Protests on college campuses

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is a very good letter. And the students who wrote it signed their names.

Great. They are welcome to write how they feel and their thoughts on the mattter.

Other Jewish people on campus feel differently and some have participated in the protests, like Jonathan Ben-Menachem. You can read his article here:
https://zeteo.com/p/i-am-a-jewish-student-at-columbia

I notice how the writers of this piece refer to people like Jonathan as "our Jewish peers who tokenize themselves"

You can notice all kinds of things, and keep not noticing the Jew hatred that's been unleashed since Hamas slaughtered, raped, and kidnapped 1200 Israelis on Oct 7.

The more you ignore and refuse to acknowledge the massive imbalance in atrocities committed by the Israeli side in this conflict, the less people hear you.

The more you ignore and refuse to acknowledge those atrocities and instead propagate false claims regarding the events of 10/7, the less people see you.

And the more you do both of those things while demanding that others focus only on YOUR interests and irrational feelings, the less people care about you at all.

The more these protesters pollute and vandalize college campuses, the less people hear or care about the. The more they do things like block highways, the less people hear and care about them. These strategies have been 100% asinine from the beginning.

Actually, the truth is that if they remained completely peaceful and quiet and focused only on protesting the killing of Palestinian civilians, that is when people would ignore them. It's only when they block highways and enter buildings that people pay attention. People like drama and controversy.

Right? Because that's exactly how people think. When they are blocked in traffic by pro-Palestinian protesters and late for work or picking up their kids or can't make it to the hospital as they're having a heart attack, their first thought is always gosh, maybe these protestors have a good point. We really should "globalize the intifada." Or when an engineering student can't get into the library to study, their first thought is always "We are all Hamas." Who needs an education?

Obviously MLK and Gandhi were idiots with their non-violent protests. Totally ignored. Got them nowhere.

You seem to be one of those people who only likes the sanitized sepia toned version of MLK.

The reason MLK’s nonviolent protests were successful is because people were shocked that police were deployed against them.

Now the students are being nonviolent and you are cheering the use of militarized police tactics on students.

I do not for a minute equate Bull Connor and Birmingham with the police removing the student Hamas enthusiasts that overtook Columbia. There is no equivalence, and to favorably compare the two demonstrates how completely delusional the protesters and their supporters are.

I promise you if MLK was still alive he’d be supporting the protesters.

I’m not sure I believe that.

I flat out don’t.

Because of the content of the protest? Meaning you think he would support Israel over Palestine? Or because of the methodology of the protests? Meaning you think he wouldn’t support encampments?

I’m not the PP but I do not believe MLK would want to involve himself with protests that are overwhelmingly driven by white, wealthy, and incredibly privileged students. And while I believe MLK would have had great sympathy for the Palestinians, he would have also had deep horror about what happened on 10/7. I think MLK would have been appalled at the pro-Hamas imagery at the protests, for instance.

These protests do not have a great deal of support, even among people whose political sympathies might lie with the Palestinians but who understand that the Israeli Palestinian history is not a black and white easily solved issue. I do not think it’s easy to glibly say that MLk would have supported the protestors.

There are a number of white and/or wealthy kids in these protests and the kids at the Ivies are by definition incredibly privileged. But I think many of the protests are driven by Palestinian and/or Muslim students who are overwhelmingly not white. Other students including white students and Jewish students are also joining in but not driving the current protests or the encampments.

That’s not what their own videos show. These are protests that are organized and driven largely by wealthy, privileged, and frequently white kids. That’s not to say that there aren’t Muslim and/or Palestinian organizers, of course they are. But the protests that are getting graduations cancelled at the elite schools in particular, the ones getting the most press coverage and with the most violence and defacement of property: these are the protests of wealthy, incredibly privileged kids that are frequently and sometimes overwhelmingly white. Just the equipment that you can see in the encampments demonstrate clear access to significant funds. These are not created by poor, struggling people. They are backed by a lot of wealth.

That was never MLK’s group, and I do not think he would have aligned himself with them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is a very good letter. And the students who wrote it signed their names.

Great. They are welcome to write how they feel and their thoughts on the mattter.

Other Jewish people on campus feel differently and some have participated in the protests, like Jonathan Ben-Menachem. You can read his article here:
https://zeteo.com/p/i-am-a-jewish-student-at-columbia

I notice how the writers of this piece refer to people like Jonathan as "our Jewish peers who tokenize themselves"

You can notice all kinds of things, and keep not noticing the Jew hatred that's been unleashed since Hamas slaughtered, raped, and kidnapped 1200 Israelis on Oct 7.

The more you ignore and refuse to acknowledge the massive imbalance in atrocities committed by the Israeli side in this conflict, the less people hear you.

The more you ignore and refuse to acknowledge those atrocities and instead propagate false claims regarding the events of 10/7, the less people see you.

And the more you do both of those things while demanding that others focus only on YOUR interests and irrational feelings, the less people care about you at all.

The more these protesters pollute and vandalize college campuses, the less people hear or care about the. The more they do things like block highways, the less people hear and care about them. These strategies have been 100% asinine from the beginning.

Actually, the truth is that if they remained completely peaceful and quiet and focused only on protesting the killing of Palestinian civilians, that is when people would ignore them. It's only when they block highways and enter buildings that people pay attention. People like drama and controversy.

Right? Because that's exactly how people think. When they are blocked in traffic by pro-Palestinian protesters and late for work or picking up their kids or can't make it to the hospital as they're having a heart attack, their first thought is always gosh, maybe these protestors have a good point. We really should "globalize the intifada." Or when an engineering student can't get into the library to study, their first thought is always "We are all Hamas." Who needs an education?

Obviously MLK and Gandhi were idiots with their non-violent protests. Totally ignored. Got them nowhere.

You seem to be one of those people who only likes the sanitized sepia toned version of MLK.

The reason MLK’s nonviolent protests were successful is because people were shocked that police were deployed against them.

Now the students are being nonviolent and you are cheering the use of militarized police tactics on students.

I do not for a minute equate Bull Connor and Birmingham with the police removing the student Hamas enthusiasts that overtook Columbia. There is no equivalence, and to favorably compare the two demonstrates how completely delusional the protesters and their supporters are.

I promise you if MLK was still alive he’d be supporting the protesters.

I’m not sure I believe that.

I flat out don’t.

Because of the content of the protest? Meaning you think he would support Israel over Palestine? Or because of the methodology of the protests? Meaning you think he wouldn’t support encampments?

All of the above.

Ok. I think you are wrong on both counts.

I believe he would have been with the underdog - the Palestinians in this case. At best he may just not taken sides. This is speculative though and you may be right and really not worth debating unless someone has some of his writings on the issue.

On the encampments - I think if he believed strongly in the cause, it would very much be a part of a civil disobedience protest. Coming up with ways to make the people uncomfortable is certainly in keeping with non violent protest movements. I agree that nobody should be ok with harassment of others (and I seriously doubt he would be). But honestly I don’t think the camp out (conceptually) would be outside his or Gandhi’s techniques.

We can’t have MLK time travel to the present day to prove who is right, but I stand by my view that he was a Christian man of his time who supported nonviolent protest and I don’t think those core opinions would change.

The violence at these protests has all been committed by the police or (for UCLA and Kahane) counter demonstrators

If you are recategorizing vandalism, graffiti writing, and defacement of statues and historic buildings as nonviolent. Which you apparently are doing.

DP. College protests have happened all over the country, and they have ranged in size and expression. It is not accurate to say that in every instance protestors engaged in vandalism, graffiti writing, and defacement of pubic property. (I'm guessing you weren't this triggered on Jan. 6 when protestors did this and much more. If I'm wrong, I stand corrected.)

Not the PP but I consider Jan 6th an insurrection where jail time was an appropriate punishment. I was absolutely in favor of punishments for those protestors who destroyed our public property.

I am equally in favor of punishment for those people who have destroyed parts of libraries and our great centers of education. The right to free speech does not extend to smearing feces on walls that poor, mostly POC janitorial staff will have to clean.

This is true of the jerks of the far left and the far right. What is appalling to me are the number of supposed progressives who were calling for jail time for J6 protestors while defending the vandalism and destruction of the pro-Palestinian protestors. It’s incredibly hypocritical.

Well you need to do some research. The people doing the “damage” are the same right wing actors who marched in Charlottesville and disrupted BLM protests. Los Angeles police and FBI are going after the mob at UCLA.

You sound as foolish as the J6 protestors who blamed “antifa” infiltrators.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is a very good letter. And the students who wrote it signed their names.

Great. They are welcome to write how they feel and their thoughts on the mattter.

Other Jewish people on campus feel differently and some have participated in the protests, like Jonathan Ben-Menachem. You can read his article here:
https://zeteo.com/p/i-am-a-jewish-student-at-columbia

I notice how the writers of this piece refer to people like Jonathan as "our Jewish peers who tokenize themselves"

You can notice all kinds of things, and keep not noticing the Jew hatred that's been unleashed since Hamas slaughtered, raped, and kidnapped 1200 Israelis on Oct 7.

The more you ignore and refuse to acknowledge the massive imbalance in atrocities committed by the Israeli side in this conflict, the less people hear you.

The more you ignore and refuse to acknowledge those atrocities and instead propagate false claims regarding the events of 10/7, the less people see you.

And the more you do both of those things while demanding that others focus only on YOUR interests and irrational feelings, the less people care about you at all.

The more these protesters pollute and vandalize college campuses, the less people hear or care about the. The more they do things like block highways, the less people hear and care about them. These strategies have been 100% asinine from the beginning.

Actually, the truth is that if they remained completely peaceful and quiet and focused only on protesting the killing of Palestinian civilians, that is when people would ignore them. It's only when they block highways and enter buildings that people pay attention. People like drama and controversy.

Right? Because that's exactly how people think. When they are blocked in traffic by pro-Palestinian protesters and late for work or picking up their kids or can't make it to the hospital as they're having a heart attack, their first thought is always gosh, maybe these protestors have a good point. We really should "globalize the intifada." Or when an engineering student can't get into the library to study, their first thought is always "We are all Hamas." Who needs an education?

Obviously MLK and Gandhi were idiots with their non-violent protests. Totally ignored. Got them nowhere.

You seem to be one of those people who only likes the sanitized sepia toned version of MLK.

The reason MLK’s nonviolent protests were successful is because people were shocked that police were deployed against them.

Now the students are being nonviolent and you are cheering the use of militarized police tactics on students.

I do not for a minute equate Bull Connor and Birmingham with the police removing the student Hamas enthusiasts that overtook Columbia. There is no equivalence, and to favorably compare the two demonstrates how completely delusional the protesters and their supporters are.

I promise you if MLK was still alive he’d be supporting the protesters.

I’m not sure I believe that.

I flat out don’t.

Because of the content of the protest? Meaning you think he would support Israel over Palestine? Or because of the methodology of the protests? Meaning you think he wouldn’t support encampments?

All of the above.

Ok. I think you are wrong on both counts.

I believe he would have been with the underdog - the Palestinians in this case. At best he may just not taken sides. This is speculative though and you may be right and really not worth debating unless someone has some of his writings on the issue.

On the encampments - I think if he believed strongly in the cause, it would very much be a part of a civil disobedience protest. Coming up with ways to make the people uncomfortable is certainly in keeping with non violent protest movements. I agree that nobody should be ok with harassment of others (and I seriously doubt he would be). But honestly I don’t think the camp out (conceptually) would be outside his or Gandhi’s techniques.

We can’t have MLK time travel to the present day to prove who is right, but I stand by my view that he was a Christian man of his time who supported nonviolent protest and I don’t think those core opinions would change.

The violence at these protests has all been committed by the police or (for UCLA and Kahane) counter demonstrators

If you are recategorizing vandalism, graffiti writing, and defacement of statues and historic buildings as nonviolent. Which you apparently are doing.

DP. College protests have happened all over the country, and they have ranged in size and expression. It is not accurate to say that in every instance protestors engaged in vandalism, graffiti writing, and defacement of pubic property. (I'm guessing you weren't this triggered on Jan. 6 when protestors did this and much more. If I'm wrong, I stand corrected.)

Not the PP but I consider Jan 6th an insurrection where jail time was an appropriate punishment. I was absolutely in favor of punishments for those protestors who destroyed our public property.

I am equally in favor of punishment for those people who have destroyed parts of libraries and our great centers of education. The right to free speech does not extend to smearing feces on walls that poor, mostly POC janitorial staff will have to clean.

This is true of the jerks of the far left and the far right. What is appalling to me are the number of supposed progressives who were calling for jail time for J6 protestors while defending the vandalism and destruction of the pro-Palestinian protestors. It’s incredibly hypocritical.

I'm the PP you're responding to. You and I agree that people who destroyed public property in the course of campus protests (or storming the capitol) should be punished. I don't know which campus protest you're describing, but I agree that anyone who destroyed parts of libraries or smeared feces in public spaces should be punished. If any "supposed progressives" are saying that acts of vandalism and destruction are okay, then they are wrong.

However, the acts you describe did not happen everywhere. As I said, the campus protests have ranged in size and expression. I support peaceful protest, including on college campuses. But too many people are lumping ALL the protests and protestors together and painting them as being violent and destructive to the same degree EVERYWHERE, which is simply not true. I've lived all over the world, including in countries that didn't even allow public protests of any kind, and I stand by my belief that peaceful protest is a core principle of democracy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is a very good letter. And the students who wrote it signed their names.

Great. They are welcome to write how they feel and their thoughts on the mattter.

Other Jewish people on campus feel differently and some have participated in the protests, like Jonathan Ben-Menachem. You can read his article here:
https://zeteo.com/p/i-am-a-jewish-student-at-columbia

I notice how the writers of this piece refer to people like Jonathan as "our Jewish peers who tokenize themselves"

You can notice all kinds of things, and keep not noticing the Jew hatred that's been unleashed since Hamas slaughtered, raped, and kidnapped 1200 Israelis on Oct 7.

The more you ignore and refuse to acknowledge the massive imbalance in atrocities committed by the Israeli side in this conflict, the less people hear you.

The more you ignore and refuse to acknowledge those atrocities and instead propagate false claims regarding the events of 10/7, the less people see you.

And the more you do both of those things while demanding that others focus only on YOUR interests and irrational feelings, the less people care about you at all.

The more these protesters pollute and vandalize college campuses, the less people hear or care about the. The more they do things like block highways, the less people hear and care about them. These strategies have been 100% asinine from the beginning.

Actually, the truth is that if they remained completely peaceful and quiet and focused only on protesting the killing of Palestinian civilians, that is when people would ignore them. It's only when they block highways and enter buildings that people pay attention. People like drama and controversy.

Right? Because that's exactly how people think. When they are blocked in traffic by pro-Palestinian protesters and late for work or picking up their kids or can't make it to the hospital as they're having a heart attack, their first thought is always gosh, maybe these protestors have a good point. We really should "globalize the intifada." Or when an engineering student can't get into the library to study, their first thought is always "We are all Hamas." Who needs an education?

Obviously MLK and Gandhi were idiots with their non-violent protests. Totally ignored. Got them nowhere.

You seem to be one of those people who only likes the sanitized sepia toned version of MLK.

The reason MLK’s nonviolent protests were successful is because people were shocked that police were deployed against them.

Now the students are being nonviolent and you are cheering the use of militarized police tactics on students.

I do not for a minute equate Bull Connor and Birmingham with the police removing the student Hamas enthusiasts that overtook Columbia. There is no equivalence, and to favorably compare the two demonstrates how completely delusional the protesters and their supporters are.

I promise you if MLK was still alive he’d be supporting the protesters.

I’m not sure I believe that.

I flat out don’t.

Because of the content of the protest? Meaning you think he would support Israel over Palestine? Or because of the methodology of the protests? Meaning you think he wouldn’t support encampments?

All of the above.

Ok. I think you are wrong on both counts.

I believe he would have been with the underdog - the Palestinians in this case. At best he may just not taken sides. This is speculative though and you may be right and really not worth debating unless someone has some of his writings on the issue.

On the encampments - I think if he believed strongly in the cause, it would very much be a part of a civil disobedience protest. Coming up with ways to make the people uncomfortable is certainly in keeping with non violent protest movements. I agree that nobody should be ok with harassment of others (and I seriously doubt he would be). But honestly I don’t think the camp out (conceptually) would be outside his or Gandhi’s techniques.

We can’t have MLK time travel to the present day to prove who is right, but I stand by my view that he was a Christian man of his time who supported nonviolent protest and I don’t think those core opinions would change.

The violence at these protests has all been committed by the police or (for UCLA and Kahane) counter demonstrators

If you are recategorizing vandalism, graffiti writing, and defacement of statues and historic buildings as nonviolent. Which you apparently are doing.

DP. College protests have happened all over the country, and they have ranged in size and expression. It is not accurate to say that in every instance protestors engaged in vandalism, graffiti writing, and defacement of pubic property. (I'm guessing you weren't this triggered on Jan. 6 when protestors did this and much more. If I'm wrong, I stand corrected.)

Not the PP but I consider Jan 6th an insurrection where jail time was an appropriate punishment. I was absolutely in favor of punishments for those protestors who destroyed our public property.

I am equally in favor of punishment for those people who have destroyed parts of libraries and our great centers of education. The right to free speech does not extend to smearing feces on walls that poor, mostly POC janitorial staff will have to clean.

This is true of the jerks of the far left and the far right. What is appalling to me are the number of supposed progressives who were calling for jail time for J6 protestors while defending the vandalism and destruction of the pro-Palestinian protestors. It’s incredibly hypocritical.

Well you need to do some research. The people doing the “damage” are the same right wing actors who marched in Charlottesville and disrupted BLM protests. Los Angeles police and FBI are going after the mob at UCLA.

You sound as foolish as the J6 protestors who blamed “antifa” infiltrators.

DP. Let's face it, unless we were there, none of us know who all the players are at these protests and what exactly went on in each one. If there are outside agitators who incited violence at all or some of these protests, I hope that local authorities are watching them. But the rest of us simply don't know enough about what's going on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is a very good letter. And the students who wrote it signed their names.

Great. They are welcome to write how they feel and their thoughts on the mattter.

Other Jewish people on campus feel differently and some have participated in the protests, like Jonathan Ben-Menachem. You can read his article here:
https://zeteo.com/p/i-am-a-jewish-student-at-columbia

I notice how the writers of this piece refer to people like Jonathan as "our Jewish peers who tokenize themselves"

You can notice all kinds of things, and keep not noticing the Jew hatred that's been unleashed since Hamas slaughtered, raped, and kidnapped 1200 Israelis on Oct 7.

The more you ignore and refuse to acknowledge the massive imbalance in atrocities committed by the Israeli side in this conflict, the less people hear you.

The more you ignore and refuse to acknowledge those atrocities and instead propagate false claims regarding the events of 10/7, the less people see you.

And the more you do both of those things while demanding that others focus only on YOUR interests and irrational feelings, the less people care about you at all.

The more these protesters pollute and vandalize college campuses, the less people hear or care about the. The more they do things like block highways, the less people hear and care about them. These strategies have been 100% asinine from the beginning.

Actually, the truth is that if they remained completely peaceful and quiet and focused only on protesting the killing of Palestinian civilians, that is when people would ignore them. It's only when they block highways and enter buildings that people pay attention. People like drama and controversy.

Right? Because that's exactly how people think. When they are blocked in traffic by pro-Palestinian protesters and late for work or picking up their kids or can't make it to the hospital as they're having a heart attack, their first thought is always gosh, maybe these protestors have a good point. We really should "globalize the intifada." Or when an engineering student can't get into the library to study, their first thought is always "We are all Hamas." Who needs an education?

Obviously MLK and Gandhi were idiots with their non-violent protests. Totally ignored. Got them nowhere.

You seem to be one of those people who only likes the sanitized sepia toned version of MLK.

The reason MLK’s nonviolent protests were successful is because people were shocked that police were deployed against them.

Now the students are being nonviolent and you are cheering the use of militarized police tactics on students.

I do not for a minute equate Bull Connor and Birmingham with the police removing the student Hamas enthusiasts that overtook Columbia. There is no equivalence, and to favorably compare the two demonstrates how completely delusional the protesters and their supporters are.

I promise you if MLK was still alive he’d be supporting the protesters.

I’m not sure I believe that.

I flat out don’t.

Because of the content of the protest? Meaning you think he would support Israel over Palestine? Or because of the methodology of the protests? Meaning you think he wouldn’t support encampments?

All of the above.

Ok. I think you are wrong on both counts.

I believe he would have been with the underdog - the Palestinians in this case. At best he may just not taken sides. This is speculative though and you may be right and really not worth debating unless someone has some of his writings on the issue.

On the encampments - I think if he believed strongly in the cause, it would very much be a part of a civil disobedience protest. Coming up with ways to make the people uncomfortable is certainly in keeping with non violent protest movements. I agree that nobody should be ok with harassment of others (and I seriously doubt he would be). But honestly I don’t think the camp out (conceptually) would be outside his or Gandhi’s techniques.

We can’t have MLK time travel to the present day to prove who is right, but I stand by my view that he was a Christian man of his time who supported nonviolent protest and I don’t think those core opinions would change.

I knew people who knew MLK as well as The Mahatma (Gandhi), and I am 99.99% sure they would have been broadly supportive of the protests.

So we are now down to I knew I knew? MLK expressed strong support for Israel when he was alive.

You seem to mistake “support for Israel” as a license for Israel to do literally whatever it wants to do.

Like essentially everything else in life, most sane people afford support on a conditional basis - as in, I support Israel as long as Israel upholds at least some minimum level of values that we expect of nations AND doesn’t engage in policies and actions that shock the conscience and starkly conflict with those values.

Once a nation so clearly violates those conditions, why should ANYONE support them with weapons, shield them from accountability at the U.N., etc.?

Everyone is conjecturing what MLK would approve of based on “people who know him” etc etc. all suppositions. However, he actually praised Israel and the Jewish people for standing up for civil rights. So from that I can draw my own deductions what he thinks of the rabble college protests and which side he would be on.

This is a hoot. No, I don’t think MLK would advocate for violence, especially not wonton violence against civilians of any nation. But the idea he wouldn’t stand with the students against the apartheid and against the genocide is total joke. His sometimes praise of Israel would never have amounted to the racialized blank check Zionists want to assume.

Once again, DCUM knows the American propaganda of recent decades and is blindly loyal to it. That’s why so many see this as both a fundamental justice issue and, unfortunately, a generational issue. The olds (I’m one) can’t imagine how wrong they are, how provincial and ignorant they are. And it’s putting a lot of lot of America’s interests at risk.

[Anonymous]

For those of you defending the campus encampments, you are fools and uneducated. Every single one of these is violating the time, place and manner rules set up by the universities. Every single squatter is a lawbreaker and should be prosecuted.

A legitimate peaceful protest would be in public space and with a properly authorized permit. If the organizers respected the laws of this country and truly wanted to impact public opinion, they would organize a march in Washington and get a proper permit to do so. Instead, they are proving that they are no better than the terrorist that they are promoting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is a very good letter. And the students who wrote it signed their names.

Great. They are welcome to write how they feel and their thoughts on the mattter.

Other Jewish people on campus feel differently and some have participated in the protests, like Jonathan Ben-Menachem. You can read his article here:
https://zeteo.com/p/i-am-a-jewish-student-at-columbia

I notice how the writers of this piece refer to people like Jonathan as "our Jewish peers who tokenize themselves"

You can notice all kinds of things, and keep not noticing the Jew hatred that's been unleashed since Hamas slaughtered, raped, and kidnapped 1200 Israelis on Oct 7.

The more you ignore and refuse to acknowledge the massive imbalance in atrocities committed by the Israeli side in this conflict, the less people hear you.

The more you ignore and refuse to acknowledge those atrocities and instead propagate false claims regarding the events of 10/7, the less people see you.

And the more you do both of those things while demanding that others focus only on YOUR interests and irrational feelings, the less people care about you at all.

The more these protesters pollute and vandalize college campuses, the less people hear or care about the. The more they do things like block highways, the less people hear and care about them. These strategies have been 100% asinine from the beginning.

Actually, the truth is that if they remained completely peaceful and quiet and focused only on protesting the killing of Palestinian civilians, that is when people would ignore them. It's only when they block highways and enter buildings that people pay attention. People like drama and controversy.

Right? Because that's exactly how people think. When they are blocked in traffic by pro-Palestinian protesters and late for work or picking up their kids or can't make it to the hospital as they're having a heart attack, their first thought is always gosh, maybe these protestors have a good point. We really should "globalize the intifada." Or when an engineering student can't get into the library to study, their first thought is always "We are all Hamas." Who needs an education?

Obviously MLK and Gandhi were idiots with their non-violent protests. Totally ignored. Got them nowhere.

You seem to be one of those people who only likes the sanitized sepia toned version of MLK.

The reason MLK’s nonviolent protests were successful is because people were shocked that police were deployed against them.

Now the students are being nonviolent and you are cheering the use of militarized police tactics on students.

I do not for a minute equate Bull Connor and Birmingham with the police removing the student Hamas enthusiasts that overtook Columbia. There is no equivalence, and to favorably compare the two demonstrates how completely delusional the protesters and their supporters are.

I promise you if MLK was still alive he’d be supporting the protesters.

I’m not sure I believe that.

I flat out don’t.

Because of the content of the protest? Meaning you think he would support Israel over Palestine? Or because of the methodology of the protests? Meaning you think he wouldn’t support encampments?

All of the above.

Ok. I think you are wrong on both counts.

I believe he would have been with the underdog - the Palestinians in this case. At best he may just not taken sides. This is speculative though and you may be right and really not worth debating unless someone has some of his writings on the issue.

On the encampments - I think if he believed strongly in the cause, it would very much be a part of a civil disobedience protest. Coming up with ways to make the people uncomfortable is certainly in keeping with non violent protest movements. I agree that nobody should be ok with harassment of others (and I seriously doubt he would be). But honestly I don’t think the camp out (conceptually) would be outside his or Gandhi’s techniques.

We can’t have MLK time travel to the present day to prove who is right, but I stand by my view that he was a Christian man of his time who supported nonviolent protest and I don’t think those core opinions would change.

The violence at these protests has all been committed by the police or (for UCLA and Kahane) counter demonstrators

If you are recategorizing vandalism, graffiti writing, and defacement of statues and historic buildings as nonviolent. Which you apparently are doing.

DP. College protests have happened all over the country, and they have ranged in size and expression. It is not accurate to say that in every instance protestors engaged in vandalism, graffiti writing, and defacement of pubic property. (I'm guessing you weren't this triggered on Jan. 6 when protestors did this and much more. If I'm wrong, I stand corrected.)

Not the PP but I consider Jan 6th an insurrection where jail time was an appropriate punishment. I was absolutely in favor of punishments for those protestors who destroyed our public property.

I am equally in favor of punishment for those people who have destroyed parts of libraries and our great centers of education. The right to free speech does not extend to smearing feces on walls that poor, mostly POC janitorial staff will have to clean.

This is true of the jerks of the far left and the far right. What is appalling to me are the number of supposed progressives who were calling for jail time for J6 protestors while defending the vandalism and destruction of the pro-Palestinian protestors. It’s incredibly hypocritical.

I'm the PP you're responding to. You and I agree that people who destroyed public property in the course of campus protests (or storming the capitol) should be punished. I don't know which campus protest you're describing, but I agree that anyone who destroyed parts of libraries or smeared feces in public spaces should be punished. If any "supposed progressives" are saying that acts of vandalism and destruction are okay, then they are wrong.

However, the acts you describe did not happen everywhere. As I said, the campus protests have ranged in size and expression. I support peaceful protest, including on college campuses. But too many people are lumping ALL the protests and protestors together and painting them as being violent and destructive to the same degree EVERYWHERE, which is simply not true. I've lived all over the world, including in countries that didn't even allow public protests of any kind, and I stand by my belief that peaceful protest is a core principle of democracy.

Okay? Nobody is disagreeing with you on that.

What people are angry about, and what is losing sympathy across the country, are the people destroying college libraries and trapping POC janitors in buildings while making those same janitors pick up the trash they left everywhere. People are angry that people in ambulances aren’t getting to the hospital because protestors blocked a bridge. They are angry about protestors causing kids who are paying a fortune to go to schools to miss class.

They are angry at the vandalism, the obvious thoughtless privilege of the protestors, the selfishness masquerading as activism, and the entitlement. Nobody objects to peaceful protest and those have generally gone off without a hitch. But when you start acting the way a lot of these folks are, yes, people reasonably react negatively.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is a very good letter. And the students who wrote it signed their names.

Great. They are welcome to write how they feel and their thoughts on the mattter.

Other Jewish people on campus feel differently and some have participated in the protests, like Jonathan Ben-Menachem. You can read his article here:
https://zeteo.com/p/i-am-a-jewish-student-at-columbia

I notice how the writers of this piece refer to people like Jonathan as "our Jewish peers who tokenize themselves"

You can notice all kinds of things, and keep not noticing the Jew hatred that's been unleashed since Hamas slaughtered, raped, and kidnapped 1200 Israelis on Oct 7.

The more you ignore and refuse to acknowledge the massive imbalance in atrocities committed by the Israeli side in this conflict, the less people hear you.

The more you ignore and refuse to acknowledge those atrocities and instead propagate false claims regarding the events of 10/7, the less people see you.

And the more you do both of those things while demanding that others focus only on YOUR interests and irrational feelings, the less people care about you at all.

The more these protesters pollute and vandalize college campuses, the less people hear or care about the. The more they do things like block highways, the less people hear and care about them. These strategies have been 100% asinine from the beginning.

Actually, the truth is that if they remained completely peaceful and quiet and focused only on protesting the killing of Palestinian civilians, that is when people would ignore them. It's only when they block highways and enter buildings that people pay attention. People like drama and controversy.

Right? Because that's exactly how people think. When they are blocked in traffic by pro-Palestinian protesters and late for work or picking up their kids or can't make it to the hospital as they're having a heart attack, their first thought is always gosh, maybe these protestors have a good point. We really should "globalize the intifada." Or when an engineering student can't get into the library to study, their first thought is always "We are all Hamas." Who needs an education?

Obviously MLK and Gandhi were idiots with their non-violent protests. Totally ignored. Got them nowhere.

You seem to be one of those people who only likes the sanitized sepia toned version of MLK.

The reason MLK’s nonviolent protests were successful is because people were shocked that police were deployed against them.

Now the students are being nonviolent and you are cheering the use of militarized police tactics on students.

I do not for a minute equate Bull Connor and Birmingham with the police removing the student Hamas enthusiasts that overtook Columbia. There is no equivalence, and to favorably compare the two demonstrates how completely delusional the protesters and their supporters are.

I promise you if MLK was still alive he’d be supporting the protesters.

I’m not sure I believe that.

I flat out don’t.

Because of the content of the protest? Meaning you think he would support Israel over Palestine? Or because of the methodology of the protests? Meaning you think he wouldn’t support encampments?

All of the above.

Ok. I think you are wrong on both counts.

I believe he would have been with the underdog - the Palestinians in this case. At best he may just not taken sides. This is speculative though and you may be right and really not worth debating unless someone has some of his writings on the issue.

On the encampments - I think if he believed strongly in the cause, it would very much be a part of a civil disobedience protest. Coming up with ways to make the people uncomfortable is certainly in keeping with non violent protest movements. I agree that nobody should be ok with harassment of others (and I seriously doubt he would be). But honestly I don’t think the camp out (conceptually) would be outside his or Gandhi’s techniques.

We can’t have MLK time travel to the present day to prove who is right, but I stand by my view that he was a Christian man of his time who supported nonviolent protest and I don’t think those core opinions would change.

The violence at these protests has all been committed by the police or (for UCLA and Kahane) counter demonstrators

If you are recategorizing vandalism, graffiti writing, and defacement of statues and historic buildings as nonviolent. Which you apparently are doing.

DP. College protests have happened all over the country, and they have ranged in size and expression. It is not accurate to say that in every instance protestors engaged in vandalism, graffiti writing, and defacement of pubic property. (I'm guessing you weren't this triggered on Jan. 6 when protestors did this and much more. If I'm wrong, I stand corrected.)

Not the PP but I consider Jan 6th an insurrection where jail time was an appropriate punishment. I was absolutely in favor of punishments for those protestors who destroyed our public property.

I am equally in favor of punishment for those people who have destroyed parts of libraries and our great centers of education. The right to free speech does not extend to smearing feces on walls that poor, mostly POC janitorial staff will have to clean.

This is true of the jerks of the far left and the far right. What is appalling to me are the number of supposed progressives who were calling for jail time for J6 protestors while defending the vandalism and destruction of the pro-Palestinian protestors. It’s incredibly hypocritical.

I'm the PP you're responding to. You and I agree that people who destroyed public property in the course of campus protests (or storming the capitol) should be punished. I don't know which campus protest you're describing, but I agree that anyone who destroyed parts of libraries or smeared feces in public spaces should be punished. If any "supposed progressives" are saying that acts of vandalism and destruction are okay, then they are wrong.

However, the acts you describe did not happen everywhere. As I said, the campus protests have ranged in size and expression. I support peaceful protest, including on college campuses. But too many people are lumping ALL the protests and protestors together and painting them as being violent and destructive to the same degree EVERYWHERE, which is simply not true. I've lived all over the world, including in countries that didn't even allow public protests of any kind, and I stand by my belief that peaceful protest is a core principle of democracy.

Okay? Nobody is disagreeing with you on that.

What people are angry about, and what is losing sympathy across the country, are the people destroying college libraries and trapping POC janitors in buildings while making those same janitors pick up the trash they left everywhere. People are angry that people in ambulances aren’t getting to the hospital because protestors blocked a bridge. They are angry about protestors causing kids who are paying a fortune to go to schools to miss class.

They are angry at the vandalism, the obvious thoughtless privilege of the protestors, the selfishness masquerading as activism, and the entitlement. Nobody objects to peaceful protest and those have generally gone off without a hitch. But when you start acting the way a lot of these folks are, yes, people reasonably react negatively.

Again, the acts you describe are not happening everywhere or not happening to the same degree everywhere. The fact that you think so makes me think you're consuming media that is trying to whip up your anger. Maybe try to stop watching so much or explore other sources of information. Some of it is because conventional media loves drama in whatever form (who is going to cover images of peaceful, uneventful protests?). And some of it is intended to manipulate you, depending on your political leanings and news sources. Something about these protests is triggering you in a way that seems to really resonate with your world view. You may want to explore why.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is a very good letter. And the students who wrote it signed their names.

Great. They are welcome to write how they feel and their thoughts on the mattter.

Other Jewish people on campus feel differently and some have participated in the protests, like Jonathan Ben-Menachem. You can read his article here:
https://zeteo.com/p/i-am-a-jewish-student-at-columbia

I notice how the writers of this piece refer to people like Jonathan as "our Jewish peers who tokenize themselves"

You can notice all kinds of things, and keep not noticing the Jew hatred that's been unleashed since Hamas slaughtered, raped, and kidnapped 1200 Israelis on Oct 7.

The more you ignore and refuse to acknowledge the massive imbalance in atrocities committed by the Israeli side in this conflict, the less people hear you.

The more you ignore and refuse to acknowledge those atrocities and instead propagate false claims regarding the events of 10/7, the less people see you.

And the more you do both of those things while demanding that others focus only on YOUR interests and irrational feelings, the less people care about you at all.

The more these protesters pollute and vandalize college campuses, the less people hear or care about the. The more they do things like block highways, the less people hear and care about them. These strategies have been 100% asinine from the beginning.

Actually, the truth is that if they remained completely peaceful and quiet and focused only on protesting the killing of Palestinian civilians, that is when people would ignore them. It's only when they block highways and enter buildings that people pay attention. People like drama and controversy.

Right? Because that's exactly how people think. When they are blocked in traffic by pro-Palestinian protesters and late for work or picking up their kids or can't make it to the hospital as they're having a heart attack, their first thought is always gosh, maybe these protestors have a good point. We really should "globalize the intifada." Or when an engineering student can't get into the library to study, their first thought is always "We are all Hamas." Who needs an education?

Obviously MLK and Gandhi were idiots with their non-violent protests. Totally ignored. Got them nowhere.

You seem to be one of those people who only likes the sanitized sepia toned version of MLK.

The reason MLK’s nonviolent protests were successful is because people were shocked that police were deployed against them.

Now the students are being nonviolent and you are cheering the use of militarized police tactics on students.

I do not for a minute equate Bull Connor and Birmingham with the police removing the student Hamas enthusiasts that overtook Columbia. There is no equivalence, and to favorably compare the two demonstrates how completely delusional the protesters and their supporters are.

I promise you if MLK was still alive he’d be supporting the protesters.

I’m not sure I believe that.

I flat out don’t.

Because of the content of the protest? Meaning you think he would support Israel over Palestine? Or because of the methodology of the protests? Meaning you think he wouldn’t support encampments?

All of the above.

Ok. I think you are wrong on both counts.

I believe he would have been with the underdog - the Palestinians in this case. At best he may just not taken sides. This is speculative though and you may be right and really not worth debating unless someone has some of his writings on the issue.

On the encampments - I think if he believed strongly in the cause, it would very much be a part of a civil disobedience protest. Coming up with ways to make the people uncomfortable is certainly in keeping with non violent protest movements. I agree that nobody should be ok with harassment of others (and I seriously doubt he would be). But honestly I don’t think the camp out (conceptually) would be outside his or Gandhi’s techniques.

We can’t have MLK time travel to the present day to prove who is right, but I stand by my view that he was a Christian man of his time who supported nonviolent protest and I don’t think those core opinions would change.

The violence at these protests has all been committed by the police or (for UCLA and Kahane) counter demonstrators

If you are recategorizing vandalism, graffiti writing, and defacement of statues and historic buildings as nonviolent. Which you apparently are doing.

DP. College protests have happened all over the country, and they have ranged in size and expression. It is not accurate to say that in every instance protestors engaged in vandalism, graffiti writing, and defacement of pubic property. (I'm guessing you weren't this triggered on Jan. 6 when protestors did this and much more. If I'm wrong, I stand corrected.)

Not the PP but I consider Jan 6th an insurrection where jail time was an appropriate punishment. I was absolutely in favor of punishments for those protestors who destroyed our public property.

I am equally in favor of punishment for those people who have destroyed parts of libraries and our great centers of education. The right to free speech does not extend to smearing feces on walls that poor, mostly POC janitorial staff will have to clean.

This is true of the jerks of the far left and the far right. What is appalling to me are the number of supposed progressives who were calling for jail time for J6 protestors while defending the vandalism and destruction of the pro-Palestinian protestors. It’s incredibly hypocritical.

I'm the PP you're responding to. You and I agree that people who destroyed public property in the course of campus protests (or storming the capitol) should be punished. I don't know which campus protest you're describing, but I agree that anyone who destroyed parts of libraries or smeared feces in public spaces should be punished. If any "supposed progressives" are saying that acts of vandalism and destruction are okay, then they are wrong.

However, the acts you describe did not happen everywhere. As I said, the campus protests have ranged in size and expression. I support peaceful protest, including on college campuses. But too many people are lumping ALL the protests and protestors together and painting them as being violent and destructive to the same degree EVERYWHERE, which is simply not true. I've lived all over the world, including in countries that didn't even allow public protests of any kind, and I stand by my belief that peaceful protest is a core principle of democracy.

Okay? Nobody is disagreeing with you on that.

What people are angry about, and what is losing sympathy across the country, are the people destroying college libraries and trapping POC janitors in buildings while making those same janitors pick up the trash they left everywhere. People are angry that people in ambulances aren’t getting to the hospital because protestors blocked a bridge. They are angry about protestors causing kids who are paying a fortune to go to schools to miss class.

They are angry at the vandalism, the obvious thoughtless privilege of the protestors, the selfishness masquerading as activism, and the entitlement. Nobody objects to peaceful protest and those have generally gone off without a hitch. But when you start acting the way a lot of these folks are, yes, people reasonably react negatively.

Again, the acts you describe are not happening everywhere or not happening to the same degree everywhere. The fact that you think so makes me think you're consuming media that is trying to whip up your anger. Maybe try to stop watching so much or explore other sources of information. Some of it is because conventional media loves drama in whatever form (who is going to cover images of peaceful, uneventful protests?). And some of it is intended to manipulate you, depending on your political leanings and news sources. Something about these protests is triggering you in a way that seems to really resonate with your world view. You may want to explore why.

DP. At colleges and universities across the country, some protestors are negotiating with schools and coming to agreement and going home. Others are illegally encamped and are being arrested.

Are any of those protests changing people's minds, making Americans become more pro-Palestine and anti-Israel? Maybe. FWIW, the polls I have seen are split generationally - under 30 and over 30. That has nothing to do with the protests and instead has to do with an event that happened in this country a couple decades ago.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is a very good letter. And the students who wrote it signed their names.

Great. They are welcome to write how they feel and their thoughts on the mattter.

Other Jewish people on campus feel differently and some have participated in the protests, like Jonathan Ben-Menachem. You can read his article here:
https://zeteo.com/p/i-am-a-jewish-student-at-columbia

I notice how the writers of this piece refer to people like Jonathan as "our Jewish peers who tokenize themselves"

You can notice all kinds of things, and keep not noticing the Jew hatred that's been unleashed since Hamas slaughtered, raped, and kidnapped 1200 Israelis on Oct 7.

The more you ignore and refuse to acknowledge the massive imbalance in atrocities committed by the Israeli side in this conflict, the less people hear you.

The more you ignore and refuse to acknowledge those atrocities and instead propagate false claims regarding the events of 10/7, the less people see you.

And the more you do both of those things while demanding that others focus only on YOUR interests and irrational feelings, the less people care about you at all.

The more these protesters pollute and vandalize college campuses, the less people hear or care about the. The more they do things like block highways, the less people hear and care about them. These strategies have been 100% asinine from the beginning.

Actually, the truth is that if they remained completely peaceful and quiet and focused only on protesting the killing of Palestinian civilians, that is when people would ignore them. It's only when they block highways and enter buildings that people pay attention. People like drama and controversy.

Right? Because that's exactly how people think. When they are blocked in traffic by pro-Palestinian protesters and late for work or picking up their kids or can't make it to the hospital as they're having a heart attack, their first thought is always gosh, maybe these protestors have a good point. We really should "globalize the intifada." Or when an engineering student can't get into the library to study, their first thought is always "We are all Hamas." Who needs an education?

Obviously MLK and Gandhi were idiots with their non-violent protests. Totally ignored. Got them nowhere.

You seem to be one of those people who only likes the sanitized sepia toned version of MLK.

The reason MLK’s nonviolent protests were successful is because people were shocked that police were deployed against them.

Now the students are being nonviolent and you are cheering the use of militarized police tactics on students.

I do not for a minute equate Bull Connor and Birmingham with the police removing the student Hamas enthusiasts that overtook Columbia. There is no equivalence, and to favorably compare the two demonstrates how completely delusional the protesters and their supporters are.

I promise you if MLK was still alive he’d be supporting the protesters.

I’m not sure I believe that.

I flat out don’t.

Because of the content of the protest? Meaning you think he would support Israel over Palestine? Or because of the methodology of the protests? Meaning you think he wouldn’t support encampments?

All of the above.

Ok. I think you are wrong on both counts.

I believe he would have been with the underdog - the Palestinians in this case. At best he may just not taken sides. This is speculative though and you may be right and really not worth debating unless someone has some of his writings on the issue.

On the encampments - I think if he believed strongly in the cause, it would very much be a part of a civil disobedience protest. Coming up with ways to make the people uncomfortable is certainly in keeping with non violent protest movements. I agree that nobody should be ok with harassment of others (and I seriously doubt he would be). But honestly I don’t think the camp out (conceptually) would be outside his or Gandhi’s techniques.

We can’t have MLK time travel to the present day to prove who is right, but I stand by my view that he was a Christian man of his time who supported nonviolent protest and I don’t think those core opinions would change.

The violence at these protests has all been committed by the police or (for UCLA and Kahane) counter demonstrators

If you are recategorizing vandalism, graffiti writing, and defacement of statues and historic buildings as nonviolent. Which you apparently are doing.

DP. College protests have happened all over the country, and they have ranged in size and expression. It is not accurate to say that in every instance protestors engaged in vandalism, graffiti writing, and defacement of pubic property. (I'm guessing you weren't this triggered on Jan. 6 when protestors did this and much more. If I'm wrong, I stand corrected.)

Not the PP but I consider Jan 6th an insurrection where jail time was an appropriate punishment. I was absolutely in favor of punishments for those protestors who destroyed our public property.

I am equally in favor of punishment for those people who have destroyed parts of libraries and our great centers of education. The right to free speech does not extend to smearing feces on walls that poor, mostly POC janitorial staff will have to clean.

This is true of the jerks of the far left and the far right. What is appalling to me are the number of supposed progressives who were calling for jail time for J6 protestors while defending the vandalism and destruction of the pro-Palestinian protestors. It’s incredibly hypocritical.

I'm the PP you're responding to. You and I agree that people who destroyed public property in the course of campus protests (or storming the capitol) should be punished. I don't know which campus protest you're describing, but I agree that anyone who destroyed parts of libraries or smeared feces in public spaces should be punished. If any "supposed progressives" are saying that acts of vandalism and destruction are okay, then they are wrong.

However, the acts you describe did not happen everywhere. As I said, the campus protests have ranged in size and expression. I support peaceful protest, including on college campuses. But too many people are lumping ALL the protests and protestors together and painting them as being violent and destructive to the same degree EVERYWHERE, which is simply not true. I've lived all over the world, including in countries that didn't even allow public protests of any kind, and I stand by my belief that peaceful protest is a core principle of democracy.

Okay? Nobody is disagreeing with you on that.

What people are angry about, and what is losing sympathy across the country, are the people destroying college libraries and trapping POC janitors in buildings while making those same janitors pick up the trash they left everywhere. People are angry that people in ambulances aren’t getting to the hospital because protestors blocked a bridge. They are angry about protestors causing kids who are paying a fortune to go to schools to miss class.

They are angry at the vandalism, the obvious thoughtless privilege of the protestors, the selfishness masquerading as activism, and the entitlement. Nobody objects to peaceful protest and those have generally gone off without a hitch. But when you start acting the way a lot of these folks are, yes, people reasonably react negatively.

Again, the acts you describe are not happening everywhere or not happening to the same degree everywhere. The fact that you think so makes me think you're consuming media that is trying to whip up your anger. Maybe try to stop watching so much or explore other sources of information. Some of it is because conventional media loves drama in whatever form (who is going to cover images of peaceful, uneventful protests?). And some of it is intended to manipulate you, depending on your political leanings and news sources. Something about these protests is triggering you in a way that seems to really resonate with your world view. You may want to explore why.

Oh for Pete’s sake. This nonsense doesn’t even deserve a serious response. Your ridiculous condescension when contrasted with your obvious lack of awareness is entertaining, though.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is a very good letter. And the students who wrote it signed their names.

Great. They are welcome to write how they feel and their thoughts on the mattter.

Other Jewish people on campus feel differently and some have participated in the protests, like Jonathan Ben-Menachem. You can read his article here:
https://zeteo.com/p/i-am-a-jewish-student-at-columbia

I notice how the writers of this piece refer to people like Jonathan as "our Jewish peers who tokenize themselves"

You can notice all kinds of things, and keep not noticing the Jew hatred that's been unleashed since Hamas slaughtered, raped, and kidnapped 1200 Israelis on Oct 7.

The more you ignore and refuse to acknowledge the massive imbalance in atrocities committed by the Israeli side in this conflict, the less people hear you.

The more you ignore and refuse to acknowledge those atrocities and instead propagate false claims regarding the events of 10/7, the less people see you.

And the more you do both of those things while demanding that others focus only on YOUR interests and irrational feelings, the less people care about you at all.

The more these protesters pollute and vandalize college campuses, the less people hear or care about the. The more they do things like block highways, the less people hear and care about them. These strategies have been 100% asinine from the beginning.

Actually, the truth is that if they remained completely peaceful and quiet and focused only on protesting the killing of Palestinian civilians, that is when people would ignore them. It's only when they block highways and enter buildings that people pay attention. People like drama and controversy.

Right? Because that's exactly how people think. When they are blocked in traffic by pro-Palestinian protesters and late for work or picking up their kids or can't make it to the hospital as they're having a heart attack, their first thought is always gosh, maybe these protestors have a good point. We really should "globalize the intifada." Or when an engineering student can't get into the library to study, their first thought is always "We are all Hamas." Who needs an education?

Obviously MLK and Gandhi were idiots with their non-violent protests. Totally ignored. Got them nowhere.

You seem to be one of those people who only likes the sanitized sepia toned version of MLK.

The reason MLK’s nonviolent protests were successful is because people were shocked that police were deployed against them.

Now the students are being nonviolent and you are cheering the use of militarized police tactics on students.

I do not for a minute equate Bull Connor and Birmingham with the police removing the student Hamas enthusiasts that overtook Columbia. There is no equivalence, and to favorably compare the two demonstrates how completely delusional the protesters and their supporters are.

I promise you if MLK was still alive he’d be supporting the protesters.

I’m not sure I believe that.

I flat out don’t.

Because of the content of the protest? Meaning you think he would support Israel over Palestine? Or because of the methodology of the protests? Meaning you think he wouldn’t support encampments?

All of the above.

Ok. I think you are wrong on both counts.

I believe he would have been with the underdog - the Palestinians in this case. At best he may just not taken sides. This is speculative though and you may be right and really not worth debating unless someone has some of his writings on the issue.

On the encampments - I think if he believed strongly in the cause, it would very much be a part of a civil disobedience protest. Coming up with ways to make the people uncomfortable is certainly in keeping with non violent protest movements. I agree that nobody should be ok with harassment of others (and I seriously doubt he would be). But honestly I don’t think the camp out (conceptually) would be outside his or Gandhi’s techniques.

We can’t have MLK time travel to the present day to prove who is right, but I stand by my view that he was a Christian man of his time who supported nonviolent protest and I don’t think those core opinions would change.

I knew people who knew MLK as well as The Mahatma (Gandhi), and I am 99.99% sure they would have been broadly supportive of the protests.

So we are now down to I knew I knew? MLK expressed strong support for Israel when he was alive.

You seem to mistake “support for Israel” as a license for Israel to do literally whatever it wants to do.

Like essentially everything else in life, most sane people afford support on a conditional basis - as in, I support Israel as long as Israel upholds at least some minimum level of values that we expect of nations AND doesn’t engage in policies and actions that shock the conscience and starkly conflict with those values.

Once a nation so clearly violates those conditions, why should ANYONE support them with weapons, shield them from accountability at the U.N., etc.?

Everyone is conjecturing what MLK would approve of based on “people who know him” etc etc. all suppositions. However, he actually praised Israel and the Jewish people for standing up for civil rights. So from that I can draw my own deductions what he thinks of the rabble college protests and which side he would be on.

Hold up - are you SERIOUSLY trying to argue that because MLK may have supported the policies and actions of Israel 50 years ago that related to the protection of Jewish civil rights, he therefore must have also approved of every State of Israel policy and action then? And he therefore would assume of its policies and actions today?

So once support is extended on one issue, it’s automatically extended on all issues, and there nothing that can be done to lose that support?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is a very good letter. And the students who wrote it signed their names.

Great. They are welcome to write how they feel and their thoughts on the mattter.

Other Jewish people on campus feel differently and some have participated in the protests, like Jonathan Ben-Menachem. You can read his article here:
https://zeteo.com/p/i-am-a-jewish-student-at-columbia

I notice how the writers of this piece refer to people like Jonathan as "our Jewish peers who tokenize themselves"

You can notice all kinds of things, and keep not noticing the Jew hatred that's been unleashed since Hamas slaughtered, raped, and kidnapped 1200 Israelis on Oct 7.

The more you ignore and refuse to acknowledge the massive imbalance in atrocities committed by the Israeli side in this conflict, the less people hear you.

The more you ignore and refuse to acknowledge those atrocities and instead propagate false claims regarding the events of 10/7, the less people see you.

And the more you do both of those things while demanding that others focus only on YOUR interests and irrational feelings, the less people care about you at all.

The more these protesters pollute and vandalize college campuses, the less people hear or care about the. The more they do things like block highways, the less people hear and care about them. These strategies have been 100% asinine from the beginning.

Actually, the truth is that if they remained completely peaceful and quiet and focused only on protesting the killing of Palestinian civilians, that is when people would ignore them. It's only when they block highways and enter buildings that people pay attention. People like drama and controversy.

Right? Because that's exactly how people think. When they are blocked in traffic by pro-Palestinian protesters and late for work or picking up their kids or can't make it to the hospital as they're having a heart attack, their first thought is always gosh, maybe these protestors have a good point. We really should "globalize the intifada." Or when an engineering student can't get into the library to study, their first thought is always "We are all Hamas." Who needs an education?

Obviously MLK and Gandhi were idiots with their non-violent protests. Totally ignored. Got them nowhere.

You seem to be one of those people who only likes the sanitized sepia toned version of MLK.

The reason MLK’s nonviolent protests were successful is because people were shocked that police were deployed against them.

Now the students are being nonviolent and you are cheering the use of militarized police tactics on students.

I do not for a minute equate Bull Connor and Birmingham with the police removing the student Hamas enthusiasts that overtook Columbia. There is no equivalence, and to favorably compare the two demonstrates how completely delusional the protesters and their supporters are.

I promise you if MLK was still alive he’d be supporting the protesters.

I’m not sure I believe that.

I flat out don’t.

Because of the content of the protest? Meaning you think he would support Israel over Palestine? Or because of the methodology of the protests? Meaning you think he wouldn’t support encampments?

All of the above.

Ok. I think you are wrong on both counts.

I believe he would have been with the underdog - the Palestinians in this case. At best he may just not taken sides. This is speculative though and you may be right and really not worth debating unless someone has some of his writings on the issue.

On the encampments - I think if he believed strongly in the cause, it would very much be a part of a civil disobedience protest. Coming up with ways to make the people uncomfortable is certainly in keeping with non violent protest movements. I agree that nobody should be ok with harassment of others (and I seriously doubt he would be). But honestly I don’t think the camp out (conceptually) would be outside his or Gandhi’s techniques.

We can’t have MLK time travel to the present day to prove who is right, but I stand by my view that he was a Christian man of his time who supported nonviolent protest and I don’t think those core opinions would change.

The violence at these protests has all been committed by the police or (for UCLA and Kahane) counter demonstrators

If you are recategorizing vandalism, graffiti writing, and defacement of statues and historic buildings as nonviolent. Which you apparently are doing.

Yes. I don’t support the graffiti etc but it’s not violence.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is a very good letter. And the students who wrote it signed their names.

Great. They are welcome to write how they feel and their thoughts on the mattter.

Other Jewish people on campus feel differently and some have participated in the protests, like Jonathan Ben-Menachem. You can read his article here:
https://zeteo.com/p/i-am-a-jewish-student-at-columbia

I notice how the writers of this piece refer to people like Jonathan as "our Jewish peers who tokenize themselves"

You can notice all kinds of things, and keep not noticing the Jew hatred that's been unleashed since Hamas slaughtered, raped, and kidnapped 1200 Israelis on Oct 7.

The more you ignore and refuse to acknowledge the massive imbalance in atrocities committed by the Israeli side in this conflict, the less people hear you.

The more you ignore and refuse to acknowledge those atrocities and instead propagate false claims regarding the events of 10/7, the less people see you.

And the more you do both of those things while demanding that others focus only on YOUR interests and irrational feelings, the less people care about you at all.

The more these protesters pollute and vandalize college campuses, the less people hear or care about the. The more they do things like block highways, the less people hear and care about them. These strategies have been 100% asinine from the beginning.

Actually, the truth is that if they remained completely peaceful and quiet and focused only on protesting the killing of Palestinian civilians, that is when people would ignore them. It's only when they block highways and enter buildings that people pay attention. People like drama and controversy.

Right? Because that's exactly how people think. When they are blocked in traffic by pro-Palestinian protesters and late for work or picking up their kids or can't make it to the hospital as they're having a heart attack, their first thought is always gosh, maybe these protestors have a good point. We really should "globalize the intifada." Or when an engineering student can't get into the library to study, their first thought is always "We are all Hamas." Who needs an education?

Obviously MLK and Gandhi were idiots with their non-violent protests. Totally ignored. Got them nowhere.

You seem to be one of those people who only likes the sanitized sepia toned version of MLK.

The reason MLK’s nonviolent protests were successful is because people were shocked that police were deployed against them.

Now the students are being nonviolent and you are cheering the use of militarized police tactics on students.

I do not for a minute equate Bull Connor and Birmingham with the police removing the student Hamas enthusiasts that overtook Columbia. There is no equivalence, and to favorably compare the two demonstrates how completely delusional the protesters and their supporters are.

I promise you if MLK was still alive he’d be supporting the protesters.

I’m not sure I believe that.

I flat out don’t.

Because of the content of the protest? Meaning you think he would support Israel over Palestine? Or because of the methodology of the protests? Meaning you think he wouldn’t support encampments?

All of the above.

Ok. I think you are wrong on both counts.

I believe he would have been with the underdog - the Palestinians in this case. At best he may just not taken sides. This is speculative though and you may be right and really not worth debating unless someone has some of his writings on the issue.

On the encampments - I think if he believed strongly in the cause, it would very much be a part of a civil disobedience protest. Coming up with ways to make the people uncomfortable is certainly in keeping with non violent protest movements. I agree that nobody should be ok with harassment of others (and I seriously doubt he would be). But honestly I don’t think the camp out (conceptually) would be outside his or Gandhi’s techniques.

We can’t have MLK time travel to the present day to prove who is right, but I stand by my view that he was a Christian man of his time who supported nonviolent protest and I don’t think those core opinions would change.

The violence at these protests has all been committed by the police or (for UCLA and Kahane) counter demonstrators

If you are recategorizing vandalism, graffiti writing, and defacement of statues and historic buildings as nonviolent. Which you apparently are doing.

DP. College protests have happened all over the country, and they have ranged in size and expression. It is not accurate to say that in every instance protestors engaged in vandalism, graffiti writing, and defacement of pubic property. (I'm guessing you weren't this triggered on Jan. 6 when protestors did this and much more. If I'm wrong, I stand corrected.)

Not the PP but I consider Jan 6th an insurrection where jail time was an appropriate punishment. I was absolutely in favor of punishments for those protestors who destroyed our public property.

I am equally in favor of punishment for those people who have destroyed parts of libraries and our great centers of education. The right to free speech does not extend to smearing feces on walls that poor, mostly POC janitorial staff will have to clean.

This is true of the jerks of the far left and the far right. What is appalling to me are the number of supposed progressives who were calling for jail time for J6 protestors while defending the vandalism and destruction of the pro-Palestinian protestors. It’s incredibly hypocritical.

I'm the PP you're responding to. You and I agree that people who destroyed public property in the course of campus protests (or storming the capitol) should be punished. I don't know which campus protest you're describing, but I agree that anyone who destroyed parts of libraries or smeared feces in public spaces should be punished. If any "supposed progressives" are saying that acts of vandalism and destruction are okay, then they are wrong.

However, the acts you describe did not happen everywhere. As I said, the campus protests have ranged in size and expression. I support peaceful protest, including on college campuses. But too many people are lumping ALL the protests and protestors together and painting them as being violent and destructive to the same degree EVERYWHERE, which is simply not true. I've lived all over the world, including in countries that didn't even allow public protests of any kind, and I stand by my belief that peaceful protest is a core principle of democracy.

Okay? Nobody is disagreeing with you on that.

What people are angry about, and what is losing sympathy across the country, are the people destroying college libraries and trapping POC janitors in buildings while making those same janitors pick up the trash they left everywhere. People are angry that people in ambulances aren’t getting to the hospital because protestors blocked a bridge. They are angry about protestors causing kids who are paying a fortune to go to schools to miss class.

They are angry at the vandalism, the obvious thoughtless privilege of the protestors, the selfishness masquerading as activism, and the entitlement. Nobody objects to peaceful protest and those have generally gone off without a hitch. But when you start acting the way a lot of these folks are, yes, people reasonably react negatively.

Again, the acts you describe are not happening everywhere or not happening to the same degree everywhere. The fact that you think so makes me think you're consuming media that is trying to whip up your anger. Maybe try to stop watching so much or explore other sources of information. Some of it is because conventional media loves drama in whatever form (who is going to cover images of peaceful, uneventful protests?). And some of it is intended to manipulate you, depending on your political leanings and news sources. Something about these protests is triggering you in a way that seems to really resonate with your world view. You may want to explore why.

Oh for Pete’s sake. This nonsense doesn’t even deserve a serious response. Your ridiculous condescension when contrasted with your obvious lack of awareness is entertaining, though.

You are easily triggered.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We should fight to the death anyone calling for the death of the United States. Period.

You are in the wrong country. Here we don't unceremoniously kill people for their words. We have a judicial system for extreme cases.

You are part of the problem in this country, actually. You don't believe in rule of law.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is a very good letter. And the students who wrote it signed their names.

Great. They are welcome to write how they feel and their thoughts on the mattter.

Other Jewish people on campus feel differently and some have participated in the protests, like Jonathan Ben-Menachem. You can read his article here:
https://zeteo.com/p/i-am-a-jewish-student-at-columbia

I notice how the writers of this piece refer to people like Jonathan as "our Jewish peers who tokenize themselves"

You can notice all kinds of things, and keep not noticing the Jew hatred that's been unleashed since Hamas slaughtered, raped, and kidnapped 1200 Israelis on Oct 7.

The more you ignore and refuse to acknowledge the massive imbalance in atrocities committed by the Israeli side in this conflict, the less people hear you.

The more you ignore and refuse to acknowledge those atrocities and instead propagate false claims regarding the events of 10/7, the less people see you.

And the more you do both of those things while demanding that others focus only on YOUR interests and irrational feelings, the less people care about you at all.

The more these protesters pollute and vandalize college campuses, the less people hear or care about the. The more they do things like block highways, the less people hear and care about them. These strategies have been 100% asinine from the beginning.

Actually, the truth is that if they remained completely peaceful and quiet and focused only on protesting the killing of Palestinian civilians, that is when people would ignore them. It's only when they block highways and enter buildings that people pay attention. People like drama and controversy.

Right? Because that's exactly how people think. When they are blocked in traffic by pro-Palestinian protesters and late for work or picking up their kids or can't make it to the hospital as they're having a heart attack, their first thought is always gosh, maybe these protestors have a good point. We really should "globalize the intifada." Or when an engineering student can't get into the library to study, their first thought is always "We are all Hamas." Who needs an education?

Obviously MLK and Gandhi were idiots with their non-violent protests. Totally ignored. Got them nowhere.

You seem to be one of those people who only likes the sanitized sepia toned version of MLK.

The reason MLK’s nonviolent protests were successful is because people were shocked that police were deployed against them.

Now the students are being nonviolent and you are cheering the use of militarized police tactics on students.

I do not for a minute equate Bull Connor and Birmingham with the police removing the student Hamas enthusiasts that overtook Columbia. There is no equivalence, and to favorably compare the two demonstrates how completely delusional the protesters and their supporters are.

I promise you if MLK was still alive he’d be supporting the protesters.

I’m not sure I believe that.

I flat out don’t.

Because of the content of the protest? Meaning you think he would support Israel over Palestine? Or because of the methodology of the protests? Meaning you think he wouldn’t support encampments?

All of the above.

Ok. I think you are wrong on both counts.

I believe he would have been with the underdog - the Palestinians in this case. At best he may just not taken sides. This is speculative though and you may be right and really not worth debating unless someone has some of his writings on the issue.

On the encampments - I think if he believed strongly in the cause, it would very much be a part of a civil disobedience protest. Coming up with ways to make the people uncomfortable is certainly in keeping with non violent protest movements. I agree that nobody should be ok with harassment of others (and I seriously doubt he would be). But honestly I don’t think the camp out (conceptually) would be outside his or Gandhi’s techniques.

We can’t have MLK time travel to the present day to prove who is right, but I stand by my view that he was a Christian man of his time who supported nonviolent protest and I don’t think those core opinions would change.

I knew people who knew MLK as well as The Mahatma (Gandhi), and I am 99.99% sure they would have been broadly supportive of the protests.

So we are now down to I knew I knew? MLK expressed strong support for Israel when he was alive.

You seem to mistake “support for Israel” as a license for Israel to do literally whatever it wants to do.

Like essentially everything else in life, most sane people afford support on a conditional basis - as in, I support Israel as long as Israel upholds at least some minimum level of values that we expect of nations AND doesn’t engage in policies and actions that shock the conscience and starkly conflict with those values.

Once a nation so clearly violates those conditions, why should ANYONE support them with weapons, shield them from accountability at the U.N., etc.?

DP and thank you, PP, you have distilled how I feel and said it in a reasonable and rational way.

Many of us found the attacks by Hamas horrifying and unjustified. I recognize the right of Israel to exist. But I do not think razing Gaza is included in that right. I support those who protest the destruction of Gaza if they remain peaceful. Protesters who destroy property or say antisemitic things or similar no longer have my support. They should face consequences appropriate for their actions, but not violence or doxing.

Why is basic civility and nuanced thinking so hard to find.