Wife wants to be "alone" so this means we divorce?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Most men aren't zipping up dinners, calling girl scout leader, and signing up for camps online. Most parenting falls on the mother. She can, and should however, delegate to you more "defined tasks." Maybe you can take ownership over washing dishes, emptying dishwasher, washing towels, and on weekends, driving around kids while she quarterbacks.

Incredibly dumb and condescending.

I am a man and I do ALL the parenting, period. Oh yeah, and I also do the cooking, the dishwasher, the laundry, and driving kids around on weekends. It really isn’t that hard. All this prima donna whining about “emotional labor” and uncompensated work at home is an effort to guilt trip men and should be ignored.

Well, are you a single dad? Or do you need to discuss with your spouse a more appropriate division of labor?

DP. I'd still like an answer to this, for the sake of understanding generalizability.

"I am a man" PP -- are you a man married to a woman without significant mental or physical disabilities, and this is your division of labor? Or are you effectively kind of forced into it, because there is nothing else you can do about it right now?

If it really were not "that hard," I'd be surprised that few men who could be stepping up to the plate, don't. If it doesn't take a lot of energy or time on top of an otherwise busy life, we shouldn't be seeing parents who don't automatically chip in and do it,a s part of being partners and full parents. But we don't.

I am that PP. I am a single dad now with 50/50 custody. First I should note that I did all that stuff when we were still married. The only household thing she did when we were married was clean the bathrooms once a month - and to be sure, I appreciated that because I hate doing that (just did it yesterday). I did the cooking, the dishwasher, the laundry (except for hers), and arranged all the kid activities (doctor visits as well as fun stuff) and many other things. At least in the last couple of years when she had, for all practical purposes, already decided to move out, she gave up on household tasks and kid stuff because she was (in my opinion) depressed. She did nothing when she was home but write incessantly in her journal. When she said anything about it, she snapped at me. If I didn't do that stuff, it simply wouldn't happen.

Right now, we have separate households. If I did not arrange the kid doctor visits, if I did not arrange kid birthday parties and extracurricular activities, if I did not buy them clothes, if I did not help them with their homework and school projects, if I did not take them outside to exercise, none of that stuff would ever happen. When she has them, all they do is sit and play on their iPads all day. She is completely lazy and useless. Geez she's not even the "fun" co-parent, I am in charge of fun things as well as boring things. The most that can be said is she will take them to/from the summer day camp (that I arranged and paid for) when she has custody, but it's not even 100% guaranteed that she will get off her ass and do that. I can't make her do anything, and if I don't do it nothing would happen.

I am sure I am not the only divorced parent in this situation. It is what it is...

[Anonymous]

"When she said anything about it," -- meant to write "If I said anything about it, she snapped at me".

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:After the kids left for college, did she still do all the house cleaning, dealing with household repairs? Did you expect dinner on the table every night and a real dinner, not just cheese and crackers or a salad? Did she still do your laundry, change your sheets? Notice when you need new clothes and order them online? PLan all the holidays? Do all the grocery shopping? Tkae the dog to the vet?

When I fantasize about living alone, I fantasize about not having to make dinner every night, not having to share the TV with someone else, not having to be responsible for someone else's wardrobe and social obligations and not having a pet.

If it's the drudgery that she's reacting to, maybe you could sign up for a meal service that sends you the ingredients and start making dinner yourself. Maybe you could buy your own clothes, take the dog to the vet, etc.

Alternately, you could remain married but she could 'spend a lot of time at the beach house' like one of our friends does.

Don’t make dinner every night. Neither my sister nor I do. My DH took up the slack by cooking (except in winter when harder to grill), while my sis does more takeout. You don’t need to share a tv if you have a computer in house. Or, buy another TV. If your kids are teens they’ll take care of wardrobe, though it’s harder w younger kids. I’m not saying it’s easy, but women can speak up instead of being martyrs and getting angry.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a SAHW, OP. I feel this way at least 5 out of 7 days but I work to tamp down those feelings because I know DH and kids are depending on me. Everyone desires financial and family stability but no educated person wants to focus on serving others -- even beloved children or partners -- in a menial capacity for decades. If your DW could enjoy nearly the same standard of living without having to live the lackey life, why would she not try to seize the chance to change? She does not care about the cleanliness of your underwear or your latest squabble with a colleague, and is tired of pretending.

The best reply yet Signed, also Sahw

This doesn’t make any sense. She wouldn’t have “nearly the same standard of living” if she leaves him. She will have half of what she has now. She also has the agency to get a job, which she will likely have to do anyhow if she leaves. Also, she doesn’t have to do his laundry. I have been a wohm, sahm, and wahm and have never done my biglaw partner’s laundry. I also wax a sahm while kids were in school full time, and it’s not that taxing. Yes, this year has been hard and she’s probably having a midlife crisis. But, let’s take ownership of our lives. If she wants to leave, that’s her right. It sounds like a bandaid, but we all need to own our decisions and the consequences of them.

[Anonymous]

no educated person wants to focus on serving others -- even beloved children or partners -- in a menial capacity for decades.

I have a PhD and I love "serving" my kids. I will have to serve them for ten more years. The nature of the service has of course changed over time, with the more "menial" tasks (changing diapers, bathing them) performed when they were under 5. Obviously I am also teaching them to take care of themselves more and more as they get older. But right now (for example) I still cook for them, and I love doing so.

It is really pathetic that you regard the work of raising children as "menial".

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Most men aren't zipping up dinners, calling girl scout leader, and signing up for camps online. Most parenting falls on the mother. She can, and should however, delegate to you more "defined tasks." Maybe you can take ownership over washing dishes, emptying dishwasher, washing towels, and on weekends, driving around kids while she quarterbacks.

Incredibly dumb and condescending.

I am a man and I do ALL the parenting, period. Oh yeah, and I also do the cooking, the dishwasher, the laundry, and driving kids around on weekends. It really isn’t that hard. All this prima donna whining about “emotional labor” and uncompensated work at home is an effort to guilt trip men and should be ignored.

Well, are you a single dad? Or do you need to discuss with your spouse a more appropriate division of labor?

DP. I'd still like an answer to this, for the sake of understanding generalizability.

"I am a man" PP -- are you a man married to a woman without significant mental or physical disabilities, and this is your division of labor? Or are you effectively kind of forced into it, because there is nothing else you can do about it right now?

If it really were not "that hard," I'd be surprised that few men who could be stepping up to the plate, don't. If it doesn't take a lot of energy or time on top of an otherwise busy life, we shouldn't be seeing parents who don't automatically chip in and do it,a s part of being partners and full parents. But we don't.

I am that PP. I am a single dad now with 50/50 custody. First I should note that I did all that stuff when we were still married. The only household thing she did when we were married was clean the bathrooms once a month - and to be sure, I appreciated that because I hate doing that (just did it yesterday). I did the cooking, the dishwasher, the laundry (except for hers), and arranged all the kid activities (doctor visits as well as fun stuff) and many other things. At least in the last couple of years when she had, for all practical purposes, already decided to move out, she gave up on household tasks and kid stuff because she was (in my opinion) depressed. She did nothing when she was home but write incessantly in her journal. When she said anything about it, she snapped at me. If I didn't do that stuff, it simply wouldn't happen.

Right now, we have separate households. If I did not arrange the kid doctor visits, if I did not arrange kid birthday parties and extracurricular activities, if I did not buy them clothes, if I did not help them with their homework and school projects, if I did not take them outside to exercise, none of that stuff would ever happen. When she has them, all they do is sit and play on their iPads all day. She is completely lazy and useless. Geez she's not even the "fun" co-parent, I am in charge of fun things as well as boring things. The most that can be said is she will take them to/from the summer day camp (that I arranged and paid for) when she has custody, but it's not even 100% guaranteed that she will get off her ass and do that. I can't make her do anything, and if I don't do it nothing would happen.

I am sure I am not the only divorced parent in this situation. It is what it is...

DP. PP, my hat is off to you. But to a certain extent you are more or less proving the point of OP’s wife in that a marriage where one partner completely is uninvolved in the household management the logical endpoint is decline of the relationship and divorce.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Most men aren't zipping up dinners, calling girl scout leader, and signing up for camps online. Most parenting falls on the mother. She can, and should however, delegate to you more "defined tasks." Maybe you can take ownership over washing dishes, emptying dishwasher, washing towels, and on weekends, driving around kids while she quarterbacks.

Incredibly dumb and condescending.

I am a man and I do ALL the parenting, period. Oh yeah, and I also do the cooking, the dishwasher, the laundry, and driving kids around on weekends. It really isn’t that hard. All this prima donna whining about “emotional labor” and uncompensated work at home is an effort to guilt trip men and should be ignored.

Well, are you a single dad? Or do you need to discuss with your spouse a more appropriate division of labor?

DP. I'd still like an answer to this, for the sake of understanding generalizability.

"I am a man" PP -- are you a man married to a woman without significant mental or physical disabilities, and this is your division of labor? Or are you effectively kind of forced into it, because there is nothing else you can do about it right now?

If it really were not "that hard," I'd be surprised that few men who could be stepping up to the plate, don't. If it doesn't take a lot of energy or time on top of an otherwise busy life, we shouldn't be seeing parents who don't automatically chip in and do it,a s part of being partners and full parents. But we don't.

I am that PP. I am a single dad now with 50/50 custody. First I should note that I did all that stuff when we were still married. The only household thing she did when we were married was clean the bathrooms once a month - and to be sure, I appreciated that because I hate doing that (just did it yesterday). I did the cooking, the dishwasher, the laundry (except for hers), and arranged all the kid activities (doctor visits as well as fun stuff) and many other things. At least in the last couple of years when she had, for all practical purposes, already decided to move out, she gave up on household tasks and kid stuff because she was (in my opinion) depressed. She did nothing when she was home but write incessantly in her journal. When she said anything about it, she snapped at me. If I didn't do that stuff, it simply wouldn't happen.

Right now, we have separate households. If I did not arrange the kid doctor visits, if I did not arrange kid birthday parties and extracurricular activities, if I did not buy them clothes, if I did not help them with their homework and school projects, if I did not take them outside to exercise, none of that stuff would ever happen. When she has them, all they do is sit and play on their iPads all day. She is completely lazy and useless. Geez she's not even the "fun" co-parent, I am in charge of fun things as well as boring things. The most that can be said is she will take them to/from the summer day camp (that I arranged and paid for) when she has custody, but it's not even 100% guaranteed that she will get off her ass and do that. I can't make her do anything, and if I don't do it nothing would happen.

I am sure I am not the only divorced parent in this situation. It is what it is...

DP. PP, my hat is off to you. But to a certain extent you are more or less proving the point of OP’s wife in that a marriage where one partner completely is uninvolved in the household management the logical endpoint is decline of the relationship and divorce.

Yeah no. I know many women who want to run the house and be in a traditional relationship. They are fine with it. From my experience marries run the spectrum from who does what work. If you are constantly complaining about the work you do without acknowledging what your spouse does the marriage ends. In reality some people are unhappy, feel put upon and over year grow to dislike their partner. It is best to move on at that point. OP needs to move on with his life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Do you actually want to spend time with her and make an effort to do so, or do you do what my DH does at night— which is vanish upstairs after dinner to read and watch sport’s while I interact with the kids, attend to a ton of household management needs. The resentment builds up and honestly, it wouldn’t take much to dissipate it— all he would need to do is actually be the initiator once in a while for us spending time together. So how much time over the last 20 years have you been the one to say, “let’s go on a date night, or away for a weekend, or just even take a walk”?

I haven’t read the whole thread, but so much this. I am similar to your wife, OP. I gave up my successful career to be the one to put family and household first. My DH felt that earning the income was his contribution, and it is to a point. But it sucks to do all the tedious and invisible work by default for so long and also be offered so little recognition and so little emotional intimacy. Now that the kids are grown, it’s time for me to prioritize my own wants and needs. If DH can be supportive (including initiating quality time together) then we have a future together. If he expects the next 20 years to be like the last, he’s going to be disappointed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

no educated person wants to focus on serving others -- even beloved children or partners -- in a menial capacity for decades.

I have a PhD and I love "serving" my kids. I will have to serve them for ten more years. The nature of the service has of course changed over time, with the more "menial" tasks (changing diapers, bathing them) performed when they were under 5. Obviously I am also teaching them to take care of themselves more and more as they get older. But right now (for example) I still cook for them, and I love doing so.

It is really pathetic that you regard the work of raising children as "menial".

So, you will serve them for ten more years, and then what? You will be in the place OP’s wife is in.
Are you going to continue to focus your life on serving your husband and adult children? Are you still going to love cooking for him every night? Or are you going to want to shift that focus to other things?

[Anonymous]

OP sounds lazy. She doesn't work, then whines her husband doesn't do more housework in addition to his J-O-B. Sounds awful.

[Anonymous]

I meant OP's wife

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP sounds lazy. She doesn't work, then whines her husband doesn't do more housework in addition to his J-O-B. Sounds awful.

It sounds to me like she wants to get a J-O-B, and having to devote herself to taking care of her husband is keeping her from it.
I mean, if she stops doing this stuff for him, then he is going to divorce her. The options people mention where OP takes care of himself and remains married don’t really seem to be an option for him. If she isn’t going to be there whenever he wants her, then she may as well move out and divorce.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP sounds lazy. She doesn't work, then whines her husband doesn't do more housework in addition to his J-O-B. Sounds awful.

It sounds to me like she wants to get a J-O-B, and having to devote herself to taking care of her husband is keeping her from it.
I mean, if she stops doing this stuff for him, then he is going to divorce her. The options people mention where OP takes care of himself and remains married don’t really seem to be an option for him. If she isn’t going to be there whenever he wants her, then she may as well move out and divorce.

If kids are gone, they’re not having sex, she’s not doing stuff for him, and she’s focused on her own life, exactly why in hell WOULD he stay married to her? She adds nothing to his life.

[Anonymous]

Great question. Why does anyone stay married after the nest is empty?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP sounds lazy. She doesn't work, then whines her husband doesn't do more housework in addition to his J-O-B. Sounds awful.

It sounds to me like she wants to get a J-O-B, and having to devote herself to taking care of her husband is keeping her from it.
I mean, if she stops doing this stuff for him, then he is going to divorce her. The options people mention where OP takes care of himself and remains married don’t really seem to be an option for him. If she isn’t going to be there whenever he wants her, then she may as well move out and divorce.

If kids are gone, they’re not having sex, she’s not doing stuff for him, and she’s focused on her own life, exactly why in hell WOULD he stay married to her? She adds nothing to his life.

As opposed to what? Someone who runs a hotel for him, provides him with all of his meals, laundry, cleaning and sex? Do women never get to retire? I say that if she's done raising kids she should get to relax a little. He is not actually owed maid service.