If things get worse for Jewish people

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How much worse it can get? What "worse" are we waiting for?

Speaking at Shura, Weisberg described in graphic detail how one badly charred body turned out to be two victims – a mother and a baby bound together in a deep embrace.

Another victim, he said, was a pregnant woman, her stomach cut open, her fetus pulled out and beheaded. The umbilical cord was still attached.

"When you think about evil, you realize it is beyond comprehension when you see what this terror organization did," the rabbi said.

"I’ve seen things that no one should ever see," said Shari, describing how many of the dead women arrived still wearing their pajamas, their heads blown off and some booby-trapped with grenades.

"We saw evidence of rape," Shari stated. "Pelvises were broken, and it probably takes a lot to break a pelvis… and this was also among grandmothers down to small children. These are things we saw with our own eyes."

We understand that horrible, inhuman, brutal acts were committed against innocent Israeli victims during the terrorist attack. Serious people do not deny this. Anyone who cheers this or thinks it was somehow deserved is a broken, twisted, horrible person.

But I am really not sure why PPs keep rehashing the brutalities of 10/7 here. What's the purpose? These people were victims of a horrible terrorist attack. There have been many horrible terrorist attacks, war crimes, etc. committed against all stripes of people throughout history. It is horrible and it should be condemned. What else are you saying beyond that?

Let me help you understand.
The attack suffered by Israel on 10/7 is why we are where we are. There would be no war in Israel had it not been for this brutal attack. These savages didn't attack the military as a government would do in a legitimate war. No, they went after civilians who had no defense. They went after women and children. They shot them. They beheaded some. They tortured many. They raped some. They burned them alive. They bombed some. And, they baked babies in an oven.
These are not the actions of "normal" people. These are not the actions of people trying to seize land or territory. These are the actions of brutally hateful savages. These are the actions of people that have no right to walk the earth among peace loving people.
I hope people continue to remind you, and others, of the brutality that happened that day. Because so many protests today - even in the US - are in support of Hamas... the brutal savages who carried out these acts. It is the responsibility of people everywhere to continue to remind the world what these savages did and why Israel is forced to take action.
Hope this helps with your understanding.

DP - I have not seen a single protest in the U.S. supportive of Hamas. I am sympathetic of the Israeli victims, but the lies being spread about how everyone who objects to Israel's bombing innocent civilians is a Hamas supporter are ridiculous.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How much worse it can get? What "worse" are we waiting for?

Speaking at Shura, Weisberg described in graphic detail how one badly charred body turned out to be two victims – a mother and a baby bound together in a deep embrace.

Another victim, he said, was a pregnant woman, her stomach cut open, her fetus pulled out and beheaded. The umbilical cord was still attached.

"When you think about evil, you realize it is beyond comprehension when you see what this terror organization did," the rabbi said.

"I’ve seen things that no one should ever see," said Shari, describing how many of the dead women arrived still wearing their pajamas, their heads blown off and some booby-trapped with grenades.

"We saw evidence of rape," Shari stated. "Pelvises were broken, and it probably takes a lot to break a pelvis… and this was also among grandmothers down to small children. These are things we saw with our own eyes."

We understand that horrible, inhuman, brutal acts were committed against innocent Israeli victims during the terrorist attack. Serious people do not deny this. Anyone who cheers this or thinks it was somehow deserved is a broken, twisted, horrible person.

But I am really not sure why PPs keep rehashing the brutalities of 10/7 here. What's the purpose? These people were victims of a horrible terrorist attack. There have been many horrible terrorist attacks, war crimes, etc. committed against all stripes of people throughout history. It is horrible and it should be condemned. What else are you saying beyond that?

Let me help you understand.
The attack suffered by Israel on 10/7 is why we are where we are. There would be no war in Israel had it not been for this brutal attack. These savages didn't attack the military as a government would do in a legitimate war. No, they went after civilians who had no defense. They went after women and children. They shot them. They beheaded some. They tortured many. They raped some. They burned them alive. They bombed some. And, they baked babies in an oven.
These are not the actions of "normal" people. These are not the actions of people trying to seize land or territory. These are the actions of brutally hateful savages. These are the actions of people that have no right to walk the earth among peace loving people.
I hope people continue to remind you, and others, of the brutality that happened that day. Because so many protests today - even in the US - are in support of Hamas... the brutal savages who carried out these acts. It is the responsibility of people everywhere to continue to remind the world what these savages did and why Israel is forced to take action.
Hope this helps with your understanding.

PP here. Sorry, I disagree with you. I take your point and also think it is possible to disagree with (and I do disagree with, and condemn) the actions that the Israeli government has taken since 10/7. It's a disproportionate response, it's an illegal and immoral response, and frankly it's a bad policy response. They are going to create another generation of terrorists and people who hate Israel. And this violence will not end.

Israel is a sovereign government. It's not "forced" to do anything and it has the legal and moral obligation to follow international law. It does not, in my opinion, get a pass on this obligation because 1,400 of its citizens were victims of a brutal terrorist attack. And it long-ago abdicated this obligation. And I will continue to say and believe that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:See PP as an example. In two to three generations when the Bidens and the Hilary Clintons are no longer here and AOC has power then what happens? And for all the arguments anti semitism is not anti Zionisism we have seen an outpouring of hate for Jewish people. I don’t fear for myself but I worry about a future in the US for my Jewish children.

I'm the PP you're referring to (I think); the one who believes that U.S. government policy should not be to blindly support the state of Israel. I am not antisemitic and I don't hate Jews (far from it) or think that they should be held personally responsible for the actions of the Israeli government.

I'm not sure why you think the fact that many of us do not believe the USG should unconditionally support Israel means you should worry about a future in the U.S. for your Jewish children. Seriously failing to see the logical connection there.

In other words, you think we should let the terrorists win, because that is what would happen. I’m sure you believe there would be some magical transformation to a Palestinian government based on peace, love, and understanding, but we don’t live in that world.

The terrorists haven't won. And committing (or as the U.S. is doing, funding and being complicit in) war crimes against the Palestinian civilian population is only going to create more terrorists. It's short sighted in the extreme, in addition to being immoral and bad optics.

Are Egypt and Jordan complicit for not opening their borders? Are other nearby countries complicit for not evacuating Palestinians and accepting them as refugees?

Egypt and Jordan and other countries are not my concern. That's a deflection and a red herring. The IDF is indiscriminately and purposely bombing civilians, including thousands of children, and the U.S. is providing funding, direct military aid, and political/diplomatic cover for this. As a U.S. citizen, I'm focused on my government, the policies of the administration I voted for, and what my taxpayer dollars are supporting.

No, they are not. Their actions are very much targeted to take out the terrorists who have no right to walk the earth.
It is abundantly clear that you have no military training and have no understanding of war time strategies.

Considering that none of us know what is happening in their control room, let alone what buildings are being hit, it is abundantly clear that you are talking out of your ass.

You trust the IDF the other poster does not. Since there are very few journalists or impartial observers there is no way of knowing either way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:See PP as an example. In two to three generations when the Bidens and the Hilary Clintons are no longer here and AOC has power then what happens? And for all the arguments anti semitism is not anti Zionisism we have seen an outpouring of hate for Jewish people. I don’t fear for myself but I worry about a future in the US for my Jewish children.

I'm the PP you're referring to (I think); the one who believes that U.S. government policy should not be to blindly support the state of Israel. I am not antisemitic and I don't hate Jews (far from it) or think that they should be held personally responsible for the actions of the Israeli government.

I'm not sure why you think the fact that many of us do not believe the USG should unconditionally support Israel means you should worry about a future in the U.S. for your Jewish children. Seriously failing to see the logical connection there.

In other words, you think we should let the terrorists win, because that is what would happen. I’m sure you believe there would be some magical transformation to a Palestinian government based on peace, love, and understanding, but we don’t live in that world.

The terrorists haven't won. And committing (or as the U.S. is doing, funding and being complicit in) war crimes against the Palestinian civilian population is only going to create more terrorists. It's short sighted in the extreme, in addition to being immoral and bad optics.

Are Egypt and Jordan complicit for not opening their borders? Are other nearby countries complicit for not evacuating Palestinians and accepting them as refugees?

Egypt and Jordan and other countries are not my concern. That's a deflection and a red herring. The IDF is indiscriminately and purposely bombing civilians, including thousands of children, and the U.S. is providing funding, direct military aid, and political/diplomatic cover for this. As a U.S. citizen, I'm focused on my government, the policies of the administration I voted for, and what my taxpayer dollars are supporting.

No, they are not. Their actions are very much targeted to take out the terrorists who have no right to walk the earth.
It is abundantly clear that you have no military training and have no understanding of war time strategies.

You're calling the 3000 Palestinian children killed terrorists? That's beyond belief.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How much worse it can get? What "worse" are we waiting for?

Speaking at Shura, Weisberg described in graphic detail how one badly charred body turned out to be two victims – a mother and a baby bound together in a deep embrace.

Another victim, he said, was a pregnant woman, her stomach cut open, her fetus pulled out and beheaded. The umbilical cord was still attached.

"When you think about evil, you realize it is beyond comprehension when you see what this terror organization did," the rabbi said.

"I’ve seen things that no one should ever see," said Shari, describing how many of the dead women arrived still wearing their pajamas, their heads blown off and some booby-trapped with grenades.

"We saw evidence of rape," Shari stated. "Pelvises were broken, and it probably takes a lot to break a pelvis… and this was also among grandmothers down to small children. These are things we saw with our own eyes."

We understand that horrible, inhuman, brutal acts were committed against innocent Israeli victims during the terrorist attack. Serious people do not deny this. Anyone who cheers this or thinks it was somehow deserved is a broken, twisted, horrible person.

But I am really not sure why PPs keep rehashing the brutalities of 10/7 here. What's the purpose? These people were victims of a horrible terrorist attack. There have been many horrible terrorist attacks, war crimes, etc. committed against all stripes of people throughout history. It is horrible and it should be condemned. What else are you saying beyond that?

Let me help you understand.
The attack suffered by Israel on 10/7 is why we are where we are. There would be no war in Israel had it not been for this brutal attack. These savages didn't attack the military as a government would do in a legitimate war. No, they went after civilians who had no defense. They went after women and children. They shot them. They beheaded some. They tortured many. They raped some. They burned them alive. They bombed some. And, they baked babies in an oven.
These are not the actions of "normal" people. These are not the actions of people trying to seize land or territory. These are the actions of brutally hateful savages. These are the actions of people that have no right to walk the earth among peace loving people.
I hope people continue to remind you, and others, of the brutality that happened that day. Because so many protests today - even in the US - are in support of Hamas... the brutal savages who carried out these acts. It is the responsibility of people everywhere to continue to remind the world what these savages did and why Israel is forced to take action.
Hope this helps with your understanding.

PP here. Sorry, I disagree with you. I take your point and also think it is possible to disagree with (and I do disagree with, and condemn) the actions that the Israeli government has taken since 10/7. It's a disproportionate response, it's an illegal and immoral response, and frankly it's a bad policy response. They are going to create another generation of terrorists and people who hate Israel. And this violence will not end.

Israel is a sovereign government. It's not "forced" to do anything and it has the legal and moral obligation to follow international law. It does not, in my opinion, get a pass on this obligation because 1,400 of its citizens were victims of a brutal terrorist attack. And it long-ago abdicated this obligation. And I will continue to say and believe that.

PP here. And, I respectfully disagree with you.
There is no way - none at all - for Israel to continue to survive with brutal terrorists living just miles away. They cannot risk another attack like the one on 10/7. Thousands of terrorists came into a sovereign country, brutally attacked civilians, and *now* people are calling for a ceasefire? The only ones who win in a ceasefire is Hamas.
And, they are following international law. They have told Palestinians to go south. They are focuing on northern Gaza. Too bad the Israelis were given no warning before the terrorists had their way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:See PP as an example. In two to three generations when the Bidens and the Hilary Clintons are no longer here and AOC has power then what happens? And for all the arguments anti semitism is not anti Zionisism we have seen an outpouring of hate for Jewish people. I don’t fear for myself but I worry about a future in the US for my Jewish children.

I'm the PP you're referring to (I think); the one who believes that U.S. government policy should not be to blindly support the state of Israel. I am not antisemitic and I don't hate Jews (far from it) or think that they should be held personally responsible for the actions of the Israeli government.

I'm not sure why you think the fact that many of us do not believe the USG should unconditionally support Israel means you should worry about a future in the U.S. for your Jewish children. Seriously failing to see the logical connection there.

In other words, you think we should let the terrorists win, because that is what would happen. I’m sure you believe there would be some magical transformation to a Palestinian government based on peace, love, and understanding, but we don’t live in that world.

The terrorists haven't won. And committing (or as the U.S. is doing, funding and being complicit in) war crimes against the Palestinian civilian population is only going to create more terrorists. It's short sighted in the extreme, in addition to being immoral and bad optics.

Are Egypt and Jordan complicit for not opening their borders? Are other nearby countries complicit for not evacuating Palestinians and accepting them as refugees?

Egypt and Jordan and other countries are not my concern. That's a deflection and a red herring. The IDF is indiscriminately and purposely bombing civilians, including thousands of children, and the U.S. is providing funding, direct military aid, and political/diplomatic cover for this. As a U.S. citizen, I'm focused on my government, the policies of the administration I voted for, and what my taxpayer dollars are supporting.

No, they are not. Their actions are very much targeted to take out the terrorists who have no right to walk the earth.
It is abundantly clear that you have no military training and have no understanding of war time strategies.

You're calling the 3000 Palestinian children killed terrorists? That's beyond belief.

Oh, please. Civilians... and children... are always going to be a casualty of war. Especially when your enemy uses them as shields.
It's really sad that Hamas decided to start this war.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:See PP as an example. In two to three generations when the Bidens and the Hilary Clintons are no longer here and AOC has power then what happens? And for all the arguments anti semitism is not anti Zionisism we have seen an outpouring of hate for Jewish people. I don’t fear for myself but I worry about a future in the US for my Jewish children.

I'm the PP you're referring to (I think); the one who believes that U.S. government policy should not be to blindly support the state of Israel. I am not antisemitic and I don't hate Jews (far from it) or think that they should be held personally responsible for the actions of the Israeli government.

I'm not sure why you think the fact that many of us do not believe the USG should unconditionally support Israel means you should worry about a future in the U.S. for your Jewish children. Seriously failing to see the logical connection there.

In other words, you think we should let the terrorists win, because that is what would happen. I’m sure you believe there would be some magical transformation to a Palestinian government based on peace, love, and understanding, but we don’t live in that world.

The terrorists haven't won. And committing (or as the U.S. is doing, funding and being complicit in) war crimes against the Palestinian civilian population is only going to create more terrorists. It's short sighted in the extreme, in addition to being immoral and bad optics.

Are Egypt and Jordan complicit for not opening their borders? Are other nearby countries complicit for not evacuating Palestinians and accepting them as refugees?

Egypt and Jordan and other countries are not my concern. That's a deflection and a red herring. The IDF is indiscriminately and purposely bombing civilians, including thousands of children, and the U.S. is providing funding, direct military aid, and political/diplomatic cover for this. As a U.S. citizen, I'm focused on my government, the policies of the administration I voted for, and what my taxpayer dollars are supporting.

No, they are not. Their actions are very much targeted to take out the terrorists who have no right to walk the earth.
It is abundantly clear that you have no military training and have no understanding of war time strategies.

You're calling the 3000 Palestinian children killed terrorists? That's beyond belief.

Oh, please. Civilians... and children... are always going to be a casualty of war. Especially when your enemy uses them as shields.
It's really sad that Hamas decided to start this war.

I am disgusted by the unnecessary suffering
There is a lot that could be easily done to alleviate this
That is the tragedy

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How much worse it can get? What "worse" are we waiting for?

Speaking at Shura, Weisberg described in graphic detail how one badly charred body turned out to be two victims – a mother and a baby bound together in a deep embrace.

Another victim, he said, was a pregnant woman, her stomach cut open, her fetus pulled out and beheaded. The umbilical cord was still attached.

"When you think about evil, you realize it is beyond comprehension when you see what this terror organization did," the rabbi said.

"I’ve seen things that no one should ever see," said Shari, describing how many of the dead women arrived still wearing their pajamas, their heads blown off and some booby-trapped with grenades.

"We saw evidence of rape," Shari stated. "Pelvises were broken, and it probably takes a lot to break a pelvis… and this was also among grandmothers down to small children. These are things we saw with our own eyes."

We understand that horrible, inhuman, brutal acts were committed against innocent Israeli victims during the terrorist attack. Serious people do not deny this. Anyone who cheers this or thinks it was somehow deserved is a broken, twisted, horrible person.

But I am really not sure why PPs keep rehashing the brutalities of 10/7 here. What's the purpose? These people were victims of a horrible terrorist attack. There have been many horrible terrorist attacks, war crimes, etc. committed against all stripes of people throughout history. It is horrible and it should be condemned. What else are you saying beyond that?

Let me help you understand.
The attack suffered by Israel on 10/7 is why we are where we are. There would be no war in Israel had it not been for this brutal attack. These savages didn't attack the military as a government would do in a legitimate war. No, they went after civilians who had no defense. They went after women and children. They shot them. They beheaded some. They tortured many. They raped some. They burned them alive. They bombed some. And, they baked babies in an oven.
These are not the actions of "normal" people. These are not the actions of people trying to seize land or territory. These are the actions of brutally hateful savages. These are the actions of people that have no right to walk the earth among peace loving people.
I hope people continue to remind you, and others, of the brutality that happened that day. Because so many protests today - even in the US - are in support of Hamas... the brutal savages who carried out these acts. It is the responsibility of people everywhere to continue to remind the world what these savages did and why Israel is forced to take action.
Hope this helps with your understanding.

This is exactly what you genocidal colonists want us to do - to focus on only your trauma, your grief, your pain and to dehumanize your victims in order to justify the maniacal horror you will inflict on them.

You focus only on October 7 as though the world began on that day and:

Not one word from you about Israel's brutal oppression, murder, and dispossession of the Palestinian people over the last 75 years.

Not one word about the FACT that Israel has blockaded Gaza by land, sea, and air for the last 20 years, only allowing in enough calories per Gazan to prevent starvation and not one calorie more.

Not one word about the IDF-sponsored murder and torture of Palestinians and land theft in the West Bank where there is no Hamas.

Not one word about the 3500 Palestinian children and 1000 buried under rubble due to Israel's indiscriminate carpet bombing of Gaza.

Not one word about the FACT that Netanyahu gave financial and political support to Hamas in order to destabilize any attempts to establish a functional state. Netanyahu is the biggest Hamas lover of all who IGNORED intelligence warnings about the 10/7 attacks and didn't send help to besieged Israelis for SIX hours. Netanyahu is the biggest Hamas lover of all - anything to say about that?

And how exactly will dropping a Hiroshima-load of bombs on Gaza keep the hostages safe? The IRA was arguably using the Irish as human shields - gee, shouldn't England have besieged and carpet-bombed Ireland?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How much worse it can get? What "worse" are we waiting for?

Speaking at Shura, Weisberg described in graphic detail how one badly charred body turned out to be two victims – a mother and a baby bound together in a deep embrace.

Another victim, he said, was a pregnant woman, her stomach cut open, her fetus pulled out and beheaded. The umbilical cord was still attached.

"When you think about evil, you realize it is beyond comprehension when you see what this terror organization did," the rabbi said.

"I’ve seen things that no one should ever see," said Shari, describing how many of the dead women arrived still wearing their pajamas, their heads blown off and some booby-trapped with grenades.

"We saw evidence of rape," Shari stated. "Pelvises were broken, and it probably takes a lot to break a pelvis… and this was also among grandmothers down to small children. These are things we saw with our own eyes."

We understand that horrible, inhuman, brutal acts were committed against innocent Israeli victims during the terrorist attack. Serious people do not deny this. Anyone who cheers this or thinks it was somehow deserved is a broken, twisted, horrible person.

But I am really not sure why PPs keep rehashing the brutalities of 10/7 here. What's the purpose? These people were victims of a horrible terrorist attack. There have been many horrible terrorist attacks, war crimes, etc. committed against all stripes of people throughout history. It is horrible and it should be condemned. What else are you saying beyond that?

Let me help you understand.
The attack suffered by Israel on 10/7 is why we are where we are. There would be no war in Israel had it not been for this brutal attack. These savages didn't attack the military as a government would do in a legitimate war. No, they went after civilians who had no defense. They went after women and children. They shot them. They beheaded some. They tortured many. They raped some. They burned them alive. They bombed some. And, they baked babies in an oven.
These are not the actions of "normal" people. These are not the actions of people trying to seize land or territory. These are the actions of brutally hateful savages. These are the actions of people that have no right to walk the earth among peace loving people.
I hope people continue to remind you, and others, of the brutality that happened that day. Because so many protests today - even in the US - are in support of Hamas... the brutal savages who carried out these acts. It is the responsibility of people everywhere to continue to remind the world what these savages did and why Israel is forced to take action.
Hope this helps with your understanding.

DP - I have not seen a single protest in the U.S. supportive of Hamas. I am sympathetic of the Israeli victims, but the lies being spread about how everyone who objects to Israel's bombing innocent civilians is a Hamas supporter are ridiculous.

Let me help you:

GW — glory to the martyrs— https://www.newsweek.com/george-washington-university-pro-palestinian-message-outrage-1837735

Cornell professor said he was exhilarated by the Hamas attacks — https://cornellsun.com/2023/10/16/cornell-professor-exhilarated-by-hamass-attack-defends-remark/

Online threats at Cornell — https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna122735

Calls for the elimination of Israel in NYC — https://nypost.com/2023/10/28/metro/9k-pro-palestinian-protestors-take-over-brooklyn-bridge-call-for-elimination-of-jewish-state-by-any-means/amp/

Also in NYC, chants of “globalize the intifada” and protestors chanting the number of Israeli fatalities in the fighting, while making throat slitting gestures at pro-Israeli people holding a vigil — https://www.timesofisrael.com/pro-palestinians-celebrate-hamas-attack-as-israel-supporters-rally-in-new-york/amp/

“Keep the world clean” signs that have been used at neo-Nazi rallies — https://twitter.com/stopantisemites/status/1718622852017000675?s=46

All of this goes well beyond wanting to protect civilians from bombs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Has anyone had this thought. If this is really what the younger generation is like would Jewish people even have support in the US in two to three generation. Easy to scoff at these college students but they are technically the leaders of tomorrow.

I'm a millennial who is pro-Palestine and not particularly supportive of the Israeli government (certainly not this one) and absolutely think the United States should dial back its political and financial support to the state of Israel. And I will vote for it, to the extent that I have a choice (not in 2024, obviously).

I'm not sure what your comment means. I have no problem with Jewish people as a whole, and to the extent that anyone is antisemitic or Jewish people are victims of hate speech/crimes, I totally condemn that and believe that should be prosecuted. I don't think advocating for the withdrawal of U.S. support to the state of Israel, as a consistent part of U.S. foreign policy, is baseline antisemitic. Perhaps some people advocate that for antisemitic reasons, but I just think it is bad foreign policy.

If you conflate those two things, than we have a fundamental disagreement on worldview. That's not my issue to solve.

Surely you understand that stateless nations are problematic for everyone. Look at the Kurds. They are a nation that has no official state. This has caused them to be attacked, famously with chemical weapons. They are also attackers, historically using terrorism for political violence. Right now, Israelis have a state. And, they have agreed to allow the state of Palestine to operate independently on land that officially belongs to Israel. Israel even foots the bill for all utilities that Palestine uses.

Why isn't this enough? Surely you understand that kicking Israelis out and leaving them stateless would harm all involved. Palestine has practically no governance and Israel has to take care of the people in Palestine. If we say, okay, let's kick out all the Jews and cede all of Israel to a terrorist organization, how do you think that will turn out? And what we would do about the nuclear bombs that Israel has? Turn that over to hamas, too? The so-called pro Palestine movement will be a bit like the dog that caught the car. This is not an outcome that will help actual Palestinians.

I agree that stateless nations are a problem for everyone. I also believe that the existence of the current Israel/Palestine situation is a problem for everyone (see, e.g. the current conflict - a major humanitarian problem for Gaza, potentially a regional conflict, and a major optics problem for the U.S., whose patron state is committing war crimes that we are, for some reason, defending in public).

The U.S. protecting this status quo through its policy of "support for Israel" (in its current form), is in my opinion bad policy. Either we need to (1) put our money where our mouth is and forcefully advocate for/broker a legitimate two-state solution in which Palestine is a real state with full control and sovereignty over its land, which would also require massive foreign aid to build out infrastructure and institutions so that it actually can be a functioning state; or (2) put enormous pressure on Israel to absorb Palestinians into the country as full, voting citizens with rights, who are treated well, educated properly, and supported in every way by the state. That might mean that Israel is no longer an ethnoreligious state but a multiethnic democracy. It can be done. And, while I hear the arguments that the Jewish people should have their own state, I don't think that is possible or good policy when it comes at the expense of subjugating a population of 2 million Palestinians.

Obviously these options aren't simple. There are a ton of issues to work out, and I realize that neither side is solely a victim or solely an aggressor, and obviously at this point they hate each other. I think either would eventually be preferable to what is going on right now, and I really hate that the U.S.'s policy is to blindly support the Israeli government as though they can do no wrong. It is bad policy for the American people.

Please educate yourself on the history of the region.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How much worse it can get? What "worse" are we waiting for?

Speaking at Shura, Weisberg described in graphic detail how one badly charred body turned out to be two victims – a mother and a baby bound together in a deep embrace.

Another victim, he said, was a pregnant woman, her stomach cut open, her fetus pulled out and beheaded. The umbilical cord was still attached.

"When you think about evil, you realize it is beyond comprehension when you see what this terror organization did," the rabbi said.

"I’ve seen things that no one should ever see," said Shari, describing how many of the dead women arrived still wearing their pajamas, their heads blown off and some booby-trapped with grenades.

"We saw evidence of rape," Shari stated. "Pelvises were broken, and it probably takes a lot to break a pelvis… and this was also among grandmothers down to small children. These are things we saw with our own eyes."

We understand that horrible, inhuman, brutal acts were committed against innocent Israeli victims during the terrorist attack. Serious people do not deny this. Anyone who cheers this or thinks it was somehow deserved is a broken, twisted, horrible person.

But I am really not sure why PPs keep rehashing the brutalities of 10/7 here. What's the purpose? These people were victims of a horrible terrorist attack. There have been many horrible terrorist attacks, war crimes, etc. committed against all stripes of people throughout history. It is horrible and it should be condemned. What else are you saying beyond that?

Let me help you understand.
The attack suffered by Israel on 10/7 is why we are where we are. There would be no war in Israel had it not been for this brutal attack. These savages didn't attack the military as a government would do in a legitimate war. No, they went after civilians who had no defense. They went after women and children. They shot them. They beheaded some. They tortured many. They raped some. They burned them alive. They bombed some. And, they baked babies in an oven.
These are not the actions of "normal" people. These are not the actions of people trying to seize land or territory. These are the actions of brutally hateful savages. These are the actions of people that have no right to walk the earth among peace loving people.
I hope people continue to remind you, and others, of the brutality that happened that day. Because so many protests today - even in the US - are in support of Hamas... the brutal savages who carried out these acts. It is the responsibility of people everywhere to continue to remind the world what these savages did and why Israel is forced to take action.
Hope this helps with your understanding.

This is exactly what you genocidal colonists want us to do - to focus on only your trauma, your grief, your pain and to dehumanize your victims in order to justify the maniacal horror you will inflict on them.

You focus only on October 7 as though the world began on that day and:

Not one word from you about Israel's brutal oppression, murder, and dispossession of the Palestinian people over the last 75 years.

Not one word about the FACT that Israel has blockaded Gaza by land, sea, and air for the last 20 years, only allowing in enough calories per Gazan to prevent starvation and not one calorie more.

Not one word about the IDF-sponsored murder and torture of Palestinians and land theft in the West Bank where there is no Hamas.

Not one word about the 3500 Palestinian children and 1000 buried under rubble due to Israel's indiscriminate carpet bombing of Gaza.

Not one word about the FACT that Netanyahu gave financial and political support to Hamas in order to destabilize any attempts to establish a functional state. Netanyahu is the biggest Hamas lover of all who IGNORED intelligence warnings about the 10/7 attacks and didn't send help to besieged Israelis for SIX hours. Netanyahu is the biggest Hamas lover of all - anything to say about that?

And how exactly will dropping a Hiroshima-load of bombs on Gaza keep the hostages safe? The IRA was arguably using the Irish as human shields - gee, shouldn't England have besieged and carpet-bombed Ireland?

You lie about Hamas not being in the West Bank.

https://www.dni.gov/nctc/groups/hamas.html#:~:text=HAMAS'%20strength%20is%20concentrated%20in,Palestinian%20territories%20since%20the%201990s.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Has anyone had this thought. If this is really what the younger generation is like would Jewish people even have support in the US in two to three generation. Easy to scoff at these college students but they are technically the leaders of tomorrow.

I'm a millennial who is pro-Palestine and not particularly supportive of the Israeli government (certainly not this one) and absolutely think the United States should dial back its political and financial support to the state of Israel. And I will vote for it, to the extent that I have a choice (not in 2024, obviously).

I'm not sure what your comment means. I have no problem with Jewish people as a whole, and to the extent that anyone is antisemitic or Jewish people are victims of hate speech/crimes, I totally condemn that and believe that should be prosecuted. I don't think advocating for the withdrawal of U.S. support to the state of Israel, as a consistent part of U.S. foreign policy, is baseline antisemitic. Perhaps some people advocate that for antisemitic reasons, but I just think it is bad foreign policy.

If you conflate those two things, than we have a fundamental disagreement on worldview. That's not my issue to solve.

Surely you understand that stateless nations are problematic for everyone. Look at the Kurds. They are a nation that has no official state. This has caused them to be attacked, famously with chemical weapons. They are also attackers, historically using terrorism for political violence. Right now, Israelis have a state. And, they have agreed to allow the state of Palestine to operate independently on land that officially belongs to Israel. Israel even foots the bill for all utilities that Palestine uses.

Why isn't this enough? Surely you understand that kicking Israelis out and leaving them stateless would harm all involved. Palestine has practically no governance and Israel has to take care of the people in Palestine. If we say, okay, let's kick out all the Jews and cede all of Israel to a terrorist organization, how do you think that will turn out? And what we would do about the nuclear bombs that Israel has? Turn that over to hamas, too? The so-called pro Palestine movement will be a bit like the dog that caught the car. This is not an outcome that will help actual Palestinians.

I agree that stateless nations are a problem for everyone. I also believe that the existence of the current Israel/Palestine situation is a problem for everyone (see, e.g. the current conflict - a major humanitarian problem for Gaza, potentially a regional conflict, and a major optics problem for the U.S., whose patron state is committing war crimes that we are, for some reason, defending in public).

The U.S. protecting this status quo through its policy of "support for Israel" (in its current form), is in my opinion bad policy. Either we need to (1) put our money where our mouth is and forcefully advocate for/broker a legitimate two-state solution in which Palestine is a real state with full control and sovereignty over its land, which would also require massive foreign aid to build out infrastructure and institutions so that it actually can be a functioning state; or (2) put enormous pressure on Israel to absorb Palestinians into the country as full, voting citizens with rights, who are treated well, educated properly, and supported in every way by the state. That might mean that Israel is no longer an ethnoreligious state but a multiethnic democracy. It can be done. And, while I hear the arguments that the Jewish people should have their own state, I don't think that is possible or good policy when it comes at the expense of subjugating a population of 2 million Palestinians.

Obviously these options aren't simple. There are a ton of issues to work out, and I realize that neither side is solely a victim or solely an aggressor, and obviously at this point they hate each other. I think either would eventually be preferable to what is going on right now, and I really hate that the U.S.'s policy is to blindly support the Israeli government as though they can do no wrong. It is bad policy for the American people.

Please educate yourself on the history of the region.

I have. And I still disagree with your apparent point that the status quo is the only possible way to handle this issue.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How much worse it can get? What "worse" are we waiting for?

Speaking at Shura, Weisberg described in graphic detail how one badly charred body turned out to be two victims – a mother and a baby bound together in a deep embrace.

Another victim, he said, was a pregnant woman, her stomach cut open, her fetus pulled out and beheaded. The umbilical cord was still attached.

"When you think about evil, you realize it is beyond comprehension when you see what this terror organization did," the rabbi said.

"I’ve seen things that no one should ever see," said Shari, describing how many of the dead women arrived still wearing their pajamas, their heads blown off and some booby-trapped with grenades.

"We saw evidence of rape," Shari stated. "Pelvises were broken, and it probably takes a lot to break a pelvis… and this was also among grandmothers down to small children. These are things we saw with our own eyes."

We understand that horrible, inhuman, brutal acts were committed against innocent Israeli victims during the terrorist attack. Serious people do not deny this. Anyone who cheers this or thinks it was somehow deserved is a broken, twisted, horrible person.

But I am really not sure why PPs keep rehashing the brutalities of 10/7 here. What's the purpose? These people were victims of a horrible terrorist attack. There have been many horrible terrorist attacks, war crimes, etc. committed against all stripes of people throughout history. It is horrible and it should be condemned. What else are you saying beyond that?

Let me help you understand.
The attack suffered by Israel on 10/7 is why we are where we are. There would be no war in Israel had it not been for this brutal attack. These savages didn't attack the military as a government would do in a legitimate war. No, they went after civilians who had no defense. They went after women and children. They shot them. They beheaded some. They tortured many. They raped some. They burned them alive. They bombed some. And, they baked babies in an oven.
These are not the actions of "normal" people. These are not the actions of people trying to seize land or territory. These are the actions of brutally hateful savages. These are the actions of people that have no right to walk the earth among peace loving people.
I hope people continue to remind you, and others, of the brutality that happened that day. Because so many protests today - even in the US - are in support of Hamas... the brutal savages who carried out these acts. It is the responsibility of people everywhere to continue to remind the world what these savages did and why Israel is forced to take action.
Hope this helps with your understanding.

This is exactly what you genocidal colonists want us to do - to focus on only your trauma, your grief, your pain and to dehumanize your victims in order to justify the maniacal horror you will inflict on them.

You focus only on October 7 as though the world began on that day and:

Not one word from you about Israel's brutal oppression, murder, and dispossession of the Palestinian people over the last 75 years.

Not one word about the FACT that Israel has blockaded Gaza by land, sea, and air for the last 20 years, only allowing in enough calories per Gazan to prevent starvation and not one calorie more.

Not one word about the IDF-sponsored murder and torture of Palestinians and land theft in the West Bank where there is no Hamas.

Not one word about the 3500 Palestinian children and 1000 buried under rubble due to Israel's indiscriminate carpet bombing of Gaza.

Not one word about the FACT that Netanyahu gave financial and political support to Hamas in order to destabilize any attempts to establish a functional state. Netanyahu is the biggest Hamas lover of all who IGNORED intelligence warnings about the 10/7 attacks and didn't send help to besieged Israelis for SIX hours. Netanyahu is the biggest Hamas lover of all - anything to say about that?

And how exactly will dropping a Hiroshima-load of bombs on Gaza keep the hostages safe? The IRA was arguably using the Irish as human shields - gee, shouldn't England have besieged and carpet-bombed Ireland?

You lie about Hamas not being in the West Bank.

https://www.dni.gov/nctc/groups/hamas.html#:~:text=HAMAS'%20strength%20is%20concentrated%20in,Palestinian%20territories%20since%20the%201990s.

PP lied about a lot in her post. No use in providing her with facts or reasoning. She is determined to think the way she thinks. Facts will not change her mind.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How much worse it can get? What "worse" are we waiting for?

Speaking at Shura, Weisberg described in graphic detail how one badly charred body turned out to be two victims – a mother and a baby bound together in a deep embrace.

Another victim, he said, was a pregnant woman, her stomach cut open, her fetus pulled out and beheaded. The umbilical cord was still attached.

"When you think about evil, you realize it is beyond comprehension when you see what this terror organization did," the rabbi said.

"I’ve seen things that no one should ever see," said Shari, describing how many of the dead women arrived still wearing their pajamas, their heads blown off and some booby-trapped with grenades.

"We saw evidence of rape," Shari stated. "Pelvises were broken, and it probably takes a lot to break a pelvis… and this was also among grandmothers down to small children. These are things we saw with our own eyes."

We understand that horrible, inhuman, brutal acts were committed against innocent Israeli victims during the terrorist attack. Serious people do not deny this. Anyone who cheers this or thinks it was somehow deserved is a broken, twisted, horrible person.

But I am really not sure why PPs keep rehashing the brutalities of 10/7 here. What's the purpose? These people were victims of a horrible terrorist attack. There have been many horrible terrorist attacks, war crimes, etc. committed against all stripes of people throughout history. It is horrible and it should be condemned. What else are you saying beyond that?

Let me help you understand.
The attack suffered by Israel on 10/7 is why we are where we are. There would be no war in Israel had it not been for this brutal attack. These savages didn't attack the military as a government would do in a legitimate war. No, they went after civilians who had no defense. They went after women and children. They shot them. They beheaded some. They tortured many. They raped some. They burned them alive. They bombed some. And, they baked babies in an oven.
These are not the actions of "normal" people. These are not the actions of people trying to seize land or territory. These are the actions of brutally hateful savages. These are the actions of people that have no right to walk the earth among peace loving people.
I hope people continue to remind you, and others, of the brutality that happened that day. Because so many protests today - even in the US - are in support of Hamas... the brutal savages who carried out these acts. It is the responsibility of people everywhere to continue to remind the world what these savages did and why Israel is forced to take action.
Hope this helps with your understanding.

This is exactly what you genocidal colonists want us to do - to focus on only your trauma, your grief, your pain and to dehumanize your victims in order to justify the maniacal horror you will inflict on them.

You focus only on October 7 as though the world began on that day and:

Not one word from you about Israel's brutal oppression, murder, and dispossession of the Palestinian people over the last 75 years.

Not one word about the FACT that Israel has blockaded Gaza by land, sea, and air for the last 20 years, only allowing in enough calories per Gazan to prevent starvation and not one calorie more.

Not one word about the IDF-sponsored murder and torture of Palestinians and land theft in the West Bank where there is no Hamas.

Not one word about the 3500 Palestinian children and 1000 buried under rubble due to Israel's indiscriminate carpet bombing of Gaza.

Not one word about the FACT that Netanyahu gave financial and political support to Hamas in order to destabilize any attempts to establish a functional state. Netanyahu is the biggest Hamas lover of all who IGNORED intelligence warnings about the 10/7 attacks and didn't send help to besieged Israelis for SIX hours. Netanyahu is the biggest Hamas lover of all - anything to say about that?

And how exactly will dropping a Hiroshima-load of bombs on Gaza keep the hostages safe? The IRA was arguably using the Irish as human shields - gee, shouldn't England have besieged and carpet-bombed Ireland?

You lie about Hamas not being in the West Bank.

https://www.dni.gov/nctc/groups/hamas.html#:~:text=HAMAS'%20strength%20is%20concentrated%20in,Palestinian%20territories%20since%20the%201990s.

PP here. The post you're responding to uses some rhetoric I disagree with, but you've responded to none of the substantive points it makes. Do you have a response?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Has anyone had this thought. If this is really what the younger generation is like would Jewish people even have support in the US in two to three generation. Easy to scoff at these college students but they are technically the leaders of tomorrow.

I'm a millennial who is pro-Palestine and not particularly supportive of the Israeli government (certainly not this one) and absolutely think the United States should dial back its political and financial support to the state of Israel. And I will vote for it, to the extent that I have a choice (not in 2024, obviously).

I'm not sure what your comment means. I have no problem with Jewish people as a whole, and to the extent that anyone is antisemitic or Jewish people are victims of hate speech/crimes, I totally condemn that and believe that should be prosecuted. I don't think advocating for the withdrawal of U.S. support to the state of Israel, as a consistent part of U.S. foreign policy, is baseline antisemitic. Perhaps some people advocate that for antisemitic reasons, but I just think it is bad foreign policy.

If you conflate those two things, than we have a fundamental disagreement on worldview. That's not my issue to solve.

Surely you understand that stateless nations are problematic for everyone. Look at the Kurds. They are a nation that has no official state. This has caused them to be attacked, famously with chemical weapons. They are also attackers, historically using terrorism for political violence. Right now, Israelis have a state. And, they have agreed to allow the state of Palestine to operate independently on land that officially belongs to Israel. Israel even foots the bill for all utilities that Palestine uses.

Why isn't this enough? Surely you understand that kicking Israelis out and leaving them stateless would harm all involved. Palestine has practically no governance and Israel has to take care of the people in Palestine. If we say, okay, let's kick out all the Jews and cede all of Israel to a terrorist organization, how do you think that will turn out? And what we would do about the nuclear bombs that Israel has? Turn that over to hamas, too? The so-called pro Palestine movement will be a bit like the dog that caught the car. This is not an outcome that will help actual Palestinians.

I agree that stateless nations are a problem for everyone. I also believe that the existence of the current Israel/Palestine situation is a problem for everyone (see, e.g. the current conflict - a major humanitarian problem for Gaza, potentially a regional conflict, and a major optics problem for the U.S., whose patron state is committing war crimes that we are, for some reason, defending in public).

The U.S. protecting this status quo through its policy of "support for Israel" (in its current form), is in my opinion bad policy. Either we need to (1) put our money where our mouth is and forcefully advocate for/broker a legitimate two-state solution in which Palestine is a real state with full control and sovereignty over its land, which would also require massive foreign aid to build out infrastructure and institutions so that it actually can be a functioning state; or (2) put enormous pressure on Israel to absorb Palestinians into the country as full, voting citizens with rights, who are treated well, educated properly, and supported in every way by the state. That might mean that Israel is no longer an ethnoreligious state but a multiethnic democracy. It can be done. And, while I hear the arguments that the Jewish people should have their own state, I don't think that is possible or good policy when it comes at the expense of subjugating a population of 2 million Palestinians.

Obviously these options aren't simple. There are a ton of issues to work out, and I realize that neither side is solely a victim or solely an aggressor, and obviously at this point they hate each other. I think either would eventually be preferable to what is going on right now, and I really hate that the U.S.'s policy is to blindly support the Israeli government as though they can do no wrong. It is bad policy for the American people.

Please educate yourself on the history of the region.

Why does the United States have to do what you want it to do? You make it sound like an imperative or moral obligation. And you dare to ask us to build your nation up by scratch financially? You don’t even like our country anyway you just want to use us so no thank you. We support Israel and that is our choice.