Would you really leave America if Trump/Musk are scaring you?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:You're going to feel pretty silly if the next election cycle results in changes in domestic politics and all of a sudden the sky stops falling. Relocating internationally with shifting political winds seems foolish, at best, not to mention expensive and disruptive.

But, if you wear a tinfoil hat and assume there will be no further elections in the U.S. ever, you'll be patting yourself on the back.

Which scenario seems the more likely?

My grandparents lived through WWII in Europe. My grandfather was an RAF pilot. My father fled a dictatorship in a once prosperous and peaceful nation. "Things fall apart, the system cannot hold". There is nothing magical about the US that will keep us from falling into this. No one is coming to save us.

The quote is “things fall apart, the center cannot hold.” It’s from The Second Coming by Yeats.

I was paraphrasing and actually referencing the novel by Chinua Achebe which is about a breakdown of a political system. Hope this helps!

Not really. Achebe used the famous line from Yeats’ poem for his title. The way you wrote it implied it was the quote, which it most certainly isn’t.

He used the first part of the line as the title. I specifically wrote system because the political system is what we're talking about. Anyway glad you got to be pedantic on the internet today! "And say my glory was I had such friends"

Oh just piss off, you wannabe limey.

Hahaha Yates, famously Irish? Limey means British. They...don't like each other. You are learning so much today!

Nope, well aware and recently spent a month in County Sligo which is Yeats country. The PP said she wanted to immigrate to the UK as her grandparents were from the UK. She is a wannabe limey.

Also it’s Yeats, not Yates. Seems like you’re on a roll. Please do leave for the UK. Bland food and terrible weather likely suit you. I always laugh when I see the little UK cars driving around near where I live with huge UK sticker on the back. You’ll fit right in with that dowdy lot.

^ this definitely screams low-class MAGA

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I plan to stay.

If I had kids under 18 I would leave.

I have kids starting college in 2025 and 2027- how would you leave in my place? Serious question, they want to stay!

They are probably old enough so that they would not want to go. If you have younger kids, start now.

[Anonymous]

If we could afford it, we'd be long gone by now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I plan to stay.

If I had kids under 18 I would leave.

I have kids starting college in 2025 and 2027- how would you leave in my place? Serious question, they want to stay!

They are probably old enough so that they would not want to go. If you have younger kids, start now.

Is 11-12 young enough?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:You're going to feel pretty silly if the next election cycle results in changes in domestic politics and all of a sudden the sky stops falling. Relocating internationally with shifting political winds seems foolish, at best, not to mention expensive and disruptive.

But, if you wear a tinfoil hat and assume there will be no further elections in the U.S. ever, you'll be patting yourself on the back.

Which scenario seems the more likely?

My grandparents lived through WWII in Europe. My grandfather was an RAF pilot. My father fled a dictatorship in a once prosperous and peaceful nation. "Things fall apart, the system cannot hold". There is nothing magical about the US that will keep us from falling into this. No one is coming to save us.

The quote is “things fall apart, the center cannot hold.” It’s from The Second Coming by Yeats.

I was paraphrasing and actually referencing the novel by Chinua Achebe which is about a breakdown of a political system. Hope this helps!

Not really. Achebe used the famous line from Yeats’ poem for his title. The way you wrote it implied it was the quote, which it most certainly isn’t.

He used the first part of the line as the title. I specifically wrote system because the political system is what we're talking about. Anyway glad you got to be pedantic on the internet today! "And say my glory was I had such friends"

Oh just piss off, you wannabe limey.

Hahaha Yates, famously Irish? Limey means British. They...don't like each other. You are learning so much today!

Nope, well aware and recently spent a month in County Sligo which is Yeats country. The PP said she wanted to immigrate to the UK as her grandparents were from the UK. She is a wannabe limey.

Also it’s Yeats, not Yates. Seems like you’re on a roll. Please do leave for the UK. Bland food and terrible weather likely suit you. I always laugh when I see the little UK cars driving around near where I live with huge UK sticker on the back. You’ll fit right in with that dowdy lot.

^ this definitely screams low-class MAGA

Because they all have an inferiority complex.

[Anonymous]

Yes. If I had the money I would’ve been gone

[Anonymous]

They are scaring me that my home value may decrease in the short run. Hopefully the Mag 7 will bring enough high paid individuals to the DMV to compensate for the loss of high paid government workers/contractors.

[Anonymous]

Troops on the street and I'm out.

[Anonymous]

I’m not sure there’s anyplace to hide, really. This is a global problem. We’ve just about exceeded the planet’s carrying capacity. Climate change is accelerating. Right wing authoritarianism is on the rise everywhere. Putin and Trump are trying to carve up the Western hemisphere between them. I wouldn’t want to be in Europe and caught in the middle of that. I also wouldn’t want to live anywhere near the equator as the planet heats up.

I’ve been thinking about buying a couple of acres in a remote spot for off-grid living, but that comes with its own set of challenges, and it still wouldn’t be exactly the peaceful retirement I had envisioned.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Moving to Europe in a few weeks. I have dual citizenship through a grandparent. We’ll stay long enough for kids and spouse to naturalize and reevaluate.

Will still keep up the barrage of calls to my elected representatives as this chaos continues.

Which country? If you don’t want to say, ballpark?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If the next election were to be canceled or martial law imposed, I would leave, but with a heavy heart to watch the sunset on democracy. However, I’m not sure Europe would not follow suit if that happens.

In most modern dictatorships elections are not cancelled, but regularly take place, and martial law is only imposed periodically and very temporarily, if at all. You will just never know, why the same party always wins.

[Anonymous]

I've had it in the back of my head, but the last week's have made it more serious. I am worried about WW3 and being in the country on the wrong side of history.

I work for a UK-based company that also has strong ties to an EU-based one, so a transfer is something we would consider.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Not hyperbole, would you really leave and move to another country? What would be the final draw for you?

What country wants them?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Look at Australia. Very receptive to immigrants - 31% population born overseas. Far from the troubles of the US and Europe (but with its own anxiety over China). Skills shortages. Universities accept lot of international students. More than 100,000 Americans already live in Australia. On the negative side, high COL and tough housing market.

My European family live in the U.S. and Australia. Not sure how you think Australia is open to immigrants. The illegals are shipped off to an island with well-documented abuse and the legal are not treated very well. We are white so fared much better but Australia is well-known for being racist.

Thank you, PP. I spent three months in Australia and found it one of the most racist places in the world. I’ve visited 97 countries so that is my comparison. The way they ship immigrants to Nauru is awful. They even had a deal to send some immigrants to the US. Look it up. While you’re researching, look at the appalling treatment towards the indigenous there. It’s a stark difference from how the Māori are treated in New Zealand. NZ is a far nicer country.

No doubt there’s racism in Australia and it deals with illegal arrivals very harshly, but I haven’t heard of any migrants being shot there because of their ethnicity. 30% of Australians were born overseas so it’s a fact that it’s much more open to migrants than the US.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'd leave because I'm an immigrant who knows what collapse looks like. I'm monitoring the situation every day.

I've lived through the collapse of a nation the currency of which was stronger than the dollar. All of the economist and pundits said that rumors of a collapse were greatly exaggerated. We learned the hard way how quickly these things happen. By the time everyone knows it's happening, it's too late to leave. You have to see the wave coming and escape before the tsunami hits.

My parents (a doctor and lawyer with five degrees between the two of them) got out just in the nick of time, with their highly educated, well resourced employers, family members, and friends telling them they were absolutely bonkers. My Dad was the one who saw things coming and convinced my Mom to leave with him and us kids. I was in my tweens and I, too, thought my Dad was crazy. Within months, all of the people who had told us we'd be back soon were begging for help to escape abroad, but it was too late.

The moment everyone starts to run for the borders, other countries will implement policies restricting or banning emigration from you country and close their doors to you.

I am fully convinced that in my lifetime, I am going to see this great nation experience a mass exit. It won't even take much by other country standards because Americans have grown accustomed to a standard of living that has long been unsustainable and our oligarchy is trying to tear that standard of living down for its own nefarious purposes.

I just need 10 more years, but if necessary, I could be at the airport with my children today. My American husband lives in denial and that's on him.

You have me completely intrigued in regard to which country experienced this. And good on your dad. It is not easy to see the moment coming, and navigating the timing.