No need to prove anything else or exaggeration _ make up performance problems.

So stupid. So they don’t care what you do in the building, as long as you swiped a piece of plastic at certain times. If that’s all they measure, that’s all they’ll get.

Basically, people will be paid over $200k a year plus good benefits to show up at a building and sit in an air conditioned office for 8.5 hours (and write 5 meaningless bullets once a week). Not too shabby, actually, relatively speaking. Millions of people would give their left arms for that arrangement.

elon? is that you? you seem dumb enough.

the point being, is that you can be doing an excellent job and important work (and that work is measured in your performance plan, not in badge swipes or bullet points to opm) AND YET if your management or doge feels like causing problems for you, ignoring agency policy about the fact you must work ALL of your scheduled work hours at the office, AND that you must additionally schedule a 30 minutes unpaid lunch break in the middle (bot the end) of the block of time you are working unless you are on a flex schedule and that day's hours are no more than 6. it would be a stupid way to lose one's job but we live in stupid times.

people in other agencies have already lost their jobs for accepting a promotion. civil service is going to be an ongoing series of sh-ttests and gotchas for the next several years because elon and crew want everyone to quit. too bad. i swore an oath to the constitution and i'm going to keep it even if brats like you just keep whining simultaneously about how it's unfair how much we're paid and how it's unfair that we can't leave for the day 8 hours after we clock in, instead of 8.5.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, that’s not correct. 42.5 hours in the office per week, with rare telework in limited circumstances.

They can’t force you to eat lunch “in the office.” Time cards merely ask you to verify 40 hours of work. Period. As long as you eat lunch before 3:00.

Not sure where everyone comes up with all these extraneous supposed rules that are neither written nor enforceable.

If you look at the CBA, it says you can’t use your lunch to shorten your day or not take lunch one day to take a longer one another day.

So, if you are in the office from 9-5, there is no way you can properly record 8 hours of work.

https://www.secunion.org/article-7-work-schedules

Well, first off, the agency has thrown the CBA out the window. They can’t pick and choose which provisions they like or don’t. Second, the CBA isn’t policy anyway (as we’ve seen with telework).

Third, I can work from 630 - 230. Then go to lunch (wherever I want). 8 hours of work done. Timecard is perfectly accurate.

Wrong. See FLSA.

They’re corresponding badge swipes to time cards. You’re required to have an unpaid lunch in the office. Swiping for only 8 hours means you’re defrauding the government of 0.5 hours/day.

You do you, but seems like a sure fire way to be on the future RIF list.

You’re just making stuff up. Nothing says that you can’t take your lunch outside the office. So you’re saying I can’t go to a nearby restaurant for lunch? Isn’t that Bowser’s whole rationale for loving RTO??

Sure you can. But you’re making stuff up if you think you can take “lunch” at 2:30 and pretend you worked 8 hours after being in the office from 6:30am (as though you didn’t eat). I suggest you reach out to OHR or OGC. Guarantee they’ll tell you it’s 8.5 hours in the office inclusive of unpaid lunch (wherever you want to take it), and you can’t use the unpaid lunch to shorten your work day by 30 min.

Nobody’s pretending. I did work from 630-2:30. Why the hell does it matter when or where I eat lunch?? The government got 8 hrs of work from me, and I was paid for 8 hrs.

You are LITERALLY saving your lunch (and breakfast?) to shorten your work day. Good luck to you!

You literally must be pretty low on the totem pole to not get this. If you have worked 8 hours in the office, you are NOT shortening your day. There is NO requirement to be in the office for 8.5 hours. There is a requirement to have 1/2 hour of unpaid lunch, which does NOT equate to being in the office for 8.5 hours. I can't help you connect the dots--critical thinking skills start at a young age and if it's not developed then, it may not develop.

Ffs. Look up your agency’s work schedule policies. many/most agencies require unpaid lunch and forbid saving it to shorten the day.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, that’s not correct. 42.5 hours in the office per week, with rare telework in limited circumstances.

They can’t force you to eat lunch “in the office.” Time cards merely ask you to verify 40 hours of work. Period. As long as you eat lunch before 3:00.

Not sure where everyone comes up with all these extraneous supposed rules that are neither written nor enforceable.

If you look at the CBA, it says you can’t use your lunch to shorten your day or not take lunch one day to take a longer one another day.

So, if you are in the office from 9-5, there is no way you can properly record 8 hours of work.

https://www.secunion.org/article-7-work-schedules

Well, first off, the agency has thrown the CBA out the window. They can’t pick and choose which provisions they like or don’t. Second, the CBA isn’t policy anyway (as we’ve seen with telework).

Third, I can work from 630 - 230. Then go to lunch (wherever I want). 8 hours of work done. Timecard is perfectly accurate.

Wrong. See FLSA.

They’re corresponding badge swipes to time cards. You’re required to have an unpaid lunch in the office. Swiping for only 8 hours means you’re defrauding the government of 0.5 hours/day.

You do you, but seems like a sure fire way to be on the future RIF list.

You’re just making stuff up. Nothing says that you can’t take your lunch outside the office. So you’re saying I can’t go to a nearby restaurant for lunch? Isn’t that Bowser’s whole rationale for loving RTO??

Sure you can. But you’re making stuff up if you think you can take “lunch” at 2:30 and pretend you worked 8 hours after being in the office from 6:30am (as though you didn’t eat). I suggest you reach out to OHR or OGC. Guarantee they’ll tell you it’s 8.5 hours in the office inclusive of unpaid lunch (wherever you want to take it), and you can’t use the unpaid lunch to shorten your work day by 30 min.

Nobody’s pretending. I did work from 630-2:30. Why the hell does it matter when or where I eat lunch?? The government got 8 hrs of work from me, and I was paid for 8 hrs.

You are LITERALLY saving your lunch (and breakfast?) to shorten your work day. Good luck to you!

You literally must be pretty low on the totem pole to not get this. If you have worked 8 hours in the office, you are NOT shortening your day. There is NO requirement to be in the office for 8.5 hours. There is a requirement to have 1/2 hour of unpaid lunch, which does NOT equate to being in the office for 8.5 hours. I can't help you connect the dots--critical thinking skills start at a young age and if it's not developed then, it may not develop.

Well said. I suspect that several people on this thread are HR or OGC who realized they screwed up on the time cards policy and now realize that they really can’t enforce their silly 1/2 hour lunch thing, and now resort to “well, that’s we MEANT” arguments. Sorry. If that’s what you meant, change the time card attestation. Otherwise, be quiet — you come off as desperate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, that’s not correct. 42.5 hours in the office per week, with rare telework in limited circumstances.

They can’t force you to eat lunch “in the office.” Time cards merely ask you to verify 40 hours of work. Period. As long as you eat lunch before 3:00.

Not sure where everyone comes up with all these extraneous supposed rules that are neither written nor enforceable.

If you look at the CBA, it says you can’t use your lunch to shorten your day or not take lunch one day to take a longer one another day.

So, if you are in the office from 9-5, there is no way you can properly record 8 hours of work.

https://www.secunion.org/article-7-work-schedules

Well, first off, the agency has thrown the CBA out the window. They can’t pick and choose which provisions they like or don’t. Second, the CBA isn’t policy anyway (as we’ve seen with telework).

Third, I can work from 630 - 230. Then go to lunch (wherever I want). 8 hours of work done. Timecard is perfectly accurate.

Wrong. See FLSA.

They’re corresponding badge swipes to time cards. You’re required to have an unpaid lunch in the office. Swiping for only 8 hours means you’re defrauding the government of 0.5 hours/day.

You do you, but seems like a sure fire way to be on the future RIF list.

You’re just making stuff up. Nothing says that you can’t take your lunch outside the office. So you’re saying I can’t go to a nearby restaurant for lunch? Isn’t that Bowser’s whole rationale for loving RTO??

Sure you can. But you’re making stuff up if you think you can take “lunch” at 2:30 and pretend you worked 8 hours after being in the office from 6:30am (as though you didn’t eat). I suggest you reach out to OHR or OGC. Guarantee they’ll tell you it’s 8.5 hours in the office inclusive of unpaid lunch (wherever you want to take it), and you can’t use the unpaid lunch to shorten your work day by 30 min.

Nobody’s pretending. I did work from 630-2:30. Why the hell does it matter when or where I eat lunch?? The government got 8 hrs of work from me, and I was paid for 8 hrs.

You are LITERALLY saving your lunch (and breakfast?) to shorten your work day. Good luck to you!

You literally must be pretty low on the totem pole to not get this. If you have worked 8 hours in the office, you are NOT shortening your day. There is NO requirement to be in the office for 8.5 hours. There is a requirement to have 1/2 hour of unpaid lunch, which does NOT equate to being in the office for 8.5 hours. I can't help you connect the dots--critical thinking skills start at a young age and if it's not developed then, it may not develop.

Well said. I suspect that several people on this thread are HR or OGC who realized they screwed up on the time cards policy and now realize that they really can’t enforce their silly 1/2 hour lunch thing, and now resort to “well, that’s we MEANT” arguments. Sorry. If that’s what you meant, change the time card attestation. Otherwise, be quiet — you come off as desperate.

Until you actually look up your agency’s written policy on this and report back, your viewpoint is meaningless. My agency (not SEC) is very clear that the 30 minute unpaid lunch cannot be taken at the end or beginning of the day, which in effect means you have to be in the office 8.5 hrs total. While it may not be time card fraud to violate the policy, it’s definitely a different violation of agency policy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, that’s not correct. 42.5 hours in the office per week, with rare telework in limited circumstances.

They can’t force you to eat lunch “in the office.” Time cards merely ask you to verify 40 hours of work. Period. As long as you eat lunch before 3:00.

Not sure where everyone comes up with all these extraneous supposed rules that are neither written nor enforceable.

If you look at the CBA, it says you can’t use your lunch to shorten your day or not take lunch one day to take a longer one another day.

So, if you are in the office from 9-5, there is no way you can properly record 8 hours of work.

https://www.secunion.org/article-7-work-schedules

Well, first off, the agency has thrown the CBA out the window. They can’t pick and choose which provisions they like or don’t. Second, the CBA isn’t policy anyway (as we’ve seen with telework).

Third, I can work from 630 - 230. Then go to lunch (wherever I want). 8 hours of work done. Timecard is perfectly accurate.

Wrong. See FLSA.

They’re corresponding badge swipes to time cards. You’re required to have an unpaid lunch in the office. Swiping for only 8 hours means you’re defrauding the government of 0.5 hours/day.

You do you, but seems like a sure fire way to be on the future RIF list.

You’re just making stuff up. Nothing says that you can’t take your lunch outside the office. So you’re saying I can’t go to a nearby restaurant for lunch? Isn’t that Bowser’s whole rationale for loving RTO??

Sure you can. But you’re making stuff up if you think you can take “lunch” at 2:30 and pretend you worked 8 hours after being in the office from 6:30am (as though you didn’t eat). I suggest you reach out to OHR or OGC. Guarantee they’ll tell you it’s 8.5 hours in the office inclusive of unpaid lunch (wherever you want to take it), and you can’t use the unpaid lunch to shorten your work day by 30 min.

Nobody’s pretending. I did work from 630-2:30. Why the hell does it matter when or where I eat lunch?? The government got 8 hrs of work from me, and I was paid for 8 hrs.

You are LITERALLY saving your lunch (and breakfast?) to shorten your work day. Good luck to you!

You literally must be pretty low on the totem pole to not get this. If you have worked 8 hours in the office, you are NOT shortening your day. There is NO requirement to be in the office for 8.5 hours. There is a requirement to have 1/2 hour of unpaid lunch, which does NOT equate to being in the office for 8.5 hours. I can't help you connect the dots--critical thinking skills start at a young age and if it's not developed then, it may not develop.

Ffs. Look up your agency’s work schedule policies. many/most agencies require unpaid lunch and forbid saving it to shorten the day.

Ffs. Again, nobody’s “shortening” anything. I’ve worked for 8 hours and took a 1/2 hr lunch (albeit sometimes outside the office, which everyone says is allowed). What’s the issue? If you want something else, incorporate it into the timecard instead of barking on DCUM. Are you really that lazy or inept?

Even coal miners are allowed to eat lunch outside the mine.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, that’s not correct. 42.5 hours in the office per week, with rare telework in limited circumstances.

They can’t force you to eat lunch “in the office.” Time cards merely ask you to verify 40 hours of work. Period. As long as you eat lunch before 3:00.

Not sure where everyone comes up with all these extraneous supposed rules that are neither written nor enforceable.

If you look at the CBA, it says you can’t use your lunch to shorten your day or not take lunch one day to take a longer one another day.

So, if you are in the office from 9-5, there is no way you can properly record 8 hours of work.

https://www.secunion.org/article-7-work-schedules

Well, first off, the agency has thrown the CBA out the window. They can’t pick and choose which provisions they like or don’t. Second, the CBA isn’t policy anyway (as we’ve seen with telework).

Third, I can work from 630 - 230. Then go to lunch (wherever I want). 8 hours of work done. Timecard is perfectly accurate.

Wrong. See FLSA.

They’re corresponding badge swipes to time cards. You’re required to have an unpaid lunch in the office. Swiping for only 8 hours means you’re defrauding the government of 0.5 hours/day.

You do you, but seems like a sure fire way to be on the future RIF list.

You’re just making stuff up. Nothing says that you can’t take your lunch outside the office. So you’re saying I can’t go to a nearby restaurant for lunch? Isn’t that Bowser’s whole rationale for loving RTO??

Sure you can. But you’re making stuff up if you think you can take “lunch” at 2:30 and pretend you worked 8 hours after being in the office from 6:30am (as though you didn’t eat). I suggest you reach out to OHR or OGC. Guarantee they’ll tell you it’s 8.5 hours in the office inclusive of unpaid lunch (wherever you want to take it), and you can’t use the unpaid lunch to shorten your work day by 30 min.

Nobody’s pretending. I did work from 630-2:30. Why the hell does it matter when or where I eat lunch?? The government got 8 hrs of work from me, and I was paid for 8 hrs.

You are LITERALLY saving your lunch (and breakfast?) to shorten your work day. Good luck to you!

You literally must be pretty low on the totem pole to not get this. If you have worked 8 hours in the office, you are NOT shortening your day. There is NO requirement to be in the office for 8.5 hours. There is a requirement to have 1/2 hour of unpaid lunch, which does NOT equate to being in the office for 8.5 hours. I can't help you connect the dots--critical thinking skills start at a young age and if it's not developed then, it may not develop.

Well said. I suspect that several people on this thread are HR or OGC who realized they screwed up on the time cards policy and now realize that they really can’t enforce their silly 1/2 hour lunch thing, and now resort to “well, that’s we MEANT” arguments. Sorry. If that’s what you meant, change the time card attestation. Otherwise, be quiet — you come off as desperate.

Until you actually look up your agency’s written policy on this and report back, your viewpoint is meaningless. My agency (not SEC) is very clear that the 30 minute unpaid lunch cannot be taken at the end or beginning of the day, which in effect means you have to be in the office 8.5 hrs total. While it may not be time card fraud to violate the policy, it’s definitely a different violation of agency policy.

Sec policy says nothing about beginning or end. It only says before 3.