Question about the homophobia thread

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The reason that detransitioners are embraced solely by awful republicans with ulterior motives is because everyone else tries to silence them.

What other groups support them? Who else is allowing them share their stories? You see it here in this thread that parents who are trying to stand up for themselves against unethical doctors are called liars. They’re shunned.

This is why I say trans activists should embrace them. If your goal is to ensure proper trans care, those detransitioners who are treated poorly by unethical doctors or whomever have an important voice, too.

Yes, I spend time in r/detrans. I tell you that only to indicate that these people are real with real stories and real pain and real voices.

They have nowhere to go. They were once trans. They matter, too.

How about those who detransition, but then regret it and re-transition? Do they have stories to tell and do you think their voices are important for the debate? Do you think they should be promoted similarly?

YES, of course they have voices, too. Of course!

I think everyone involved should have their voices heard. It’s odd that you would think I’d want to silence any voices. I never indicated that I support silencing contrary opinions….like many activists do.

When you take up all of the oxygen about detransitioners then you are effectively silencing the vast majority of transgender people.

Interesting. Do you also see how trans women take up all the oxygen with respect to women’s rights?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Isn’t the debate over how young is it appropriate to engage in this risky, major surgery?

Adults can obviously do whatever they want.

Some of the posters here assert that gender identity is solely a manifestation of mental illness. So, presumably they are also opposed to medical transitions by adults.

I am one of those people. I do believe it is a mental illness. But I also work in a mental health facility and I don’t stigmatize mental illness like many others do. I don’t think trans people are “less than” if they have a mental disorder causing them to feel the way they do. I don’t think any of my patients are “less than.” And we have the extreme cases. They are all individuals deserving of compassion. And proper treatment.
I think there is a reason that people need extensive mental health counseling before they can transition. I am 100% opposed to adolescents transitioning. Adults can do whatever they please.

Are you the “nurse” who has posted on prior threads?

Nope.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So if it isn’t a mental health issue, it’s considered cosmetic and therefor should not be covered by insurance

Circumcision is covered, so is breast reconstruction, so is a million other things but we cover it. Why aren’t you outraged about that?

Breast reconstruction isn’t covered for women who mistakenly believed they were trans as teens and had mastectomies.

Way to miss the point. Reconstructions aren’t medically necessary for women who had cancer either. We cover them because we know how important it is for a woman to feel like a woman.

Because there is an obvious biological component to being a woman that induces certain feelings that no biological man could ever experience or imagine.

Was that your experience as a transgender woman?

Are you saying a trans woman knows what it feels like to menstruate? To go through post pardum depression? To have a miscarriage? To have hot flashes? Please explain.

I’m saying you have no idea what it’s like to be a transgender woman.

And FYI those experiences do not define women.

And what feelings exactly do trans women have that make them women? I get that this is an incendiary question but isn’t it a logical one?

Do you ask all women that question?

There are no universal “feelings” for being a woman.

That’s because being a woman is defined by chromosomes and biology- not “feelings.”

You’re referring to sex.

Here you go:

No sweetheart I’m not. Sex, chromosomes and biology define a woman, which is simply an adult human female. There is no such thing as gender, except in the realm of languages

Are all of the bigots this ignorant?

https://www.who.int/health-topics/gender#tab=tab_1
“Gender refers to the characteristics of women, men, girls and boys that are socially constructed. This includes norms, behaviours and roles associated with being a woman, man, girl or boy, as well as relationships with each other. As a social construct, gender varies from society to society and can change over time.”

So my sincere question is - if gender is defined by norms, behaviors and roles, why does a transgender male need to have his breasts removed? They are merely a biological part of their anatomy. It seems like that makes a person transsex- they want the biological anatomy of the sex they identify with.

Anyone?

Most transgender males do not need to have their breasts removed. Most transitions are purely social. How people transition (most transitions are not medical) and their reasons for doing so are personal and each individual has their own reasons for doing so. None of us can answer as to "why" on their behalf.

Thank you for you answer Jeff. I get that it is an individual decision for everyone. I guess I am stuck on the people who have gender affirming surgery. Because it’s not really gender affirming, is is biological sex affirming. If people want to say that sex and gender are two different things, this muddies the water for me. I just don’t get it.

Why do you need to get it? Why can’t you let people figure it out themselves. Why do you feel the need to be the arbiter of other people’s lives.

It’s ok if you don’t get it.

Because I am a scientist - a doctor actually. And unless you can explain it
to me in a way that makes sense, I will never agree that trans women are women.
I will not blindly accept some ideology that is not rooted in science.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So if it isn’t a mental health issue, it’s considered cosmetic and therefor should not be covered by insurance

Circumcision is covered, so is breast reconstruction, so is a million other things but we cover it. Why aren’t you outraged about that?

Breast reconstruction isn’t covered for women who mistakenly believed they were trans as teens and had mastectomies.

Way to miss the point. Reconstructions aren’t medically necessary for women who had cancer either. We cover them because we know how important it is for a woman to feel like a woman.

Because there is an obvious biological component to being a woman that induces certain feelings that no biological man could ever experience or imagine.

Was that your experience as a transgender woman?

Are you saying a trans woman knows what it feels like to menstruate? To go through post pardum depression? To have a miscarriage? To have hot flashes? Please explain.

I’m saying you have no idea what it’s like to be a transgender woman.

And FYI those experiences do not define women.

And what feelings exactly do trans women have that make them women? I get that this is an incendiary question but isn’t it a logical one?

Do you ask all women that question?

There are no universal “feelings” for being a woman.

That’s because being a woman is defined by chromosomes and biology- not “feelings.”

You’re referring to sex.

Here you go:

No sweetheart I’m not. Sex, chromosomes and biology define a woman, which is simply an adult human female. There is no such thing as gender, except in the realm of languages

Are all of the bigots this ignorant?

https://www.who.int/health-topics/gender#tab=tab_1
“Gender refers to the characteristics of women, men, girls and boys that are socially constructed. This includes norms, behaviours and roles associated with being a woman, man, girl or boy, as well as relationships with each other. As a social construct, gender varies from society to society and can change over time.”

So my sincere question is - if gender is defined by norms, behaviors and roles, why does a transgender male need to have his breasts removed? They are merely a biological part of their anatomy. It seems like that makes a person transsex- they want the biological anatomy of the sex they identify with.

Anyone?

Most transgender males do not need to have their breasts removed. Most transitions are purely social. How people transition (most transitions are not medical) and their reasons for doing so are personal and each individual has their own reasons for doing so. None of us can answer as to "why" on their behalf.

Thank you for you answer Jeff. I get that it is an individual decision for everyone. I guess I am stuck on the people who have gender affirming surgery. Because it’s not really gender affirming, is is biological sex affirming. If people want to say that sex and gender are two different things, this muddies the water for me. I just don’t get it.

Why do you need to get it? Why can’t you let people figure it out themselves. Why do you feel the need to be the arbiter of other people’s lives.

It’s ok if you don’t get it.

Because I am a scientist - a doctor actually. And unless you can explain it
to me in a way that makes sense, I will never agree that trans women are women.
I will not blindly accept some ideology that is not rooted in science.

No one needs you to accept it. The world will go on without you.

“Ideology”? Your language is revealing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The reason that detransitioners are embraced solely by awful republicans with ulterior motives is because everyone else tries to silence them.

What other groups support them? Who else is allowing them share their stories? You see it here in this thread that parents who are trying to stand up for themselves against unethical doctors are called liars. They’re shunned.

This is why I say trans activists should embrace them. If your goal is to ensure proper trans care, those detransitioners who are treated poorly by unethical doctors or whomever have an important voice, too.

Yes, I spend time in r/detrans. I tell you that only to indicate that these people are real with real stories and real pain and real voices.

They have nowhere to go. They were once trans. They matter, too.

How about those who detransition, but then regret it and re-transition? Do they have stories to tell and do you think their voices are important for the debate? Do you think they should be promoted similarly?

YES, of course they have voices, too. Of course!

I think everyone involved should have their voices heard. It’s odd that you would think I’d want to silence any voices. I never indicated that I support silencing contrary opinions….like many activists do.

When you take up all of the oxygen about detransitioners then you are effectively silencing the vast majority of transgender people.

Interesting. Do you also see how trans women take up all the oxygen with respect to women’s rights?

No. I see RWNJs using transgenderism as a decoy to take away women’s rights. Women should all be working together to lift ALL of us up, not tearing each other down.

[Anonymous]

Can’t believe this thread has not been shut down yet.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So if it isn’t a mental health issue, it’s considered cosmetic and therefor should not be covered by insurance

Circumcision is covered, so is breast reconstruction, so is a million other things but we cover it. Why aren’t you outraged about that?

Breast reconstruction isn’t covered for women who mistakenly believed they were trans as teens and had mastectomies.

Way to miss the point. Reconstructions aren’t medically necessary for women who had cancer either. We cover them because we know how important it is for a woman to feel like a woman.

Because there is an obvious biological component to being a woman that induces certain feelings that no biological man could ever experience or imagine.

Was that your experience as a transgender woman?

Are you saying a trans woman knows what it feels like to menstruate? To go through post pardum depression? To have a miscarriage? To have hot flashes? Please explain.

I’m saying you have no idea what it’s like to be a transgender woman.

And FYI those experiences do not define women.

And what feelings exactly do trans women have that make them women? I get that this is an incendiary question but isn’t it a logical one?

Do you ask all women that question?

There are no universal “feelings” for being a woman.

That’s because being a woman is defined by chromosomes and biology- not “feelings.”

You’re referring to sex.

Here you go:

No sweetheart I’m not. Sex, chromosomes and biology define a woman, which is simply an adult human female. There is no such thing as gender, except in the realm of languages

Are all of the bigots this ignorant?

https://www.who.int/health-topics/gender#tab=tab_1
“Gender refers to the characteristics of women, men, girls and boys that are socially constructed. This includes norms, behaviours and roles associated with being a woman, man, girl or boy, as well as relationships with each other. As a social construct, gender varies from society to society and can change over time.”

So my sincere question is - if gender is defined by norms, behaviors and roles, why does a transgender male need to have his breasts removed? They are merely a biological part of their anatomy. It seems like that makes a person transsex- they want the biological anatomy of the sex they identify with.

Anyone?

Most transgender males do not need to have their breasts removed. Most transitions are purely social. How people transition (most transitions are not medical) and their reasons for doing so are personal and each individual has their own reasons for doing so. None of us can answer as to "why" on their behalf.

Thank you for you answer Jeff. I get that it is an individual decision for everyone. I guess I am stuck on the people who have gender affirming surgery. Because it’s not really gender affirming, is is biological sex affirming. If people want to say that sex and gender are two different things, this muddies the water for me. I just don’t get it.

Why do you need to get it? Why can’t you let people figure it out themselves. Why do you feel the need to be the arbiter of other people’s lives.

It’s ok if you don’t get it.

Because I am a scientist - a doctor actually. And unless you can explain it
to me in a way that makes sense, I will never agree that trans women are women.
I will not blindly accept some ideology that is not rooted in science.

No one needs you to accept it. The world will go on without you.

“Ideology”? Your language is revealing.

“Trans women are women” is absolutely an ideology. There is no question about this.

Much of the population doesn’t accept it. That should tell you something.

That being said, I fully accept the existence of trans people and their basic rights in society (I am the psych hospital PP). I have many trans patients. They are treated with respect and compassion 100%. So please don’t tell me I’m a transphobe. I am not. But I will not fall in lockstep with the whole “trans women are women” mantra. They are transwomen. That’s why they have a separate identifier. They are males (with the appropriate chromosomes and genitalia) who identify as women.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So if it isn’t a mental health issue, it’s considered cosmetic and therefor should not be covered by insurance

Circumcision is covered, so is breast reconstruction, so is a million other things but we cover it. Why aren’t you outraged about that?

Breast reconstruction isn’t covered for women who mistakenly believed they were trans as teens and had mastectomies.

Way to miss the point. Reconstructions aren’t medically necessary for women who had cancer either. We cover them because we know how important it is for a woman to feel like a woman.

Because there is an obvious biological component to being a woman that induces certain feelings that no biological man could ever experience or imagine.

Was that your experience as a transgender woman?

Are you saying a trans woman knows what it feels like to menstruate? To go through post pardum depression? To have a miscarriage? To have hot flashes? Please explain.

I’m saying you have no idea what it’s like to be a transgender woman.

And FYI those experiences do not define women.

And what feelings exactly do trans women have that make them women? I get that this is an incendiary question but isn’t it a logical one?

Do you ask all women that question?

There are no universal “feelings” for being a woman.

That’s because being a woman is defined by chromosomes and biology- not “feelings.”

You’re referring to sex.

Here you go:

No sweetheart I’m not. Sex, chromosomes and biology define a woman, which is simply an adult human female. There is no such thing as gender, except in the realm of languages

Are all of the bigots this ignorant?

https://www.who.int/health-topics/gender#tab=tab_1
“Gender refers to the characteristics of women, men, girls and boys that are socially constructed. This includes norms, behaviours and roles associated with being a woman, man, girl or boy, as well as relationships with each other. As a social construct, gender varies from society to society and can change over time.”

So my sincere question is - if gender is defined by norms, behaviors and roles, why does a transgender male need to have his breasts removed? They are merely a biological part of their anatomy. It seems like that makes a person transsex- they want the biological anatomy of the sex they identify with.

Anyone?

Most transgender males do not need to have their breasts removed. Most transitions are purely social. How people transition (most transitions are not medical) and their reasons for doing so are personal and each individual has their own reasons for doing so. None of us can answer as to "why" on their behalf.

Thank you for you answer Jeff. I get that it is an individual decision for everyone. I guess I am stuck on the people who have gender affirming surgery. Because it’s not really gender affirming, is is biological sex affirming. If people want to say that sex and gender are two different things, this muddies the water for me. I just don’t get it.

Why do you need to get it? Why can’t you let people figure it out themselves. Why do you feel the need to be the arbiter of other people’s lives.

It’s ok if you don’t get it.

Because I am a scientist - a doctor actually. And unless you can explain it
to me in a way that makes sense, I will never agree that trans women are women.
I will not blindly accept some ideology that is not rooted in science.

No one needs you to accept it. The world will go on without you.

“Ideology”? Your language is revealing.

“Trans women are women” is absolutely an ideology. There is no question about this.

Much of the population doesn’t accept it. That should tell you something.

That being said, I fully accept the existence of trans people and their basic rights in society (I am the psych hospital PP). I have many trans patients. They are treated with respect and compassion 100%. So please don’t tell me I’m a transphobe. I am not. But I will not fall in lockstep with the whole “trans women are women” mantra. They are transwomen. That’s why they have a separate identifier. They are males (with the appropriate chromosomes and genitalia) who identify as women.

Because you’re too rigid to be inclusive?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So if it isn’t a mental health issue, it’s considered cosmetic and therefor should not be covered by insurance

Circumcision is covered, so is breast reconstruction, so is a million other things but we cover it. Why aren’t you outraged about that?

Breast reconstruction isn’t covered for women who mistakenly believed they were trans as teens and had mastectomies.

Way to miss the point. Reconstructions aren’t medically necessary for women who had cancer either. We cover them because we know how important it is for a woman to feel like a woman.

Because there is an obvious biological component to being a woman that induces certain feelings that no biological man could ever experience or imagine.

Was that your experience as a transgender woman?

Are you saying a trans woman knows what it feels like to menstruate? To go through post pardum depression? To have a miscarriage? To have hot flashes? Please explain.

I’m saying you have no idea what it’s like to be a transgender woman.

And FYI those experiences do not define women.

And what feelings exactly do trans women have that make them women? I get that this is an incendiary question but isn’t it a logical one?

Do you ask all women that question?

There are no universal “feelings” for being a woman.

That’s because being a woman is defined by chromosomes and biology- not “feelings.”

You’re referring to sex.

Here you go:

No sweetheart I’m not. Sex, chromosomes and biology define a woman, which is simply an adult human female. There is no such thing as gender, except in the realm of languages

Are all of the bigots this ignorant?

https://www.who.int/health-topics/gender#tab=tab_1
“Gender refers to the characteristics of women, men, girls and boys that are socially constructed. This includes norms, behaviours and roles associated with being a woman, man, girl or boy, as well as relationships with each other. As a social construct, gender varies from society to society and can change over time.”

So my sincere question is - if gender is defined by norms, behaviors and roles, why does a transgender male need to have his breasts removed? They are merely a biological part of their anatomy. It seems like that makes a person transsex- they want the biological anatomy of the sex they identify with.

Anyone?

Most transgender males do not need to have their breasts removed. Most transitions are purely social. How people transition (most transitions are not medical) and their reasons for doing so are personal and each individual has their own reasons for doing so. None of us can answer as to "why" on their behalf.

Thank you for you answer Jeff. I get that it is an individual decision for everyone. I guess I am stuck on the people who have gender affirming surgery. Because it’s not really gender affirming, is is biological sex affirming. If people want to say that sex and gender are two different things, this muddies the water for me. I just don’t get it.

Why do you need to get it? Why can’t you let people figure it out themselves. Why do you feel the need to be the arbiter of other people’s lives.

It’s ok if you don’t get it.

Because I am a scientist - a doctor actually. And unless you can explain it
to me in a way that makes sense, I will never agree that trans women are women.
I will not blindly accept some ideology that is not rooted in science.

No one needs you to accept it. The world will go on without you.

“Ideology”? Your language is revealing.

“Trans women are women” is absolutely an ideology. There is no question about this.

Much of the population doesn’t accept it. That should tell you something.

That being said, I fully accept the existence of trans people and their basic rights in society (I am the psych hospital PP). I have many trans patients. They are treated with respect and compassion 100%. So please don’t tell me I’m a transphobe. I am not. But I will not fall in lockstep with the whole “trans women are women” mantra. They are transwomen. That’s why they have a separate identifier. They are males (with the appropriate chromosomes and genitalia) who identify as women.

Because you’re too rigid to be inclusive?

To be inclusive in the category of women? Yes, I am.

Not everyone gets to be included in everything because they want to be. I can be compassionate, kind and respectful (I am to my trans patients every day) - I don’t need to believe that transwomen are women in order to do that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So if it isn’t a mental health issue, it’s considered cosmetic and therefor should not be covered by insurance

Circumcision is covered, so is breast reconstruction, so is a million other things but we cover it. Why aren’t you outraged about that?

Breast reconstruction isn’t covered for women who mistakenly believed they were trans as teens and had mastectomies.

Way to miss the point. Reconstructions aren’t medically necessary for women who had cancer either. We cover them because we know how important it is for a woman to feel like a woman.

Because there is an obvious biological component to being a woman that induces certain feelings that no biological man could ever experience or imagine.

Was that your experience as a transgender woman?

Are you saying a trans woman knows what it feels like to menstruate? To go through post pardum depression? To have a miscarriage? To have hot flashes? Please explain.

I’m saying you have no idea what it’s like to be a transgender woman.

And FYI those experiences do not define women.

And what feelings exactly do trans women have that make them women? I get that this is an incendiary question but isn’t it a logical one?

Do you ask all women that question?

There are no universal “feelings” for being a woman.

That’s because being a woman is defined by chromosomes and biology- not “feelings.”

You’re referring to sex.

Here you go:

No sweetheart I’m not. Sex, chromosomes and biology define a woman, which is simply an adult human female. There is no such thing as gender, except in the realm of languages

Are all of the bigots this ignorant?

https://www.who.int/health-topics/gender#tab=tab_1
“Gender refers to the characteristics of women, men, girls and boys that are socially constructed. This includes norms, behaviours and roles associated with being a woman, man, girl or boy, as well as relationships with each other. As a social construct, gender varies from society to society and can change over time.”

So my sincere question is - if gender is defined by norms, behaviors and roles, why does a transgender male need to have his breasts removed? They are merely a biological part of their anatomy. It seems like that makes a person transsex- they want the biological anatomy of the sex they identify with.

Anyone?

Most transgender males do not need to have their breasts removed. Most transitions are purely social. How people transition (most transitions are not medical) and their reasons for doing so are personal and each individual has their own reasons for doing so. None of us can answer as to "why" on their behalf.

Thank you for you answer Jeff. I get that it is an individual decision for everyone. I guess I am stuck on the people who have gender affirming surgery. Because it’s not really gender affirming, is is biological sex affirming. If people want to say that sex and gender are two different things, this muddies the water for me. I just don’t get it.

Why do you need to get it? Why can’t you let people figure it out themselves. Why do you feel the need to be the arbiter of other people’s lives.

It’s ok if you don’t get it.

Because I am a scientist - a doctor actually. And unless you can explain it
to me in a way that makes sense, I will never agree that trans women are women.
I will not blindly accept some ideology that is not rooted in science.

No one needs you to accept it. The world will go on without you.

“Ideology”? Your language is revealing.

“Trans women are women” is absolutely an ideology. There is no question about this.

Much of the population doesn’t accept it. That should tell you something.

That being said, I fully accept the existence of trans people and their basic rights in society (I am the psych hospital PP). I have many trans patients. They are treated with respect and compassion 100%. So please don’t tell me I’m a transphobe. I am not. But I will not fall in lockstep with the whole “trans women are women” mantra. They are transwomen. That’s why they have a separate identifier. They are males (with the appropriate chromosomes and genitalia) who identify as women.

Because you’re too rigid to be inclusive?

To be inclusive in the category of women? Yes, I am.

Not everyone gets to be included in everything because they want to be. I can be compassionate, kind and respectful (I am to my trans patients every day) - I don’t need to believe that transwomen are women in order to do that.

What do you mean by "believe that transwomen are women"?

Was this you?
http://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/30/1038810.page#22053266

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So if it isn’t a mental health issue, it’s considered cosmetic and therefor should not be covered by insurance

Circumcision is covered, so is breast reconstruction, so is a million other things but we cover it. Why aren’t you outraged about that?

Breast reconstruction isn’t covered for women who mistakenly believed they were trans as teens and had mastectomies.

Way to miss the point. Reconstructions aren’t medically necessary for women who had cancer either. We cover them because we know how important it is for a woman to feel like a woman.

Because there is an obvious biological component to being a woman that induces certain feelings that no biological man could ever experience or imagine.

Was that your experience as a transgender woman?

Are you saying a trans woman knows what it feels like to menstruate? To go through post pardum depression? To have a miscarriage? To have hot flashes? Please explain.

I’m saying you have no idea what it’s like to be a transgender woman.

And FYI those experiences do not define women.

And what feelings exactly do trans women have that make them women? I get that this is an incendiary question but isn’t it a logical one?

Do you ask all women that question?

There are no universal “feelings” for being a woman.

That’s because being a woman is defined by chromosomes and biology- not “feelings.”

You’re referring to sex.

Here you go:

No sweetheart I’m not. Sex, chromosomes and biology define a woman, which is simply an adult human female. There is no such thing as gender, except in the realm of languages

Are all of the bigots this ignorant?

https://www.who.int/health-topics/gender#tab=tab_1
“Gender refers to the characteristics of women, men, girls and boys that are socially constructed. This includes norms, behaviours and roles associated with being a woman, man, girl or boy, as well as relationships with each other. As a social construct, gender varies from society to society and can change over time.”

So my sincere question is - if gender is defined by norms, behaviors and roles, why does a transgender male need to have his breasts removed? They are merely a biological part of their anatomy. It seems like that makes a person transsex- they want the biological anatomy of the sex they identify with.

Anyone?

Most transgender males do not need to have their breasts removed. Most transitions are purely social. How people transition (most transitions are not medical) and their reasons for doing so are personal and each individual has their own reasons for doing so. None of us can answer as to "why" on their behalf.

Thank you for you answer Jeff. I get that it is an individual decision for everyone. I guess I am stuck on the people who have gender affirming surgery. Because it’s not really gender affirming, is is biological sex affirming. If people want to say that sex and gender are two different things, this muddies the water for me. I just don’t get it.

Why do you need to get it? Why can’t you let people figure it out themselves. Why do you feel the need to be the arbiter of other people’s lives.

It’s ok if you don’t get it.

Because I am a scientist - a doctor actually. And unless you can explain it
to me in a way that makes sense, I will never agree that trans women are women.
I will not blindly accept some ideology that is not rooted in science.

No one needs you to accept it. The world will go on without you.

“Ideology”? Your language is revealing.

“Trans women are women” is absolutely an ideology. There is no question about this.

Much of the population doesn’t accept it. That should tell you something.

That being said, I fully accept the existence of trans people and their basic rights in society (I am the psych hospital PP). I have many trans patients. They are treated with respect and compassion 100%. So please don’t tell me I’m a transphobe. I am not. But I will not fall in lockstep with the whole “trans women are women” mantra. They are transwomen. That’s why they have a separate identifier. They are males (with the appropriate chromosomes and genitalia) who identify as women.

Because you’re too rigid to be inclusive?

He/she sounds too smart to bow to the mob. Women are women. Transwomen are transwomen.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Increasingly, Europeans question doing the surgery to *children*.

Western European countries have recently led the way in scaling back and eliminating gender medicine treatments, not just surgeries, for minors. Sweden ended the use of puberty blockers and cross-sex hormones for anyone under 18 (outside of clinical trials and those who had already started treatments). Tavistock in Britain closed after the famous trial, and age limits have been raised for medical gender treatments there. There's not enough data to conclude that the long term health risks are worth any potential therapeutic benefits.

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So if it isn’t a mental health issue, it’s considered cosmetic and therefor should not be covered by insurance

Circumcision is covered, so is breast reconstruction, so is a million other things but we cover it. Why aren’t you outraged about that?

Breast reconstruction isn’t covered for women who mistakenly believed they were trans as teens and had mastectomies.

Way to miss the point. Reconstructions aren’t medically necessary for women who had cancer either. We cover them because we know how important it is for a woman to feel like a woman.

Because there is an obvious biological component to being a woman that induces certain feelings that no biological man could ever experience or imagine.

Was that your experience as a transgender woman?

Are you saying a trans woman knows what it feels like to menstruate? To go through post pardum depression? To have a miscarriage? To have hot flashes? Please explain.

I’m saying you have no idea what it’s like to be a transgender woman.

And FYI those experiences do not define women.

And what feelings exactly do trans women have that make them women? I get that this is an incendiary question but isn’t it a logical one?

Do you ask all women that question?

There are no universal “feelings” for being a woman.

That’s because being a woman is defined by chromosomes and biology- not “feelings.”

You’re referring to sex.

Here you go:

No sweetheart I’m not. Sex, chromosomes and biology define a woman, which is simply an adult human female. There is no such thing as gender, except in the realm of languages

Are all of the bigots this ignorant?

https://www.who.int/health-topics/gender#tab=tab_1
“Gender refers to the characteristics of women, men, girls and boys that are socially constructed. This includes norms, behaviours and roles associated with being a woman, man, girl or boy, as well as relationships with each other. As a social construct, gender varies from society to society and can change over time.”

I know that’s what it says I’m your women’s gender studies book. But that is an incorrect, made up definition

That link is from the World Health Organization, I’d say that they have more credibility than an anonymous bigot.

Of course you would. It still means nothing.

The original poster of this thread asked why we can't have discussions on topics such as this. Posters like you are the reason why. There is nothing to discuss with you. There is no evidence that can change your mind. Therefore, I would kindly ask that you withdraw from this discussion so that those with less closed minds can continue.

Hilarious that you are talking about “evidence,” given that there is virtually none to prove a single point you are attempting to make

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So if it isn’t a mental health issue, it’s considered cosmetic and therefor should not be covered by insurance

Circumcision is covered, so is breast reconstruction, so is a million other things but we cover it. Why aren’t you outraged about that?

Breast reconstruction isn’t covered for women who mistakenly believed they were trans as teens and had mastectomies.

Way to miss the point. Reconstructions aren’t medically necessary for women who had cancer either. We cover them because we know how important it is for a woman to feel like a woman.

Because there is an obvious biological component to being a woman that induces certain feelings that no biological man could ever experience or imagine.

Was that your experience as a transgender woman?

Are you saying a trans woman knows what it feels like to menstruate? To go through post pardum depression? To have a miscarriage? To have hot flashes? Please explain.

I’m saying you have no idea what it’s like to be a transgender woman.

And FYI those experiences do not define women.

And what feelings exactly do trans women have that make them women? I get that this is an incendiary question but isn’t it a logical one?

Do you ask all women that question?

There are no universal “feelings” for being a woman.

That’s because being a woman is defined by chromosomes and biology- not “feelings.”

You’re referring to sex.

Here you go:

No sweetheart I’m not. Sex, chromosomes and biology define a woman, which is simply an adult human female. There is no such thing as gender, except in the realm of languages

Are all of the bigots this ignorant?

https://www.who.int/health-topics/gender#tab=tab_1
“Gender refers to the characteristics of women, men, girls and boys that are socially constructed. This includes norms, behaviours and roles associated with being a woman, man, girl or boy, as well as relationships with each other. As a social construct, gender varies from society to society and can change over time.”

I know that’s what it says I’m your women’s gender studies book. But that is an incorrect, made up definition

That link is from the World Health Organization, I’d say that they have more credibility than an anonymous bigot.

Of course you would. It still means nothing.

The original poster of this thread asked why we can't have discussions on topics such as this. Posters like you are the reason why. There is nothing to discuss with you. There is no evidence that can change your mind. Therefore, I would kindly ask that you withdraw from this discussion so that those with less closed minds can continue.

Hilarious that you are talking about “evidence,” given that there is virtually none to prove a single point you are attempting to make

Obviously there is no reason to discuss anything with anyone as ignorant as you. So, please find another thread and don't waste anymore of our time here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So if it isn’t a mental health issue, it’s considered cosmetic and therefor should not be covered by insurance

Circumcision is covered, so is breast reconstruction, so is a million other things but we cover it. Why aren’t you outraged about that?

Breast reconstruction isn’t covered for women who mistakenly believed they were trans as teens and had mastectomies.

Way to miss the point. Reconstructions aren’t medically necessary for women who had cancer either. We cover them because we know how important it is for a woman to feel like a woman.

Because there is an obvious biological component to being a woman that induces certain feelings that no biological man could ever experience or imagine.

Was that your experience as a transgender woman?

Are you saying a trans woman knows what it feels like to menstruate? To go through post pardum depression? To have a miscarriage? To have hot flashes? Please explain.

I’m saying you have no idea what it’s like to be a transgender woman.

And FYI those experiences do not define women.

And what feelings exactly do trans women have that make them women? I get that this is an incendiary question but isn’t it a logical one?

Do you ask all women that question?

There are no universal “feelings” for being a woman.

That’s because being a woman is defined by chromosomes and biology- not “feelings.”

You’re referring to sex.

Here you go:

No sweetheart I’m not. Sex, chromosomes and biology define a woman, which is simply an adult human female. There is no such thing as gender, except in the realm of languages

Are all of the bigots this ignorant?

https://www.who.int/health-topics/gender#tab=tab_1
“Gender refers to the characteristics of women, men, girls and boys that are socially constructed. This includes norms, behaviours and roles associated with being a woman, man, girl or boy, as well as relationships with each other. As a social construct, gender varies from society to society and can change over time.”

So my sincere question is - if gender is defined by norms, behaviors and roles, why does a transgender male need to have his breasts removed? They are merely a biological part of their anatomy. It seems like that makes a person transsex- they want the biological anatomy of the sex they identify with.

Anyone?

Most transgender males do not need to have their breasts removed. Most transitions are purely social. How people transition (most transitions are not medical) and their reasons for doing so are personal and each individual has their own reasons for doing so. None of us can answer as to "why" on their behalf.

Thank you for you answer Jeff. I get that it is an individual decision for everyone. I guess I am stuck on the people who have gender affirming surgery. Because it’s not really gender affirming, is is biological sex affirming. If people want to say that sex and gender are two different things, this muddies the water for me. I just don’t get it.

Why do you need to get it? Why can’t you let people figure it out themselves. Why do you feel the need to be the arbiter of other people’s lives.

It’s ok if you don’t get it.

Because I am a scientist - a doctor actually. And unless you can explain it
to me in a way that makes sense, I will never agree that trans women are women.
I will not blindly accept some ideology that is not rooted in science.

No one needs you to accept it. The world will go on without you.

“Ideology”? Your language is revealing.

“Trans women are women” is absolutely an ideology. There is no question about this.

Much of the population doesn’t accept it. That should tell you something.

That being said, I fully accept the existence of trans people and their basic rights in society (I am the psych hospital PP). I have many trans patients. They are treated with respect and compassion 100%. So please don’t tell me I’m a transphobe. I am not. But I will not fall in lockstep with the whole “trans women are women” mantra. They are transwomen. That’s why they have a separate identifier. They are males (with the appropriate chromosomes and genitalia) who identify as women.

Because you’re too rigid to be inclusive?

To be inclusive in the category of women? Yes, I am.

Not everyone gets to be included in everything because they want to be. I can be compassionate, kind and respectful (I am to my trans patients every day) - I don’t need to believe that transwomen are women in order to do that.

What do you mean by "believe that transwomen are women"?

Was this you?
http://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/30/1038810.page#22053266

That post is from over a year ago. Is this Jeff posting an anonymously? Otherwise how on earth did you find that?

And since that post is so old I have absolutely no idea if that was me. But that does sound like something I would say.

And I’m not sure what question you are asking. I think “I don’t believe transwomen are women” is a pretty obvious statement.