Are you offended when someone says they “didnt want someone else to raise my kids”?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Not considering my children's benefit from my being a SAHM when they were born and very young, I am so grateful that I MYSELF was able to be home with my kids. I would have missed experiencing so much and my life is so much richer for that experience. It makes me sad that my husband did not get to experience the same and I will be forever grateful to him for enabling me to have that time.

This.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Nah, I just pity them because I know they must be insecure about their SAHM choices and bored with sitting home with their kids and needing to justify their decisions. Yes, I have less time with my kids because I WOH, but I still raise them.

Oh, come one. If the topic comes up at all it's because someone judgmentally asked them why they don't work. What other answer is there? It is why people chose to stay home. It a dumb question to ask someone if you don't want to hear the answer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Mom of two teens here with two observations:

1) my kids friends are all really great, smart, well mannered, kind kids. I couldn’t tell you which ones had SAHMs and which ones had WOHMs if I didn’t know their parents (I know many but not all and it’s a mix of both working and non working parents - they all raised awesome kids).


2) this concept of raising your own children is a relatively new phenomenon. Ever heard of the term “it takes a village”? I also have seen some studies that say that working parents now spend significantly more time with their children than stay at home moms did 20-30 years ago. Probably because there isn’t really a village anymore.

Interesting how everyone is just passing by and ignoring this post. As a mom of older ES kids, I agree - all of my children's friends are wonderful kids. Some of them have SAHMs, some of them have two working parents. They're all great kids. If it makes you ladies feel better to put down working moms and tell us we're ruining our children forever, then fine, go ahead, but my kids have turned out great so far, even with a mom who sent them to daycare.

I agree that there are great kids of working parents and great kids of stay at home parents. But the topic isn't about outcomes/how the kids turn out in the end as a result of who raises them. The topic is about who IS actually raising the kids and, although I'd never say this to anyone and think it's totally rude to do so, you can't really argue that parents who both work and whose kids either go to daycare or have a nanny or a grandparent or whoever take care of them are being 100% raised by their parents. They hardly even see their parents. They spend most of their time w/ someone other than their parents. It's just not possible that their parents are the main ones raising them.

Except every parent with kids in school or preschool do this and you are saying only the SAH person is raising their Child, even though the working parent sees the child just as much.

This thread is largely about kids who are not yet school age.

Though also lots of preschools are not full time so are not meant to be full time childcare -- my child attended a half day preschool starting at age 2.5 which was great and helped her get ready for kindergarten. It was 3 hours a day.

And even once you have school age kids... my kid is off today and tomorrow and monday. He's been sick 4 days in the last month due to RSV and a bad cold going around his school. 10 weeks off in summer. Winter break (2 weeks) and spring break (1 week). Random PD days throughout the year. And the kicker -- school ends at 2:30pm.

Even once kids are in school SAHP see their kids a lot more than full time working parents. And I say that as a working parent. You can't deny facts.

He was in school for 3 hours (ours was 4) then he naps for 2 hours in the afternoon, that is 5 of the 8 hours for you (6for me).

So 3 hours (2for me) difference.

The idea is that working moms and sahms have similar hours with their kids is just patently absurd.

It seems absurd until you actually write the hours down and then you realize that the minuscule amount of hours that a SAHP gets with their child versus a working parent is not big enough to justify it as a reason to stay home.

You seem bitter.

[Anonymous]

Wow apparently it is a thing for very bitter and defensive working moms to scour their social circles for SAHPs who they think have it easy or don't spend time with their kids I guess? Whatever gets you through the day. I was a SAHP for a time and I spent the whole day with my kids. I sometimes even napped with them! And if I didn't I was often doing things for them anyway -- pureeing baby food or straightening up or researching a solution to an issue they were having. It was a full time job. I'd like to say it got easier when they went to part-time preschool but it didn't because by then they were so incredibly active and into so much stuff. Even part-time preschool is work -- 15 minute commute there and back means an hour of driving so your kid can spend 3.5 hours a preschool. Plus making lunch and doing snack days and staying for morning meeting once a week and chatting with the teachers about how they are doing. It's not like having a nanny come to your house and watch your kid for the morning -- it's more involved.

Anyway I work now that my kids are in school but I will always have respect for SAHPs especially of young kids. People act like it's easy or stupid and assume they don't work hard but they do. They certainly work harder than I do now (sitting at a computer all day and talking on the phone? Whatever after being a SAHP this is like a semi-vacation -- no one pees on me and no one says no to me 15x before lying down in protest and I get to finish whole thoughts and sentences without being interrupted).

But maybe I need to find a SAHP neighbor who I think is just sucking it up and ignoring her kids so that I feel good about myself? Is that how we do it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's an insensitive thing to say because as women we are all supposed to be empathetic to the fact that no matter what women do regarding work and motherhood someone is going to judge us and we're going to feel guilty.

But also I think people say this sometimes because they are just being honest and it's how they feel. Just like I think women who go back to work actually sometimes do it because they are bored out of their minds at home with babies and want to "use their brains." I also know women who have said that they went back to work because they believe their kids are better off being raised by nannies or caregivers who are "experts" as opposed to a sahm.

All of these things will be hurtful to hear to someone who made a different choice and they are also things people actually think and feel. Women are presented with this impossible choice (if they are fortunate to even have a choice at all which most are not) and there is no answer that will ever be right for everyone so we all do this dance with each other about our choices and we offend each other constantly because there's no way for us to all validate each other and ourselves at the same time unless we all make the same choice.

But we cannot all make the same choice because we are different people with different kids and different professions and different finances and different partners and different resources.

I just try to remember all that whenever I talk to other women about this stuff and when they say things that can be viewed as an insult to my choices. They aren't really talking about me. It's just about them. And that's fine.

But why do we need to be validating our own choices to other people? DH and I made the decisions right for our family (career choices, number of kids, where to live, what schools to send them to, etc.) based on our own personal life circumstances and priorities. I am under no illusion that our choices are the “best ever” or even “better” than what other families have chosen. But I am secure we’ve made decisions that make our family happy.

I can have a conversation with another parent who made different choices than me without needing to justify/explain things in a way that belittle their choices. For instance I have a friend who is a SAHM with a big law DH. When talking to her I 100% understand why it would be logistically a nightmare for her to try to be the primary parent for 3 kids and work since he is gone long hours. Whereas I work FT but my DH also has a super flexible remote job and can help with a lot of the morning routine, shuttling kids around, etc. We can both discuss our lives and the situational decisions we’ve made without making generalized conclusions that our choice is better than the other.

I feel sorry for those who lack the ability to understand their life choices are not necessarily the best choices for others and that we do not need validate ourselves at the expense of putting down others.

This is how most well adjusted people function. The rest don't see how classless they come off putting others down and getting snippy about the decisions of others. I do think there are also genuinely unaware people who are hyper focused on their own reasons (use my brain, raise my kids) that they say it out loud without meaning to imply insult or even that someone else isn't doing that. Honestly, most of us aren't so blatant but likely don't realize all the ways we've insulted others day to day. Still, some people do mean offense and it usually doesn't sting unless you are hearing a chorus of it. Funny enough, I've been hearing one resounding sentiment but from experience on this site, other women get the flip side advised to them by their family so I can understand their defensiveness.

You're almost there. When people talk about their own decisions, they are not putting others down. Others are interpreting other people's statements as if they are reflections upon themselves when other people are just talking about themselves. It is people's insecurity and self-absorption that causes people to be offended by other people's statements about their own situations. People are not classless when they talk about their own situation. People are insecure when they are offended when other people talk about their situation.

It isn't about you.

People’s choices are about them but sometimes the language encompasses other people’s behavior. Do you really not see the difference between “I wanted to spend time with my kids when they are little” and “ I didn’t want someone else raising my kids”?

By your logic doesn’t the bolded imply that the working parent doesn’t want to spend time with their kids when they’re little?

There is literally no way to have a conversation without offending people these days. I’d say most of you should stick to discussing the weather, but I’m sure it would take less than two minutes before someone makes it political and then everyone is taking it personally.

Your logic is wrong. I have made no statements about what other people do or don't want to do. Maybe that's the issue -- some people really cannot see the difference.

There is no difference. You’re just incorrect and too defensive/sensitive to admit it. Which tracks with you being offended about someone saying they want to raise their own kids (or don’t want someone else to raise their kids) in the first place.

I'm not defensive. You have poor logic. Under your logic, I can say absolutely nothing about what I like something and why I did something because it would suggest something about the other person?

This is *your* logic we are talking about, and clearly you are deeply confused. A random woman saying “I don’t want someone else raising my kids” has absolutely nothing to do with you (unless you have just offered to raise her kids).

100% . I am a full time working mom of three children and I am not offended. This is apparently so upsetting to some people that they don’t believe me. I’m a secure person. I’m secure in my decisions and my parenting and in who I am as a person. Someone doing something different from me does not make me feel insecure or invalidated or whatever. I don’t need to police the universe or only hang out with working moms to feel OK about myself. Just own your decisions and be OK with yourself! Someone else’s decision is not a judgement on your decisions.

[Anonymous]

+1 for this is typically said in response to some snarky, belittling comment about SAHM's having it easy (and I'm not a SAHM). And then the aggressive (because of their own insecurities about parenting) person is "offended". Can we please stop with this nonsense? This does not need to be such a polarizing issue. You are looking for things to be upset about. Every family is doing what works for them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not considering my children's benefit from my being a SAHM when they were born and very young, I am so grateful that I MYSELF was able to be home with my kids. I would have missed experiencing so much and my life is so much richer for that experience. It makes me sad that my husband did not get to experience the same and I will be forever grateful to him for enabling me to have that time.

This.

And many of us are eternally grateful we both could be there and have those experiences.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I get it, because it’s true, even if people don’t want to admit that’s what’s happening when children are in full-time daycare. But in polite society we avoid saying things that might hurt someone’s feelings, regardless of whether it’s truthful or not.

But it’s not truthful. My kids went to daycare, and, sure, their daycare teachers, who were all wonderful, provided care during the workday. But my spouse and I made the decisions on how to parent, which included finding great caregivers.

If your children go to daycare for 10-11 (7-6 or 7:30-5:30) hours a day for the first 4-5 years of life and sleep 10-12 hours a night then you are not spending 4-5 hours with them each day 70% of the week. How is this controversial? You are outsourcing a lot of parenting duties to other caregivers. Someone saying that they don’t want to do that is not wrong. And I’m saying this as a full time working parent.

I actually did the math with my neighbor who was a SAHM and I did spend more 1-1 time with my kids than she did.

1st. My H's time counted and I know many of SAHP's who are the 1st to tell you that their H does nothing, works late, travels a lot.
2nd: She did not take into account napping, time in front of TV, time they were in the basement playing and she was futzing around.

I don't think a SAHP should be connected at the hip and I think that independent time is valuable but the reality is she was not spending more 1-1 time with her child than I was.

I think you are mistaken. There's just simply not a chance that you spend more 1-1 time with kids than a SAHP unless the SAHP is outsourcing a ton of childcare. Your kids never play in the basement or nap or watch TV when you're with them? And how much time during the day are the SAHP neighbor's kids doing that? 2 hrs out of a 8+ hour work day...your math isn't mathing.

And there’s the rub. I think because she is home so much she doesn’t even think about doing things with her kids.

I think because I’m not home all day as soon as I get home I want to get outside I take them to the park, Or we go for a hike, We hit a museum, Or walk around the zoo.

in fact when I get home from work the neighbor whose H was sick and she asked me to watch her kids, I immediately pick them up and take them with me to do these things.

The woman who is complaining that she wasn’t chosen to be the caregiver is like sure just send them to my house. They can watch TV or play in the yard while I make dinner or entertain my child in the basement.

Assuming this is all true, your neighbor is n=1. Your neighbor is not representative of the vast majority of SAHP. Nor does your post, however unnecessarily involved, get at the original question of whether it was ok for someone to say they didn’t want their kids raised by strangers.

You go hiking, biking, your kids tube on the lake behind your house every afternoon at 2 pm while you drive the boat before going to the Metropolitan Museum of Art and discuss El Greco for six hours. We get it. You’re amazing! Tahoe by day, NYC by afternoon. You never go to Costco. You work 190 hours per week at work and get out by 3 pm to pick up your kid from daycare and play laser tag before you coach soccer and you make $280K!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As a reason for why one spouse chose not to work or works from home/at a flexible part time job? Or is this an acceptable turn of phrase?

Heck no. Nothing people say is personal to you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Mom of two teens here with two observations:

1) my kids friends are all really great, smart, well mannered, kind kids. I couldn’t tell you which ones had SAHMs and which ones had WOHMs if I didn’t know their parents (I know many but not all and it’s a mix of both working and non working parents - they all raised awesome kids).


2) this concept of raising your own children is a relatively new phenomenon. Ever heard of the term “it takes a village”? I also have seen some studies that say that working parents now spend significantly more time with their children than stay at home moms did 20-30 years ago. Probably because there isn’t really a village anymore.

Interesting how everyone is just passing by and ignoring this post. As a mom of older ES kids, I agree - all of my children's friends are wonderful kids. Some of them have SAHMs, some of them have two working parents. They're all great kids. If it makes you ladies feel better to put down working moms and tell us we're ruining our children forever, then fine, go ahead, but my kids have turned out great so far, even with a mom who sent them to daycare.

I agree that there are great kids of working parents and great kids of stay at home parents. But the topic isn't about outcomes/how the kids turn out in the end as a result of who raises them. The topic is about who IS actually raising the kids and, although I'd never say this to anyone and think it's totally rude to do so, you can't really argue that parents who both work and whose kids either go to daycare or have a nanny or a grandparent or whoever take care of them are being 100% raised by their parents. They hardly even see their parents. They spend most of their time w/ someone other than their parents. It's just not possible that their parents are the main ones raising them.

Except every parent with kids in school or preschool do this and you are saying only the SAH person is raising their Child, even though the working parent sees the child just as much.

This thread is largely about kids who are not yet school age.

Though also lots of preschools are not full time so are not meant to be full time childcare -- my child attended a half day preschool starting at age 2.5 which was great and helped her get ready for kindergarten. It was 3 hours a day.

And even once you have school age kids... my kid is off today and tomorrow and monday. He's been sick 4 days in the last month due to RSV and a bad cold going around his school. 10 weeks off in summer. Winter break (2 weeks) and spring break (1 week). Random PD days throughout the year. And the kicker -- school ends at 2:30pm.

Even once kids are in school SAHP see their kids a lot more than full time working parents. And I say that as a working parent. You can't deny facts.

He was in school for 3 hours (ours was 4) then he naps for 2 hours in the afternoon, that is 5 of the 8 hours for you (6for me).

So 3 hours (2for me) difference.

The idea is that working moms and sahms have similar hours with their kids is just patently absurd.

It seems absurd until you actually write the hours down and then you realize that the minuscule amount of hours that a SAHP gets with their child versus a working parent is not big enough to justify it as a reason to stay home.

You seem bitter.

You are defensive and I can understand when you realize there are families out there who figured out how to have both parents home with their kids with very little help to bridge a few hour gap during the day.

Just to think … kids with 2 completely engaged parents… looks like you can have it all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I get it, because it’s true, even if people don’t want to admit that’s what’s happening when children are in full-time daycare. But in polite society we avoid saying things that might hurt someone’s feelings, regardless of whether it’s truthful or not.

But it’s not truthful. My kids went to daycare, and, sure, their daycare teachers, who were all wonderful, provided care during the workday. But my spouse and I made the decisions on how to parent, which included finding great caregivers.

If your children go to daycare for 10-11 (7-6 or 7:30-5:30) hours a day for the first 4-5 years of life and sleep 10-12 hours a night then you are not spending 4-5 hours with them each day 70% of the week. How is this controversial? You are outsourcing a lot of parenting duties to other caregivers. Someone saying that they don’t want to do that is not wrong. And I’m saying this as a full time working parent.

I actually did the math with my neighbor who was a SAHM and I did spend more 1-1 time with my kids than she did.

1st. My H's time counted and I know many of SAHP's who are the 1st to tell you that their H does nothing, works late, travels a lot.
2nd: She did not take into account napping, time in front of TV, time they were in the basement playing and she was futzing around.

I don't think a SAHP should be connected at the hip and I think that independent time is valuable but the reality is she was not spending more 1-1 time with her child than I was.

I think you are mistaken. There's just simply not a chance that you spend more 1-1 time with kids than a SAHP unless the SAHP is outsourcing a ton of childcare. Your kids never play in the basement or nap or watch TV when you're with them? And how much time during the day are the SAHP neighbor's kids doing that? 2 hrs out of a 8+ hour work day...your math isn't mathing.

And there’s the rub. I think because she is home so much she doesn’t even think about doing things with her kids.

I think because I’m not home all day as soon as I get home I want to get outside I take them to the park, Or we go for a hike, We hit a museum, Or walk around the zoo.

in fact when I get home from work the neighbor whose H was sick and she asked me to watch her kids, I immediately pick them up and take them with me to do these things.

The woman who is complaining that she wasn’t chosen to be the caregiver is like sure just send them to my house. They can watch TV or play in the yard while I make dinner or entertain my child in the basement.

Assuming this is all true, your neighbor is n=1. Your neighbor is not representative of the vast majority of SAHP. Nor does your post, however unnecessarily involved, get at the original question of whether it was ok for someone to say they didn’t want their kids raised by strangers.

You go hiking, biking, your kids tube on the lake behind your house every afternoon at 2 pm while you drive the boat before going to the Metropolitan Museum of Art and discuss El Greco for six hours. We get it. You’re amazing! Tahoe by day, NYC by afternoon. You never go to Costco. You work 190 hours per week at work and get out by 3 pm to pick up your kid from daycare and play laser tag before you coach soccer and you make $280K!

Pretty much except I work 40 hours and my H the same.

It can work if you want it to.

But if you want to SAH and have a absent h and that works for you because he needs to work 190 hours a week to pick up your slack go for it just stop being so defensive about how other families have figured out how to work and be there for their kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Wow apparently it is a thing for very bitter and defensive working moms to scour their social circles for SAHPs who they think have it easy or don't spend time with their kids I guess? Whatever gets you through the day. I was a SAHP for a time and I spent the whole day with my kids. I sometimes even napped with them! And if I didn't I was often doing things for them anyway -- pureeing baby food or straightening up or researching a solution to an issue they were having. It was a full time job. I'd like to say it got easier when they went to part-time preschool but it didn't because by then they were so incredibly active and into so much stuff. Even part-time preschool is work -- 15 minute commute there and back means an hour of driving so your kid can spend 3.5 hours a preschool. Plus making lunch and doing snack days and staying for morning meeting once a week and chatting with the teachers about how they are doing. It's not like having a nanny come to your house and watch your kid for the morning -- it's more involved.

Anyway I work now that my kids are in school but I will always have respect for SAHPs especially of young kids. People act like it's easy or stupid and assume they don't work hard but they do. They certainly work harder than I do now (sitting at a computer all day and talking on the phone? Whatever after being a SAHP this is like a semi-vacation -- no one pees on me and no one says no to me 15x before lying down in protest and I get to finish whole thoughts and sentences without being interrupted).

But maybe I need to find a SAHP neighbor who I think is just sucking it up and ignoring her kids so that I feel good about myself? Is that how we do it?

lol now napping and being at home while they are at preschool is “being a parent”.

The bar is getting lower and lower and lower.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I get it, because it’s true, even if people don’t want to admit that’s what’s happening when children are in full-time daycare. But in polite society we avoid saying things that might hurt someone’s feelings, regardless of whether it’s truthful or not.

But it’s not truthful. My kids went to daycare, and, sure, their daycare teachers, who were all wonderful, provided care during the workday. But my spouse and I made the decisions on how to parent, which included finding great caregivers.

If your children go to daycare for 10-11 (7-6 or 7:30-5:30) hours a day for the first 4-5 years of life and sleep 10-12 hours a night then you are not spending 4-5 hours with them each day 70% of the week. How is this controversial? You are outsourcing a lot of parenting duties to other caregivers. Someone saying that they don’t want to do that is not wrong. And I’m saying this as a full time working parent.

I actually did the math with my neighbor who was a SAHM and I did spend more 1-1 time with my kids than she did.

1st. My H's time counted and I know many of SAHP's who are the 1st to tell you that their H does nothing, works late, travels a lot.
2nd: She did not take into account napping, time in front of TV, time they were in the basement playing and she was futzing around.

I don't think a SAHP should be connected at the hip and I think that independent time is valuable but the reality is she was not spending more 1-1 time with her child than I was.

I think you are mistaken. There's just simply not a chance that you spend more 1-1 time with kids than a SAHP unless the SAHP is outsourcing a ton of childcare. Your kids never play in the basement or nap or watch TV when you're with them? And how much time during the day are the SAHP neighbor's kids doing that? 2 hrs out of a 8+ hour work day...your math isn't mathing.

And there’s the rub. I think because she is home so much she doesn’t even think about doing things with her kids.

I think because I’m not home all day as soon as I get home I want to get outside I take them to the park, Or we go for a hike, We hit a museum, Or walk around the zoo.

in fact when I get home from work the neighbor whose H was sick and she asked me to watch her kids, I immediately pick them up and take them with me to do these things.

The woman who is complaining that she wasn’t chosen to be the caregiver is like sure just send them to my house. They can watch TV or play in the yard while I make dinner or entertain my child in the basement.

Assuming this is all true, your neighbor is n=1. Your neighbor is not representative of the vast majority of SAHP. Nor does your post, however unnecessarily involved, get at the original question of whether it was ok for someone to say they didn’t want their kids raised by strangers.

You go hiking, biking, your kids tube on the lake behind your house every afternoon at 2 pm while you drive the boat before going to the Metropolitan Museum of Art and discuss El Greco for six hours. We get it. You’re amazing! Tahoe by day, NYC by afternoon. You never go to Costco. You work 190 hours per week at work and get out by 3 pm to pick up your kid from daycare and play laser tag before you coach soccer and you make $280K!

Pretty much except I work 40 hours and my H the same.

It can work if you want it to.

But if you want to SAH and have a absent h and that works for you because he needs to work 190 hours a week to pick up your slack go for it just stop being so defensive about how other families have figured out how to work and be there for their kids.

DP here. Except the problem with your argument is that lots of families with a SAHM have a Dad who is not absent at all, works a 35 hour week and has tons of flexibility to be at events, coach teams, etc. I know many families like this, including ours.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Mom of two teens here with two observations:

1) my kids friends are all really great, smart, well mannered, kind kids. I couldn’t tell you which ones had SAHMs and which ones had WOHMs if I didn’t know their parents (I know many but not all and it’s a mix of both working and non working parents - they all raised awesome kids).


2) this concept of raising your own children is a relatively new phenomenon. Ever heard of the term “it takes a village”? I also have seen some studies that say that working parents now spend significantly more time with their children than stay at home moms did 20-30 years ago. Probably because there isn’t really a village anymore.

Interesting how everyone is just passing by and ignoring this post. As a mom of older ES kids, I agree - all of my children's friends are wonderful kids. Some of them have SAHMs, some of them have two working parents. They're all great kids. If it makes you ladies feel better to put down working moms and tell us we're ruining our children forever, then fine, go ahead, but my kids have turned out great so far, even with a mom who sent them to daycare.

I agree that there are great kids of working parents and great kids of stay at home parents. But the topic isn't about outcomes/how the kids turn out in the end as a result of who raises them. The topic is about who IS actually raising the kids and, although I'd never say this to anyone and think it's totally rude to do so, you can't really argue that parents who both work and whose kids either go to daycare or have a nanny or a grandparent or whoever take care of them are being 100% raised by their parents. They hardly even see their parents. They spend most of their time w/ someone other than their parents. It's just not possible that their parents are the main ones raising them.

Except every parent with kids in school or preschool do this and you are saying only the SAH person is raising their Child, even though the working parent sees the child just as much.

This thread is largely about kids who are not yet school age.

Though also lots of preschools are not full time so are not meant to be full time childcare -- my child attended a half day preschool starting at age 2.5 which was great and helped her get ready for kindergarten. It was 3 hours a day.

And even once you have school age kids... my kid is off today and tomorrow and monday. He's been sick 4 days in the last month due to RSV and a bad cold going around his school. 10 weeks off in summer. Winter break (2 weeks) and spring break (1 week). Random PD days throughout the year. And the kicker -- school ends at 2:30pm.

Even once kids are in school SAHP see their kids a lot more than full time working parents. And I say that as a working parent. You can't deny facts.

He was in school for 3 hours (ours was 4) then he naps for 2 hours in the afternoon, that is 5 of the 8 hours for you (6for me).

So 3 hours (2for me) difference.

The idea is that working moms and sahms have similar hours with their kids is just patently absurd.

It seems absurd until you actually write the hours down and then you realize that the minuscule amount of hours that a SAHP gets with their child versus a working parent is not big enough to justify it as a reason to stay home.

I guess if you cherry pick a SAHP with a very specific schedule this is true? And then a working parent with a very specific schedule? But you are not talking about most people on either side of that equation. You're talking about very unique situations.

Here was my schedule as a SAHP:

6am: up with baby and a few minutes with DH before he left for work at 6:45. If I was lucky I might squeeze a shower in then while he ate breakfast with the baby but usually there was not time because I'd be nursing or DH wouldn't have time to sit that long without missing his train.

7am-8am: toddler up and then I'd feed the toddler while the baby either played or hung out in the carrier. Then we'd all play together on the floor until baby started to get tired.

8am-8:30am: put baby down for a nap while toddler (hopefully) played on her own in her bedroom.

8:30-10am: I'd get the toddler ready for the day and then have her come hang out in my room while I got ready for the day (if I still had to shower she'd have to play on the floor next to the bathroom because she was not old enough to be unattended -- this went okay about 60% of the time). Then I'd clean up the kitchen and maybe take a 10-15 minute break for myself (sometimes using a short video to entertain toddler) and then we'd read books and play until the baby woke up.

10am-12:30pm: This was our outdoors window. Baby would be dressed and fed as soon as she woke up and then we'd be out the door (bag packed during baby's nap) and to the park and playground or the library or whatever. Baby in carrier and toddler in stroller generally but as toddler got older she'd walk more so we'd go slower. Lots of talking to them about what we see and greeting neighbors and answering questions. Sometimes we'd meet other kids and their caregivers. If I was lucky I might get 15-30 minutes at the playground to read if toddler was playing well with another kid and baby was content to sit or snuggle. Usually not.

12:30-1:30pm: Back home for lunch and then dual naps. This was the trickiest part of the day. Kids would not go down at the same time. Usually I'd put the baby down first and then the toddler but if either fought the nap this was hard. If one goes down much later than the other you lose your child-free window. I got it down to a science but then your kids get older and stuff changes. Oh well.

1:30-3pm: Naptime. If baby had a bad night I might also nap during this time but usually it was time to clean up lunch dishes and do some dinner prep. Usually also laundry (I tried to just have laundry going all the time so when I got a break I could fold). I'll note here that we did not have housecleaners or any outsourced help during this time. So I was also picking up toys and vacuuming and whatever to try and save time on the weekends when I deepcleaned. This was also when I'd sit down at my computer and do stuff like research preschools or plan a birthday party or text other parents for playdates or whatever. Call to check on my parents.

3pm-6pm: The hardest part of the day. Kids wake up and then I'd try to get us outside again. Often this would be an errand combined with a playground stop because I'd often need a grocery run or have to drop off an Amazon return or whatever. Hopefully they napped well and were happy. It was a juggle. I tried to be home by 5 and then I'd get dinner ready for them. Toddler might get a few episodes of Bluey (30 minutes max). Then more playing and hang out time.

6-7pm: DH home. I get a break in theory but usually this just means I finished making whatever he and I were eating (variation of toddler's meal but usually a bit more exciting). Shower if it never happened earlier in the day. If very lucky squeeze in a 20 minute workout first but let's get real.

7-7:30pm: Bedtime for kids. I'd nurse the baby while DH read to the toddler and then he'd rock the baby while I tucked the toddler in.

Here is my schedule as a working mom:

morning routine from 6-8am
drop kids off
work 8:30am-5:30pm
pick kids up
Then the 6-8pm routine was same as when I was a SAHP minus the nursing

So uh no -- I spent a lot more time with my kids as a SAHP than I now do as a working mom. They did not get much if any screentime and usually I was doing stuff *for them* if they did get some. They did not spend half the day asleep. By the time my oldest started preschool the younger was a toddler and was down to one nap anyway. I was spending 10 hours a day with them with pretty limited breaks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:+1 for this is typically said in response to some snarky, belittling comment about SAHM's having it easy (and I'm not a SAHM). And then the aggressive (because of their own insecurities about parenting) person is "offended". Can we please stop with this nonsense? This does not need to be such a polarizing issue. You are looking for things to be upset about. Every family is doing what works for them.

This. 9 times out of 10 a SAHP is saying this in response to "ugh WHY would you want to hangout at home all day with CHILDREN? Wouldn't you rather do something productive? I'd be sooooooo booooooored."

You get what you give.