If things get worse for Jewish people

[Anonymous]

Just a few examples from colleges: Cooper Union, Cornell, Tulane, Cal, Columbia, GW, NYU, USC, etc.

Tearing down of hostage posters.

Jews are being marginalized in the US.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Has anyone had this thought. If this is really what the younger generation is like would Jewish people even have support in the US in two to three generation. Easy to scoff at these college students but they are technically the leaders of tomorrow.

I'm a millennial who is pro-Palestine and not particularly supportive of the Israeli government (certainly not this one) and absolutely think the United States should dial back its political and financial support to the state of Israel. And I will vote for it, to the extent that I have a choice (not in 2024, obviously).

I'm not sure what your comment means. I have no problem with Jewish people as a whole, and to the extent that anyone is antisemitic or Jewish people are victims of hate speech/crimes, I totally condemn that and believe that should be prosecuted. I don't think advocating for the withdrawal of U.S. support to the state of Israel, as a consistent part of U.S. foreign policy, is baseline antisemitic. Perhaps some people advocate that for antisemitic reasons, but I just think it is bad foreign policy.

If you conflate those two things, than we have a fundamental disagreement on worldview. That's not my issue to solve.

As long as you understand what withdrawing US support for Israel means — namely, a regional war in the Middle East that Israel would probably lose and which would likely lead to the deaths of millions of Israeli Jews, among many many others.

So, you are admitting that Israel cannot stand on its own.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm wondering how bad it's going to get. I live in an area where a lot of people have safe rooms, but we don't have one. We aren't Jewish but have Jewish friends. I'm curious if people are constructing safe rooms and otherwise preparing for the worst.

Too late. They should have thought twice about how they voted in 2000.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Has anyone had this thought. If this is really what the younger generation is like would Jewish people even have support in the US in two to three generation. Easy to scoff at these college students but they are technically the leaders of tomorrow.

I'm a millennial who is pro-Palestine and not particularly supportive of the Israeli government (certainly not this one) and absolutely think the United States should dial back its political and financial support to the state of Israel. And I will vote for it, to the extent that I have a choice (not in 2024, obviously).

I'm not sure what your comment means. I have no problem with Jewish people as a whole, and to the extent that anyone is antisemitic or Jewish people are victims of hate speech/crimes, I totally condemn that and believe that should be prosecuted. I don't think advocating for the withdrawal of U.S. support to the state of Israel, as a consistent part of U.S. foreign policy, is baseline antisemitic. Perhaps some people advocate that for antisemitic reasons, but I just think it is bad foreign policy.

If you conflate those two things, than we have a fundamental disagreement on worldview. That's not my issue to solve.

Surely you understand that stateless nations are problematic for everyone. Look at the Kurds. They are a nation that has no official state. This has caused them to be attacked, famously with chemical weapons. They are also attackers, historically using terrorism for political violence. Right now, Israelis have a state. And, they have agreed to allow the state of Palestine to operate independently on land that officially belongs to Israel. Israel even foots the bill for all utilities that Palestine uses.

Why isn't this enough? Surely you understand that kicking Israelis out and leaving them stateless would harm all involved. Palestine has practically no governance and Israel has to take care of the people in Palestine. If we say, okay, let's kick out all the Jews and cede all of Israel to a terrorist organization, how do you think that will turn out? And what we would do about the nuclear bombs that Israel has? Turn that over to hamas, too? The so-called pro Palestine movement will be a bit like the dog that caught the car. This is not an outcome that will help actual Palestinians.

I agree that stateless nations are a problem for everyone. I also believe that the existence of the current Israel/Palestine situation is a problem for everyone (see, e.g. the current conflict - a major humanitarian problem for Gaza, potentially a regional conflict, and a major optics problem for the U.S., whose patron state is committing war crimes that we are, for some reason, defending in public).

The U.S. protecting this status quo through its policy of "support for Israel" (in its current form), is in my opinion bad policy. Either we need to (1) put our money where our mouth is and forcefully advocate for/broker a legitimate two-state solution in which Palestine is a real state with full control and sovereignty over its land, which would also require massive foreign aid to build out infrastructure and institutions so that it actually can be a functioning state; or (2) put enormous pressure on Israel to absorb Palestinians into the country as full, voting citizens with rights, who are treated well, educated properly, and supported in every way by the state. That might mean that Israel is no longer an ethnoreligious state but a multiethnic democracy. It can be done. And, while I hear the arguments that the Jewish people should have their own state, I don't think that is possible or good policy when it comes at the expense of subjugating a population of 2 million Palestinians.

Obviously these options aren't simple. There are a ton of issues to work out, and I realize that neither side is solely a victim or solely an aggressor, and obviously at this point they hate each other. I think either would eventually be preferable to what is going on right now, and I really hate that the U.S.'s policy is to blindly support the Israeli government as though they can do no wrong. It is bad policy for the American people.

On the second option: Do you really think integrating the Israeli and Palestinian population would be effective? This seems like an extraordinary act of foreign meddling that is highly unlikely to result in peace.

I don't think we should blindly support any other nation, so let's set aside that concern and focus on probable outcomes. You've already acknowledged it would take enormous amounts of cash and commitment, and we have neither. Also, neither Palestinians nor Israelis appear to wish for a two state solution. And, it's very likely that a lot of people would die. I'm trying to understand why you'd advocate what seems to be a doomed western vision of integration.

On the first: Israel already ceded Gaza. What else do you want Israel to do?

We do blindly support Israel. If you disagree that the current USG policy of protecting Israel (no matter what) at the UN, publicly and repeatedly voicing full support to the Israeli government even when it is committing war crimes, and providing massive amounts of military and financial aid isn't blind support, I don't know what to tell you. We provide $3.3B annually to Israel. That's an enormous amount of cash that could better be spent pretty much anywhere else. Ideally I would spend it on our myriad domestic problems, but I think for U.S. foreign policy purposes, that money would be better allocated toward creating a functional state in Gaza.

And let's not pretend Israel ceded Gaza in any meaningful way that actually respected Palestinians. You're arguing in bad faith if you actually think this. Israel should have actually turned over complete autonomy (control of borders, airspace, etc.), supported a reasonable government that would act in the best interest of the Palestinian people (it supported Hamas, for extremely cynical reasons, lest you forget), and provided substantial aid/assistance designed to actually build infrastructure to support a functioning society. That would have been in their own interest. What they actually did is very different, and has led to essentially the subjugation of the population as second-tier citizens.

[Anonymous]

How much worse it can get? What "worse" are we waiting for?

Speaking at Shura, Weisberg described in graphic detail how one badly charred body turned out to be two victims – a mother and a baby bound together in a deep embrace.

Another victim, he said, was a pregnant woman, her stomach cut open, her fetus pulled out and beheaded. The umbilical cord was still attached.

"When you think about evil, you realize it is beyond comprehension when you see what this terror organization did," the rabbi said.

"I’ve seen things that no one should ever see," said Shari, describing how many of the dead women arrived still wearing their pajamas, their heads blown off and some booby-trapped with grenades.

"We saw evidence of rape," Shari stated. "Pelvises were broken, and it probably takes a lot to break a pelvis… and this was also among grandmothers down to small children. These are things we saw with our own eyes."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Just a few examples from colleges: Cooper Union, Cornell, Tulane, Cal, Columbia, GW, NYU, USC, etc.

Tearing down of hostage posters.

Jews are being marginalized in the US.

What?? That's not marginalization by a long shot.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just a few examples from colleges: Cooper Union, Cornell, Tulane, Cal, Columbia, GW, NYU, USC, etc.

Tearing down of hostage posters.

Jews are being marginalized in the US.

What?? That's not marginalization by a long shot.

There’s so much more.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just a few examples from colleges: Cooper Union, Cornell, Tulane, Cal, Columbia, GW, NYU, USC, etc.

Tearing down of hostage posters.

Jews are being marginalized in the US.

What?? That's not marginalization by a long shot.

There’s so much more.

It must not be that much or else you would have listed it instead of tearing down posters, which could have been torn down for any number of reasons beaides antisemitism.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:How much worse it can get? What "worse" are we waiting for?

Speaking at Shura, Weisberg described in graphic detail how one badly charred body turned out to be two victims – a mother and a baby bound together in a deep embrace.

Another victim, he said, was a pregnant woman, her stomach cut open, her fetus pulled out and beheaded. The umbilical cord was still attached.

"When you think about evil, you realize it is beyond comprehension when you see what this terror organization did," the rabbi said.

"I’ve seen things that no one should ever see," said Shari, describing how many of the dead women arrived still wearing their pajamas, their heads blown off and some booby-trapped with grenades.

"We saw evidence of rape," Shari stated. "Pelvises were broken, and it probably takes a lot to break a pelvis… and this was also among grandmothers down to small children. These are things we saw with our own eyes."

We understand that horrible, inhuman, brutal acts were committed against innocent Israeli victims during the terrorist attack. Serious people do not deny this. Anyone who cheers this or thinks it was somehow deserved is a broken, twisted, horrible person.

But I am really not sure why PPs keep rehashing the brutalities of 10/7 here. What's the purpose? These people were victims of a horrible terrorist attack. There have been many horrible terrorist attacks, war crimes, etc. committed against all stripes of people throughout history. It is horrible and it should be condemned. What else are you saying beyond that?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just a few examples from colleges: Cooper Union, Cornell, Tulane, Cal, Columbia, GW, NYU, USC, etc.

Tearing down of hostage posters.

Jews are being marginalized in the US.

What?? That's not marginalization by a long shot.

There’s so much more.

It must not be that much or else you would have listed it instead of tearing down posters, which could have been torn down for any number of reasons beaides antisemitism.

Use google.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just a few examples from colleges: Cooper Union, Cornell, Tulane, Cal, Columbia, GW, NYU, USC, etc.

Tearing down of hostage posters.

Jews are being marginalized in the US.

What?? That's not marginalization by a long shot.

There’s so much more.

It must not be that much or else you would have listed it instead of tearing down posters, which could have been torn down for any number of reasons beaides antisemitism.

Use google.

I did, and did not find anything. Sounds like you don't have anything, either. Jews are not being marginalized in the U.S.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:See PP as an example. In two to three generations when the Bidens and the Hilary Clintons are no longer here and AOC has power then what happens? And for all the arguments anti semitism is not anti Zionisism we have seen an outpouring of hate for Jewish people. I don’t fear for myself but I worry about a future in the US for my Jewish children.

I'm the PP you're referring to (I think); the one who believes that U.S. government policy should not be to blindly support the state of Israel. I am not antisemitic and I don't hate Jews (far from it) or think that they should be held personally responsible for the actions of the Israeli government.

I'm not sure why you think the fact that many of us do not believe the USG should unconditionally support Israel means you should worry about a future in the U.S. for your Jewish children. Seriously failing to see the logical connection there.

In other words, you think we should let the terrorists win, because that is what would happen. I’m sure you believe there would be some magical transformation to a Palestinian government based on peace, love, and understanding, but we don’t live in that world.

The terrorists haven't won. And committing (or as the U.S. is doing, funding and being complicit in) war crimes against the Palestinian civilian population is only going to create more terrorists. It's short sighted in the extreme, in addition to being immoral and bad optics.

Are Egypt and Jordan complicit for not opening their borders? Are other nearby countries complicit for not evacuating Palestinians and accepting them as refugees?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:See PP as an example. In two to three generations when the Bidens and the Hilary Clintons are no longer here and AOC has power then what happens? And for all the arguments anti semitism is not anti Zionisism we have seen an outpouring of hate for Jewish people. I don’t fear for myself but I worry about a future in the US for my Jewish children.

I'm the PP you're referring to (I think); the one who believes that U.S. government policy should not be to blindly support the state of Israel. I am not antisemitic and I don't hate Jews (far from it) or think that they should be held personally responsible for the actions of the Israeli government.

I'm not sure why you think the fact that many of us do not believe the USG should unconditionally support Israel means you should worry about a future in the U.S. for your Jewish children. Seriously failing to see the logical connection there.

In other words, you think we should let the terrorists win, because that is what would happen. I’m sure you believe there would be some magical transformation to a Palestinian government based on peace, love, and understanding, but we don’t live in that world.

The terrorists haven't won. And committing (or as the U.S. is doing, funding and being complicit in) war crimes against the Palestinian civilian population is only going to create more terrorists. It's short sighted in the extreme, in addition to being immoral and bad optics.

Are Egypt and Jordan complicit for not opening their borders? Are other nearby countries complicit for not evacuating Palestinians and accepting them as refugees?

Egypt and Jordan and other countries are not my concern. That's a deflection and a red herring. The IDF is indiscriminately and purposely bombing civilians, including thousands of children, and the U.S. is providing funding, direct military aid, and political/diplomatic cover for this. As a U.S. citizen, I'm focused on my government, the policies of the administration I voted for, and what my taxpayer dollars are supporting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How much worse it can get? What "worse" are we waiting for?

Speaking at Shura, Weisberg described in graphic detail how one badly charred body turned out to be two victims – a mother and a baby bound together in a deep embrace.

Another victim, he said, was a pregnant woman, her stomach cut open, her fetus pulled out and beheaded. The umbilical cord was still attached.

"When you think about evil, you realize it is beyond comprehension when you see what this terror organization did," the rabbi said.

"I’ve seen things that no one should ever see," said Shari, describing how many of the dead women arrived still wearing their pajamas, their heads blown off and some booby-trapped with grenades.

"We saw evidence of rape," Shari stated. "Pelvises were broken, and it probably takes a lot to break a pelvis… and this was also among grandmothers down to small children. These are things we saw with our own eyes."

We understand that horrible, inhuman, brutal acts were committed against innocent Israeli victims during the terrorist attack. Serious people do not deny this. Anyone who cheers this or thinks it was somehow deserved is a broken, twisted, horrible person.

But I am really not sure why PPs keep rehashing the brutalities of 10/7 here. What's the purpose? These people were victims of a horrible terrorist attack. There have been many horrible terrorist attacks, war crimes, etc. committed against all stripes of people throughout history. It is horrible and it should be condemned. What else are you saying beyond that?

Let me help you understand.
The attack suffered by Israel on 10/7 is why we are where we are. There would be no war in Israel had it not been for this brutal attack. These savages didn't attack the military as a government would do in a legitimate war. No, they went after civilians who had no defense. They went after women and children. They shot them. They beheaded some. They tortured many. They raped some. They burned them alive. They bombed some. And, they baked babies in an oven.
These are not the actions of "normal" people. These are not the actions of people trying to seize land or territory. These are the actions of brutally hateful savages. These are the actions of people that have no right to walk the earth among peace loving people.
I hope people continue to remind you, and others, of the brutality that happened that day. Because so many protests today - even in the US - are in support of Hamas... the brutal savages who carried out these acts. It is the responsibility of people everywhere to continue to remind the world what these savages did and why Israel is forced to take action.
Hope this helps with your understanding.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:See PP as an example. In two to three generations when the Bidens and the Hilary Clintons are no longer here and AOC has power then what happens? And for all the arguments anti semitism is not anti Zionisism we have seen an outpouring of hate for Jewish people. I don’t fear for myself but I worry about a future in the US for my Jewish children.

I'm the PP you're referring to (I think); the one who believes that U.S. government policy should not be to blindly support the state of Israel. I am not antisemitic and I don't hate Jews (far from it) or think that they should be held personally responsible for the actions of the Israeli government.

I'm not sure why you think the fact that many of us do not believe the USG should unconditionally support Israel means you should worry about a future in the U.S. for your Jewish children. Seriously failing to see the logical connection there.

In other words, you think we should let the terrorists win, because that is what would happen. I’m sure you believe there would be some magical transformation to a Palestinian government based on peace, love, and understanding, but we don’t live in that world.

The terrorists haven't won. And committing (or as the U.S. is doing, funding and being complicit in) war crimes against the Palestinian civilian population is only going to create more terrorists. It's short sighted in the extreme, in addition to being immoral and bad optics.

Are Egypt and Jordan complicit for not opening their borders? Are other nearby countries complicit for not evacuating Palestinians and accepting them as refugees?

Egypt and Jordan and other countries are not my concern. That's a deflection and a red herring. The IDF is indiscriminately and purposely bombing civilians, including thousands of children, and the U.S. is providing funding, direct military aid, and political/diplomatic cover for this. As a U.S. citizen, I'm focused on my government, the policies of the administration I voted for, and what my taxpayer dollars are supporting.

No, they are not. Their actions are very much targeted to take out the terrorists who have no right to walk the earth.
It is abundantly clear that you have no military training and have no understanding of war time strategies.