Marriage is a horrible deal for women

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm sure this point has been made, but modern marriage is not necessarily a bad deal for women.

Modern motherhood is an absolute nightmare for women and somehow marriage makes it worse. The expectations for mothers have reached this critical point where it is now pretty much impossible to meet parenting standards unless you are wealthy enough to outsource significant parts of it to well-paid professionals, and even then it's hard.

We've created this fiction where parental duties are shared equitably but (1) they are definitely not, women are still doing the vast majority of childcare as well as household tasks in families, and (2) we've actually increased the volume of parental duties a ton in the last 30 years or so to the point where even if a man does half of what his mom did when he was a child, it will not be half of what is actually expected at this point.

We also have a huge crisis in childcare, and don't forget the similar crises brewing in elder care as Boomers age.

This is why the birth rate among non-immigrant populations is plummeting. What is expected is simply not possible, and women are increasingly tired of being the scapegoats for all of this. When women become parents these days it's just because they really, really want to be, which only makes it more acutely miserable when you're told repeatedly who crap you are at it even while breaking your back trying to do it well.

You're really describing one particular way to parent, which only exists in a small segment of the population. And even then, I assure you, tons of kids never do travel sports or play an instrument beyond what the school does, make ok grades and lead ok lives. You don't have to take on what you don't want.

Actually, the pressures of intensive parenting are documented up and down the income scale and are seen as ideal by most survey respondents.

I can’t send my five year old out to play as there isn’t anyone around to play with.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Women make more hours to make the same salaries as men. With same skill set. This is already proved to be true in the US and confirmed by multiple research. Thus, if she’s earning less plus also has to pull off all the household work she ends up doing 2 work shifts vs husband . Until men and women are absolutely equalized on corporate ladder there may be no equality in marriage.

Not sure how it’s even hard to understand!

Precisely.

The people who don't understand are SAHMs who have no idea how hard it is to work AND be the primary parent. They have a cushy existence compared to most WOHMs.

I’m a single dad who works and is the primary parent and the alleged difficulty of this is vastly exaggerated.

Because you probably suck as a dad compared to what single/working moms are doing. Sorry.

Signed,

SAHM with a cushy existence

I dated single dads with 2-3 kids who are actual, involved parents. They literally never have time for themselves or serious dating !

Right. They were better dads than the PP who thinks that moms are vastly exaggerating how hard it is to work full-time and be the primary parent.

Or maybe he's just a harder worker and not as used to complaining. Or maybe he doesn't see parenting as a hassle. Or maybe he's more efficient at accomplishing what needs to be done at work and home. Or maybe he doesn't spend a lot of time shopping for leggings and watching Tik Tok dances while "working" at his cushy middle management fed job.

Hmm, no, I think it's that he isn't as good of a dad as women who report their experience with the well-documented phenomenon of the difficulties of being a primary parent while working full-time.

“Well documented” = women who complained a lot on DCUM lol.

Google is free, you know.

https://fortune.com/2021/06/25/women-men-unpaid-child-care-pandemic-gender-equality-workforce/
https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/10/01/women-more-than-men-adjust-their-careers-for-family-life/

https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/women-do-extra-hour-a-day-of-chores-childcare-than-men-20221007-p5bnzv.html

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/wellbeing/articles/menenjoyfivehoursmoreleisuretimeperweekthanwomen/2018-01-09

Seriously I don’t know what kind of mental gymnastics people are doing that leads them to believe that there is not an overall gender imbalance in domestic labor in dual-income households.

Sounds like you married a schlep.

Nice attempt at deflection. Try again, actually addressing what was posted this time. Warning:Reading will be involved.

Nobody wants to read your cherry picked articles.

[Anonymous]

New poster here. On paper, my husband is great. However, we are different people - I am Type A who gets stuff done and a perfectionist; he is chill, not much of an achiever and an introvert. I resent him for being a disappointment: career/money-wise, home involvement, emotional support etc. If I could go back, I would either marry rich (I am good looking, educated and was very desirable back in the day), or I wouldn’t marry at all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:New poster here. On paper, my husband is great. However, we are different people - I am Type A who gets stuff done and a perfectionist; he is chill, not much of an achiever and an introvert. I resent him for being a disappointment: career/money-wise, home involvement, emotional support etc. If I could go back, I would either marry rich (I am good looking, educated and was very desirable back in the day), or I wouldn’t marry at all.

That's OK - he resents you too for being a henpecking nag.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous[b wrote:]Unless the husband is rich.[/b]

Women do most of the unpaid and unnoticed domestic labor in the home. They use their body to create babies and then do most of the childcare.

If the husband isn’t rich, what does he bring to the table?

I am going to push back on that. If he was rich and beat you would that still be a good deal? For me, I found my life partner and it is worth it. For many women this is true though

Some of the best husbands and dads I know are also very well off. They are just intelligent, high functioning individuals who are good at a lot of things, including their career and their home life too.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Women make more hours to make the same salaries as men. With same skill set. This is already proved to be true in the US and confirmed by multiple research. Thus, if she’s earning less plus also has to pull off all the household work she ends up doing 2 work shifts vs husband . Until men and women are absolutely equalized on corporate ladder there may be no equality in marriage.

Not sure how it’s even hard to understand!

Precisely.

The people who don't understand are SAHMs who have no idea how hard it is to work AND be the primary parent. They have a cushy existence compared to most WOHMs.

I’m a single dad who works and is the primary parent and the alleged difficulty of this is vastly exaggerated.

Because you probably suck as a dad compared to what single/working moms are doing. Sorry.

Signed,

SAHM with a cushy existence

I dated single dads with 2-3 kids who are actual, involved parents. They literally never have time for themselves or serious dating !

Right. They were better dads than the PP who thinks that moms are vastly exaggerating how hard it is to work full-time and be the primary parent.

Or maybe he's just a harder worker and not as used to complaining. Or maybe he doesn't see parenting as a hassle. Or maybe he's more efficient at accomplishing what needs to be done at work and home. Or maybe he doesn't spend a lot of time shopping for leggings and watching Tik Tok dances while "working" at his cushy middle management fed job.

Hmm, no, I think it's that he isn't as good of a dad as women who report their experience with the well-documented phenomenon of the difficulties of being a primary parent while working full-time.

“Well documented” = women who complained a lot on DCUM lol.

Google is free, you know.

https://fortune.com/2021/06/25/women-men-unpaid-child-care-pandemic-gender-equality-workforce/
https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/10/01/women-more-than-men-adjust-their-careers-for-family-life/

https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/women-do-extra-hour-a-day-of-chores-childcare-than-men-20221007-p5bnzv.html

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/wellbeing/articles/menenjoyfivehoursmoreleisuretimeperweekthanwomen/2018-01-09

Seriously I don’t know what kind of mental gymnastics people are doing that leads them to believe that there is not an overall gender imbalance in domestic labor in dual-income households.

I love that you obviously Googled for the result you wanted but were too lazy to read the articles.

This one you posted -- https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/women-do-extra-hour-a-day-of-chores-childcare-than-men-20221007-p5bnzv.html -- actually says that while women work more hours in the house, men work more outside of the house. This is the issue. Women don't see all the work that men are doing outside of the house and thus see the imbalance in the house as a sign that the division of labor is unfair overall, and assume that the reason that men make more money must be discrimination, rather than doing more work.

The Pew study you linked also says that men spend more time in paid work, and the Pew research also says that married men with children work more hours overall than married women with children.

And men on average make more money than women, so disproportionately contribute to family finances than women. Yet I love that the irrational conclusion you draw from these studies is that married women get the short end of the stick.

1. Where does the pew research say that married men work more overall? I must have missed that. Regardless, look at the amount of measure time dads v moms have. Moms have less leisure time on average.

2. Just because moms work less outside the home doesn’t mean that they were fewer hours total. If a dad works 50 hours and does 5 hours at home and a mom works 40 hours and does 20 hours at home, the mom is working more hours overall.

3. Why is it okay that women are the ones who have to pull back in their careers? Why is that not done equally? And why does doing so result in career interruptions for women more than it does for men? And you can’t say that it’s because of biology because the biology of Americans isn’t different than that of other countries and their stats are different.

4. Do you think the reason women are opting out of marriage more and more is because they too are bad at looking at a marriage and seeing who benefits and who doesn’t?

The solid majority of women initiate divorce, and it’s not because they are worse than men at gauging whether or not a marriage is equitable. It’s because they are fed up with crap.

Why do women have to pull back in their careers more than men? Just refer to all the DCUM posts from women who are only interested in a partner who earns at least as much as them (and note men make no such posts). Women have told men, "We don't value you unless you are a financial success." Sorry not sorry but that means that your career will have to take a backseat more often than not.

And why do women initiate 70-80% of divorces? You're right - that one is confusing, especially when you look at all the DCUM posts from late 30s women desperate to find a husband. They're desperate to build a career and/or have fun, then desperate to marry, and then desperate to divorce a decade later. It's almost as if women are fickle, mercurial and not generally grounded in a sense of reality.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Women make more hours to make the same salaries as men. With same skill set. This is already proved to be true in the US and confirmed by multiple research. Thus, if she’s earning less plus also has to pull off all the household work she ends up doing 2 work shifts vs husband . Until men and women are absolutely equalized on corporate ladder there may be no equality in marriage.

Not sure how it’s even hard to understand!

Precisely.

The people who don't understand are SAHMs who have no idea how hard it is to work AND be the primary parent. They have a cushy existence compared to most WOHMs.

I’m a single dad who works and is the primary parent and the alleged difficulty of this is vastly exaggerated.

Because you probably suck as a dad compared to what single/working moms are doing. Sorry.

Signed,

SAHM with a cushy existence

I dated single dads with 2-3 kids who are actual, involved parents. They literally never have time for themselves or serious dating !

Right. They were better dads than the PP who thinks that moms are vastly exaggerating how hard it is to work full-time and be the primary parent.

Or maybe he's just a harder worker and not as used to complaining. Or maybe he doesn't see parenting as a hassle. Or maybe he's more efficient at accomplishing what needs to be done at work and home. Or maybe he doesn't spend a lot of time shopping for leggings and watching Tik Tok dances while "working" at his cushy middle management fed job.

Hmm, no, I think it's that he isn't as good of a dad as women who report their experience with the well-documented phenomenon of the difficulties of being a primary parent while working full-time.

“Well documented” = women who complained a lot on DCUM lol.

Google is free, you know.

https://fortune.com/2021/06/25/women-men-unpaid-child-care-pandemic-gender-equality-workforce/
https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/10/01/women-more-than-men-adjust-their-careers-for-family-life/

https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/women-do-extra-hour-a-day-of-chores-childcare-than-men-20221007-p5bnzv.html

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/wellbeing/articles/menenjoyfivehoursmoreleisuretimeperweekthanwomen/2018-01-09

Seriously I don’t know what kind of mental gymnastics people are doing that leads them to believe that there is not an overall gender imbalance in domestic labor in dual-income households.

I love that you obviously Googled for the result you wanted but were too lazy to read the articles.

This one you posted -- https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/women-do-extra-hour-a-day-of-chores-childcare-than-men-20221007-p5bnzv.html -- actually says that while women work more hours in the house, men work more outside of the house. This is the issue. Women don't see all the work that men are doing outside of the house and thus see the imbalance in the house as a sign that the division of labor is unfair overall, and assume that the reason that men make more money must be discrimination, rather than doing more work.

The Pew study you linked also says that men spend more time in paid work, and the Pew research also says that married men with children work more hours overall than married women with children.

And men on average make more money than women, so disproportionately contribute to family finances than women. Yet I love that the irrational conclusion you draw from these studies is that married women get the short end of the stick.

1. Where does the pew research say that married men work more overall? I must have missed that. Regardless, look at the amount of measure time dads v moms have. Moms have less leisure time on average.

2. Just because moms work less outside the home doesn’t mean that they were fewer hours total. If a dad works 50 hours and does 5 hours at home and a mom works 40 hours and does 20 hours at home, the mom is working more hours overall.

3. Why is it okay that women are the ones who have to pull back in their careers? Why is that not done equally? And why does doing so result in career interruptions for women more than it does for men? And you can’t say that it’s because of biology because the biology of Americans isn’t different than that of other countries and their stats are different.

4. Do you think the reason women are opting out of marriage more and more is because they too are bad at looking at a marriage and seeing who benefits and who doesn’t?

The solid majority of women initiate divorce, and it’s not because they are worse than men at gauging whether or not a marriage is equitable. It’s because they are fed up with crap.

Why do women have to pull back in their careers more than men? Just refer to all the DCUM posts from women who are only interested in a partner who earns at least as much as them (and note men make no such posts). Women have told men, "We don't value you unless you are a financial success." Sorry not sorry but that means that your career will have to take a backseat more often than not.

And why do women initiate 70-80% of divorces? You're right - that one is confusing, especially when you look at all the DCUM posts from late 30s women desperate to find a husband. They're desperate to build a career and/or have fun, then desperate to marry, and then desperate to divorce a decade later. It's almost as if women are fickle, mercurial and not generally grounded in a sense of reality.

I sincerely believe that many (most ?) women are better than their husbands at almost everything, and once they figure that out, some move on, and some stay for the sake of their kids in unhappy marriages.

[Anonymous]

Amen, Sis.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Unless the husband is rich.

Women do most of the unpaid and unnoticed domestic labor in the home. They use their body to create babies and then do most of the childcare.

If the husband isn’t rich, what does he bring to the table?

If the husband is rich, sands prenup, greatest deal ever for a woman!

SANDS

OMG OMG OMG

[Anonymous]

Marriage is modern day slavery.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Being a single mother who isn’t poor is the best.

I’m a not poor single mother and it’s no bed of roses.

i'm a not poor single mom and good god, it sucked. It sucked so bad.

Honestly, I hope I can just survive long enough to launch the last one the I will die content that I did my duty. That is all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My wife and I are super happy! 40 years old, four kids, 500k income, dual career. Life is great! But ok

I make 400K on my own (a woman). My former joint family income was 800K, equal earners but he treated me like shit all the time: cheated, never helped even to fill the dishwasher, I had to entertain his executive friends, we could only travel where he wanted and when he wanted.

I am much better on my own with 400K/year than with him on 800K!

OK. You chose to marry a loser and an a$$hole. Think about why that is.

The blame doesn’t lie with the institution of marriage or with other women who did much better than you with this particular major life choice.

Ha! I wish it was that easy: there is little way to know if husband would have zero patience with kids. He said HE wanted children and would share everything with me equally. But in the end it was nothing and you can’t just get divorced with kids and career at stake.

Yep, this happened to me too. How can a man not delight in his own children? It happens. I lived it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This garbage again.

If marriage is such a bad deal for women, why are women always the ones who push for it? Are women stupid?

Because they have bought into the lie. As they are conditioned to do from the cradle. What they THINK it means is very differnet from what it really means.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Look at the # of single mothers by choice vs. # of single fathers by choice and decide for yourself who needs children more.

This is crucial. Do men really, really need and want babies? It depends on the man. But IMHO most men are not really willing to do the work involved in babies.

Which is fine if that's your deal. But not fine if you are working outside the home, just as much as he is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Being a single mother who isn’t poor is the best.

Say more? Considering this for myself. I'd have less money but my job pays fine.

Don't do it. Motherhood is a PIA! And it goes on forever! Just use your money to go to the Bahamas.