Protests on college campuses

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:This is a very good letter. And the students who wrote it signed their names.

Great. They are welcome to write how they feel and their thoughts on the mattter.

Other Jewish people on campus feel differently and some have participated in the protests, like Jonathan Ben-Menachem. You can read his article here:
https://zeteo.com/p/i-am-a-jewish-student-at-columbia

I notice how the writers of this piece refer to people like Jonathan as "our Jewish peers who tokenize themselves"

You can notice all kinds of things, and keep not noticing the Jew hatred that's been unleashed since Hamas slaughtered, raped, and kidnapped 1200 Israelis on Oct 7.

The more you ignore and refuse to acknowledge the massive imbalance in atrocities committed by the Israeli side in this conflict, the less people hear you.

The more you ignore and refuse to acknowledge those atrocities and instead propagate false claims regarding the events of 10/7, the less people see you.

And the more you do both of those things while demanding that others focus only on YOUR interests and irrational feelings, the less people care about you at all.

The more these protesters pollute and vandalize college campuses, the less people hear or care about the. The more they do things like block highways, the less people hear and care about them. These strategies have been 100% asinine from the beginning.

Actually, the truth is that if they remained completely peaceful and quiet and focused only on protesting the killing of Palestinian civilians, that is when people would ignore them. It's only when they block highways and enter buildings that people pay attention. People like drama and controversy.

Right? Because that's exactly how people think. When they are blocked in traffic by pro-Palestinian protesters and late for work or picking up their kids or can't make it to the hospital as they're having a heart attack, their first thought is always gosh, maybe these protestors have a good point. We really should "globalize the intifada." Or when an engineering student can't get into the library to study, their first thought is always "We are all Hamas." Who needs an education?

Obviously MLK and Gandhi were idiots with their non-violent protests. Totally ignored. Got them nowhere.

You seem to be one of those people who only likes the sanitized sepia toned version of MLK.

The reason MLK’s nonviolent protests were successful is because people were shocked that police were deployed against them.

Now the students are being nonviolent and you are cheering the use of militarized police tactics on students.

I do not for a minute equate Bull Connor and Birmingham with the police removing the student Hamas enthusiasts that overtook Columbia. There is no equivalence, and to favorably compare the two demonstrates how completely delusional the protesters and their supporters are.

I promise you if MLK was still alive he’d be supporting the protesters.

I’m not sure I believe that.

I flat out don’t.

Because of the content of the protest? Meaning you think he would support Israel over Palestine? Or because of the methodology of the protests? Meaning you think he wouldn’t support encampments?

All of the above.

Ok. I think you are wrong on both counts.

I believe he would have been with the underdog - the Palestinians in this case. At best he may just not taken sides. This is speculative though and you may be right and really not worth debating unless someone has some of his writings on the issue.

On the encampments - I think if he believed strongly in the cause, it would very much be a part of a civil disobedience protest. Coming up with ways to make the people uncomfortable is certainly in keeping with non violent protest movements. I agree that nobody should be ok with harassment of others (and I seriously doubt he would be). But honestly I don’t think the camp out (conceptually) would be outside his or Gandhi’s techniques.

We can’t have MLK time travel to the present day to prove who is right, but I stand by my view that he was a Christian man of his time who supported nonviolent protest and I don’t think those core opinions would change.

I knew people who knew MLK as well as The Mahatma (Gandhi), and I am 99.99% sure they would have been broadly supportive of the protests.

So we are now down to I knew I knew? MLK expressed strong support for Israel when he was alive.

You seem to mistake “support for Israel” as a license for Israel to do literally whatever it wants to do.

Like essentially everything else in life, most sane people afford support on a conditional basis - as in, I support Israel as long as Israel upholds at least some minimum level of values that we expect of nations AND doesn’t engage in policies and actions that shock the conscience and starkly conflict with those values.

Once a nation so clearly violates those conditions, why should ANYONE support them with weapons, shield them from accountability at the U.N., etc.?

DP and thank you, PP, you have distilled how I feel and said it in a reasonable and rational way.

Many of us found the attacks by Hamas horrifying and unjustified. I recognize the right of Israel to exist. But I do not think razing Gaza is included in that right. I support those who protest the destruction of Gaza if they remain peaceful. Protesters who destroy property or say antisemitic things or similar no longer have my support. They should face consequences appropriate for their actions, but not violence or doxing.

Why is basic civility and nuanced thinking so hard to find.

+1

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Our students are useful idiots being propagandized. Combine the sheep culture they grew up in fostered by social media, the intellectually lazy DEI curriculum they experienced in their schooling, and the larger oversimplified “us v them” dynamic we are all living in - and what results? They are now the tools of foreign interests. Some/most have good intentions to right the injustices they see, but have such a gap in historical & geopolitical understanding. And again, this is not a generation that was ever taught to cultivate their complex thinking skills. We have entered very dangerous times.

I’m pretty sure, PP, that it’s you and your fellow boomers who lack critical thinking skills and bear the hallmarks of decades of propaganda. American support for Israel over recent decades was largely the result of corruption that permeated almost all of elite America and has risked the country’s future. It’s a real sign of hope the kids have seen through the lies of prior generations. They haven’t defeated the corrupt establishment yet, but we are seeing the beginning of the end of the blank check support for Israel, a fascist ethnostate that has long practiced apartheid and is now perpetuating a genocide.

DP. Your ridiculous and ageist attempt to use “boomers” as an insult undermines any point you might have had.

These protests are very unpopular, including with Gen Z kids who aren’t cosplaying as revolutionaries. You should try talking to Gen Zers who aren’t in your bubble. “The kids” see through you.

NP. Whatever you want to call yourself, PP, you are clearly trapped in a fever dream, one that is much worse and much more obvious than whatever problems the kids on campus might have.

Please make your point coherently, PP. I don’t take drugs like you.

And they still failed to address me. I have called several times for an open and rational conversation. The name calling stopped and now it’s just silence.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is a very good letter. And the students who wrote it signed their names.

Great. They are welcome to write how they feel and their thoughts on the mattter.

Other Jewish people on campus feel differently and some have participated in the protests, like Jonathan Ben-Menachem. You can read his article here:
https://zeteo.com/p/i-am-a-jewish-student-at-columbia

I notice how the writers of this piece refer to people like Jonathan as "our Jewish peers who tokenize themselves"

You can notice all kinds of things, and keep not noticing the Jew hatred that's been unleashed since Hamas slaughtered, raped, and kidnapped 1200 Israelis on Oct 7.

The more you ignore and refuse to acknowledge the massive imbalance in atrocities committed by the Israeli side in this conflict, the less people hear you.

The more you ignore and refuse to acknowledge those atrocities and instead propagate false claims regarding the events of 10/7, the less people see you.

And the more you do both of those things while demanding that others focus only on YOUR interests and irrational feelings, the less people care about you at all.

The more these protesters pollute and vandalize college campuses, the less people hear or care about the. The more they do things like block highways, the less people hear and care about them. These strategies have been 100% asinine from the beginning.

Actually, the truth is that if they remained completely peaceful and quiet and focused only on protesting the killing of Palestinian civilians, that is when people would ignore them. It's only when they block highways and enter buildings that people pay attention. People like drama and controversy.

Right? Because that's exactly how people think. When they are blocked in traffic by pro-Palestinian protesters and late for work or picking up their kids or can't make it to the hospital as they're having a heart attack, their first thought is always gosh, maybe these protestors have a good point. We really should "globalize the intifada." Or when an engineering student can't get into the library to study, their first thought is always "We are all Hamas." Who needs an education?

Obviously MLK and Gandhi were idiots with their non-violent protests. Totally ignored. Got them nowhere.

You seem to be one of those people who only likes the sanitized sepia toned version of MLK.

The reason MLK’s nonviolent protests were successful is because people were shocked that police were deployed against them.

Now the students are being nonviolent and you are cheering the use of militarized police tactics on students.

I do not for a minute equate Bull Connor and Birmingham with the police removing the student Hamas enthusiasts that overtook Columbia. There is no equivalence, and to favorably compare the two demonstrates how completely delusional the protesters and their supporters are.

I promise you if MLK was still alive he’d be supporting the protesters.

I’m not sure I believe that.

I flat out don’t.

Because of the content of the protest? Meaning you think he would support Israel over Palestine? Or because of the methodology of the protests? Meaning you think he wouldn’t support encampments?

I’m not the PP but I do not believe MLK would want to involve himself with protests that are overwhelmingly driven by white, wealthy, and incredibly privileged students. And while I believe MLK would have had great sympathy for the Palestinians, he would have also had deep horror about what happened on 10/7. I think MLK would have been appalled at the pro-Hamas imagery at the protests, for instance.

These protests do not have a great deal of support, even among people whose political sympathies might lie with the Palestinians but who understand that the Israeli Palestinian history is not a black and white easily solved issue. I do not think it’s easy to glibly say that MLk would have supported the protestors.

There are a number of white and/or wealthy kids in these protests and the kids at the Ivies are by definition incredibly privileged. But I think many of the protests are driven by Palestinian and/or Muslim students who are overwhelmingly not white. Other students including white students and Jewish students are also joining in but not driving the current protests or the encampments.

That’s not what their own videos show. These are protests that are organized and driven largely by wealthy, privileged, and frequently white kids. That’s not to say that there aren’t Muslim and/or Palestinian organizers, of course they are. But the protests that are getting graduations cancelled at the elite schools in particular, the ones getting the most press coverage and with the most violence and defacement of property: these are the protests of wealthy, incredibly privileged kids that are frequently and sometimes overwhelmingly white. Just the equipment that you can see in the encampments demonstrate clear access to significant funds. These are not created by poor, struggling people. They are backed by a lot of wealth.

That was never MLK’s group, and I do not think he would have aligned himself with them.

Yes to most of the above. But what you are missing is that these are organized demonstrations with funds tied to foreign interests & terrorists groups. And they actually are taking place on majority minority campuses as well. Those schools just aren’t being discussed in the media.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is a very good letter. And the students who wrote it signed their names.

Great. They are welcome to write how they feel and their thoughts on the mattter.

Other Jewish people on campus feel differently and some have participated in the protests, like Jonathan Ben-Menachem. You can read his article here:
https://zeteo.com/p/i-am-a-jewish-student-at-columbia

I notice how the writers of this piece refer to people like Jonathan as "our Jewish peers who tokenize themselves"

You can notice all kinds of things, and keep not noticing the Jew hatred that's been unleashed since Hamas slaughtered, raped, and kidnapped 1200 Israelis on Oct 7.

The more you ignore and refuse to acknowledge the massive imbalance in atrocities committed by the Israeli side in this conflict, the less people hear you.

The more you ignore and refuse to acknowledge those atrocities and instead propagate false claims regarding the events of 10/7, the less people see you.

And the more you do both of those things while demanding that others focus only on YOUR interests and irrational feelings, the less people care about you at all.

The more these protesters pollute and vandalize college campuses, the less people hear or care about the. The more they do things like block highways, the less people hear and care about them. These strategies have been 100% asinine from the beginning.

Actually, the truth is that if they remained completely peaceful and quiet and focused only on protesting the killing of Palestinian civilians, that is when people would ignore them. It's only when they block highways and enter buildings that people pay attention. People like drama and controversy.

Right? Because that's exactly how people think. When they are blocked in traffic by pro-Palestinian protesters and late for work or picking up their kids or can't make it to the hospital as they're having a heart attack, their first thought is always gosh, maybe these protestors have a good point. We really should "globalize the intifada." Or when an engineering student can't get into the library to study, their first thought is always "We are all Hamas." Who needs an education?

Obviously MLK and Gandhi were idiots with their non-violent protests. Totally ignored. Got them nowhere.

You seem to be one of those people who only likes the sanitized sepia toned version of MLK.

The reason MLK’s nonviolent protests were successful is because people were shocked that police were deployed against them.

Now the students are being nonviolent and you are cheering the use of militarized police tactics on students.

I do not for a minute equate Bull Connor and Birmingham with the police removing the student Hamas enthusiasts that overtook Columbia. There is no equivalence, and to favorably compare the two demonstrates how completely delusional the protesters and their supporters are.

I promise you if MLK was still alive he’d be supporting the protesters.

I’m not sure I believe that.

I flat out don’t.

Because of the content of the protest? Meaning you think he would support Israel over Palestine? Or because of the methodology of the protests? Meaning you think he wouldn’t support encampments?

All of the above.

Ok. I think you are wrong on both counts.

I believe he would have been with the underdog - the Palestinians in this case. At best he may just not taken sides. This is speculative though and you may be right and really not worth debating unless someone has some of his writings on the issue.

On the encampments - I think if he believed strongly in the cause, it would very much be a part of a civil disobedience protest. Coming up with ways to make the people uncomfortable is certainly in keeping with non violent protest movements. I agree that nobody should be ok with harassment of others (and I seriously doubt he would be). But honestly I don’t think the camp out (conceptually) would be outside his or Gandhi’s techniques.

We can’t have MLK time travel to the present day to prove who is right, but I stand by my view that he was a Christian man of his time who supported nonviolent protest and I don’t think those core opinions would change.

The violence at these protests has all been committed by the police or (for UCLA and Kahane) counter demonstrators

If you are recategorizing vandalism, graffiti writing, and defacement of statues and historic buildings as nonviolent. Which you apparently are doing.

DP. College protests have happened all over the country, and they have ranged in size and expression. It is not accurate to say that in every instance protestors engaged in vandalism, graffiti writing, and defacement of pubic property. (I'm guessing you weren't this triggered on Jan. 6 when protestors did this and much more. If I'm wrong, I stand corrected.)

Not the PP but I consider Jan 6th an insurrection where jail time was an appropriate punishment. I was absolutely in favor of punishments for those protestors who destroyed our public property.

I am equally in favor of punishment for those people who have destroyed parts of libraries and our great centers of education. The right to free speech does not extend to smearing feces on walls that poor, mostly POC janitorial staff will have to clean.

This is true of the jerks of the far left and the far right. What is appalling to me are the number of supposed progressives who were calling for jail time for J6 protestors while defending the vandalism and destruction of the pro-Palestinian protestors. It’s incredibly hypocritical.

I'm the PP you're responding to. You and I agree that people who destroyed public property in the course of campus protests (or storming the capitol) should be punished. I don't know which campus protest you're describing, but I agree that anyone who destroyed parts of libraries or smeared feces in public spaces should be punished. If any "supposed progressives" are saying that acts of vandalism and destruction are okay, then they are wrong.

However, the acts you describe did not happen everywhere. As I said, the campus protests have ranged in size and expression. I support peaceful protest, including on college campuses. But too many people are lumping ALL the protests and protestors together and painting them as being violent and destructive to the same degree EVERYWHERE, which is simply not true. I've lived all over the world, including in countries that didn't even allow public protests of any kind, and I stand by my belief that peaceful protest is a core principle of democracy.

Okay? Nobody is disagreeing with you on that.

What people are angry about, and what is losing sympathy across the country, are the people destroying college libraries and trapping POC janitors in buildings while making those same janitors pick up the trash they left everywhere. People are angry that people in ambulances aren’t getting to the hospital because protestors blocked a bridge. They are angry about protestors causing kids who are paying a fortune to go to schools to miss class.

They are angry at the vandalism, the obvious thoughtless privilege of the protestors, the selfishness masquerading as activism, and the entitlement. Nobody objects to peaceful protest and those have generally gone off without a hitch. But when you start acting the way a lot of these folks are, yes, people reasonably react negatively.

Again, the acts you describe are not happening everywhere or not happening to the same degree everywhere. The fact that you think so makes me think you're consuming media that is trying to whip up your anger. Maybe try to stop watching so much or explore other sources of information. Some of it is because conventional media loves drama in whatever form (who is going to cover images of peaceful, uneventful protests?). And some of it is intended to manipulate you, depending on your political leanings and news sources. Something about these protests is triggering you in a way that seems to really resonate with your world view. You may want to explore why.

Oh for Pete’s sake. This nonsense doesn’t even deserve a serious response. Your ridiculous condescension when contrasted with your obvious lack of awareness is entertaining, though.

DP. You have gone dismissive because PP is right. People are making generalizations about all protests based on information from their own echo chambers. I think PP hit a nerve.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is a very good letter. And the students who wrote it signed their names.

Great. They are welcome to write how they feel and their thoughts on the mattter.

Other Jewish people on campus feel differently and some have participated in the protests, like Jonathan Ben-Menachem. You can read his article here:
https://zeteo.com/p/i-am-a-jewish-student-at-columbia

I notice how the writers of this piece refer to people like Jonathan as "our Jewish peers who tokenize themselves"

You can notice all kinds of things, and keep not noticing the Jew hatred that's been unleashed since Hamas slaughtered, raped, and kidnapped 1200 Israelis on Oct 7.

The more you ignore and refuse to acknowledge the massive imbalance in atrocities committed by the Israeli side in this conflict, the less people hear you.

The more you ignore and refuse to acknowledge those atrocities and instead propagate false claims regarding the events of 10/7, the less people see you.

And the more you do both of those things while demanding that others focus only on YOUR interests and irrational feelings, the less people care about you at all.

The more these protesters pollute and vandalize college campuses, the less people hear or care about the. The more they do things like block highways, the less people hear and care about them. These strategies have been 100% asinine from the beginning.

Actually, the truth is that if they remained completely peaceful and quiet and focused only on protesting the killing of Palestinian civilians, that is when people would ignore them. It's only when they block highways and enter buildings that people pay attention. People like drama and controversy.

Right? Because that's exactly how people think. When they are blocked in traffic by pro-Palestinian protesters and late for work or picking up their kids or can't make it to the hospital as they're having a heart attack, their first thought is always gosh, maybe these protestors have a good point. We really should "globalize the intifada." Or when an engineering student can't get into the library to study, their first thought is always "We are all Hamas." Who needs an education?

Obviously MLK and Gandhi were idiots with their non-violent protests. Totally ignored. Got them nowhere.

You seem to be one of those people who only likes the sanitized sepia toned version of MLK.

The reason MLK’s nonviolent protests were successful is because people were shocked that police were deployed against them.

Now the students are being nonviolent and you are cheering the use of militarized police tactics on students.

I do not for a minute equate Bull Connor and Birmingham with the police removing the student Hamas enthusiasts that overtook Columbia. There is no equivalence, and to favorably compare the two demonstrates how completely delusional the protesters and their supporters are.

I promise you if MLK was still alive he’d be supporting the protesters.

I’m not sure I believe that.

I flat out don’t.

Because of the content of the protest? Meaning you think he would support Israel over Palestine? Or because of the methodology of the protests? Meaning you think he wouldn’t support encampments?

All of the above.

Ok. I think you are wrong on both counts.

I believe he would have been with the underdog - the Palestinians in this case. At best he may just not taken sides. This is speculative though and you may be right and really not worth debating unless someone has some of his writings on the issue.

On the encampments - I think if he believed strongly in the cause, it would very much be a part of a civil disobedience protest. Coming up with ways to make the people uncomfortable is certainly in keeping with non violent protest movements. I agree that nobody should be ok with harassment of others (and I seriously doubt he would be). But honestly I don’t think the camp out (conceptually) would be outside his or Gandhi’s techniques.

We can’t have MLK time travel to the present day to prove who is right, but I stand by my view that he was a Christian man of his time who supported nonviolent protest and I don’t think those core opinions would change.

I knew people who knew MLK as well as The Mahatma (Gandhi), and I am 99.99% sure they would have been broadly supportive of the protests.

So we are now down to I knew I knew? MLK expressed strong support for Israel when he was alive.

You seem to mistake “support for Israel” as a license for Israel to do literally whatever it wants to do.

Like essentially everything else in life, most sane people afford support on a conditional basis - as in, I support Israel as long as Israel upholds at least some minimum level of values that we expect of nations AND doesn’t engage in policies and actions that shock the conscience and starkly conflict with those values.

Once a nation so clearly violates those conditions, why should ANYONE support them with weapons, shield them from accountability at the U.N., etc.?

DP and thank you, PP, you have distilled how I feel and said it in a reasonable and rational way.

Many of us found the attacks by Hamas horrifying and unjustified. I recognize the right of Israel to exist. But I do not think razing Gaza is included in that right. I support those who protest the destruction of Gaza if they remain peaceful. Protesters who destroy property or say antisemitic things or similar no longer have my support. They should face consequences appropriate for their actions, but not violence or doxing.

Why is basic civility and nuanced thinking so hard to find.

+1

+2. Thanks to the PP for concisely summarizing my thoughts. I don't think we are the only ones that feel this way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is a very good letter. And the students who wrote it signed their names.

Great. They are welcome to write how they feel and their thoughts on the mattter.

Other Jewish people on campus feel differently and some have participated in the protests, like Jonathan Ben-Menachem. You can read his article here:
https://zeteo.com/p/i-am-a-jewish-student-at-columbia

I notice how the writers of this piece refer to people like Jonathan as "our Jewish peers who tokenize themselves"

You can notice all kinds of things, and keep not noticing the Jew hatred that's been unleashed since Hamas slaughtered, raped, and kidnapped 1200 Israelis on Oct 7.

The more you ignore and refuse to acknowledge the massive imbalance in atrocities committed by the Israeli side in this conflict, the less people hear you.

The more you ignore and refuse to acknowledge those atrocities and instead propagate false claims regarding the events of 10/7, the less people see you.

And the more you do both of those things while demanding that others focus only on YOUR interests and irrational feelings, the less people care about you at all.

The more these protesters pollute and vandalize college campuses, the less people hear or care about the. The more they do things like block highways, the less people hear and care about them. These strategies have been 100% asinine from the beginning.

Actually, the truth is that if they remained completely peaceful and quiet and focused only on protesting the killing of Palestinian civilians, that is when people would ignore them. It's only when they block highways and enter buildings that people pay attention. People like drama and controversy.

Right? Because that's exactly how people think. When they are blocked in traffic by pro-Palestinian protesters and late for work or picking up their kids or can't make it to the hospital as they're having a heart attack, their first thought is always gosh, maybe these protestors have a good point. We really should "globalize the intifada." Or when an engineering student can't get into the library to study, their first thought is always "We are all Hamas." Who needs an education?

Obviously MLK and Gandhi were idiots with their non-violent protests. Totally ignored. Got them nowhere.

You seem to be one of those people who only likes the sanitized sepia toned version of MLK.

The reason MLK’s nonviolent protests were successful is because people were shocked that police were deployed against them.

Now the students are being nonviolent and you are cheering the use of militarized police tactics on students.

I do not for a minute equate Bull Connor and Birmingham with the police removing the student Hamas enthusiasts that overtook Columbia. There is no equivalence, and to favorably compare the two demonstrates how completely delusional the protesters and their supporters are.

I promise you if MLK was still alive he’d be supporting the protesters.

I’m not sure I believe that.

I flat out don’t.

Because of the content of the protest? Meaning you think he would support Israel over Palestine? Or because of the methodology of the protests? Meaning you think he wouldn’t support encampments?

I’m not the PP but I do not believe MLK would want to involve himself with protests that are overwhelmingly driven by white, wealthy, and incredibly privileged students. And while I believe MLK would have had great sympathy for the Palestinians, he would have also had deep horror about what happened on 10/7. I think MLK would have been appalled at the pro-Hamas imagery at the protests, for instance.

These protests do not have a great deal of support, even among people whose political sympathies might lie with the Palestinians but who understand that the Israeli Palestinian history is not a black and white easily solved issue. I do not think it’s easy to glibly say that MLk would have supported the protestors.

There are a number of white and/or wealthy kids in these protests and the kids at the Ivies are by definition incredibly privileged. But I think many of the protests are driven by Palestinian and/or Muslim students who are overwhelmingly not white. Other students including white students and Jewish students are also joining in but not driving the current protests or the encampments.

That’s not what their own videos show. These are protests that are organized and driven largely by wealthy, privileged, and frequently white kids. That’s not to say that there aren’t Muslim and/or Palestinian organizers, of course they are. But the protests that are getting graduations cancelled at the elite schools in particular, the ones getting the most press coverage and with the most violence and defacement of property: these are the protests of wealthy, incredibly privileged kids that are frequently and sometimes overwhelmingly white. Just the equipment that you can see in the encampments demonstrate clear access to significant funds. These are not created by poor, struggling people. They are backed by a lot of wealth.

That was never MLK’s group, and I do not think he would have aligned himself with them.

Yes to most of the above. But what you are missing is that these are organized demonstrations with funds tied to foreign interests & terrorists groups. And they actually are taking place on majority minority campuses as well. Those schools just aren’t being discussed in the media.

Once again, it’s tin foil hat time at DCUM!

The foreign funding is obvious BS made up to fool oldsters who don’t get that public opinion has changed with the new generation!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is a very good letter. And the students who wrote it signed their names.

Great. They are welcome to write how they feel and their thoughts on the mattter.

Other Jewish people on campus feel differently and some have participated in the protests, like Jonathan Ben-Menachem. You can read his article here:
https://zeteo.com/p/i-am-a-jewish-student-at-columbia

I notice how the writers of this piece refer to people like Jonathan as "our Jewish peers who tokenize themselves"

You can notice all kinds of things, and keep not noticing the Jew hatred that's been unleashed since Hamas slaughtered, raped, and kidnapped 1200 Israelis on Oct 7.

The more you ignore and refuse to acknowledge the massive imbalance in atrocities committed by the Israeli side in this conflict, the less people hear you.

The more you ignore and refuse to acknowledge those atrocities and instead propagate false claims regarding the events of 10/7, the less people see you.

And the more you do both of those things while demanding that others focus only on YOUR interests and irrational feelings, the less people care about you at all.

The more these protesters pollute and vandalize college campuses, the less people hear or care about the. The more they do things like block highways, the less people hear and care about them. These strategies have been 100% asinine from the beginning.

Actually, the truth is that if they remained completely peaceful and quiet and focused only on protesting the killing of Palestinian civilians, that is when people would ignore them. It's only when they block highways and enter buildings that people pay attention. People like drama and controversy.

Right? Because that's exactly how people think. When they are blocked in traffic by pro-Palestinian protesters and late for work or picking up their kids or can't make it to the hospital as they're having a heart attack, their first thought is always gosh, maybe these protestors have a good point. We really should "globalize the intifada." Or when an engineering student can't get into the library to study, their first thought is always "We are all Hamas." Who needs an education?

Obviously MLK and Gandhi were idiots with their non-violent protests. Totally ignored. Got them nowhere.

You seem to be one of those people who only likes the sanitized sepia toned version of MLK.

The reason MLK’s nonviolent protests were successful is because people were shocked that police were deployed against them.

Now the students are being nonviolent and you are cheering the use of militarized police tactics on students.

I do not for a minute equate Bull Connor and Birmingham with the police removing the student Hamas enthusiasts that overtook Columbia. There is no equivalence, and to favorably compare the two demonstrates how completely delusional the protesters and their supporters are.

I promise you if MLK was still alive he’d be supporting the protesters.

I’m not sure I believe that.

I flat out don’t.

Because of the content of the protest? Meaning you think he would support Israel over Palestine? Or because of the methodology of the protests? Meaning you think he wouldn’t support encampments?

All of the above.

Ok. I think you are wrong on both counts.

I believe he would have been with the underdog - the Palestinians in this case. At best he may just not taken sides. This is speculative though and you may be right and really not worth debating unless someone has some of his writings on the issue.

On the encampments - I think if he believed strongly in the cause, it would very much be a part of a civil disobedience protest. Coming up with ways to make the people uncomfortable is certainly in keeping with non violent protest movements. I agree that nobody should be ok with harassment of others (and I seriously doubt he would be). But honestly I don’t think the camp out (conceptually) would be outside his or Gandhi’s techniques.

We can’t have MLK time travel to the present day to prove who is right, but I stand by my view that he was a Christian man of his time who supported nonviolent protest and I don’t think those core opinions would change.

I knew people who knew MLK as well as The Mahatma (Gandhi), and I am 99.99% sure they would have been broadly supportive of the protests.

So we are now down to I knew I knew? MLK expressed strong support for Israel when he was alive.

You seem to mistake “support for Israel” as a license for Israel to do literally whatever it wants to do.

Like essentially everything else in life, most sane people afford support on a conditional basis - as in, I support Israel as long as Israel upholds at least some minimum level of values that we expect of nations AND doesn’t engage in policies and actions that shock the conscience and starkly conflict with those values.

Once a nation so clearly violates those conditions, why should ANYONE support them with weapons, shield them from accountability at the U.N., etc.?

DP and thank you, PP, you have distilled how I feel and said it in a reasonable and rational way.

Many of us found the attacks by Hamas horrifying and unjustified. I recognize the right of Israel to exist. But I do not think razing Gaza is included in that right. I support those who protest the destruction of Gaza if they remain peaceful. Protesters who destroy property or say antisemitic things or similar no longer have my support. They should face consequences appropriate for their actions, but not violence or doxing.

Why is basic civility and nuanced thinking so hard to find.

+1

+2. Thanks to the PP for concisely summarizing my thoughts. I don't think we are the only ones that feel this way.

I agree that we’re not alone with these views, though it often feels that way. At times, I guess it’s too easy for well-intentioned people to retreat to the extreme margins rather than make a concession. I do it myself, too often.

The most difficult part of the discussion around this conflict, for me anyway, is reckoning with the fact that some of those on the extreme fringe have children who are being indoctrinated into the same dehumanizing way of thinking, on both sides. And the most frustrating part is that one side has been emboldened by America’s unconditional support and U.N. interference to the point where there is no incentive to find peace and there is also no consequence for obstructing peace.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is a very good letter. And the students who wrote it signed their names.

Great. They are welcome to write how they feel and their thoughts on the mattter.

Other Jewish people on campus feel differently and some have participated in the protests, like Jonathan Ben-Menachem. You can read his article here:
https://zeteo.com/p/i-am-a-jewish-student-at-columbia

I notice how the writers of this piece refer to people like Jonathan as "our Jewish peers who tokenize themselves"

You can notice all kinds of things, and keep not noticing the Jew hatred that's been unleashed since Hamas slaughtered, raped, and kidnapped 1200 Israelis on Oct 7.

The more you ignore and refuse to acknowledge the massive imbalance in atrocities committed by the Israeli side in this conflict, the less people hear you.

The more you ignore and refuse to acknowledge those atrocities and instead propagate false claims regarding the events of 10/7, the less people see you.

And the more you do both of those things while demanding that others focus only on YOUR interests and irrational feelings, the less people care about you at all.

The more these protesters pollute and vandalize college campuses, the less people hear or care about the. The more they do things like block highways, the less people hear and care about them. These strategies have been 100% asinine from the beginning.

Actually, the truth is that if they remained completely peaceful and quiet and focused only on protesting the killing of Palestinian civilians, that is when people would ignore them. It's only when they block highways and enter buildings that people pay attention. People like drama and controversy.

Right? Because that's exactly how people think. When they are blocked in traffic by pro-Palestinian protesters and late for work or picking up their kids or can't make it to the hospital as they're having a heart attack, their first thought is always gosh, maybe these protestors have a good point. We really should "globalize the intifada." Or when an engineering student can't get into the library to study, their first thought is always "We are all Hamas." Who needs an education?

Obviously MLK and Gandhi were idiots with their non-violent protests. Totally ignored. Got them nowhere.

You seem to be one of those people who only likes the sanitized sepia toned version of MLK.

The reason MLK’s nonviolent protests were successful is because people were shocked that police were deployed against them.

Now the students are being nonviolent and you are cheering the use of militarized police tactics on students.

I do not for a minute equate Bull Connor and Birmingham with the police removing the student Hamas enthusiasts that overtook Columbia. There is no equivalence, and to favorably compare the two demonstrates how completely delusional the protesters and their supporters are.

I promise you if MLK was still alive he’d be supporting the protesters.

I’m not sure I believe that.

I flat out don’t.

Because of the content of the protest? Meaning you think he would support Israel over Palestine? Or because of the methodology of the protests? Meaning you think he wouldn’t support encampments?

All of the above.

Ok. I think you are wrong on both counts.

I believe he would have been with the underdog - the Palestinians in this case. At best he may just not taken sides. This is speculative though and you may be right and really not worth debating unless someone has some of his writings on the issue.

On the encampments - I think if he believed strongly in the cause, it would very much be a part of a civil disobedience protest. Coming up with ways to make the people uncomfortable is certainly in keeping with non violent protest movements. I agree that nobody should be ok with harassment of others (and I seriously doubt he would be). But honestly I don’t think the camp out (conceptually) would be outside his or Gandhi’s techniques.

We can’t have MLK time travel to the present day to prove who is right, but I stand by my view that he was a Christian man of his time who supported nonviolent protest and I don’t think those core opinions would change.

I knew people who knew MLK as well as The Mahatma (Gandhi), and I am 99.99% sure they would have been broadly supportive of the protests.

So we are now down to I knew I knew? MLK expressed strong support for Israel when he was alive.

You seem to mistake “support for Israel” as a license for Israel to do literally whatever it wants to do.

Like essentially everything else in life, most sane people afford support on a conditional basis - as in, I support Israel as long as Israel upholds at least some minimum level of values that we expect of nations AND doesn’t engage in policies and actions that shock the conscience and starkly conflict with those values.

Once a nation so clearly violates those conditions, why should ANYONE support them with weapons, shield them from accountability at the U.N., etc.?

DP and thank you, PP, you have distilled how I feel and said it in a reasonable and rational way.

Many of us found the attacks by Hamas horrifying and unjustified. I recognize the right of Israel to exist. But I do not think razing Gaza is included in that right. I support those who protest the destruction of Gaza if they remain peaceful. Protesters who destroy property or say antisemitic things or similar no longer have my support. They should face consequences appropriate for their actions, but not violence or doxing.

Why is basic civility and nuanced thinking so hard to find.

Because so many of you prioritize what you define as "civility" and the protection of property over literal human lives. This is life and death we're talking about, and y'all want to hand wring about graffiti. People are being murdered en masse with your money!! Wake up!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is a very good letter. And the students who wrote it signed their names.

Great. They are welcome to write how they feel and their thoughts on the mattter.

Other Jewish people on campus feel differently and some have participated in the protests, like Jonathan Ben-Menachem. You can read his article here:
https://zeteo.com/p/i-am-a-jewish-student-at-columbia

I notice how the writers of this piece refer to people like Jonathan as "our Jewish peers who tokenize themselves"

You can notice all kinds of things, and keep not noticing the Jew hatred that's been unleashed since Hamas slaughtered, raped, and kidnapped 1200 Israelis on Oct 7.

The more you ignore and refuse to acknowledge the massive imbalance in atrocities committed by the Israeli side in this conflict, the less people hear you.

The more you ignore and refuse to acknowledge those atrocities and instead propagate false claims regarding the events of 10/7, the less people see you.

And the more you do both of those things while demanding that others focus only on YOUR interests and irrational feelings, the less people care about you at all.

The more these protesters pollute and vandalize college campuses, the less people hear or care about the. The more they do things like block highways, the less people hear and care about them. These strategies have been 100% asinine from the beginning.

Actually, the truth is that if they remained completely peaceful and quiet and focused only on protesting the killing of Palestinian civilians, that is when people would ignore them. It's only when they block highways and enter buildings that people pay attention. People like drama and controversy.

Right? Because that's exactly how people think. When they are blocked in traffic by pro-Palestinian protesters and late for work or picking up their kids or can't make it to the hospital as they're having a heart attack, their first thought is always gosh, maybe these protestors have a good point. We really should "globalize the intifada." Or when an engineering student can't get into the library to study, their first thought is always "We are all Hamas." Who needs an education?

Obviously MLK and Gandhi were idiots with their non-violent protests. Totally ignored. Got them nowhere.

You seem to be one of those people who only likes the sanitized sepia toned version of MLK.

The reason MLK’s nonviolent protests were successful is because people were shocked that police were deployed against them.

Now the students are being nonviolent and you are cheering the use of militarized police tactics on students.

I do not for a minute equate Bull Connor and Birmingham with the police removing the student Hamas enthusiasts that overtook Columbia. There is no equivalence, and to favorably compare the two demonstrates how completely delusional the protesters and their supporters are.

I promise you if MLK was still alive he’d be supporting the protesters.

I’m not sure I believe that.

I flat out don’t.

Because of the content of the protest? Meaning you think he would support Israel over Palestine? Or because of the methodology of the protests? Meaning you think he wouldn’t support encampments?

All of the above.

Ok. I think you are wrong on both counts.

I believe he would have been with the underdog - the Palestinians in this case. At best he may just not taken sides. This is speculative though and you may be right and really not worth debating unless someone has some of his writings on the issue.

On the encampments - I think if he believed strongly in the cause, it would very much be a part of a civil disobedience protest. Coming up with ways to make the people uncomfortable is certainly in keeping with non violent protest movements. I agree that nobody should be ok with harassment of others (and I seriously doubt he would be). But honestly I don’t think the camp out (conceptually) would be outside his or Gandhi’s techniques.

We can’t have MLK time travel to the present day to prove who is right, but I stand by my view that he was a Christian man of his time who supported nonviolent protest and I don’t think those core opinions would change.

I knew people who knew MLK as well as The Mahatma (Gandhi), and I am 99.99% sure they would have been broadly supportive of the protests.

So we are now down to I knew I knew? MLK expressed strong support for Israel when he was alive.

You seem to mistake “support for Israel” as a license for Israel to do literally whatever it wants to do.

Like essentially everything else in life, most sane people afford support on a conditional basis - as in, I support Israel as long as Israel upholds at least some minimum level of values that we expect of nations AND doesn’t engage in policies and actions that shock the conscience and starkly conflict with those values.

Once a nation so clearly violates those conditions, why should ANYONE support them with weapons, shield them from accountability at the U.N., etc.?

DP and thank you, PP, you have distilled how I feel and said it in a reasonable and rational way.

Many of us found the attacks by Hamas horrifying and unjustified. I recognize the right of Israel to exist. But I do not think razing Gaza is included in that right. I support those who protest the destruction of Gaza if they remain peaceful. Protesters who destroy property or say antisemitic things or similar no longer have my support. They should face consequences appropriate for their actions, but not violence or doxing.

Why is basic civility and nuanced thinking so hard to find.

+1

+2. Thanks to the PP for concisely summarizing my thoughts. I don't think we are the only ones that feel this way.

I agree that we’re not alone with these views, though it often feels that way. At times, I guess it’s too easy for well-intentioned people to retreat to the extreme margins rather than make a concession. I do it myself, too often.

The most difficult part of the discussion around this conflict, for me anyway, is reckoning with the fact that some of those on the extreme fringe have children who are being indoctrinated into the same dehumanizing way of thinking, on both sides. And the most frustrating part is that one side has been emboldened by America’s unconditional support and U.N. interference to the point where there is no incentive to find peace and there is also no consequence for obstructing peace.

Equivocating and looking for the "middle ground" in the face of a genocide isn't the enlightened flex you think it is. It makes you as guilty and despicable as those carrying out the violence themselves.

[Anonymous]

This is truly hilarious. Reads like an Onion article. I hope these morons fail their exams and are expelled for their outrageously bad behavior.

From a May 1 letter from Columbia Law Review’s student editors:

The violence we witnessed last night has irrevocably shaken many of us on the Review. We know this to be the same for a majority of our classmates. Videos have circulated of police clad in riot gear mocking and brutalizing our students. The events of last night left us, and many of our peers, unable to focus and highly emotional during this tumultuous time. This only follows the growing distress that many of us have felt for months as the humanitarian crisis abroad continues to unfold, and as the blatant antisemitism, islamophobia, and racism on campus have escalated. Our response is not disproportionate to the outsized impact it has had on many of us in the community—a crowd of people that proudly represent their membership in a white supremacist, neo-fascist hate group were storming our campus just days ago.

We believe that canceling exams would be a proportionate response to the level of distress our peers have been feeling. In the alternative, making courses mandatory Pass/Fail would be the next most equitable solution.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is a very good letter. And the students who wrote it signed their names.

Great. They are welcome to write how they feel and their thoughts on the mattter.

Other Jewish people on campus feel differently and some have participated in the protests, like Jonathan Ben-Menachem. You can read his article here:
https://zeteo.com/p/i-am-a-jewish-student-at-columbia

I notice how the writers of this piece refer to people like Jonathan as "our Jewish peers who tokenize themselves"

You can notice all kinds of things, and keep not noticing the Jew hatred that's been unleashed since Hamas slaughtered, raped, and kidnapped 1200 Israelis on Oct 7.

The more you ignore and refuse to acknowledge the massive imbalance in atrocities committed by the Israeli side in this conflict, the less people hear you.

The more you ignore and refuse to acknowledge those atrocities and instead propagate false claims regarding the events of 10/7, the less people see you.

And the more you do both of those things while demanding that others focus only on YOUR interests and irrational feelings, the less people care about you at all.

The more these protesters pollute and vandalize college campuses, the less people hear or care about the. The more they do things like block highways, the less people hear and care about them. These strategies have been 100% asinine from the beginning.

Actually, the truth is that if they remained completely peaceful and quiet and focused only on protesting the killing of Palestinian civilians, that is when people would ignore them. It's only when they block highways and enter buildings that people pay attention. People like drama and controversy.

Right? Because that's exactly how people think. When they are blocked in traffic by pro-Palestinian protesters and late for work or picking up their kids or can't make it to the hospital as they're having a heart attack, their first thought is always gosh, maybe these protestors have a good point. We really should "globalize the intifada." Or when an engineering student can't get into the library to study, their first thought is always "We are all Hamas." Who needs an education?

Obviously MLK and Gandhi were idiots with their non-violent protests. Totally ignored. Got them nowhere.

You seem to be one of those people who only likes the sanitized sepia toned version of MLK.

The reason MLK’s nonviolent protests were successful is because people were shocked that police were deployed against them.

Now the students are being nonviolent and you are cheering the use of militarized police tactics on students.

I do not for a minute equate Bull Connor and Birmingham with the police removing the student Hamas enthusiasts that overtook Columbia. There is no equivalence, and to favorably compare the two demonstrates how completely delusional the protesters and their supporters are.

I promise you if MLK was still alive he’d be supporting the protesters.

I’m not sure I believe that.

I flat out don’t.

Because of the content of the protest? Meaning you think he would support Israel over Palestine? Or because of the methodology of the protests? Meaning you think he wouldn’t support encampments?

All of the above.

Ok. I think you are wrong on both counts.

I believe he would have been with the underdog - the Palestinians in this case. At best he may just not taken sides. This is speculative though and you may be right and really not worth debating unless someone has some of his writings on the issue.

On the encampments - I think if he believed strongly in the cause, it would very much be a part of a civil disobedience protest. Coming up with ways to make the people uncomfortable is certainly in keeping with non violent protest movements. I agree that nobody should be ok with harassment of others (and I seriously doubt he would be). But honestly I don’t think the camp out (conceptually) would be outside his or Gandhi’s techniques.

We can’t have MLK time travel to the present day to prove who is right, but I stand by my view that he was a Christian man of his time who supported nonviolent protest and I don’t think those core opinions would change.

I knew people who knew MLK as well as The Mahatma (Gandhi), and I am 99.99% sure they would have been broadly supportive of the protests.

So we are now down to I knew I knew? MLK expressed strong support for Israel when he was alive.

You seem to mistake “support for Israel” as a license for Israel to do literally whatever it wants to do.

Like essentially everything else in life, most sane people afford support on a conditional basis - as in, I support Israel as long as Israel upholds at least some minimum level of values that we expect of nations AND doesn’t engage in policies and actions that shock the conscience and starkly conflict with those values.

Once a nation so clearly violates those conditions, why should ANYONE support them with weapons, shield them from accountability at the U.N., etc.?

DP and thank you, PP, you have distilled how I feel and said it in a reasonable and rational way.

Many of us found the attacks by Hamas horrifying and unjustified. I recognize the right of Israel to exist. But I do not think razing Gaza is included in that right. I support those who protest the destruction of Gaza if they remain peaceful. Protesters who destroy property or say antisemitic things or similar no longer have my support. They should face consequences appropriate for their actions, but not violence or doxing.

Why is basic civility and nuanced thinking so hard to find.

+1

+2. Thanks to the PP for concisely summarizing my thoughts. I don't think we are the only ones that feel this way.

I agree that we’re not alone with these views, though it often feels that way. At times, I guess it’s too easy for well-intentioned people to retreat to the extreme margins rather than make a concession. I do it myself, too often.

The most difficult part of the discussion around this conflict, for me anyway, is reckoning with the fact that some of those on the extreme fringe have children who are being indoctrinated into the same dehumanizing way of thinking, on both sides. And the most frustrating part is that one side has been emboldened by America’s unconditional support and U.N. interference to the point where there is no incentive to find peace and there is also no consequence for obstructing peace.

Equivocating and looking for the "middle ground" in the face of a genocide isn't the enlightened flex you think it is. It makes you as guilty and despicable as those carrying out the violence themselves.

You left off the "/s".

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is a very good letter. And the students who wrote it signed their names.

Great. They are welcome to write how they feel and their thoughts on the mattter.

Other Jewish people on campus feel differently and some have participated in the protests, like Jonathan Ben-Menachem. You can read his article here:
https://zeteo.com/p/i-am-a-jewish-student-at-columbia

I notice how the writers of this piece refer to people like Jonathan as "our Jewish peers who tokenize themselves"

You can notice all kinds of things, and keep not noticing the Jew hatred that's been unleashed since Hamas slaughtered, raped, and kidnapped 1200 Israelis on Oct 7.

The more you ignore and refuse to acknowledge the massive imbalance in atrocities committed by the Israeli side in this conflict, the less people hear you.

The more you ignore and refuse to acknowledge those atrocities and instead propagate false claims regarding the events of 10/7, the less people see you.

And the more you do both of those things while demanding that others focus only on YOUR interests and irrational feelings, the less people care about you at all.

The more these protesters pollute and vandalize college campuses, the less people hear or care about the. The more they do things like block highways, the less people hear and care about them. These strategies have been 100% asinine from the beginning.

Actually, the truth is that if they remained completely peaceful and quiet and focused only on protesting the killing of Palestinian civilians, that is when people would ignore them. It's only when they block highways and enter buildings that people pay attention. People like drama and controversy.

Right? Because that's exactly how people think. When they are blocked in traffic by pro-Palestinian protesters and late for work or picking up their kids or can't make it to the hospital as they're having a heart attack, their first thought is always gosh, maybe these protestors have a good point. We really should "globalize the intifada." Or when an engineering student can't get into the library to study, their first thought is always "We are all Hamas." Who needs an education?

Obviously MLK and Gandhi were idiots with their non-violent protests. Totally ignored. Got them nowhere.

You seem to be one of those people who only likes the sanitized sepia toned version of MLK.

The reason MLK’s nonviolent protests were successful is because people were shocked that police were deployed against them.

Now the students are being nonviolent and you are cheering the use of militarized police tactics on students.

I do not for a minute equate Bull Connor and Birmingham with the police removing the student Hamas enthusiasts that overtook Columbia. There is no equivalence, and to favorably compare the two demonstrates how completely delusional the protesters and their supporters are.

I promise you if MLK was still alive he’d be supporting the protesters.

I’m not sure I believe that.

I flat out don’t.

Because of the content of the protest? Meaning you think he would support Israel over Palestine? Or because of the methodology of the protests? Meaning you think he wouldn’t support encampments?

All of the above.

Ok. I think you are wrong on both counts.

I believe he would have been with the underdog - the Palestinians in this case. At best he may just not taken sides. This is speculative though and you may be right and really not worth debating unless someone has some of his writings on the issue.

On the encampments - I think if he believed strongly in the cause, it would very much be a part of a civil disobedience protest. Coming up with ways to make the people uncomfortable is certainly in keeping with non violent protest movements. I agree that nobody should be ok with harassment of others (and I seriously doubt he would be). But honestly I don’t think the camp out (conceptually) would be outside his or Gandhi’s techniques.

We can’t have MLK time travel to the present day to prove who is right, but I stand by my view that he was a Christian man of his time who supported nonviolent protest and I don’t think those core opinions would change.

I knew people who knew MLK as well as The Mahatma (Gandhi), and I am 99.99% sure they would have been broadly supportive of the protests.

So we are now down to I knew I knew? MLK expressed strong support for Israel when he was alive.

You seem to mistake “support for Israel” as a license for Israel to do literally whatever it wants to do.

Like essentially everything else in life, most sane people afford support on a conditional basis - as in, I support Israel as long as Israel upholds at least some minimum level of values that we expect of nations AND doesn’t engage in policies and actions that shock the conscience and starkly conflict with those values.

Once a nation so clearly violates those conditions, why should ANYONE support them with weapons, shield them from accountability at the U.N., etc.?

DP and thank you, PP, you have distilled how I feel and said it in a reasonable and rational way.

Many of us found the attacks by Hamas horrifying and unjustified. I recognize the right of Israel to exist. But I do not think razing Gaza is included in that right. I support those who protest the destruction of Gaza if they remain peaceful. Protesters who destroy property or say antisemitic things or similar no longer have my support. They should face consequences appropriate for their actions, but not violence or doxing.

Why is basic civility and nuanced thinking so hard to find.

+1

+2. Thanks to the PP for concisely summarizing my thoughts. I don't think we are the only ones that feel this way.

I agree that we’re not alone with these views, though it often feels that way. At times, I guess it’s too easy for well-intentioned people to retreat to the extreme margins rather than make a concession. I do it myself, too often.

The most difficult part of the discussion around this conflict, for me anyway, is reckoning with the fact that some of those on the extreme fringe have children who are being indoctrinated into the same dehumanizing way of thinking, on both sides. And the most frustrating part is that one side has been emboldened by America’s unconditional support and U.N. interference to the point where there is no incentive to find peace and there is also no consequence for obstructing peace.

Equivocating and looking for the "middle ground" in the face of a genocide isn't the enlightened flex you think it is. It makes you as guilty and despicable as those carrying out the violence themselves.

You left off the "/s".

People are dying. You're making stupid quips on the internet. Surely, you're better than this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is truly hilarious. Reads like an Onion article. I hope these morons fail their exams and are expelled for their outrageously bad behavior.

From a May 1 letter from Columbia Law Review’s student editors:

The violence we witnessed last night has irrevocably shaken many of us on the Review. We know this to be the same for a majority of our classmates. Videos have circulated of police clad in riot gear mocking and brutalizing our students. The events of last night left us, and many of our peers, unable to focus and highly emotional during this tumultuous time. This only follows the growing distress that many of us have felt for months as the humanitarian crisis abroad continues to unfold, and as the blatant antisemitism, islamophobia, and racism on campus have escalated. Our response is not disproportionate to the outsized impact it has had on many of us in the community—a crowd of people that proudly represent their membership in a white supremacist, neo-fascist hate group were storming our campus just days ago.

We believe that canceling exams would be a proportionate response to the level of distress our peers have been feeling. In the alternative, making courses mandatory Pass/Fail would be the next most equitable solution.

So, they didn’t study for their exams and now want an easy out. Well, A+ for effort, with throwing out an identity politics word salad containing every “-phobia” and “-ism” in the book. The administration will probably cave anyway, so hey, why not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is truly hilarious. Reads like an Onion article. I hope these morons fail their exams and are expelled for their outrageously bad behavior.

From a May 1 letter from Columbia Law Review’s student editors:

The violence we witnessed last night has irrevocably shaken many of us on the Review. We know this to be the same for a majority of our classmates. Videos have circulated of police clad in riot gear mocking and brutalizing our students. The events of last night left us, and many of our peers, unable to focus and highly emotional during this tumultuous time. This only follows the growing distress that many of us have felt for months as the humanitarian crisis abroad continues to unfold, and as the blatant antisemitism, islamophobia, and racism on campus have escalated. Our response is not disproportionate to the outsized impact it has had on many of us in the community—a crowd of people that proudly represent their membership in a white supremacist, neo-fascist hate group were storming our campus just days ago.

We believe that canceling exams would be a proportionate response to the level of distress our peers have been feeling. In the alternative, making courses mandatory Pass/Fail would be the next most equitable solution.

Yes glad you are on the side of the white supremacists and neo fascist hate groups. Man are you a moron.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is truly hilarious. Reads like an Onion article. I hope these morons fail their exams and are expelled for their outrageously bad behavior.

From a May 1 letter from Columbia Law Review’s student editors:

The violence we witnessed last night has irrevocably shaken many of us on the Review. We know this to be the same for a majority of our classmates. Videos have circulated of police clad in riot gear mocking and brutalizing our students. The events of last night left us, and many of our peers, unable to focus and highly emotional during this tumultuous time. This only follows the growing distress that many of us have felt for months as the humanitarian crisis abroad continues to unfold, and as the blatant antisemitism, islamophobia, and racism on campus have escalated. Our response is not disproportionate to the outsized impact it has had on many of us in the community—a crowd of people that proudly represent their membership in a white supremacist, neo-fascist hate group were storming our campus just days ago.

We believe that canceling exams would be a proportionate response to the level of distress our peers have been feeling. In the alternative, making courses mandatory Pass/Fail would be the next most equitable solution.

So this is what happens when you admit a class of students to a University, a place where you are TESTED on your knowledge of material, without having them submit SAT/ACT scores. The truth is many of these kids are likely in over their head because they were put into a rigorous academic program that, for whatever reason, they were either not prepared for or not capable of succeeding in. They've resorting to the methods that allowed them to "cheat" the system in high school when Wokeness overtook the system and covid led to test-optional policies.

Enjoy your class of 2024-2028 hires from elite schools.