Making time for kids? Study says quality trumps quantity

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't consider an hour at tr bounce house quality time. Being around to have a conversation with my kid about a problem they are having or answering a hard question or helping them to learn a new skill - that I consider quality time.

So taking a child to an enjoyable, shared experience isn't quality time? What if I take my kid to the beach? Fishing? A water park? Disney?

I'm curious how old your kids are because if having a conversation is a requisite for quality time, you can write off ages 12-15 right now.

Really? My 12-15 y.o. kids are always happy to have a conversation with us. Must be because they grew up knowing we were available for them whenever they needed us and not just "quality time appointments" penciled in on the calendar at their parents' convenience.

So perhaps it has nothing to do with whether you work or stay home, cause my mom was a SAHM and I was a real peach to talk to in the middle-high school years! As in, I asked her to stop asking me so many questions and put "Do not disturb" signs on my bedroom door. Ha!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't consider an hour at tr bounce house quality time. Being around to have a conversation with my kid about a problem they are having or answering a hard question or helping them to learn a new skill - that I consider quality time.

So taking a child to an enjoyable, shared experience isn't quality time? What if I take my kid to the beach? Fishing? A water park? Disney?

I'm curious how old your kids are because if having a conversation is a requisite for quality time, you can write off ages 12-15 right now.

Really? My 12-15 y.o. kids are always happy to have a conversation with us. Must be because they grew up knowing we were available for them whenever they needed us and not just "quality time appointments" penciled in on the calendar at their parents' convenience.

My tongue was firmly in cheek with that comment. But if you have a 13 year old daughter and she's always sunshine, roses, and unicorns farting rainbows (i.e. acknowledging you exist) then I'll just flat out call you a liar.

At any rate, its great that your kids can come to you and talk. That's a huge part of a healthy relationship. But the fallacy of your perspective is that you seem to believe that is only capable with SAHMs. And if the dismissive, superior attitude you've been displaying is any indication of how you interact with and model behavior for your kids- I have my doubts about how great things really are for you. Seems like you have something to prove to everyone which tells me you're trying to prove something to yourself. Just my opinion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The saddest part about this thread is that some of the SAHMs who are so intent on making WOHM feel bad about themselves have daughters of their own, and will teach these daughters that they cannot both have a fulfilling career and be a good mom. Such a false choice. And when some of these daughters do try to maintain careers they've worked their entire lives for and also have children, these women will do their best make them feel awful about it.

See, I've had exactly the opposite thought. When the daughters of all gheae these WOHMs grow up, they're not even going to consider SAH with their kids because their mothers will have ingrained in them, from Day 1, that successful women simply don't stay home with their kids. Instead, they pay other women (lesser beings, in their books), to do the actual childcare. And that is so sad, that these women will never have the support of their own mothers to raise their kids the way they choose, if that way includes staying home with them.

As a SAHM, I'm planning on supporting my daughter in any way I can, whether she chooses to be a WOHM or a SAHM, or any combination of the two. But I'll absolutely be teaching (and showing) her the value and importance of having a SAHP.

Do you actually know any WOHMs really well? You talk about them as if they are a different species that you haven't studied well. Most of the ones I know don't sit around judging other women for their choices. And they certainly don't fit this fantasy nit-SAHM picture you paint. All I want for my daughter is for her to know that she has choices and one is to SAH and one is to WOH. And I want her to be happy with her choice.

Agree, but I hope that by the time she is planning on having kids, that there will be enough change in govt policy and the workplace so that she won't have to make a hard choice. I am grateful that I work in an environment where I received at tremendous amount of time off, paid, and have a flexible schedule (university professor), so that I have been able to have children AND pursue a fulfilling career. Yes, my husband and I need a nanny--not just me, as he needs childcare so that he can go to work, too--and she is wonderful. But, she does not have a PhD, loves working as a nanny, and is well compensated for her work. We don't consider her a lesser being, and we are so thankful to have had her in our lives for several years now. I think that many professional women feel the way I do. I do wonder sometimes if women who choose to SAH have "given up" without pursuing alternative options, and I wish that they would have petitioned their own businesses before quitting for better options for working families, but I don't look down on the choices they've made.

When it comes to SAHPs, you seem to be missing the point. Parents choose to stay home with their kids because this is how they want to raise them - not because they were somehow out of options. Having a SAHP is the option of choice in families that choose to have one.

No, I am not missing the point. You OTOH seem to be ignoring a huge block of well-educated professional women in cities like DC who had to make a hard choice between a career they loved but that required hours or travel incompatible with having a balanced family life once they had children. There are some women out there who gave up their careers because they wanted to SAH, but for many women who went to top colleges, graduate programs, and did well in their early careers, they make the choice with some reluctance. The choice for many is not so starkly black and white as you paint it.

Well, let's see. As one of those well-educated (yes, top college and grad school) women who did very well in my career, I happily chose to SAH once my husband and I had children. It was a choice we were fortunate to have and I am grateful every single day to have this time with our kids. Interestingly, every SAHM I know comes from a similar background (well-educated, prior-professional) and also easily made the choice to stay home - so rather than "ignoring a huge block" of women like myself, I'm actually speaking as one of these women, and I'm surrounded by them every day. My neighborhood and children's schools are full of highly educated SAHMs. At some point, many of us will return to work, but for this time in our children's lives, the choice was indeed simple enough: did we want to continue on the fast-track with our careers and rarely see our children? Or "lean out" in order to "lean in" to our families? While I know some women do find this a difficult decision to make, and often choose to continue working, the SAHMs I know aren't staying home as some sort of "consolation prize" or "last resort." It's a very fortunate situation we find ourselves in and we're absolutely making the most of it.

It seems you equate being highly educated and having a high-level career to be incompatible with enthusiastically choosing to SAH with one's children. Among the women I know, this just isn't the case.

Projecting? I never that SAH was a consolation prize or last resort, only that it is a difficult choice because both options have their plusses and minuses.

BTW, the well-educated women I know seem to be much more aware of how difficult it is to return to the workforce once the kids are in school. You and your cohort seem to be happily ignoring the statistics of the difficulties of on-ramping. All the SAHMs (and my children are now in late elementary school, so several years older than yours) are fully aware of these challenges and made the decision to SAH not as a consolation prize, but after carefully weighing the pros and cons. A good education does enable one to carefully analyze situations, after all.

Hmm. First of all, I'm wondering how you surmised your children are older than mine. My oldest is in middle school, so it seems your analytical skills might need some refining. At any rate, I wouldn't say anyone I know is "happily ignoring" the reality of returning to the workforce; rather that we are enjoying and making the most of the time we have at home with our kids. For some women, perhaps deciding to SAH is a difficult choice. I was simply saying that among women I know, it wasn't.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The saddest part about this thread is that some of the SAHMs who are so intent on making WOHM feel bad about themselves have daughters of their own, and will teach these daughters that they cannot both have a fulfilling career and be a good mom. Such a false choice. And when some of these daughters do try to maintain careers they've worked their entire lives for and also have children, these women will do their best make them feel awful about it.

See, I've had exactly the opposite thought. When the daughters of all gheae these WOHMs grow up, they're not even going to consider SAH with their kids because their mothers will have ingrained in them, from Day 1, that successful women simply don't stay home with their kids. Instead, they pay other women (lesser beings, in their books), to do the actual childcare. And that is so sad, that these women will never have the support of their own mothers to raise their kids the way they choose, if that way includes staying home with them.

As a SAHM, I'm planning on supporting my daughter in any way I can, whether she chooses to be a WOHM or a SAHM, or any combination of the two. But I'll absolutely be teaching (and showing) her the value and importance of having a SAHP.

Do you actually know any WOHMs really well? You talk about them as if they are a different species that you haven't studied well. Most of the ones I know don't sit around judging other women for their choices. And they certainly don't fit this fantasy nit-SAHM picture you paint. All I want for my daughter is for her to know that she has choices and one is to SAH and one is to WOH. And I want her to be happy with her choice.

Agree, but I hope that by the time she is planning on having kids, that there will be enough change in govt policy and the workplace so that she won't have to make a hard choice. I am grateful that I work in an environment where I received at tremendous amount of time off, paid, and have a flexible schedule (university professor), so that I have been able to have children AND pursue a fulfilling career. Yes, my husband and I need a nanny--not just me, as he needs childcare so that he can go to work, too--and she is wonderful. But, she does not have a PhD, loves working as a nanny, and is well compensated for her work. We don't consider her a lesser being, and we are so thankful to have had her in our lives for several years now. I think that many professional women feel the way I do. I do wonder sometimes if women who choose to SAH have "given up" without pursuing alternative options, and I wish that they would have petitioned their own businesses before quitting for better options for working families, but I don't look down on the choices they've made.

When it comes to SAHPs, you seem to be missing the point. Parents choose to stay home with their kids because this is how they want to raise them - not because they were somehow out of options. Having a SAHP is the option of choice in families that choose to have one.

No, I am not missing the point. You OTOH seem to be ignoring a huge block of well-educated professional women in cities like DC who had to make a hard choice between a career they loved but that required hours or travel incompatible with having a balanced family life once they had children. There are some women out there who gave up their careers because they wanted to SAH, but for many women who went to top colleges, graduate programs, and did well in their early careers, they make the choice with some reluctance. The choice for many is not so starkly black and white as you paint it.

Well, let's see. As one of those well-educated (yes, top college and grad school) women who did very well in my career, I happily chose to SAH once my husband and I had children. It was a choice we were fortunate to have and I am grateful every single day to have this time with our kids. Interestingly, every SAHM I know comes from a similar background (well-educated, prior-professional) and also easily made the choice to stay home - so rather than "ignoring a huge block" of women like myself, I'm actually speaking as one of these women, and I'm surrounded by them every day. My neighborhood and children's schools are full of highly educated SAHMs. At some point, many of us will return to work, but for this time in our children's lives, the choice was indeed simple enough: did we want to continue on the fast-track with our careers and rarely see our children? Or "lean out" in order to "lean in" to our families? While I know some women do find this a difficult decision to make, and often choose to continue working, the SAHMs I know aren't staying home as some sort of "consolation prize" or "last resort." It's a very fortunate situation we find ourselves in and we're absolutely making the most of it.

It seems you equate being highly educated and having a high-level career to be incompatible with enthusiastically choosing to SAH with one's children. Among the women I know, this just isn't the case.

Projecting? I never that SAH was a consolation prize or last resort, only that it is a difficult choice because both options have their plusses and minuses.

BTW, the well-educated women I know seem to be much more aware of how difficult it is to return to the workforce once the kids are in school. You and your cohort seem to be happily ignoring the statistics of the difficulties of on-ramping. All the SAHMs (and my children are now in late elementary school, so several years older than yours) are fully aware of these challenges and made the decision to SAH not as a consolation prize, but after carefully weighing the pros and cons. A good education does enable one to carefully analyze situations, after all.

Hmm. First of all, I'm wondering how you surmised your children are older than mine. My oldest is in middle school, so it seems your analytical skills might need some refining. At any rate, I wouldn't say anyone I know is "happily ignoring" the reality of returning to the workforce; rather that we are enjoying and making the most of the time we have at home with our kids. For some women, perhaps deciding to SAH is a difficult choice. I was simply saying that among women I know, it wasn't.

Well, when you say "At some point, many of us will return to work, but for this time in our children's lives, the choice was indeed simple enough: did we want to continue on the fast-track with our careers and rarely see our children? " it implies that one will not be out of the professional workforce for more than a decade. Because if many of your cohort think that they'll be returning to work after staying at home with the kids until high school or college, those women are simply delusional.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The saddest part about this thread is that some of the SAHMs who are so intent on making WOHM feel bad about themselves have daughters of their own, and will teach these daughters that they cannot both have a fulfilling career and be a good mom. Such a false choice. And when some of these daughters do try to maintain careers they've worked their entire lives for and also have children, these women will do their best make them feel awful about it.

See, I've had exactly the opposite thought. When the daughters of all gheae these WOHMs grow up, they're not even going to consider SAH with their kids because their mothers will have ingrained in them, from Day 1, that successful women simply don't stay home with their kids. Instead, they pay other women (lesser beings, in their books), to do the actual childcare. And that is so sad, that these women will never have the support of their own mothers to raise their kids the way they choose, if that way includes staying home with them.

As a SAHM, I'm planning on supporting my daughter in any way I can, whether she chooses to be a WOHM or a SAHM, or any combination of the two. But I'll absolutely be teaching (and showing) her the value and importance of having a SAHP.

Do you actually know any WOHMs really well? You talk about them as if they are a different species that you haven't studied well. Most of the ones I know don't sit around judging other women for their choices. And they certainly don't fit this fantasy nit-SAHM picture you paint. All I want for my daughter is for her to know that she has choices and one is to SAH and one is to WOH. And I want her to be happy with her choice.

Agree, but I hope that by the time she is planning on having kids, that there will be enough change in govt policy and the workplace so that she won't have to make a hard choice. I am grateful that I work in an environment where I received at tremendous amount of time off, paid, and have a flexible schedule (university professor), so that I have been able to have children AND pursue a fulfilling career. Yes, my husband and I need a nanny--not just me, as he needs childcare so that he can go to work, too--and she is wonderful. But, she does not have a PhD, loves working as a nanny, and is well compensated for her work. We don't consider her a lesser being, and we are so thankful to have had her in our lives for several years now. I think that many professional women feel the way I do. I do wonder sometimes if women who choose to SAH have "given up" without pursuing alternative options, and I wish that they would have petitioned their own businesses before quitting for better options for working families, but I don't look down on the choices they've made.

When it comes to SAHPs, you seem to be missing the point. Parents choose to stay home with their kids because this is how they want to raise them - not because they were somehow out of options. Having a SAHP is the option of choice in families that choose to have one.

No, I am not missing the point. You OTOH seem to be ignoring a huge block of well-educated professional women in cities like DC who had to make a hard choice between a career they loved but that required hours or travel incompatible with having a balanced family life once they had children. There are some women out there who gave up their careers because they wanted to SAH, but for many women who went to top colleges, graduate programs, and did well in their early careers, they make the choice with some reluctance. The choice for many is not so starkly black and white as you paint it.

Well, let's see. As one of those well-educated (yes, top college and grad school) women who did very well in my career, I happily chose to SAH once my husband and I had children. It was a choice we were fortunate to have and I am grateful every single day to have this time with our kids. Interestingly, every SAHM I know comes from a similar background (well-educated, prior-professional) and also easily made the choice to stay home - so rather than "ignoring a huge block" of women like myself, I'm actually speaking as one of these women, and I'm surrounded by them every day. My neighborhood and children's schools are full of highly educated SAHMs. At some point, many of us will return to work, but for this time in our children's lives, the choice was indeed simple enough: did we want to continue on the fast-track with our careers and rarely see our children? Or "lean out" in order to "lean in" to our families? While I know some women do find this a difficult decision to make, and often choose to continue working, the SAHMs I know aren't staying home as some sort of "consolation prize" or "last resort." It's a very fortunate situation we find ourselves in and we're absolutely making the most of it.

It seems you equate being highly educated and having a high-level career to be incompatible with enthusiastically choosing to SAH with one's children. Among the women I know, this just isn't the case.

I WOH and I would never characterize my situation as "rarely seeing my children." That's the kind of shit that SAHPs say that just pisses me off. I have never once come on and here and throw shit at SAHPs. I believe everyone should do what works for them. And I certainly don't take pot shots buried in a post.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The saddest part about this thread is that some of the SAHMs who are so intent on making WOHM feel bad about themselves have daughters of their own, and will teach these daughters that they cannot both have a fulfilling career and be a good mom. Such a false choice. And when some of these daughters do try to maintain careers they've worked their entire lives for and also have children, these women will do their best make them feel awful about it.

See, I've had exactly the opposite thought. When the daughters of all gheae these WOHMs grow up, they're not even going to consider SAH with their kids because their mothers will have ingrained in them, from Day 1, that successful women simply don't stay home with their kids. Instead, they pay other women (lesser beings, in their books), to do the actual childcare. And that is so sad, that these women will never have the support of their own mothers to raise their kids the way they choose, if that way includes staying home with them.

As a SAHM, I'm planning on supporting my daughter in any way I can, whether she chooses to be a WOHM or a SAHM, or any combination of the two. But I'll absolutely be teaching (and showing) her the value and importance of having a SAHP.

Do you actually know any WOHMs really well? You talk about them as if they are a different species that you haven't studied well. Most of the ones I know don't sit around judging other women for their choices. And they certainly don't fit this fantasy nit-SAHM picture you paint. All I want for my daughter is for her to know that she has choices and one is to SAH and one is to WOH. And I want her to be happy with her choice.

Agree, but I hope that by the time she is planning on having kids, that there will be enough change in govt policy and the workplace so that she won't have to make a hard choice. I am grateful that I work in an environment where I received at tremendous amount of time off, paid, and have a flexible schedule (university professor), so that I have been able to have children AND pursue a fulfilling career. Yes, my husband and I need a nanny--not just me, as he needs childcare so that he can go to work, too--and she is wonderful. But, she does not have a PhD, loves working as a nanny, and is well compensated for her work. We don't consider her a lesser being, and we are so thankful to have had her in our lives for several years now. I think that many professional women feel the way I do. I do wonder sometimes if women who choose to SAH have "given up" without pursuing alternative options, and I wish that they would have petitioned their own businesses before quitting for better options for working families, but I don't look down on the choices they've made.

When it comes to SAHPs, you seem to be missing the point. Parents choose to stay home with their kids because this is how they want to raise them - not because they were somehow out of options. Having a SAHP is the option of choice in families that choose to have one.

No, I am not missing the point. You OTOH seem to be ignoring a huge block of well-educated professional women in cities like DC who had to make a hard choice between a career they loved but that required hours or travel incompatible with having a balanced family life once they had children. There are some women out there who gave up their careers because they wanted to SAH, but for many women who went to top colleges, graduate programs, and did well in their early careers, they make the choice with some reluctance. The choice for many is not so starkly black and white as you paint it.

Well, let's see. As one of those well-educated (yes, top college and grad school) women who did very well in my career, I happily chose to SAH once my husband and I had children. It was a choice we were fortunate to have and I am grateful every single day to have this time with our kids. Interestingly, every SAHM I know comes from a similar background (well-educated, prior-professional) and also easily made the choice to stay home - so rather than "ignoring a huge block" of women like myself, I'm actually speaking as one of these women, and I'm surrounded by them every day. My neighborhood and children's schools are full of highly educated SAHMs. At some point, many of us will return to work, but for this time in our children's lives, the choice was indeed simple enough: did we want to continue on the fast-track with our careers and rarely see our children? Or "lean out" in order to "lean in" to our families? While I know some women do find this a difficult decision to make, and often choose to continue working, the SAHMs I know aren't staying home as some sort of "consolation prize" or "last resort." It's a very fortunate situation we find ourselves in and we're absolutely making the most of it.

It seems you equate being highly educated and having a high-level career to be incompatible with enthusiastically choosing to SAH with one's children. Among the women I know, this just isn't the case.

Projecting? I never that SAH was a consolation prize or last resort, only that it is a difficult choice because both options have their plusses and minuses.

BTW, the well-educated women I know seem to be much more aware of how difficult it is to return to the workforce once the kids are in school. You and your cohort seem to be happily ignoring the statistics of the difficulties of on-ramping. All the SAHMs (and my children are now in late elementary school, so several years older than yours) are fully aware of these challenges and made the decision to SAH not as a consolation prize, but after carefully weighing the pros and cons. A good education does enable one to carefully analyze situations, after all.

Hmm. First of all, I'm wondering how you surmised your children are older than mine. My oldest is in middle school, so it seems your analytical skills might need some refining. At any rate, I wouldn't say anyone I know is "happily ignoring" the reality of returning to the workforce; rather that we are enjoying and making the most of the time we have at home with our kids. For some women, perhaps deciding to SAH is a difficult choice. I was simply saying that among women I know, it wasn't.

Well, when you say "At some point, many of us will return to work, but for this time in our children's lives, the choice was indeed simple enough: did we want to continue on the fast-track with our careers and rarely see our children? " it implies that one will not be out of the professional workforce for more than a decade. Because if many of your cohort think that they'll be returning to work after staying at home with the kids until high school or college, those women are simply delusional.

Really? Ok, you go right ahead and think that if it makes you feel more satisfied with your own choice. I assure you, those of us who intend to return to the workforce will absolutely do so. See you there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The saddest part about this thread is that some of the SAHMs who are so intent on making WOHM feel bad about themselves have daughters of their own, and will teach these daughters that they cannot both have a fulfilling career and be a good mom. Such a false choice. And when some of these daughters do try to maintain careers they've worked their entire lives for and also have children, these women will do their best make them feel awful about it.

See, I've had exactly the opposite thought. When the daughters of all gheae these WOHMs grow up, they're not even going to consider SAH with their kids because their mothers will have ingrained in them, from Day 1, that successful women simply don't stay home with their kids. Instead, they pay other women (lesser beings, in their books), to do the actual childcare. And that is so sad, that these women will never have the support of their own mothers to raise their kids the way they choose, if that way includes staying home with them.

As a SAHM, I'm planning on supporting my daughter in any way I can, whether she chooses to be a WOHM or a SAHM, or any combination of the two. But I'll absolutely be teaching (and showing) her the value and importance of having a SAHP.

Do you actually know any WOHMs really well? You talk about them as if they are a different species that you haven't studied well. Most of the ones I know don't sit around judging other women for their choices. And they certainly don't fit this fantasy nit-SAHM picture you paint. All I want for my daughter is for her to know that she has choices and one is to SAH and one is to WOH. And I want her to be happy with her choice.

Agree, but I hope that by the time she is planning on having kids, that there will be enough change in govt policy and the workplace so that she won't have to make a hard choice. I am grateful that I work in an environment where I received at tremendous amount of time off, paid, and have a flexible schedule (university professor), so that I have been able to have children AND pursue a fulfilling career. Yes, my husband and I need a nanny--not just me, as he needs childcare so that he can go to work, too--and she is wonderful. But, she does not have a PhD, loves working as a nanny, and is well compensated for her work. We don't consider her a lesser being, and we are so thankful to have had her in our lives for several years now. I think that many professional women feel the way I do. I do wonder sometimes if women who choose to SAH have "given up" without pursuing alternative options, and I wish that they would have petitioned their own businesses before quitting for better options for working families, but I don't look down on the choices they've made.

When it comes to SAHPs, you seem to be missing the point. Parents choose to stay home with their kids because this is how they want to raise them - not because they were somehow out of options. Having a SAHP is the option of choice in families that choose to have one.

No, I am not missing the point. You OTOH seem to be ignoring a huge block of well-educated professional women in cities like DC who had to make a hard choice between a career they loved but that required hours or travel incompatible with having a balanced family life once they had children. There are some women out there who gave up their careers because they wanted to SAH, but for many women who went to top colleges, graduate programs, and did well in their early careers, they make the choice with some reluctance. The choice for many is not so starkly black and white as you paint it.

Well, let's see. As one of those well-educated (yes, top college and grad school) women who did very well in my career, I happily chose to SAH once my husband and I had children. It was a choice we were fortunate to have and I am grateful every single day to have this time with our kids. Interestingly, every SAHM I know comes from a similar background (well-educated, prior-professional) and also easily made the choice to stay home - so rather than "ignoring a huge block" of women like myself, I'm actually speaking as one of these women, and I'm surrounded by them every day. My neighborhood and children's schools are full of highly educated SAHMs. At some point, many of us will return to work, but for this time in our children's lives, the choice was indeed simple enough: did we want to continue on the fast-track with our careers and rarely see our children? Or "lean out" in order to "lean in" to our families? While I know some women do find this a difficult decision to make, and often choose to continue working, the SAHMs I know aren't staying home as some sort of "consolation prize" or "last resort." It's a very fortunate situation we find ourselves in and we're absolutely making the most of it.

It seems you equate being highly educated and having a high-level career to be incompatible with enthusiastically choosing to SAH with one's children. Among the women I know, this just isn't the case.

I WOH and I would never characterize my situation as "rarely seeing my children." That's the kind of shit that SAHPs say that just pisses me off. I have never once come on and here and throw shit at SAHPs. I believe everyone should do what works for them. And I certainly don't take pot shots buried in a post.

How about you should do what works best for your kid?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The saddest part about this thread is that some of the SAHMs who are so intent on making WOHM feel bad about themselves have daughters of their own, and will teach these daughters that they cannot both have a fulfilling career and be a good mom. Such a false choice. And when some of these daughters do try to maintain careers they've worked their entire lives for and also have children, these women will do their best make them feel awful about it.

See, I've had exactly the opposite thought. When the daughters of all gheae these WOHMs grow up, they're not even going to consider SAH with their kids because their mothers will have ingrained in them, from Day 1, that successful women simply don't stay home with their kids. Instead, they pay other women (lesser beings, in their books), to do the actual childcare. And that is so sad, that these women will never have the support of their own mothers to raise their kids the way they choose, if that way includes staying home with them.

As a SAHM, I'm planning on supporting my daughter in any way I can, whether she chooses to be a WOHM or a SAHM, or any combination of the two. But I'll absolutely be teaching (and showing) her the value and importance of having a SAHP.

Do you actually know any WOHMs really well? You talk about them as if they are a different species that you haven't studied well. Most of the ones I know don't sit around judging other women for their choices. And they certainly don't fit this fantasy nit-SAHM picture you paint. All I want for my daughter is for her to know that she has choices and one is to SAH and one is to WOH. And I want her to be happy with her choice.

Agree, but I hope that by the time she is planning on having kids, that there will be enough change in govt policy and the workplace so that she won't have to make a hard choice. I am grateful that I work in an environment where I received at tremendous amount of time off, paid, and have a flexible schedule (university professor), so that I have been able to have children AND pursue a fulfilling career. Yes, my husband and I need a nanny--not just me, as he needs childcare so that he can go to work, too--and she is wonderful. But, she does not have a PhD, loves working as a nanny, and is well compensated for her work. We don't consider her a lesser being, and we are so thankful to have had her in our lives for several years now. I think that many professional women feel the way I do. I do wonder sometimes if women who choose to SAH have "given up" without pursuing alternative options, and I wish that they would have petitioned their own businesses before quitting for better options for working families, but I don't look down on the choices they've made.

When it comes to SAHPs, you seem to be missing the point. Parents choose to stay home with their kids because this is how they want to raise them - not because they were somehow out of options. Having a SAHP is the option of choice in families that choose to have one.

No, I am not missing the point. You OTOH seem to be ignoring a huge block of well-educated professional women in cities like DC who had to make a hard choice between a career they loved but that required hours or travel incompatible with having a balanced family life once they had children. There are some women out there who gave up their careers because they wanted to SAH, but for many women who went to top colleges, graduate programs, and did well in their early careers, they make the choice with some reluctance. The choice for many is not so starkly black and white as you paint it.

Well, let's see. As one of those well-educated (yes, top college and grad school) women who did very well in my career, I happily chose to SAH once my husband and I had children. It was a choice we were fortunate to have and I am grateful every single day to have this time with our kids. Interestingly, every SAHM I know comes from a similar background (well-educated, prior-professional) and also easily made the choice to stay home - so rather than "ignoring a huge block" of women like myself, I'm actually speaking as one of these women, and I'm surrounded by them every day. My neighborhood and children's schools are full of highly educated SAHMs. At some point, many of us will return to work, but for this time in our children's lives, the choice was indeed simple enough: did we want to continue on the fast-track with our careers and rarely see our children? Or "lean out" in order to "lean in" to our families? While I know some women do find this a difficult decision to make, and often choose to continue working, the SAHMs I know aren't staying home as some sort of "consolation prize" or "last resort." It's a very fortunate situation we find ourselves in and we're absolutely making the most of it.

It seems you equate being highly educated and having a high-level career to be incompatible with enthusiastically choosing to SAH with one's children. Among the women I know, this just isn't the case.

I WOH and I would never characterize my situation as "rarely seeing my children." That's the kind of shit that SAHPs say that just pisses me off. I have never once come on and here and throw shit at SAHPs. I believe everyone should do what works for them. And I certainly don't take pot shots buried in a post.

How about you should do what works best for your kid?

"Them" meaning the entire family. What a piece of crap you are.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The saddest part about this thread is that some of the SAHMs who are so intent on making WOHM feel bad about themselves have daughters of their own, and will teach these daughters that they cannot both have a fulfilling career and be a good mom. Such a false choice. And when some of these daughters do try to maintain careers they've worked their entire lives for and also have children, these women will do their best make them feel awful about it.

See, I've had exactly the opposite thought. When the daughters of all gheae these WOHMs grow up, they're not even going to consider SAH with their kids because their mothers will have ingrained in them, from Day 1, that successful women simply don't stay home with their kids. Instead, they pay other women (lesser beings, in their books), to do the actual childcare. And that is so sad, that these women will never have the support of their own mothers to raise their kids the way they choose, if that way includes staying home with them.

As a SAHM, I'm planning on supporting my daughter in any way I can, whether she chooses to be a WOHM or a SAHM, or any combination of the two. But I'll absolutely be teaching (and showing) her the value and importance of having a SAHP.

Do you actually know any WOHMs really well? You talk about them as if they are a different species that you haven't studied well. Most of the ones I know don't sit around judging other women for their choices. And they certainly don't fit this fantasy nit-SAHM picture you paint. All I want for my daughter is for her to know that she has choices and one is to SAH and one is to WOH. And I want her to be happy with her choice.

Agree, but I hope that by the time she is planning on having kids, that there will be enough change in govt policy and the workplace so that she won't have to make a hard choice. I am grateful that I work in an environment where I received at tremendous amount of time off, paid, and have a flexible schedule (university professor), so that I have been able to have children AND pursue a fulfilling career. Yes, my husband and I need a nanny--not just me, as he needs childcare so that he can go to work, too--and she is wonderful. But, she does not have a PhD, loves working as a nanny, and is well compensated for her work. We don't consider her a lesser being, and we are so thankful to have had her in our lives for several years now. I think that many professional women feel the way I do. I do wonder sometimes if women who choose to SAH have "given up" without pursuing alternative options, and I wish that they would have petitioned their own businesses before quitting for better options for working families, but I don't look down on the choices they've made.

When it comes to SAHPs, you seem to be missing the point. Parents choose to stay home with their kids because this is how they want to raise them - not because they were somehow out of options. Having a SAHP is the option of choice in families that choose to have one.

No, I am not missing the point. You OTOH seem to be ignoring a huge block of well-educated professional women in cities like DC who had to make a hard choice between a career they loved but that required hours or travel incompatible with having a balanced family life once they had children. There are some women out there who gave up their careers because they wanted to SAH, but for many women who went to top colleges, graduate programs, and did well in their early careers, they make the choice with some reluctance. The choice for many is not so starkly black and white as you paint it.

Well, let's see. As one of those well-educated (yes, top college and grad school) women who did very well in my career, I happily chose to SAH once my husband and I had children. It was a choice we were fortunate to have and I am grateful every single day to have this time with our kids. Interestingly, every SAHM I know comes from a similar background (well-educated, prior-professional) and also easily made the choice to stay home - so rather than "ignoring a huge block" of women like myself, I'm actually speaking as one of these women, and I'm surrounded by them every day. My neighborhood and children's schools are full of highly educated SAHMs. At some point, many of us will return to work, but for this time in our children's lives, the choice was indeed simple enough: did we want to continue on the fast-track with our careers and rarely see our children? Or "lean out" in order to "lean in" to our families? While I know some women do find this a difficult decision to make, and often choose to continue working, the SAHMs I know aren't staying home as some sort of "consolation prize" or "last resort." It's a very fortunate situation we find ourselves in and we're absolutely making the most of it.

It seems you equate being highly educated and having a high-level career to be incompatible with enthusiastically choosing to SAH with one's children. Among the women I know, this just isn't the case.

Projecting? I never that SAH was a consolation prize or last resort, only that it is a difficult choice because both options have their plusses and minuses.

BTW, the well-educated women I know seem to be much more aware of how difficult it is to return to the workforce once the kids are in school. You and your cohort seem to be happily ignoring the statistics of the difficulties of on-ramping. All the SAHMs (and my children are now in late elementary school, so several years older than yours) are fully aware of these challenges and made the decision to SAH not as a consolation prize, but after carefully weighing the pros and cons. A good education does enable one to carefully analyze situations, after all.

Hmm. First of all, I'm wondering how you surmised your children are older than mine. My oldest is in middle school, so it seems your analytical skills might need some refining. At any rate, I wouldn't say anyone I know is "happily ignoring" the reality of returning to the workforce; rather that we are enjoying and making the most of the time we have at home with our kids. For some women, perhaps deciding to SAH is a difficult choice. I was simply saying that among women I know, it wasn't.

Well, when you say "At some point, many of us will return to work, but for this time in our children's lives, the choice was indeed simple enough: did we want to continue on the fast-track with our careers and rarely see our children? " it implies that one will not be out of the professional workforce for more than a decade. Because if many of your cohort think that they'll be returning to work after staying at home with the kids until high school or college, those women are simply delusional.

Really? Ok, you go right ahead and think that if it makes you feel more satisfied with your own choice. I assure you, those of us who intend to return to the workforce will absolutely do so. See you there.

We won't be on the same floors, so nope, won't see you there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The saddest part about this thread is that some of the SAHMs who are so intent on making WOHM feel bad about themselves have daughters of their own, and will teach these daughters that they cannot both have a fulfilling career and be a good mom. Such a false choice. And when some of these daughters do try to maintain careers they've worked their entire lives for and also have children, these women will do their best make them feel awful about it.

See, I've had exactly the opposite thought. When the daughters of all gheae these WOHMs grow up, they're not even going to consider SAH with their kids because their mothers will have ingrained in them, from Day 1, that successful women simply don't stay home with their kids. Instead, they pay other women (lesser beings, in their books), to do the actual childcare. And that is so sad, that these women will never have the support of their own mothers to raise their kids the way they choose, if that way includes staying home with them.

As a SAHM, I'm planning on supporting my daughter in any way I can, whether she chooses to be a WOHM or a SAHM, or any combination of the two. But I'll absolutely be teaching (and showing) her the value and importance of having a SAHP.

Do you actually know any WOHMs really well? You talk about them as if they are a different species that you haven't studied well. Most of the ones I know don't sit around judging other women for their choices. And they certainly don't fit this fantasy nit-SAHM picture you paint. All I want for my daughter is for her to know that she has choices and one is to SAH and one is to WOH. And I want her to be happy with her choice.

Agree, but I hope that by the time she is planning on having kids, that there will be enough change in govt policy and the workplace so that she won't have to make a hard choice. I am grateful that I work in an environment where I received at tremendous amount of time off, paid, and have a flexible schedule (university professor), so that I have been able to have children AND pursue a fulfilling career. Yes, my husband and I need a nanny--not just me, as he needs childcare so that he can go to work, too--and she is wonderful. But, she does not have a PhD, loves working as a nanny, and is well compensated for her work. We don't consider her a lesser being, and we are so thankful to have had her in our lives for several years now. I think that many professional women feel the way I do. I do wonder sometimes if women who choose to SAH have "given up" without pursuing alternative options, and I wish that they would have petitioned their own businesses before quitting for better options for working families, but I don't look down on the choices they've made.

When it comes to SAHPs, you seem to be missing the point. Parents choose to stay home with their kids because this is how they want to raise them - not because they were somehow out of options. Having a SAHP is the option of choice in families that choose to have one.

No, I am not missing the point. You OTOH seem to be ignoring a huge block of well-educated professional women in cities like DC who had to make a hard choice between a career they loved but that required hours or travel incompatible with having a balanced family life once they had children. There are some women out there who gave up their careers because they wanted to SAH, but for many women who went to top colleges, graduate programs, and did well in their early careers, they make the choice with some reluctance. The choice for many is not so starkly black and white as you paint it.

Well, let's see. As one of those well-educated (yes, top college and grad school) women who did very well in my career, I happily chose to SAH once my husband and I had children. It was a choice we were fortunate to have and I am grateful every single day to have this time with our kids. Interestingly, every SAHM I know comes from a similar background (well-educated, prior-professional) and also easily made the choice to stay home - so rather than "ignoring a huge block" of women like myself, I'm actually speaking as one of these women, and I'm surrounded by them every day. My neighborhood and children's schools are full of highly educated SAHMs. At some point, many of us will return to work, but for this time in our children's lives, the choice was indeed simple enough: did we want to continue on the fast-track with our careers and rarely see our children? Or "lean out" in order to "lean in" to our families? While I know some women do find this a difficult decision to make, and often choose to continue working, the SAHMs I know aren't staying home as some sort of "consolation prize" or "last resort." It's a very fortunate situation we find ourselves in and we're absolutely making the most of it.

It seems you equate being highly educated and having a high-level career to be incompatible with enthusiastically choosing to SAH with one's children. Among the women I know, this just isn't the case.

I WOH and I would never characterize my situation as "rarely seeing my children." That's the kind of shit that SAHPs say that just pisses me off. I have never once come on and here and throw shit at SAHPs. I believe everyone should do what works for them. And I certainly don't take pot shots buried in a post.

How about you should do what works best for your kid?

"Them" meaning the entire family. What a piece of crap you are.

+1. Honestly.

[Anonymous]

Right, just get a sub who can do an adequate(?) job with your kid.
Is that your minimum requirement?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Really? Ok, you go right ahead and think that if it makes you feel more satisfied with your own choice. I assure you, those of us who intend to return to the workforce will absolutely do so. See you there.

NP here- just curious, what field are you and all your friends in? I like the idea of taking off a few years to stay home, but know it would be really difficult to get back into my field after that long of a layoff (STEM field). Sometimes I wish I had picked something where it was easier to jump in and out. Even though you don't know anyone like this, there really are a lot of us who struggle with the decision! I am jealous that it was so easy for you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Really? Ok, you go right ahead and think that if it makes you feel more satisfied with your own choice. I assure you, those of us who intend to return to the workforce will absolutely do so. See you there.

NP here- just curious, what field are you and all your friends in? I like the idea of taking off a few years to stay home, but know it would be really difficult to get back into my field after that long of a layoff (STEM field). Sometimes I wish I had picked something where it was easier to jump in and out. Even though you don't know anyone like this, there really are a lot of us who struggle with the decision! I am jealous that it was so easy for you.

It hasn't happened yet. Many of us wouldnt hire someone who'd taken years as a SAHM. Wait and see, my dears.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Really? Ok, you go right ahead and think that if it makes you feel more satisfied with your own choice. I assure you, those of us who intend to return to the workforce will absolutely do so. See you there.

NP here- just curious, what field are you and all your friends in? I like the idea of taking off a few years to stay home, but know it would be really difficult to get back into my field after that long of a layoff (STEM field). Sometimes I wish I had picked something where it was easier to jump in and out. Even though you don't know anyone like this, there really are a lot of us who struggle with the decision! I am jealous that it was so easy for you.

It hasn't happened yet. Many of us wouldnt hire someone who'd taken years as a SAHM. Wait and see, my dears.

LOL. Sure. As if you're in any position to hire someone.

[Anonymous]

Some of you are plain nasty. Nasty office atmosphere?