Are you offended when someone says they “didnt want someone else to raise my kids”?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is it rude to say I didn't want to be a SAHP because I wanted my kids to be raise in a stimulating environment instead of spending their days watching tv and running errands to Costco.

You're just talking about how YOU would be as a SAHP, not how all or most SAHPs are. Maybe your best if you were to SAH would be to turn on TV and take kids to Costco but that certainly doesn't describe the SAHPs I know.

No, if I were SAHP, I’d be at museums and parks and hiking. BUT I Don’t need to stay at home to do that. I have a very flexible schedule and I get home at four and we go to the park and we hike and we go to the museums and we go to the zoo.

I’m talking about all the moms in my book club who were like oh my God I ran so many errands this week. I had to go to Costco three times and then I went to Michael’s and I had to go to three stores before I found the correct fall pillows that I love.

So… do you just never run errands? You don’t have to grocery shop or get the oil changed? You never mow the lawn or do the laundry, either, or scrub the floors, because you’re too busy “working” or taking Larlo to the yoga retreat in the mountains? Do fairies, birds, and mice keep your home running?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:As a reason for why one spouse chose not to work or works from home/at a flexible part time job? Or is this an acceptable turn of phrase?

It's an absolutely valid statement. Many of my friends didn't want their children to be raised by strangers, some had the privilege to do it themselves or get family to support while others had to send them to daycare or leave them with nannies.

It might be shocking to the SAHP crew, but have you ever considered it’s actually developmentally superior for a few hours of the day for the child not to be attached to the parent at the hip?

SAH doesn't mean the kid is attached at the hip, just like going to child care doesn't mean neglect.

I agree, which is why I don't think SAHP spend that much 1-1 time with kids, definitely not more than working parents.

Of course SAHPs spend more 1-1 time with their kids than working parents. How would someone who isn't with their kids 40+ hours a week spend the same amount of time with their kids as someone who is staying home with their kids and not working?

Because of those 40 hours 20 are sleeping, of the other 5 are with the dad who does morning routine. So that is 15 hours a week, 3 hours a day .

NBD.

?? my kids don't nap anymore so no they're not sleeping 20 hours of the 40 hour work week.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is it rude to say I didn't want to be a SAHP because I wanted my kids to be raise in a stimulating environment instead of spending their days watching tv and running errands to Costco.

You're just talking about how YOU would be as a SAHP, not how all or most SAHPs are. Maybe your best if you were to SAH would be to turn on TV and take kids to Costco but that certainly doesn't describe the SAHPs I know.

No, if I were SAHP, I’d be at museums and parks and hiking. BUT I Don’t need to stay at home to do that. I have a very flexible schedule and I get home at four and we go to the park and we hike and we go to the museums and we go to the zoo.

I’m talking about all the moms in my book club who were like oh my God I ran so many errands this week. I had to go to Costco three times and then I went to Michael’s and I had to go to three stores before I found the correct fall pillows that I love.

OK. So you're another poster who believes that your sample size of a few women in your book club is representative of all SAHPs. I'm a SAHP and my kids hardly ever go on errands with me (I run errands when they're at school) and they watch 30 mins of screens per day. But go ahead and think whatever you want about what all SAHMs apparently do or don't do.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have childfree, sahm and wohm friends. If we say, "I did x because I didn't want Y," we assume it is a personal, individual decision and not meant to cast judgement on anyone who did Y who can hear the statement. It's not always about you, people.

I grow my hair long because I don’t want to look like a bull dike.

Does that working in your scenario.

DP but actually yes. This is actually a perfect example. Imagine we’re friends and we’re talking and you have a pixie haircut and my hair is long. And you ask me why I don’t chop it off like yours. See, I might think your haircut looks great on YOU, and maybe you look fabulous like Halle Berry, or Anne Hathaway. But I don’t think *I* can pull off short hair - unless my hair is long I “look like a bull dike”.

See you had to rearrange the words and add something for it to not sound rude.

If your friend said why don’t you cut your hair and you answered because I don’t wanna look like a bull Dyke that would be rude.

But you had a rearranged the words you had to say oh I wouldn’t look as good as you would so I’m not gonna cut it. I might look like a bull dike.

Just like I stay at her, mom could rearrange the words and say oh I just decided to stay home because I can’t really manage working and taking care of the kids. It’s exhausting.

See the difference.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Children who spent a lot of time in daycare as babies and toddlers have more behavior problems in school than children who were cared for by a family member or a nanny. It's important for babies to form attachments to their caregivers, which doesn't happen in daycares because of all the other kids around and the staff turnover. I feel bad for people who can't afford to stay home or hire a nanny or have grandma babysit all day, but I keep it to myself.

Our K-1 grade teacher said the kids who never went to daycare or preschool were such a nightmare to adjust to going to school.

They are clingy and insecure and unable to get along with others.

This isn't true at all. Just one of those old wives tales that circulates regulalry. Kind of like everyone knowing twins named Orangello and Lemongello

DP, a current third grade teacher told me this personally. It used to be irrelevant when Kindergarten was more like pre-K, but now the differences are stark especially in more affluent areas where kids who were in school had a ton of enrichment.

Not true. Kids with SAHMs aren't sitting in dark basements with no enrichment or social interaction. It isn't you go to school and have enrichment and social interaction or you are at home with a caregiver / parent and have no enrichment / social activity. That is the reality.

I have no particular dog in this fight but most SAHPs don’t have the resources the elite pre-ks do for enrichment. If you hire a mandarin speaker for immersion and your kids ride your horses and swim at your Olympic aquatic facility then this comment doesn’t apply to you.

Preschoolers don't need Mandarin lessons or horse riding to have enrichment and social interaction. It is absolutely ridiculous to claim that this is the path to enrichment and social interaction. Most people, SAHP or working parents, don't have resources for "elite" preKs and that's OK because kids don't need that anyway. The regular co-op preschool or church/JCC preschool works just fine.

The point he it’s better than nothing and kids no longer show up to K to learn to play with others, they show up to K ready to read. They better have gone to pre-k even at the JCC (which is btw pretty elite here) and be ready to hit the ground running instead of traumatize by being away from mommy for the 1st time.

You guys what kids need for kindergarten readiness is stuff like knowing all the letters and their sounds (and honestly plenty of K kids start only knowing the letters and not even being able to identify all upper and lower) and being able to count items up to 5 and 10. Knowing how to line up and keep hands to themselves. Being able to share scissors.

The narrative that a child needs to be in 5 years of professional childcare before starting K is insane. And any prep you do need a kid could easily get from a half day preschool when they are 4.

Stay at home or go to work no one cares but there is not some epidemic of kids starting kindergarten vastly underprepared because they aren't bilingual or didn't attend the "elite" JCC preschool.

You all sound extremely stupid.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I get it, because it’s true, even if people don’t want to admit that’s what’s happening when children are in full-time daycare. But in polite society we avoid saying things that might hurt someone’s feelings, regardless of whether it’s truthful or not.

But it’s not truthful. My kids went to daycare, and, sure, their daycare teachers, who were all wonderful, provided care during the workday. But my spouse and I made the decisions on how to parent, which included finding great caregivers.

If your children go to daycare for 10-11 (7-6 or 7:30-5:30) hours a day for the first 4-5 years of life and sleep 10-12 hours a night then you are not spending 4-5 hours with them each day 70% of the week. How is this controversial? You are outsourcing a lot of parenting duties to other caregivers. Someone saying that they don’t want to do that is not wrong. And I’m saying this as a full time working parent.

I actually did the math with my neighbor who was a SAHM and I did spend more 1-1 time with my kids than she did.

1st. My H's time counted and I know many of SAHP's who are the 1st to tell you that their H does nothing, works late, travels a lot.
2nd: She did not take into account napping, time in front of TV, time they were in the basement playing and she was futzing around.

I don't think a SAHP should be connected at the hip and I think that independent time is valuable but the reality is she was not spending more 1-1 time with her child than I was.

I think you are mistaken. There's just simply not a chance that you spend more 1-1 time with kids than a SAHP unless the SAHP is outsourcing a ton of childcare. Your kids never play in the basement or nap or watch TV when you're with them? And how much time during the day are the SAHP neighbor's kids doing that? 2 hrs out of a 8+ hour work day...your math isn't mathing.

And there’s the rub. I think because she is home so much she doesn’t even think about doing things with her kids.

I think because I’m not home all day as soon as I get home I want to get outside I take them to the park, Or we go for a hike, We hit a museum, Or walk around the zoo.

in fact when I get home from work the neighbor whose H was sick and she asked me to watch her kids, I immediately pick them up and take them with me to do these things.

The woman who is complaining that she wasn’t chosen to be the caregiver is like sure just send them to my house. They can watch TV or play in the yard while I make dinner or entertain my child in the basement.

You've posted this story like 4 times in this thread. Your experience is not representative of all working parents' experiences. Your supposed ne're-do-well SAHM neighbor isn't forgetting she has kids to hang out with for 8 hours a day every day but go off.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Mom of two teens here with two observations:

1) my kids friends are all really great, smart, well mannered, kind kids. I couldn’t tell you which ones had SAHMs and which ones had WOHMs if I didn’t know their parents (I know many but not all and it’s a mix of both working and non working parents - they all raised awesome kids).


2) this concept of raising your own children is a relatively new phenomenon. Ever heard of the term “it takes a village”? I also have seen some studies that say that working parents now spend significantly more time with their children than stay at home moms did 20-30 years ago. Probably because there isn’t really a village anymore.

Interesting how everyone is just passing by and ignoring this post. As a mom of older ES kids, I agree - all of my children's friends are wonderful kids. Some of them have SAHMs, some of them have two working parents. They're all great kids. If it makes you ladies feel better to put down working moms and tell us we're ruining our children forever, then fine, go ahead, but my kids have turned out great so far, even with a mom who sent them to daycare.

I agree that there are great kids of working parents and great kids of stay at home parents. But the topic isn't about outcomes/how the kids turn out in the end as a result of who raises them. The topic is about who IS actually raising the kids and, although I'd never say this to anyone and think it's totally rude to do so, you can't really argue that parents who both work and whose kids either go to daycare or have a nanny or a grandparent or whoever take care of them are being 100% raised by their parents. They hardly even see their parents. They spend most of their time w/ someone other than their parents. It's just not possible that their parents are the main ones raising them.

Except every parent with kids in school or preschool do this and you are saying only the SAH person is raising their Child, even though the working parent sees the child just as much.

This thread is largely about kids who are not yet school age.

Though also lots of preschools are not full time so are not meant to be full time childcare -- my child attended a half day preschool starting at age 2.5 which was great and helped her get ready for kindergarten. It was 3 hours a day.

And even once you have school age kids... my kid is off today and tomorrow and monday. He's been sick 4 days in the last month due to RSV and a bad cold going around his school. 10 weeks off in summer. Winter break (2 weeks) and spring break (1 week). Random PD days throughout the year. And the kicker -- school ends at 2:30pm.

Even once kids are in school SAHP see their kids a lot more than full time working parents. And I say that as a working parent. You can't deny facts.

He was in school for 3 hours (ours was 4) then he naps for 2 hours in the afternoon, that is 5 of the 8 hours for you (6for me).

So 3 hours (2for me) difference.

The idea is that working moms and sahms have similar hours with their kids is just patently absurd.

I spend just as much time at my paid employment (even though I work part time) as every single mother posting here who works full time! It’s simple math!

/s

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is it rude to say I didn't want to be a SAHP because I wanted my kids to be raise in a stimulating environment instead of spending their days watching tv and running errands to Costco.

You're just talking about how YOU would be as a SAHP, not how all or most SAHPs are. Maybe your best if you were to SAH would be to turn on TV and take kids to Costco but that certainly doesn't describe the SAHPs I know.

No, if I were SAHP, I’d be at museums and parks and hiking. BUT I Don’t need to stay at home to do that. I have a very flexible schedule and I get home at four and we go to the park and we hike and we go to the museums and we go to the zoo.

I’m talking about all the moms in my book club who were like oh my God I ran so many errands this week. I had to go to Costco three times and then I went to Michael’s and I had to go to three stores before I found the correct fall pillows that I love.

OK. So you're another poster who believes that your sample size of a few women in your book club is representative of all SAHPs. I'm a SAHP and my kids hardly ever go on errands with me (I run errands when they're at school) and they watch 30 mins of screens per day. But go ahead and think whatever you want about what all SAHMs apparently do or don't do.

just like stay home parents who think all working part have kids in day care 10 hours a day.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I get it, because it’s true, even if people don’t want to admit that’s what’s happening when children are in full-time daycare. But in polite society we avoid saying things that might hurt someone’s feelings, regardless of whether it’s truthful or not.

But it’s not truthful. My kids went to daycare, and, sure, their daycare teachers, who were all wonderful, provided care during the workday. But my spouse and I made the decisions on how to parent, which included finding great caregivers.

If your children go to daycare for 10-11 (7-6 or 7:30-5:30) hours a day for the first 4-5 years of life and sleep 10-12 hours a night then you are not spending 4-5 hours with them each day 70% of the week. How is this controversial? You are outsourcing a lot of parenting duties to other caregivers. Someone saying that they don’t want to do that is not wrong. And I’m saying this as a full time working parent.

I actually did the math with my neighbor who was a SAHM and I did spend more 1-1 time with my kids than she did.

1st. My H's time counted and I know many of SAHP's who are the 1st to tell you that their H does nothing, works late, travels a lot.
2nd: She did not take into account napping, time in front of TV, time they were in the basement playing and she was futzing around.

I don't think a SAHP should be connected at the hip and I think that independent time is valuable but the reality is she was not spending more 1-1 time with her child than I was.

Whether you are currently working or staying home, I hope you aren't tutoring your DC in math.

Oh did I hurt your feelings to learn I might spend more quality time with my kids than you do?

NP but I can assure you, you do NOT spend more time with your kids than a SAHP. It's impossible. "Quality" time is debatable but in your initial post you didn't say quality time you said 1-1 time.

Yeah, I spend more one on one time as well as quality time both I do both.

No, you don't. Unless you're just comparing yourself to this one SAHM you know. You don't spend more time with your kids than majority of SAHPs, though.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Point being that when you work from home and have young kids, you are less efficient at work so something that may take 2 hours can get stretched to 5.

Not if they are napping.

Are you kidding? Kids do not nap all the time. Do you only have one kid? Give it a rest.

I actually used to cuddle with my toddler when she napped. When she was a baby, I napped when she napped.

Kids are mostly at school during their childhood and when they aren't they nap... a lot.

No I didn't nap during the day do you have narcolepsy?

I don't work when the kids are awake. I work when they are asleep or I engage with them, or they are at school or preschool or playdates.

Yes I have more than 1 kid but I don't have 3 under 5 that would make it hard.

No one with a reasonably demanding full time job is providing full time childcare and parenting young children at the same time. You can’t do both at the same time well. Remember? This was proven again and again to many of us during the pandemic.

It’s already been proven by showing schedules that for an infant, They are with nanny for maybe 3 to 4 waking hours.

Children don’t stay infants for long

And that schedules also been shared. The children were with their father in the morning, Went to preschool, Took a nap, And was with a caregiver less than two hours in the afternoon before mom got home.

That's your schedule. That's not a universal or even remotely common schedule for majority of kids of working parents, majority of whom are in daycare for 8+ hours a day.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Mom of two teens here with two observations:

1) my kids friends are all really great, smart, well mannered, kind kids. I couldn’t tell you which ones had SAHMs and which ones had WOHMs if I didn’t know their parents (I know many but not all and it’s a mix of both working and non working parents - they all raised awesome kids).


2) this concept of raising your own children is a relatively new phenomenon. Ever heard of the term “it takes a village”? I also have seen some studies that say that working parents now spend significantly more time with their children than stay at home moms did 20-30 years ago. Probably because there isn’t really a village anymore.

Interesting how everyone is just passing by and ignoring this post. As a mom of older ES kids, I agree - all of my children's friends are wonderful kids. Some of them have SAHMs, some of them have two working parents. They're all great kids. If it makes you ladies feel better to put down working moms and tell us we're ruining our children forever, then fine, go ahead, but my kids have turned out great so far, even with a mom who sent them to daycare.

I agree that there are great kids of working parents and great kids of stay at home parents. But the topic isn't about outcomes/how the kids turn out in the end as a result of who raises them. The topic is about who IS actually raising the kids and, although I'd never say this to anyone and think it's totally rude to do so, you can't really argue that parents who both work and whose kids either go to daycare or have a nanny or a grandparent or whoever take care of them are being 100% raised by their parents. They hardly even see their parents. They spend most of their time w/ someone other than their parents. It's just not possible that their parents are the main ones raising them.

Except every parent with kids in school or preschool do this and you are saying only the SAH person is raising their Child, even though the working parent sees the child just as much.

This thread is largely about kids who are not yet school age.

Though also lots of preschools are not full time so are not meant to be full time childcare -- my child attended a half day preschool starting at age 2.5 which was great and helped her get ready for kindergarten. It was 3 hours a day.

And even once you have school age kids... my kid is off today and tomorrow and monday. He's been sick 4 days in the last month due to RSV and a bad cold going around his school. 10 weeks off in summer. Winter break (2 weeks) and spring break (1 week). Random PD days throughout the year. And the kicker -- school ends at 2:30pm.

Even once kids are in school SAHP see their kids a lot more than full time working parents. And I say that as a working parent. You can't deny facts.

He was in school for 3 hours (ours was 4) then he naps for 2 hours in the afternoon, that is 5 of the 8 hours for you (6for me).

So 3 hours (2for me) difference.

The idea is that working moms and sahms have similar hours with their kids is just patently absurd.

I spend just as much time at my paid employment (even though I work part time) as every single mother posting here who works full time! It’s simple math!

/s

How about you and your H who both work part time work as much as 1 full time person.

Now do you get it

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I get it, because it’s true, even if people don’t want to admit that’s what’s happening when children are in full-time daycare. But in polite society we avoid saying things that might hurt someone’s feelings, regardless of whether it’s truthful or not.

But it’s not truthful. My kids went to daycare, and, sure, their daycare teachers, who were all wonderful, provided care during the workday. But my spouse and I made the decisions on how to parent, which included finding great caregivers.

If your children go to daycare for 10-11 (7-6 or 7:30-5:30) hours a day for the first 4-5 years of life and sleep 10-12 hours a night then you are not spending 4-5 hours with them each day 70% of the week. How is this controversial? You are outsourcing a lot of parenting duties to other caregivers. Someone saying that they don’t want to do that is not wrong. And I’m saying this as a full time working parent.

I actually did the math with my neighbor who was a SAHM and I did spend more 1-1 time with my kids than she did.

1st. My H's time counted and I know many of SAHP's who are the 1st to tell you that their H does nothing, works late, travels a lot.
2nd: She did not take into account napping, time in front of TV, time they were in the basement playing and she was futzing around.

I don't think a SAHP should be connected at the hip and I think that independent time is valuable but the reality is she was not spending more 1-1 time with her child than I was.

Whether you are currently working or staying home, I hope you aren't tutoring your DC in math.

Oh did I hurt your feelings to learn I might spend more quality time with my kids than you do?

NP but I can assure you, you do NOT spend more time with your kids than a SAHP. It's impossible. "Quality" time is debatable but in your initial post you didn't say quality time you said 1-1 time.

Yeah, I spend more one on one time as well as quality time both I do both.

No, you don't. Unless you're just comparing yourself to this one SAHM you know. You don't spend more time with your kids than majority of SAHPs, though.

Yes we do because we don’t overlap our work schedules like some … my H does mornings, I do afternoons. No care needed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is it rude to say I didn't want to be a SAHP because I wanted my kids to be raise in a stimulating environment instead of spending their days watching tv and running errands to Costco.

You're just talking about how YOU would be as a SAHP, not how all or most SAHPs are. Maybe your best if you were to SAH would be to turn on TV and take kids to Costco but that certainly doesn't describe the SAHPs I know.

No, if I were SAHP, I’d be at museums and parks and hiking. BUT I Don’t need to stay at home to do that. I have a very flexible schedule and I get home at four and we go to the park and we hike and we go to the museums and we go to the zoo.

I’m talking about all the moms in my book club who were like oh my God I ran so many errands this week. I had to go to Costco three times and then I went to Michael’s and I had to go to three stores before I found the correct fall pillows that I love.

So… do you just never run errands? You don’t have to grocery shop or get the oil changed? You never mow the lawn or do the laundry, either, or scrub the floors, because you’re too busy “working” or taking Larlo to the yoga retreat in the mountains? Do fairies, birds, and mice keep your home running?

No actually I don't do any of those things besides laundry. We have lawn service and a cleaning service, DH does the car maintenance which is infrequent. We optimize so our non-work time is really kid time not random errands etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Point being that when you work from home and have young kids, you are less efficient at work so something that may take 2 hours can get stretched to 5.

Not if they are napping.

Are you kidding? Kids do not nap all the time. Do you only have one kid? Give it a rest.

I actually used to cuddle with my toddler when she napped. When she was a baby, I napped when she napped.

Kids are mostly at school during their childhood and when they aren't they nap... a lot.

No I didn't nap during the day do you have narcolepsy?

I don't work when the kids are awake. I work when they are asleep or I engage with them, or they are at school or preschool or playdates.

Yes I have more than 1 kid but I don't have 3 under 5 that would make it hard.

No one with a reasonably demanding full time job is providing full time childcare and parenting young children at the same time. You can’t do both at the same time well. Remember? This was proven again and again to many of us during the pandemic.

It’s already been proven by showing schedules that for an infant, They are with nanny for maybe 3 to 4 waking hours.

Children don’t stay infants for long

And that schedules also been shared. The children were with their father in the morning, Went to preschool, Took a nap, And was with a caregiver less than two hours in the afternoon before mom got home.

That's your schedule. That's not a universal or even remotely common schedule for majority of kids of working parents, majority of whom are in daycare for 8+ hours a day.

Question wasn’t what do the majority of working women think when you are faced with an insecure SAHP exclaiming “I raise my own children”

Besides a flash of Kevin Hart saying “ you’re supposed to MFR. What do you want a cookie?”

I also think too bad you can’t be as fortunate as me have a job and have both parents raising their children.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is it rude to say I didn't want to be a SAHP because I wanted my kids to be raise in a stimulating environment instead of spending their days watching tv and running errands to Costco.

You're just talking about how YOU would be as a SAHP, not how all or most SAHPs are. Maybe your best if you were to SAH would be to turn on TV and take kids to Costco but that certainly doesn't describe the SAHPs I know.

No, if I were SAHP, I’d be at museums and parks and hiking. BUT I Don’t need to stay at home to do that. I have a very flexible schedule and I get home at four and we go to the park and we hike and we go to the museums and we go to the zoo.

I’m talking about all the moms in my book club who were like oh my God I ran so many errands this week. I had to go to Costco three times and then I went to Michael’s and I had to go to three stores before I found the correct fall pillows that I love.

So… do you just never run errands? You don’t have to grocery shop or get the oil changed? You never mow the lawn or do the laundry, either, or scrub the floors, because you’re too busy “working” or taking Larlo to the yoga retreat in the mountains? Do fairies, birds, and mice keep your home running?

No actually I don't do any of those things besides laundry. We have lawn service and a cleaning service, DH does the car maintenance which is infrequent. We optimize so our non-work time is really kid time not random errands etc.

See a SAHP who figured it out.