Are you offended when someone says they “didnt want someone else to raise my kids”?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I get it, because it’s true, even if people don’t want to admit that’s what’s happening when children are in full-time daycare. But in polite society we avoid saying things that might hurt someone’s feelings, regardless of whether it’s truthful or not.

But it’s not truthful. My kids went to daycare, and, sure, their daycare teachers, who were all wonderful, provided care during the workday. But my spouse and I made the decisions on how to parent, which included finding great caregivers.

If your children go to daycare for 10-11 (7-6 or 7:30-5:30) hours a day for the first 4-5 years of life and sleep 10-12 hours a night then you are not spending 4-5 hours with them each day 70% of the week. How is this controversial? You are outsourcing a lot of parenting duties to other caregivers. Someone saying that they don’t want to do that is not wrong. And I’m saying this as a full time working parent.

I actually did the math with my neighbor who was a SAHM and I did spend more 1-1 time with my kids than she did.

1st. My H's time counted and I know many of SAHP's who are the 1st to tell you that their H does nothing, works late, travels a lot.
2nd: She did not take into account napping, time in front of TV, time they were in the basement playing and she was futzing around.

I don't think a SAHP should be connected at the hip and I think that independent time is valuable but the reality is she was not spending more 1-1 time with her child than I was.

I think you are mistaken. There's just simply not a chance that you spend more 1-1 time with kids than a SAHP unless the SAHP is outsourcing a ton of childcare. Your kids never play in the basement or nap or watch TV when you're with them? And how much time during the day are the SAHP neighbor's kids doing that? 2 hrs out of a 8+ hour work day...your math isn't mathing.

And there’s the rub. I think because she is home so much she doesn’t even think about doing things with her kids.

I think because I’m not home all day as soon as I get home I want to get outside I take them to the park, Or we go for a hike, We hit a museum, Or walk around the zoo.

in fact when I get home from work the neighbor whose H was sick and she asked me to watch her kids, I immediately pick them up and take them with me to do these things.

The woman who is complaining that she wasn’t chosen to be the caregiver is like sure just send them to my house. They can watch TV or play in the yard while I make dinner or entertain my child in the basement.

Assuming this is all true, your neighbor is n=1. Your neighbor is not representative of the vast majority of SAHP. Nor does your post, however unnecessarily involved, get at the original question of whether it was ok for someone to say they didn’t want their kids raised by strangers.

You go hiking, biking, your kids tube on the lake behind your house every afternoon at 2 pm while you drive the boat before going to the Metropolitan Museum of Art and discuss El Greco for six hours. We get it. You’re amazing! Tahoe by day, NYC by afternoon. You never go to Costco. You work 190 hours per week at work and get out by 3 pm to pick up your kid from daycare and play laser tag before you coach soccer and you make $280K!

Pretty much except I work 40 hours and my H the same.

It can work if you want it to.

But if you want to SAH and have a absent h and that works for you because he needs to work 190 hours a week to pick up your slack go for it just stop being so defensive about how other families have figured out how to work and be there for their kids.

DP here. Except the problem with your argument is that lots of families with a SAHM have a Dad who is not absent at all, works a 35 hour week and has tons of flexibility to be at events, coach teams, etc. I know many families like this, including ours.

Glad they figured it out too. They tend to be absent from these discussions because there’s a lot of … its impossible to work my H is big law or surgeon and I could only find hubs that had me out of the house from 6-6.

But I agree the majority of families working or with a SAHP don’t have these crazy situations where one or the other parent isn’t home most of the time.

The idea kids are in daycare 8 or 10 or 12 hours are just horror stories made up to justify not working. Most kids have about 3-4 waking hours in other people’s care until they go to school then it’s about 7 hours whether you work or not, unless you homeschool …Except teen athletes they are gone all day.

So many families have figured it out but I guess someone has to marry surgeons and big law partners. Actually they usually have a few wives throughout their life.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Mom of two teens here with two observations:

1) my kids friends are all really great, smart, well mannered, kind kids. I couldn’t tell you which ones had SAHMs and which ones had WOHMs if I didn’t know their parents (I know many but not all and it’s a mix of both working and non working parents - they all raised awesome kids).


2) this concept of raising your own children is a relatively new phenomenon. Ever heard of the term “it takes a village”? I also have seen some studies that say that working parents now spend significantly more time with their children than stay at home moms did 20-30 years ago. Probably because there isn’t really a village anymore.

Interesting how everyone is just passing by and ignoring this post. As a mom of older ES kids, I agree - all of my children's friends are wonderful kids. Some of them have SAHMs, some of them have two working parents. They're all great kids. If it makes you ladies feel better to put down working moms and tell us we're ruining our children forever, then fine, go ahead, but my kids have turned out great so far, even with a mom who sent them to daycare.

I agree that there are great kids of working parents and great kids of stay at home parents. But the topic isn't about outcomes/how the kids turn out in the end as a result of who raises them. The topic is about who IS actually raising the kids and, although I'd never say this to anyone and think it's totally rude to do so, you can't really argue that parents who both work and whose kids either go to daycare or have a nanny or a grandparent or whoever take care of them are being 100% raised by their parents. They hardly even see their parents. They spend most of their time w/ someone other than their parents. It's just not possible that their parents are the main ones raising them.

Except every parent with kids in school or preschool do this and you are saying only the SAH person is raising their Child, even though the working parent sees the child just as much.

This thread is largely about kids who are not yet school age.

Though also lots of preschools are not full time so are not meant to be full time childcare -- my child attended a half day preschool starting at age 2.5 which was great and helped her get ready for kindergarten. It was 3 hours a day.

And even once you have school age kids... my kid is off today and tomorrow and monday. He's been sick 4 days in the last month due to RSV and a bad cold going around his school. 10 weeks off in summer. Winter break (2 weeks) and spring break (1 week). Random PD days throughout the year. And the kicker -- school ends at 2:30pm.

Even once kids are in school SAHP see their kids a lot more than full time working parents. And I say that as a working parent. You can't deny facts.

He was in school for 3 hours (ours was 4) then he naps for 2 hours in the afternoon, that is 5 of the 8 hours for you (6for me).

So 3 hours (2for me) difference.

The idea is that working moms and sahms have similar hours with their kids is just patently absurd.

It seems absurd until you actually write the hours down and then you realize that the minuscule amount of hours that a SAHP gets with their child versus a working parent is not big enough to justify it as a reason to stay home.

I guess if you cherry pick a SAHP with a very specific schedule this is true? And then a working parent with a very specific schedule? But you are not talking about most people on either side of that equation. You're talking about very unique situations.

Here was my schedule as a SAHP:

6am: up with baby and a few minutes with DH before he left for work at 6:45. If I was lucky I might squeeze a shower in then while he ate breakfast with the baby but usually there was not time because I'd be nursing or DH wouldn't have time to sit that long without missing his train.

7am-8am: toddler up and then I'd feed the toddler while the baby either played or hung out in the carrier. Then we'd all play together on the floor until baby started to get tired.

8am-8:30am: put baby down for a nap while toddler (hopefully) played on her own in her bedroom.

8:30-10am: I'd get the toddler ready for the day and then have her come hang out in my room while I got ready for the day (if I still had to shower she'd have to play on the floor next to the bathroom because she was not old enough to be unattended -- this went okay about 60% of the time). Then I'd clean up the kitchen and maybe take a 10-15 minute break for myself (sometimes using a short video to entertain toddler) and then we'd read books and play until the baby woke up.

10am-12:30pm: This was our outdoors window. Baby would be dressed and fed as soon as she woke up and then we'd be out the door (bag packed during baby's nap) and to the park and playground or the library or whatever. Baby in carrier and toddler in stroller generally but as toddler got older she'd walk more so we'd go slower. Lots of talking to them about what we see and greeting neighbors and answering questions. Sometimes we'd meet other kids and their caregivers. If I was lucky I might get 15-30 minutes at the playground to read if toddler was playing well with another kid and baby was content to sit or snuggle. Usually not.

12:30-1:30pm: Back home for lunch and then dual naps. This was the trickiest part of the day. Kids would not go down at the same time. Usually I'd put the baby down first and then the toddler but if either fought the nap this was hard. If one goes down much later than the other you lose your child-free window. I got it down to a science but then your kids get older and stuff changes. Oh well.

1:30-3pm: Naptime. If baby had a bad night I might also nap during this time but usually it was time to clean up lunch dishes and do some dinner prep. Usually also laundry (I tried to just have laundry going all the time so when I got a break I could fold). I'll note here that we did not have housecleaners or any outsourced help during this time. So I was also picking up toys and vacuuming and whatever to try and save time on the weekends when I deepcleaned. This was also when I'd sit down at my computer and do stuff like research preschools or plan a birthday party or text other parents for playdates or whatever. Call to check on my parents.

3pm-6pm: The hardest part of the day. Kids wake up and then I'd try to get us outside again. Often this would be an errand combined with a playground stop because I'd often need a grocery run or have to drop off an Amazon return or whatever. Hopefully they napped well and were happy. It was a juggle. I tried to be home by 5 and then I'd get dinner ready for them. Toddler might get a few episodes of Bluey (30 minutes max). Then more playing and hang out time.

6-7pm: DH home. I get a break in theory but usually this just means I finished making whatever he and I were eating (variation of toddler's meal but usually a bit more exciting). Shower if it never happened earlier in the day. If very lucky squeeze in a 20 minute workout first but let's get real.

7-7:30pm: Bedtime for kids. I'd nurse the baby while DH read to the toddler and then he'd rock the baby while I tucked the toddler in.

Here is my schedule as a working mom:

morning routine from 6-8am
drop kids off
work 8:30am-5:30pm
pick kids up
Then the 6-8pm routine was same as when I was a SAHP minus the nursing

So uh no -- I spent a lot more time with my kids as a SAHP than I now do as a working mom. They did not get much if any screentime and usually I was doing stuff *for them* if they did get some. They did not spend half the day asleep. By the time my oldest started preschool the younger was a toddler and was down to one nap anyway. I was spending 10 hours a day with them with pretty limited breaks.

This is similar to our schedule except my H isn’t absent so he is there in the am.

Obviously not counting nap time.

Yes my kids are in “other care” for 3 hours.

Then I’m home.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:As a reason for why one spouse chose not to work or works from home/at a flexible part time job? Or is this an acceptable turn of phrase?

It's an absolutely valid statement. Many of my friends didn't want their children to be raised by strangers, some had the privilege to do it themselves or get family to support while others had to send them to daycare or leave them with nannies.

It might be shocking to the SAHP crew, but have you ever considered it’s actually developmentally superior for a few hours of the day for the child not to be attached to the parent at the hip?

SAH doesn't mean the kid is attached at the hip, just like going to child care doesn't mean neglect.

I agree, which is why I don't think SAHP spend that much 1-1 time with kids, definitely not more than working parents.

I'mthe pp you quoted. I've done both, and disagree. I definitely spent more time with ds as a SAHP. Just the every day stuff like having lunch together, even running errands. We were still together and interacting. Those things couldn't happen when I was working. Although there was my SIL. A SAHP who had little to do with her kids. At 3 & 4, they generally got up on their own. Dry cereal and a sippy cup of milk was breakfast while they watched TV and SIL slept. The whole day was them entertaining themselves.

Not really … your kids went to preschool right?

You weren't interacting 7 hours a day.

NP. I was a SAHM when my kids were in preschool. My kids went to preschool for 3 hours a day 4 days a week. I was with them the rest of the day. My husband was gone for about 9 hours a day, 5 days a week. So I spent about 33 more hours with my kids per week than my husband did. No one said they interacted with their kids 7 hours a day. But don't try to argue that SAHPs don't spend that much more time with their kids than working parents. OF COURSE they do.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:As a reason for why one spouse chose not to work or works from home/at a flexible part time job? Or is this an acceptable turn of phrase?

It's an absolutely valid statement. Many of my friends didn't want their children to be raised by strangers, some had the privilege to do it themselves or get family to support while others had to send them to daycare or leave them with nannies.

It might be shocking to the SAHP crew, but have you ever considered it’s actually developmentally superior for a few hours of the day for the child not to be attached to the parent at the hip?

SAH doesn't mean the kid is attached at the hip, just like going to child care doesn't mean neglect.

I agree, which is why I don't think SAHP spend that much 1-1 time with kids, definitely not more than working parents.

I'mthe pp you quoted. I've done both, and disagree. I definitely spent more time with ds as a SAHP. Just the every day stuff like having lunch together, even running errands. We were still together and interacting. Those things couldn't happen when I was working. Although there was my SIL. A SAHP who had little to do with her kids. At 3 & 4, they generally got up on their own. Dry cereal and a sippy cup of milk was breakfast while they watched TV and SIL slept. The whole day was them entertaining themselves.

Not really … your kids went to preschool right?

You weren't interacting 7 hours a day.

I’m not the pp but I absolutely interacted with my child 7 hours per day. I have 3 kids. My older two went to daycare/extended care when I worked. I stopped working when I had my third child. You spend more time with your child when you don’t work. I’m not sure what you are arguing. Not every hour is quality time but you spend more time. You are embarrassing yourself.

I spend 6 hours with my children and work so I'm not sure why you need to prove you spend more time with your kids to justify staying home. You stay home, own it, don't make up some crazy justification and my H spends just as much time so that is 12 hours of parental time with our kids.

How about your H how much time does he spend with the kids a day?

NP you're not very bright, are you? She's not saying she ONLY spends 7 hours a day with her kids. She's saying she spends 7 hours a day with her kids while her spouse is working/while she would be working if she had a job so 7 hours MORE than a working parent would not 7 hours period. It's not like a SAHP's day with their kids ends when the working day ends.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I had incredible working parents who had to work long hours and had long commutes. Of course they shaped me and my opinions and made decisions for me. We are extremely close and I’m grateful to them every day.

But the endless hours being herded in daycare, aftercare and city-run summer camps sure shaped my nervous system, my self of self-worth and my general comfort throughout childhood. Everything was controlled, confining and just so many people in my life, handling me, exposing me to all their own stresses even if they were good people. I might feel differently if I’d had a nanny.

My DH was raised by a rural sahm. He had incredible autonomy and consistency and became master of his own small universe. A kid in daycare is master of nothing.

Today we are similarly successful but he is much more resilient and self-assured. I work very part-time to try and give our kids some of what he had. Debating the semantics of who raises who distracts from the realities of American childcare

My mom was a SAHM, I can't remember every really interacting with her. She never read me a book, hugged me, told me I was good at something, to a park or anything really.

It was wake up, get cereal, go outside and don't bother me until dinner.

After dinner it was TV upstairs without her and to bed.

My dad coached my team, watched shows with me (MASH/All in the Family/etc), went to all my sports games.

It would have been nice to have some structure, some interaction, some education during those years, anything. I would have much preferred to be in a day care.

Oddly once I grew up my mom had an in home daycare and she read to them, took them to the pool, took them to the library, took them to the park... maybe she took a class or something to become a day care provider. IDK. It was much better than my upbringing.

You just got unlucky with a bad SAHM. That doesn't mean having a SAHP in general is bad.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:As a reason for why one spouse chose not to work or works from home/at a flexible part time job? Or is this an acceptable turn of phrase?

It's an absolutely valid statement. Many of my friends didn't want their children to be raised by strangers, some had the privilege to do it themselves or get family to support while others had to send them to daycare or leave them with nannies.

It might be shocking to the SAHP crew, but have you ever considered it’s actually developmentally superior for a few hours of the day for the child not to be attached to the parent at the hip?

SAH doesn't mean the kid is attached at the hip, just like going to child care doesn't mean neglect.

I agree, which is why I don't think SAHP spend that much 1-1 time with kids, definitely not more than working parents.

I'mthe pp you quoted. I've done both, and disagree. I definitely spent more time with ds as a SAHP. Just the every day stuff like having lunch together, even running errands. We were still together and interacting. Those things couldn't happen when I was working. Although there was my SIL. A SAHP who had little to do with her kids. At 3 & 4, they generally got up on their own. Dry cereal and a sippy cup of milk was breakfast while they watched TV and SIL slept. The whole day was them entertaining themselves.

Not really … your kids went to preschool right?

You weren't interacting 7 hours a day.

NP. I was a SAHM when my kids were in preschool. My kids went to preschool for 3 hours a day 4 days a week. I was with them the rest of the day. My husband was gone for about 9 hours a day, 5 days a week. So I spent about 33 more hours with my kids per week than my husband did. No one said they interacted with their kids 7 hours a day. But don't try to argue that SAHPs don't spend that much more time with their kids than working parents. OF COURSE they do.

Well my kids went to preschool 4 hours a day, plus an afternoon nap, plus my H was home with them in the am…, so no your kids did not spent a lot more time with you than they spent with us.

So H drop off at 9
9-1 preschool
1-1:30 in other care 2x a week (I did pu other 3)
Nap 1:30-3
Other care 3-4… which was a playdate 2x a week.

That <5 hour difference

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:As a reason for why one spouse chose not to work or works from home/at a flexible part time job? Or is this an acceptable turn of phrase?

It's an absolutely valid statement. Many of my friends didn't want their children to be raised by strangers, some had the privilege to do it themselves or get family to support while others had to send them to daycare or leave them with nannies.

It might be shocking to the SAHP crew, but have you ever considered it’s actually developmentally superior for a few hours of the day for the child not to be attached to the parent at the hip?

SAH doesn't mean the kid is attached at the hip, just like going to child care doesn't mean neglect.

I agree, which is why I don't think SAHP spend that much 1-1 time with kids, definitely not more than working parents.

I'mthe pp you quoted. I've done both, and disagree. I definitely spent more time with ds as a SAHP. Just the every day stuff like having lunch together, even running errands. We were still together and interacting. Those things couldn't happen when I was working. Although there was my SIL. A SAHP who had little to do with her kids. At 3 & 4, they generally got up on their own. Dry cereal and a sippy cup of milk was breakfast while they watched TV and SIL slept. The whole day was them entertaining themselves.

Not really … your kids went to preschool right?

You weren't interacting 7 hours a day.

I’m not the pp but I absolutely interacted with my child 7 hours per day. I have 3 kids. My older two went to daycare/extended care when I worked. I stopped working when I had my third child. You spend more time with your child when you don’t work. I’m not sure what you are arguing. Not every hour is quality time but you spend more time. You are embarrassing yourself.

I spend 6 hours with my children and work so I'm not sure why you need to prove you spend more time with your kids to justify staying home. You stay home, own it, don't make up some crazy justification and my H spends just as much time so that is 12 hours of parental time with our kids.

How about your H how much time does he spend with the kids a day?

I’m not proving anything. I just joined the thread and haven’t read most of the responses. I was just commenting that you spend more time with your child when you are a sahm. The pp sounds like a moron trying to prove otherwise. It doesn’t make her a better or worse mom but it was just a bad point.

When I was a work from home PT parent, I felt it was the worst of both worlds. I often had to log in at night when kids went to bed. I had a FT nanny and sent older kid to preschool.

It's not a bad point when it is true and I said above in the thread, my neighbor's H was dying and she made me the emergency person for her kids when she was caring for him so much and could give nothing to her kids.

Another neighbor (SAHM) said that's silly you should choose me, I'm home and I was like I spend more time with my kids than you do... we did the math, I was right. I was more engaged and spent more time with my kids, hence her kids.

Now her rooms were always freshly painted and she always had the perfect pillows for the perfect season and she worked out and had a nice yard and her closets were to die for... but I spent more time engaging with kids.

Kids nap, kids go to school, kids go to preschool... you can easily be home with them a ton if you prioritize it.

Not sure if you realize this or not but your SAHM neighbor is not representative of all SAHMs. I spend way more time with my kids as a SAHM than as a working mom. I have done both. You sound very insecure to keep claiming that you spend as much or more time w/ your kids as SAHPs. It is simply not true for vast majority.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I had incredible working parents who had to work long hours and had long commutes. Of course they shaped me and my opinions and made decisions for me. We are extremely close and I’m grateful to them every day.

But the endless hours being herded in daycare, aftercare and city-run summer camps sure shaped my nervous system, my self of self-worth and my general comfort throughout childhood. Everything was controlled, confining and just so many people in my life, handling me, exposing me to all their own stresses even if they were good people. I might feel differently if I’d had a nanny.

My DH was raised by a rural sahm. He had incredible autonomy and consistency and became master of his own small universe. A kid in daycare is master of nothing.

Today we are similarly successful but he is much more resilient and self-assured. I work very part-time to try and give our kids some of what he had. Debating the semantics of who raises who distracts from the realities of American childcare

My mom was a SAHM, I can't remember every really interacting with her. She never read me a book, hugged me, told me I was good at something, to a park or anything really.

It was wake up, get cereal, go outside and don't bother me until dinner.

After dinner it was TV upstairs without her and to bed.

My dad coached my team, watched shows with me (MASH/All in the Family/etc), went to all my sports games.

It would have been nice to have some structure, some interaction, some education during those years, anything. I would have much preferred to be in a day care.

Oddly once I grew up my mom had an in home daycare and she read to them, took them to the pool, took them to the library, took them to the park... maybe she took a class or something to become a day care provider. IDK. It was much better than my upbringing.

You just got unlucky with a bad SAHM. That doesn't mean having a SAHP in general is bad.

There are a ton of those SAHM’s. Nobody said it was generally bad it’s just not always good.

Let’s not pretend every.single.one are home but could be at a job, some aren’t employable.

28% report having depression

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Children who spent a lot of time in daycare as babies and toddlers have more behavior problems in school than children who were cared for by a family member or a nanny. It's important for babies to form attachments to their caregivers, which doesn't happen in daycares because of all the other kids around and the staff turnover. I feel bad for people who can't afford to stay home or hire a nanny or have grandma babysit all day, but I keep it to myself.

Our K-1 grade teacher said the kids who never went to daycare or preschool were such a nightmare to adjust to going to school.

They are clingy and insecure and unable to get along with others.

This isn't true at all. Just one of those old wives tales that circulates regulalry. Kind of like everyone knowing twins named Orangello and Lemongello

DP, a current third grade teacher told me this personally. It used to be irrelevant when Kindergarten was more like pre-K, but now the differences are stark especially in more affluent areas where kids who were in school had a ton of enrichment.

Not true. Kids with SAHMs aren't sitting in dark basements with no enrichment or social interaction. It isn't you go to school and have enrichment and social interaction or you are at home with a caregiver / parent and have no enrichment / social activity. That is the reality.

I have no particular dog in this fight but most SAHPs don’t have the resources the elite pre-ks do for enrichment. If you hire a mandarin speaker for immersion and your kids ride your horses and swim at your Olympic aquatic facility then this comment doesn’t apply to you.

Preschoolers don't need Mandarin lessons or horse riding to have enrichment and social interaction. It is absolutely ridiculous to claim that this is the path to enrichment and social interaction. Most people, SAHP or working parents, don't have resources for "elite" preKs and that's OK because kids don't need that anyway. The regular co-op preschool or church/JCC preschool works just fine.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a reason for why one spouse chose not to work or works from home/at a flexible part time job? Or is this an acceptable turn of phrase?

It's an absolutely valid statement. Many of my friends didn't want their children to be raised by strangers, some had the privilege to do it themselves or get family to support while others had to send them to daycare or leave them with nannies.

It might be shocking to the SAHP crew, but have you ever considered it’s actually developmentally superior for a few hours of the day for the child not to be attached to the parent at the hip?

SAH doesn't mean the kid is attached at the hip, just like going to child care doesn't mean neglect.

I agree, which is why I don't think SAHP spend that much 1-1 time with kids, definitely not more than working parents.

I'mthe pp you quoted. I've done both, and disagree. I definitely spent more time with ds as a SAHP. Just the every day stuff like having lunch together, even running errands. We were still together and interacting. Those things couldn't happen when I was working. Although there was my SIL. A SAHP who had little to do with her kids. At 3 & 4, they generally got up on their own. Dry cereal and a sippy cup of milk was breakfast while they watched TV and SIL slept. The whole day was them entertaining themselves.

Not really … your kids went to preschool right?

You weren't interacting 7 hours a day.

I’m not the pp but I absolutely interacted with my child 7 hours per day. I have 3 kids. My older two went to daycare/extended care when I worked. I stopped working when I had my third child. You spend more time with your child when you don’t work. I’m not sure what you are arguing. Not every hour is quality time but you spend more time. You are embarrassing yourself.

I spend 6 hours with my children and work so I'm not sure why you need to prove you spend more time with your kids to justify staying home. You stay home, own it, don't make up some crazy justification and my H spends just as much time so that is 12 hours of parental time with our kids.

How about your H how much time does he spend with the kids a day?

I’m not proving anything. I just joined the thread and haven’t read most of the responses. I was just commenting that you spend more time with your child when you are a sahm. The pp sounds like a moron trying to prove otherwise. It doesn’t make her a better or worse mom but it was just a bad point.

When I was a work from home PT parent, I felt it was the worst of both worlds. I often had to log in at night when kids went to bed. I had a FT nanny and sent older kid to preschool.

It's not a bad point when it is true and I said above in the thread, my neighbor's H was dying and she made me the emergency person for her kids when she was caring for him so much and could give nothing to her kids.

Another neighbor (SAHM) said that's silly you should choose me, I'm home and I was like I spend more time with my kids than you do... we did the math, I was right. I was more engaged and spent more time with my kids, hence her kids.

Now her rooms were always freshly painted and she always had the perfect pillows for the perfect season and she worked out and had a nice yard and her closets were to die for... but I spent more time engaging with kids.

Kids nap, kids go to school, kids go to preschool... you can easily be home with them a ton if you prioritize it.

Not sure if you realize this or not but your SAHM neighbor is not representative of all SAHMs. I spend way more time with my kids as a SAHM than as a working mom. I have done both. You sound very insecure to keep claiming that you spend as much or more time w/ your kids as SAHPs. It is simply not true for vast majority.

I didn’t say every working mom does, surgeons clearly don’t.

Also not all SAHP are great.

I’m saying that it wasn’t true for my family that they were in other care for more than 3-4 hours/Day at the most their whole lives not counting schools.

This horror story that kids are in day care 10 hours is not representative of my life.

The question is “was I offended…..”

My answer is no because my kids are with a parent just as much time as your kids and have the benefit of an involved father.

That’s what I think and did say it once when asked to care for my neighbors kids when her H was sick.

If that’s not your situation move on why do you care to invalidate how we both parented just because you had to work a ton and your H wasn’t there to help.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:As a reason for why one spouse chose not to work or works from home/at a flexible part time job? Or is this an acceptable turn of phrase?

It's an absolutely valid statement. Many of my friends didn't want their children to be raised by strangers, some had the privilege to do it themselves or get family to support while others had to send them to daycare or leave them with nannies.

It might be shocking to the SAHP crew, but have you ever considered it’s actually developmentally superior for a few hours of the day for the child not to be attached to the parent at the hip?

SAH doesn't mean the kid is attached at the hip, just like going to child care doesn't mean neglect.

I agree, which is why I don't think SAHP spend that much 1-1 time with kids, definitely not more than working parents.

I'mthe pp you quoted. I've done both, and disagree. I definitely spent more time with ds as a SAHP. Just the every day stuff like having lunch together, even running errands. We were still together and interacting. Those things couldn't happen when I was working. Although there was my SIL. A SAHP who had little to do with her kids. At 3 & 4, they generally got up on their own. Dry cereal and a sippy cup of milk was breakfast while they watched TV and SIL slept. The whole day was them entertaining themselves.

Not really … your kids went to preschool right?

You weren't interacting 7 hours a day.

NP. I was a SAHM when my kids were in preschool. My kids went to preschool for 3 hours a day 4 days a week. I was with them the rest of the day. My husband was gone for about 9 hours a day, 5 days a week. So I spent about 33 more hours with my kids per week than my husband did. No one said they interacted with their kids 7 hours a day. But don't try to argue that SAHPs don't spend that much more time with their kids than working parents. OF COURSE they do.

Well my kids went to preschool 4 hours a day, plus an afternoon nap, plus my H was home with them in the am…, so no your kids did not spent a lot more time with you than they spent with us.

So H drop off at 9
9-1 preschool
1-1:30 in other care 2x a week (I did pu other 3)
Nap 1:30-3
Other care 3-4… which was a playdate 2x a week.

That <5 hour difference

Working mom and WTF id other care after 4 hour preschool? This schedule is bizarre and unnecessary and probably specific to a 12 month period. Most three year olds don’t take a 90 minute nap. You just seem really cheap and low achieving. No person with a demanding high paying job is splitting hairs about childcare like this. It’s so bizarre it’s either made up or you’re really poor. My husband and I make over $950K and no way we would put ourselves through this patchwork childcare he$&scape. And 10 hours of childcare is normal. Maybe none of you have real jobs with real commutes but most people do and no one is ogling 35 hours a week with a commute and getting out at 1 pm everyday. Are you grad students?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Children who spent a lot of time in daycare as babies and toddlers have more behavior problems in school than children who were cared for by a family member or a nanny. It's important for babies to form attachments to their caregivers, which doesn't happen in daycares because of all the other kids around and the staff turnover. I feel bad for people who can't afford to stay home or hire a nanny or have grandma babysit all day, but I keep it to myself.

Our K-1 grade teacher said the kids who never went to daycare or preschool were such a nightmare to adjust to going to school.

They are clingy and insecure and unable to get along with others.

This isn't true at all. Just one of those old wives tales that circulates regulalry. Kind of like everyone knowing twins named Orangello and Lemongello

DP, a current third grade teacher told me this personally. It used to be irrelevant when Kindergarten was more like pre-K, but now the differences are stark especially in more affluent areas where kids who were in school had a ton of enrichment.

Not true. Kids with SAHMs aren't sitting in dark basements with no enrichment or social interaction. It isn't you go to school and have enrichment and social interaction or you are at home with a caregiver / parent and have no enrichment / social activity. That is the reality.

I have no particular dog in this fight but most SAHPs don’t have the resources the elite pre-ks do for enrichment. If you hire a mandarin speaker for immersion and your kids ride your horses and swim at your Olympic aquatic facility then this comment doesn’t apply to you.

Preschoolers don't need Mandarin lessons or horse riding to have enrichment and social interaction. It is absolutely ridiculous to claim that this is the path to enrichment and social interaction. Most people, SAHP or working parents, don't have resources for "elite" preKs and that's OK because kids don't need that anyway. The regular co-op preschool or church/JCC preschool works just fine.

The point he it’s better than nothing and kids no longer show up to K to learn to play with others, they show up to K ready to read. They better have gone to pre-k even at the JCC (which is btw pretty elite here) and be ready to hit the ground running instead of traumatize by being away from mommy for the 1st time.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:As a reason for why one spouse chose not to work or works from home/at a flexible part time job? Or is this an acceptable turn of phrase?

It's an absolutely valid statement. Many of my friends didn't want their children to be raised by strangers, some had the privilege to do it themselves or get family to support while others had to send them to daycare or leave them with nannies.

It might be shocking to the SAHP crew, but have you ever considered it’s actually developmentally superior for a few hours of the day for the child not to be attached to the parent at the hip?

SAH doesn't mean the kid is attached at the hip, just like going to child care doesn't mean neglect.

I agree, which is why I don't think SAHP spend that much 1-1 time with kids, definitely not more than working parents.

I'mthe pp you quoted. I've done both, and disagree. I definitely spent more time with ds as a SAHP. Just the every day stuff like having lunch together, even running errands. We were still together and interacting. Those things couldn't happen when I was working. Although there was my SIL. A SAHP who had little to do with her kids. At 3 & 4, they generally got up on their own. Dry cereal and a sippy cup of milk was breakfast while they watched TV and SIL slept. The whole day was them entertaining themselves.

Not really … your kids went to preschool right?

You weren't interacting 7 hours a day.

NP. I was a SAHM when my kids were in preschool. My kids went to preschool for 3 hours a day 4 days a week. I was with them the rest of the day. My husband was gone for about 9 hours a day, 5 days a week. So I spent about 33 more hours with my kids per week than my husband did. No one said they interacted with their kids 7 hours a day. But don't try to argue that SAHPs don't spend that much more time with their kids than working parents. OF COURSE they do.

Well my kids went to preschool 4 hours a day, plus an afternoon nap, plus my H was home with them in the am…, so no your kids did not spent a lot more time with you than they spent with us.

So H drop off at 9
9-1 preschool
1-1:30 in other care 2x a week (I did pu other 3)
Nap 1:30-3
Other care 3-4… which was a playdate 2x a week.

That <5 hour difference

Working mom and WTF id other care after 4 hour preschool? This schedule is bizarre and unnecessary and probably specific to a 12 month period. Most three year olds don’t take a 90 minute nap. You just seem really cheap and low achieving. No person with a demanding high paying job is splitting hairs about childcare like this. It’s so bizarre it’s either made up or you’re really poor. My husband and I make over $950K and no way we would put ourselves through this patchwork childcare he$&scape. And 10 hours of childcare is normal. Maybe none of you have real jobs with real commutes but most people do and no one is ogling 35 hours a week with a commute and getting out at 1 pm everyday. Are you grad students?

Other care is care by someone other than a parent.

It was actually my neighbor picking up my child feeding them lunch two days a week and putting them down for a nap and then having a play date for an hour and then I pick them up.

I had more flexible schedule so I did the same for them three days a week.

You sound angry but it’s probably because you never get a break from your 24x7 parenting and your absent H.

Our private K did 1 hour nap time too, my low achieving child did great at his T 20 college and grad school.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I have childfree, sahm and wohm friends. If we say, "I did x because I didn't want Y," we assume it is a personal, individual decision and not meant to cast judgement on anyone who did Y who can hear the statement. It's not always about you, people.

I grow my hair long because I don’t want to look like a bull dike.

Does that working in your scenario.

DP but actually yes. This is actually a perfect example. Imagine we’re friends and we’re talking and you have a pixie haircut and my hair is long. And you ask me why I don’t chop it off like yours. See, I might think your haircut looks great on YOU, and maybe you look fabulous like Halle Berry, or Anne Hathaway. But I don’t think *I* can pull off short hair - unless my hair is long I “look like a bull dike”.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Mom of two teens here with two observations:

1) my kids friends are all really great, smart, well mannered, kind kids. I couldn’t tell you which ones had SAHMs and which ones had WOHMs if I didn’t know their parents (I know many but not all and it’s a mix of both working and non working parents - they all raised awesome kids).


2) this concept of raising your own children is a relatively new phenomenon. Ever heard of the term “it takes a village”? I also have seen some studies that say that working parents now spend significantly more time with their children than stay at home moms did 20-30 years ago. Probably because there isn’t really a village anymore.

Interesting how everyone is just passing by and ignoring this post. As a mom of older ES kids, I agree - all of my children's friends are wonderful kids. Some of them have SAHMs, some of them have two working parents. They're all great kids. If it makes you ladies feel better to put down working moms and tell us we're ruining our children forever, then fine, go ahead, but my kids have turned out great so far, even with a mom who sent them to daycare.

I agree that there are great kids of working parents and great kids of stay at home parents. But the topic isn't about outcomes/how the kids turn out in the end as a result of who raises them. The topic is about who IS actually raising the kids and, although I'd never say this to anyone and think it's totally rude to do so, you can't really argue that parents who both work and whose kids either go to daycare or have a nanny or a grandparent or whoever take care of them are being 100% raised by their parents. They hardly even see their parents. They spend most of their time w/ someone other than their parents. It's just not possible that their parents are the main ones raising them.

Except every parent with kids in school or preschool do this and you are saying only the SAH person is raising their Child, even though the working parent sees the child just as much.

DP but no, just no. SAHPs do see their school age kids more than working parents do, unless the working parent only works part time. My 2 elementary school kids are in school 6 hours a day. My husband works 9 hours a day and commutes to/from work 30 minutes each way so he is gone 10 hours a day. I'm a SAHM so I am with my kids 4 hours a day more than my husband is and it would be similar if I was still working. When my kids were in preschool they only went 3 hours a day soI was spending 7 more hours per day with them then. I think anyone claiming working parents spend as much time w/ kids as SAHPs has never been a SAHP and/or can't do basic math and/or is lying to themselves about the amount of time spent. I have been a SAHP and a working parent. It makes zero sense to claim you spend the same amount of time w/ your kids. Not a value judgement but you absolutely don't spend as much time w/ them as a SAHP does.